Tyber Zann wins hands down no contest.

Yes GO-TO can hack droids but he needs to be there to do it, either 'in person' or in the system if he has his bost from the Yatch I think.

Also while the HK droids are good they are not invincible, ion weapons and blaster put them down. Also Tyber has Night Sisters, you know the evil force users who RIDE RACORS, holy #### thats awesome, so I don't think the HK's will do that much, it has been establish that force user>all others (in the SE vs GE Kaggath).

If GO-TO can take over droids, Tyber can bribe. "Ever one has a price", he can convince GO-TO's people to turn on him, yes he can be arrogant but he is not stupid, if can bribe someone he will.

Tyber is also a manipulator of people, he knows how they will react, I don't think GO-TO 'gets' organics to be honest.

Also Tyber gets what he is after through his own skill where as GO-TO only gets a jedi, when one WANTS to be captured and then gets him/her to do his work for him, which takes place where the jedi was headed in the first place.

but it don't matter cause GO-TO was in KOTOR2 and there is better then every one who was not in that mediocre game.

G0-T0 Ally Petition List!

 

-G0-T0 Droids/"400100500260026" (I'm sure G0-T0 knows where they are, and they would undoubtably help him.)

-Twin Suns (Still pulling for these two)

-Loppak Slusk (Exchange Bose)

-Davik Kung (Exchange Boss)

-Calo Nord (Works for Davik Kung)

-Visquis (Actually works for G0-T0)

 

I know most and probably all of these will be rejected, but hey, gotta try! Actually, allowing the Exchange Bosses or the other G0-T0s would only aid the debate by giving Zann something to conquer.

As for the overall debate, I believe Zann will put all his resources into finding the Visionary and destroying it. It won't take long for Zann to realise that the Visionary is in orbit above Nar Shardaa, all G0-T0's enemies knew. And there are three ways Zann can find it and take it out.

1. A fullscale invasion of Nar Shardaa, this may seem a little farfetched but consider that Zann had an entire army at his disposal and had invaded planets before during the Galactic Civil War. Nor in the Kaggath arena does he have to concern himself with repercussions once his opponent is defeated. So he invades and takes over Nar Shardaa and quickly uses the intel of the planet to find G0-T0 and kill him. Or at least deal heavy damage to his power base.

2. He works with G0-T0's enemies, of which there were many (they all swarm his ship when it recloaks). With their influence on Nar Shardaa and Zann's resources they can track down the Visionary.

3. He captures/tortures or bribes G0-T0's mercenaries or underlings and extracts the location of the Visionary from them. Presumably they would know it's location, especially the mercenaries as the likes of Hanharr, the Zhug Brothers and the Gand nest had been on the ship and displayed an ability to get to it (they ambush you when you try to leave in KOTOR 2 despite not being on the ship beforehand.)

All these options combined would be the best plan of attack, and once Zann finds the Visionary he surrounds it with his fleet and disables it with ion cannons (which prevents it from decloaking, escaping or G0-T0 making a transfer) And then blows the ship to pieces and G0-T0 with it.

This IMO is how I see Zann winning but G0-T0 could win just as easily, simply by capturing those who come to Nar Shardaa and turning them against Zann. Then he uses them to find Zann's base and sends mercenaries and HK assassins to kill him. Which is the more likely outcome?

Oh and Ausstig, KOTOR 2 is not a mediocre game. It's got Kreia in it and is therefore awesome, plus its just awesome anyway.

Tyber Zann wins hands down no contest.

 

Yes GO-TO can hack droids but he needs to be there to do it, either 'in person' or in the system if he has his bost from the Yatch I think.

 

Also while the HK droids are good they are not invincible, ion weapons and blaster put them down. Also Tyber has Night Sisters, you know the evil force users who RIDE RACORS, holy #### thats awesome, so I don't think the HK's will do that much, it has been establish that force user>all others (in the SE vs GE Kaggath).

 

If GO-TO can take over droids, Tyber can bribe. "Ever one has a price", he can convince GO-TO's people to turn on him, yes he can be arrogant but he is not stupid, if can bribe someone he will.

 

Tyber is also a manipulator of people, he knows how they will react, I don't think GO-TO 'gets' organics to be honest.

 

Also Tyber gets what he is after through his own skill where as GO-TO only gets a jedi, when one WANTS to be captured and then gets him/her to do his work for him, which takes place where the jedi was headed in the first place.

 

but it don't matter cause GO-TO was in KOTOR2 and there is better then every one who was not in that mediocre game.

Even if G0-T0 has to be in person to hack droids (which doesn't make any sense considering with our technology we can already hack into things across the world) he will still be able to move about and corrupt them in his stealthed ship and stealthier body.

The HK units are assassins. If they do their job right, their targets won't even be able to aim a blaster at them. In KOTOR 2 they were trying to bring the Exile in alive. Now they're just killing stuff. Actuall, it's already been stated that HKs would be the perfect counter for night sisters. They were made to assassinate Jedi and Sith, just ask HK-47. Just snipe the witch on top and the rancor will stampede. Also, don't overestimate their force abilities, they were really quite small.

