I would really appreciate it if people actually read the OP and didn't immediately assume I'm lazily asking to be handed things for free, because that is very much not the case.

 

 

Something that I was always mildly bothered by, was the fact that when you create a toon from an instant level 60/70 token, you never get the chance or opportunity to get the class titles like Lord, Darth, Battlemaster, Master and so on. Especially when you have previously finished the class stories on different toons, it would be nice if you were granted those class titles on level 60/70 toons as well, because you already earned them in the past. Naturally, players who have never finished the class stories at least once, rightfully shouldn't get the class titles from an instant 60/70 token, as you have to earn them at least once for it to be fair.

 

But Onslaught offers a unique opportunity, as after the Corellia Flashpoint you are given the choice to rejoin your original faction and have all your old titles and positions restored. This, I'd wager, would be a perfect opportunity for instant level 60/70 characters to be given the class titles like Darth, Lord, Master etc. if the player has previously completed the class stories at least once. Because storywise it would make a lot of sense, since you're literally being made a Darth, Master, Lord etc again. It would help, in my opinion, making the level 60/70 toons feel more complete, as I personally miss having the class titles on those toons. On top of that, this way you still have to put in a bit of work into getting the titles, as you have to complete all the story content before you get to the point that you're given the choice to return to your original faction.

 

So what do people think, would this be a desirable thing? Do other people also wish they had the class titles on their instant level 60/70 toons? Or do people think that those type of toons shouldn't get the class titles, because they have to be earned by going through the story from start to end, even if a player already had finished the class stories at least once before? I'd love to know what people think and maybe this will inspire the devs to make this still a part of Onslaught in the near future!

Edited November 8, 2019 by Ylliarus

Naturally, I realise that there are more important things to work on in and around Onslaught, seeing as gearing and crafting really is messed up and is in need of dire attention. But since Onslaught is still fresh, adding the opportunity to gain the class titles on instant 60/70 toons or characters who skipped class story after choosing to rejoin your original faction after the Corellia expansion could still be added to the expansion in retrospect.

The original class stories are the best content in the game - if you want the titles from those stories, play them.

 

They could make them semi-legacy tied, as in if someone has the achievements for completing the base class at least once, they gain access to the base class titles on future characters of that class.

Edited November 7, 2019 by DawnAskham

The original class stories are the best content in the game - if you want the titles from those stories, play them.

 

They could make them semi-legacy tied, as in if someone has the achievements for completing the base class at least once, they gain access to the base class titles on future characters of that class.

 

That is what I am talking about Don't misunderstand me, as I say in the OP, I don't want instant 60/70 token characters to get access to the class titles if they haven't completed them at least once before. And as you say, such a system could easily check if you have the achievements for it and based on it, grant the titles at the end of Onslaught.

 

And I know the class stories are the best content in game, I have been playing them over and over again since 2012. Which is why, as you surely can imagine, it would be nice to still have those titles on instant 60/70 characters but without having to replay the entire class story for the upteenth time it's more a quality of life thing, because think about it: instant 60/70 characters have no way to earn those titles anyway. You can get nice titles by replaying KotFE and KotET, but you don't have the opportunity to replay the class stories on such a toon. That's why it would be nice to have an alternative way for instant 60/70 toons to still earn those class titles, especially if the player has already earned them at least once before.

 

And as said before, the plot of Onslaught, especially the ending, makes a lot of sense to be such an opportunity to earn the titles back, because when you rejoin, you are made a Darth, Master, Lord etc. again. Storywise it just makes a lot of sense, in my opinion.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Ylliarus

To reiterate, the possibility of earning the titles on instant level 60/70 toons by completing Onslaught, should only be available to players who have the achievements that you get when you complete the class stories. Instant 60/70 characters should have no access to the class titles, if they haven't completed them at least once. This idea would only serve as a sort of quality of life improvement, so that instant 60/70 toons can still get the opportunity to earn the class titles, as replaying the class story is completely unavailable to them and as such, there is no other way to still earn those titles. And I think it would be fair, that if you have completed the class stories in the past, that you can earn those titles on instant 60/70 characters. Because I can understand that, going through a class story for the upteenth time can be sometimes tedious, even though I consider the class stories to be the best story content in the game.

+1

Agree with Yil. Attach class titles to legacy.

+1

Agree with Yil. Attach class titles to legacy.

 

An option to "buy" the titles from the Legacy Perks screen with the condition that you have to have the achievement unlocked for finishing the class story that you want the titles for, is something I have raised in the past as well. But, as said, now with Onslaught there is a huge opportunity story wise to give instant level 60/70 toons or characters who skipped class story to still earn those titles.

 

But I agree, having the class titles be Legacy bound or at least, involve legacy in the sense that you have had to have completed the class stories at least once, would be a really great QoL improvement for instant level 60/70 toons.

Strongly disagree.

 

If you want the titles, work for them, regardless of character.

 

If you care about story. finish your class story before doing anything else.

 

Instant Level 60/70 Characters should only be used if you want to get an alt to endgame content (raids, MM FP) faster and dont care about story progression. Then you shoudn't need titles either.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Gelious

Like most topic of this nature, you will always have the ''Plz let me have this'' vs the ''NOO! BIG NO!'

 

I think a middle ground between the 2 sides, would be to find something that doesnt offend either side.

 

How about a Legacy Unlock but ONLY IF YOU DID IT on a previous toon ?

 

Like say : You played the JK and want the Title Battlemaster thing? But you wanna make an insta 70 and it doesnt give you the title ?

 

I agree that, you shouldn't get thing that easely, since it reward lazyness . I personally havent used those Token lol I keep making new Alt and do the whole thing , then get burned out..I stop....then come back and do more.

 

But I do understand that...it can be exhausting, and some just dont feel having to go trough the whole thing all over again .

 

So with that said , they could put some stuff in like say '' have a Legacy of x lvl ? then you can have the unlock, and the unlock would only work for that character you want the Title for, and only if you have played or have a Toon thats level 70 '' ?

 

I know it may sound ridiculous or steep...but if anyone has a better idea, plz let me know .

Strongly disagree.

 

If you want the titles, work for them, regardless of character.

 

If you care about story. finish your class story before doing anything else.

 

Instant Level 60/70 Characters should only be used if you want to get an alt to endgame content (raids, MM FP) faster and dont care about story progression. Then you shoudn't need titles either.

 

I disagree, your view on those type of toons is incorrectly narrow. There are a lot of RP'ers who use these instant 60/70 tokens to make alts for their characters in different circumstances, for example a Sith Lord who wields a single blade lightsaber (Sith Sorc) and a double-bladed one (Sith Assassin). They're meant to be the same character and thus RP'ers would want them to appear as such in the RP scene. Having a way to earn the class titles on instant level 60/70 toons would be a really neat QoL improvement for those type of players, who use alts in their RP for various reasons.

 

Like most topic of this nature, you will always have the ''Plz let me have this'' vs the ''NOO! BIG NO!'

 

I think a middle ground between the 2 sides, would be to find something that doesnt offend either side.

 

How about a Legacy Unlock but ONLY IF YOU DID IT on a previous toon ?

 

Like say : You played the JK and want the Title Battlemaster thing? But you wanna make an insta 70 and it doesnt give you the title ?

 

I agree that, you shouldn't get thing that easely, since it reward lazyness . I personally havent used those Token lol I keep making new Alt and do the whole thing , then get burned out..I stop....then come back and do more.

 

But I do understand that...it can be exhausting, and some just dont feel having to go trough the whole thing all over again .

 

So with that said , they could put some stuff in like say '' have a Legacy of x lvl ? then you can have the unlock, and the unlock would only work for that character you want the Title for, and only if you have played or have a Toon thats level 70 '' ?