Zann bribing people has a couple problems. 1. You can't bribe the Exchange people. It's like the Mafia, you're in for life and if you defect you're killed. 2. GO-TO can place a bounty the size of Coruscant on Zanns head to make sure all the bounty hunters stay onto him. And 3. Good luck bribing HK or any of GO-TOs other droids.

GO-TO is an Exchange Boss. Don't forget that he just runs the place, but he has servants all over. Visquis is now allowed, so if you're looking for someone to work with people, there you go.

GO-TO was much more resourceful than you think. If yoi played KOTOR 2, you'll remember like 5 different attempts on the Exiles life. GO-TO was trying to bring her in alive, but now, he will have nothing stopping him from just killing everything.

Even if G0-T0 has to be in person to hack droids (which doesn't make any sense considering with our technology we can already hack into things across the world) he will still be able to move about and corrupt them in his stealthed ship and stealthier body.

 

The HK units are assassins. If they do their job right, their targets won't even be able to aim a blaster at them. In KOTOR 2 they were trying to bring the Exile in alive. Now they're just killing stuff. Actuall, it's already been stated that HKs would be the perfect counter for night sisters. They were made to assassinate Jedi and Sith, just ask HK-47. Just snipe the witch on top and the rancor will stampede. Also, don't overestimate their force abilities, they were really quite small.

 

Zann bribing people has a couple problems. 1. You can't bribe the Exchange people. It's like the Mafia, you're in for life and if you defect you're killed. 2. GO-TO can place a bounty the size of Coruscant on Zanns head to make sure all the bounty hunters stay onto him. And 3. Good luck bribing HK or any of GO-TOs other droids.

 

GO-TO is an Exchange Boss. Don't forget that he just runs the place, but he has servants all over. Visquis is now allowed, so if you're looking for someone to work with people, there you go.

 

GO-TO was much more resourceful than you think. If yoi played KOTOR 2, you'll remember like 5 different attempts on the Exiles life. GO-TO was trying to bring her in alive, but now, he will have nothing stopping him from just killing everything.

You think it's impossible to bribe a exchange person? Untrue. Just like the Mafia you mentioned, everyone (in that kind of business) has a price. This does not exclude the exchange. Did Mafia members ever betray Capone? You bet.

No you cannot have other G0-T0s! lol. No Davik Kang, he's an Exchange boss in his own right, and no Calo Nord. Loppa Slusk is not allowed either as she operated on Telos under a different boss. Visquis is permitted however seeing as they made up the lower levels of G0-T0's crime syndicate. And no Twin Suns!

 

As for the overall debate, I believe Zann will put all his resources into finding the Visionary and destroying it. It won't take long for Zann to realise that the Visionary is in orbit above Nar Shardaa, all G0-T0's enemies knew. And there are three ways Zann can find it and take it out.

 

1. A fullscale invasion of Nar Shardaa, this may seem a little farfetched but consider that Zann had an entire army at his disposal and had invaded planets before during the Galactic Civil War. Nor in the Kaggath arena does he have to concern himself with repercussions once his opponent is defeated. So he invades and takes over Nar Shardaa and quickly uses the intel of the planet to find G0-T0 and kill him. Or at least deal heavy damage to his power base.

 

2. He works with G0-T0's enemies, of which there were many (they all swarm his ship when it recloaks). With their influence on Nar Shardaa and Zann's resources they can track down the Visionary.

 

3. He captures/tortures or bribes G0-T0's mercenaries or underlings and extracts the location of the Visionary from them. Presumably they would know it's location, especially the mercenaries as the likes of Hanharr, the Zhug Brothers and the Gand nest had been on the ship and displayed an ability to get to it (they ambush you when you try to leave in KOTOR 2 despite not being on the ship beforehand.)

 

All these options combined would be the best plan of attack, and once Zann finds the Visionary he surrounds it with his fleet and disables it with ion cannons (which prevents it from decloaking, escaping or G0-T0 making a transfer) And then blows the ship to pieces and G0-T0 with it.

 

This IMO is how I see Zann winning but G0-T0 could win just as easily, simply by capturing those who come to Nar Shardaa and turning them against Zann. Then he uses them to find Zann's base and sends mercenaries and HK assassins to kill him. Which is the more likely outcome?

 

Oh and Ausstig, KOTOR 2 is not a mediocre game. It's got Kreia in it and is therefore awesome, plus its just awesome anyway.

Well hey, at least GO-TO got Visquis. Also, Loppak Slusk (think squid) was the Exchange boss for Telos, not that creepy green lady.

Finding the Visionary is going to be harder than you think. Also refer to my scenario, where if G0-T0 can capture Urai and hold him hostage on the Visionary like he did the Exile, Zann won't be able to destroy it and his only friend.