 

I know it may sound ridiculous or steep...but if anyone has a better idea, plz let me know .

 

I have a strong feeling that people see the title and respond without reading the OP, because the legacy-based approach is exactly what I am referring to. I would really appreciate it if people actually read the OP and didn't immediately assume I'm lazily asking to be handed things for free, because that is very much not the case.

 

The thing is, there is literally no negative effect on anyone here. If you want to be able to unlock the class titles on instant level 60/70 toons, you have to have completed the class story at least once, so this forces you to go do the class stories anyway. No one is being given something for free, because in this approach, players who haven't completed the class story for the title they want, won't be able to obtain it any easy way. No one is being affected negatively in this situation, it only creates a QoL improvement for veteran/seasoned players who have earned the class titles at least once and probably many times in the past already.

So what are people's thoughts on this, would this be an undesirable element in the game or a welcome QoL improvemen? It would only be fair I think if the instant level 60/70 toons were given some way to earn those titles still. And this would be a nice alternative, especially with the Legacy achievement check system, to give characters made from an instant 60/70 token or who skipped the story to still get access to the class titles, provided they have completed the class story at least once before, naturally. Edited November 11, 2019 by Ylliarus

A while back, I had asked Charles Boyd about this over Twitter and he had given an interesting response, something I think that would interest quite a few players. I'll post a link to the tweets, but for making it easier to discuss in this thread, I'll also copy and paste the tweets here into quotes.

 

Ylliarus: @Charles_Boyd Will we ever see the option to unlock class titles like Master or Darth through Legacy for token 60/65 chars or toons that skipped class story? Ofc, the unlock should have the prerequisite to have completed the title's class story on a different toon before #SWTOR

 

Charles Boyd: It's not on the schedule currently, but seems like a reasonable request for the future. I'd love to expand our token/boost/skipping system overall, make it more granular/player-controlled, but that's likely a ways off as it's a huge undertaking.

 

And here is the link to the tweets themselves.

 

It would be interesting to see the token/boost/skipping system more expanded and player-controlled. It makes me think of the system that Mass Effect 3 has with that comic where you get to make all the player decisions or in Dragon Age Inquisition with the Tapestry. I frankly would love such a system, where you could choose for example whether your Inquisitor ended up with the Nox, Occlus or Imperius title, or whether your Warrior romanced Vette or Jaesa. It would make the tokens/boost a lot more useful and make the characters created with them seem less generic.

I am 100% with Yil on this one.

 

And I think the Character Legacy Perks is an elegant solution.

 

EVEN if it can't be grandfathered, have it so that it keeps track on the account which titles you earn in the game on any character. And then for class character perks, if someone has unlocked it at least once the regular way, then the title gets unlocked for legacy, or if you will, purchasable for a nominal amount of no more than 25k credits.

 

Easily a very nice touch for players who did the quests to earn those titles.

 

If the developers want to go a level deeper - you often get one title or another depending on your actions at critical junctures. Make those titles free, and let players know that by selecting certain titles, the game will think you have made those particular decisions. However, if at a point later in the game the story then acts based on those decisions you made, those titles that would have affected it get locked out, no longer available with expectation of the title of the story choice the game recognized.

 

It might make a good way too, to allow players to remember what choices they made in the past, especially for those of us who are altaholics.

I am 100% with Yil on this one.

 

And I think the Character Legacy Perks is an elegant solution.

 

EVEN if it can't be grandfathered, have it so that it keeps track on the account which titles you earn in the game on any character. And then for class character perks, if someone has unlocked it at least once the regular way, then the title gets unlocked for legacy, or if you will, purchasable for a nominal amount of no more than 25k credits.

 

Easily a very nice touch for players who did the quests to earn those titles.

 

If the developers want to go a level deeper - you often get one title or another depending on your actions at critical junctures. Make those titles free, and let players know that by selecting certain titles, the game will think you have made those particular decisions. However, if at a point later in the game the story then acts based on those decisions you made, those titles that would have affected it get locked out, no longer available with expectation of the title of the story choice the game recognized.

 

It might make a good way too, to allow players to remember what choices they made in the past, especially for those of us who are altaholics.

 

Oh, that is a very elegant system indeed! It's difficult to sometimes remember all the choices you have made and having a system like the one you proposed would be a very useful QoL improvement, I'd say.

 

The main thing with the class titles right now, is that Onslaught is the perfect opportunity to allow token 60/70 characters to earn the class titles, by choosing to rejoin their original faction at the end of the expanion's story. Because at that point, we're getting our position and titles back plotwise as well. For those who already have the titles it wouldn't add anything new, but toons that have skipped the class stories or used the 60/70 token, could earn the class titles at this point in the story. Naturally, under the condition that they have the legacy achievements for having completed the class stories. Because no player should get access to the class titles without having earned them at least once before.

A while back, I had asked Charles Boyd about this over Twitter and he had given an interesting response, something I think that would interest quite a few players.

That was interesting, thanks.

It would be interesting to see the token/boost/skipping system more expanded and player-controlled. It makes me think of the system that Mass Effect 3 has with that comic where you get to make all the player decisions or in Dragon Age Inquisition with the Tapestry. I frankly would love such a system, where you could choose for example whether your Inquisitor ended up with the Nox, Occlus or Imperius title, or whether your Warrior romanced Vette or Jaesa. It would make the tokens/boost a lot more useful and make the characters created with them seem less generic.

The obvious immediate (and, on the scale of such things, *cheap*(1)) improvement would be to offer a *choice* between all-dark and all-light, based on what the player wants rather than the character's faction, probably something like this:

* A new character created with a Outlander / Commander / whatever the next version is token, aka insta60 / insta70, would choose as part of the character creation process for the content defaulted-out by the instant creation.(2)

* An existing character would use *either* the character's light/dark toggle state *or* an explicit choice at the moment that the character skips forward.

* If a character skips more than once, then each skip could be on a different side, but would only affect new decisions that weren't already defaulted-out.

 

(1) Cheap compared to the alternatives, that is. Anything that offers a more complex / detailed choice will be more expensive, and potentially troublesome, depending on exactly how detailed people would expect it to be.

 

(2) Perhaps an interesting thing to add to character creation anyway, to set the initial colour of the dark/light toggle.

That was interesting, thanks.

 

The obvious immediate (and, on the scale of such things, *cheap*(1)) improvement would be to offer a *choice* between all-dark and all-light, based on what the player wants rather than the character's faction, probably something like this:

* A new character created with a Outlander / Commander / whatever the next version is token, aka insta60 / insta70, would choose as part of the character creation process for the content defaulted-out by the instant creation.(2)

* An existing character would use *either* the character's light/dark toggle state *or* an explicit choice at the moment that the character skips forward.

* If a character skips more than once, then each skip could be on a different side, but would only affect new decisions that weren't already defaulted-out.

 

(1) Cheap compared to the alternatives, that is. Anything that offers a more complex / detailed choice will be more expensive, and potentially troublesome, depending on exactly how detailed people would expect it to be.

 

(2) Perhaps an interesting thing to add to character creation anyway, to set the initial colour of the dark/light toggle.

 

What you describe sounds very interesting and would work well. I think it could be even easier however and that way, perhaps also cheaper:

 

When skipping the story to KotFE or KotET for example or using the instant 60/70 token, you could get a little screen which gives you three options to choose from, namely:

 

1. Light Side

 

2. Neutral

 

3. Dark Side.

 

Then, depending on your choice, the game will go and use default choices for your chosen alignment, so if you choose LS, it will make mostly or solely Light Side choices, if DS vice versa. If you choose neutral, it will try to choose neutral options as often as it can but try to balance out the DS and LS options evenly otherwise. That way you can include all player alignments that can currently be adopted but give some choice as to what those default choices will be. It's not a perfect system, but it adds more player-control to the skipping/instant 60/70 token characters. Maybe even an additional toggle could be added that allows you to pick which companion from the vanilla game you romanced or whether you romanced none. So if you're a male Sith Inquisitor, you'd get the options "Ashara" and "None", when you're a male Sith Warrior you'd get "Vette", "Jaesa" or "None". That way you could further expand the player control in an easy and hopefully cheap way.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Ylliarus

Ylliarus, when you read the responses of people like "NO! You must earn them! EARN THEM!!" etc, it's a tale as old as time. You get this in any and every MMO, I guarantee it.

 

What is really happening is, these are the people that want to gatekeep things and cannot stand the thought of someone getting enjoyment out of something if they do not measure up by some arbitrary standard. They will complain and rail against any and all ideas to give other players things that do not even personally affect their gameplay. "No you can't have titles. Never mind that this doesn't take anything away from my account, I have determined you cannot have them unless you jump through the hoops I deem important!"

 

Logic, reason... these concepts mean nothing to this type of player. It doesn't matter that what you propose would be good for the game, keep other players happy, without being detrimental to anyone else. It doesn't matter that forcing everyone to redo the entire damn story for each new character to just get a title simply annoys players, makes them bored, and is just a meaningless exercise in grinding. They want you to do it that way *just cuz*.

 

All in all, it's best to ignore these types of player and move on. Your idea is a really good one. Streamlining cosmetic things (and that's what titles are) in an MMO, especially in an older MMO, is always a very good thing. There is no Achievement involved. What achievement could there be in getting a title everyone already has on their mains, and is simply a matter of completing a story that has been completed by tons of players over many many years over. The answer is: there is no achievement. It's just endless grind.

Ylliarus, when you read the responses of people like "NO! You must earn them! EARN THEM!!" etc, it's a tale as old as time. You get this in any and every MMO, I guarantee it.

 

What is really happening is, these are the people that want to gatekeep things and cannot stand the thought of someone getting enjoyment out of something if they do not measure up by some arbitrary standard. They will complain and rail against any and all ideas to give other players things that do not even personally affect their gameplay. "No you can't have titles. Never mind that this doesn't take anything away from my account, I have determined you cannot have them unless you jump through the hoops I deem important!"

 

Logic, reason... these concepts mean nothing to this type of player. It doesn't matter that what you propose would be good for the game, keep other players happy, without being detrimental to anyone else. It doesn't matter that forcing everyone to redo the entire damn story for each new character to just get a title simply annoys players, makes them bored, and is just a meaningless exercise in grinding. They want you to do it that way *just cuz*.

 

All in all, it's best to ignore these types of player and move on. Your idea is a really good one. Streamlining cosmetic things (and that's what titles are) in an MMO, especially in an older MMO, is always a very good thing. There is no Achievement involved. What achievement could there be in getting a title everyone already has on their mains, and is simply a matter of completing a story that has been completed by tons of players over many many years over. The answer is: there is no achievement. It's just endless grind.

 

You raise good points. I can get the criticism that those types of players express, because they worked for those class titles and it would feel unfair if someone just got them by throwing money or cartel coins at their screen (figuratively). Especially if that player never bothered to try out any of the class stories before, even I would find that unfair and would be against it.

 

However, this idea specifically targets the veteran players, who have played the class stories many times over. The Achievement that we talk about, is not for the class titles, but for the class stories. When you complete the Sith Inquisitor storyline for example, you get an achievement for it in your Legacy that you finished chapter 3 of that class story. The idea here, is to make that achievement a prerequisite for unlocking the class titles for the Sith Inquisitor on a toon that skipped the class story and went straight to KotFE for example. Such a measure would be fair, because it ensures that you have to complete the class story at least once, if you want to unlock specific class titles. It also encourages players to try the class stories out at least once, as they are, without a doubt, the best story content ingame.

 

Giving out the titles completely for free without having to have had worked for them at least once, is something I am against as well. However, with the Achievement prerequisite, the system would be fair. Because if someone unlocks the class titles that way on an instant level 60/70 toon, then no one other than that player on that character will be affected. So here I will agree with you, that just denying this feature to veteran players because "I don't like that" isn't a valid argument, in my opinion. If it affected other players in a negative way or took away something from them, sure, I'd understand that. But this literally takes away nothing from anyone, especially if the prerequisite of the class story Achievement is implemented.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Ylliarus

This is my point exactly, sorry for not elaborating that part. Once a player has done a class story one time, I feel strongly that they, *the player*, have earned all there is to earn regarding "putting in your time to do the story". That is to say, if you've done a story on a character one time, you have earned the right to the title it grants. These types of things should be on a per account basis, especially since the game has the Legacy system which is completely in line with this train of thought.

 

The way it is now isn't because it's the best way, or necessarily because the developers have a motive to keep it this way. It is simply this way because that's how it was originaly designed (i.e. it was to give people content to play with in the early days of the MMO, basically something in the game to do) and it has not been really looked at since.

 

Anything cosmetic in this game, once earned at least one time, should end up in the Legacy sharing system. Just like cartel items, and various other things.

This is my point exactly, sorry for not elaborating that part. Once a player has done a class story one time, I feel strongly that they, *the player*, have earned all there is to earn regarding "putting in your time to do the story". That is to say, if you've done a story on a character one time, you have earned the right to the title it grants. These types of things should be on a per account basis, especially since the game has the Legacy system which is completely in line with this train of thought.

 

The way it is now isn't because it's the best way, or necessarily because the developers have a motive to keep it this way. It is simply this way because that's how it was originaly designed (i.e. it was to give people content to play with in the early days of the MMO, basically something in the game to do) and it has not been really looked at since.

 

Anything cosmetic in this game, once earned at least one time, should end up in the Legacy sharing system. Just like cartel items, and various other things.

 

Yes, I highly agree with everything you have said here. Especially the part about when you have earned something once, you should have access to it on all of your account. It's why it would be ideal if you could share your class titles, once you earned them, with other toons of the came class. For example, if you finished the class story on a Sith Sorcerer initially and then make an instant 60/70 token Sith Assassin, there should be no reason why that Sith Assassin shouldn't have access to the same class titles that you earned on the Sith Sorcerer.

 

And indeed, it is simply a feature that hasn't been looked at since launch and that's why it was never changed. It's why I am trying to keep this subject moving, as I genuinely believe it would be a very appreciated and welcomed QoL improvement for many veteran players of the game.

That's exactly how I see it. The player (aka legacy) has earned the title(s), not just the singular toon.

That's exactly how I see it. The player (aka legacy) has earned the title(s), not just the singular toon.

 

Especially considering how vital parts of the game like gear have become Bound to Legacy instead of the individual toon. Because a player is not only their singular toon, but their entire account (to sound philosophical). But yes, it's the player that earned the titles, not the singular toon and thus all of the account on that server should have access to the titles.

The thing is, there's an excellent opportunity to still add this feature in retroactively. As I have stated before, the ending of the Onslaught expansion is the point in the story where you get the choice to actually return to your faction and have all of your titles and former positions restored. If you choose to rejoin the Empire or the Republic, those former titles and positions are bestowed upon you once again. This would be the perfect opportunity for instant level 60/70 token characters or toons who skipped their class story to be granted their class titles, under the strict condition of course they have the necessary achievements in their Legacy for having completed that class story on a previous toon. This way, you still have to work to get the titles a bit, as you need to at least complete all of Onslaught (or KotFE and KotET if you only skip to KotFE). Onslaught is also still "fresh" enough to have this be added as an afterthought. Edited November 25, 2019 by Ylliarus