1. I actually laughed when I saw this. Invade Nar Shaddaa? Have you seen Nar Shaddaa? It's gonna be kinda hard to land tanks or rancors on those streets. Not to mention: You know how many criminal organizations operate on Nar Shaddaa? Invading it would get ALL of them mad at you. You try to blockade the planet, every smuggler in the galaxy hates you. You try to take over the ground, countless gangs and Cartels and other underworld organization will fight you back. Invading Nar Shaddaa will only doom Zann, as his enemies will multiply by... I don't know how much.

2. See point 1. If he invades, he won't have any allies. The other organizations might not be allied with Zann, but they won't work with him. Also, GO-TO will take out a lot of his enemies from the start to avoid this. But who are "his enemies"? To me that sounds like other large organizations like the Hutt Cartel. Also, the enemy you interact with in KOTOR 2, the Hutt, doesn't have a clue as to where GO-TO is. They're stumped, and won't be of any help.

3. The Zhug Brothers, the Gand, and Hanharr do not hang out on GO-TOs yacht. They come to a meeting when he calls them. They don't come and go. Don't make GO-TO sound stupid, that ship obviously moves around. And I assure you that once he's in a full scale war, no one will be visiting his ship anytime soon, and he will move about frequently. The Consortium may be able to find the comm frequency GO-TO uses to contact bounty hunter people, but that's probably a separate channel from what he uses to run the Exchange. Also, GO-TO can simply move his ship to another planet in the system. There are four and if "everybody knows" GO-TO is above Nar Shaddaa, Zann won't look for him over Nal Hutta or one of the other planets.

All of those options combined will get Zann:

- countless new enemies as everyone on Nar Shaddaa or operating on Nar Shaddaa hates him

- a couple of useless new allies which in turn makes their enemies his enemies

- a wild goose chase over Nar Shaddaa when GO-TO could just be sitting over another planet

You think it's impossible to bribe a exchange person? Untrue. Just like the Mafia you mentioned, everyone (in that kind of business) has a price. This does not exclude the exchange. Did Mafia members ever betray Capone? You bet.

My point was that people are loyal to him. Also, how much credits does Zann have, like cannonly? The Exchange was the most powerful criminal organization of its time, rivaling the Hutt Cartel. I'm almost sure they have more credits than Zann.

Well hey, at least GO-TO got Visquis. Also, Loppak Slusk (think squid) was the Exchange boss for Telos, not that creepy green lady.

 

Finding the Visionary is going to be harder than you think. Also refer to my scenario, where if G0-T0 can capture Urai and hold him hostage on the Visionary like he did the Exile, Zann won't be able to destroy it and his only friend.

 

1. I actually laughed when I saw this. Invade Nar Shaddaa? Have you seen Nar Shaddaa? It's gonna be kinda hard to land tanks or rancors on those streets. Not to mention: You know how many criminal organizations operate on Nar Shaddaa? Invading it would get ALL of them mad at you. You try to blockade the planet, every smuggler in the galaxy hates you. You try to take over the ground, countless gangs and Cartels and other underworld organization will fight you back. Invading Nar Shaddaa will only doom Zann, as his enemies will multiply by... I don't know how much.

 

2. See point 1. If he invades, he won't have any allies. The other organizations might not be allied with Zann, but they won't work with him. Also, GO-TO will take out a lot of his enemies from the start to avoid this. But who are "his enemies"? To me that sounds like other large organizations like the Hutt Cartel. Also, the enemy you interact with in KOTOR 2, the Hutt, doesn't have a clue as to where GO-TO is. They're stumped, and won't be of any help.

 

3. The Zhug Brothers, the Gand, and Hanharr do not hang out on GO-TOs yacht. They come to a meeting when he calls them. They don't come and go. Don't make GO-TO sound stupid, that ship obviously moves around. And I assure you that once he's in a full scale war, no one will be visiting his ship anytime soon, and he will move about frequently. The Consortium may be able to find the comm frequency GO-TO uses to contact bounty hunter people, but that's probably a separate channel from what he uses to run the Exchange. Also, GO-TO can simply move his ship to another planet in the system. There are four and if "everybody knows" GO-TO is above Nar Shaddaa, Zann won't look for him over Nal Hutta or one of the other planets.

 

All of those options combined will get Zann:

- countless new enemies as everyone on Nar Shaddaa or operating on Nar Shaddaa hates him

- a couple of useless new allies which in turn makes their enemies his enemies

- a wild goose chase over Nar Shaddaa when GO-TO could just be sitting over another planet

Can't Zann just bomb the planet? That wouldn't kill G0-T0, but it would cripple his powerbase and from there, Zann ought to be able to acheive victory.

Can't Zann just bomb the planet? That wouldn't kill G0-T0, but it would cripple his powerbase and from there, Zann ought to be able to acheive victory.

That would be bombing the Smugglers Moon. It would be destroying one of the most profitable and infamous hubs of the underworld. GO-TO may loose some of his power base, but he gains MUCH more than he loses. AKA the entire underworld, every smuggler, countless gangs, organizations such as the Exchange than span many planets.

You mess with Nar Shaddaa, you get pounded. As stated before, look at how many enemies G0-T0 had, just for pirating above Nar Shaddaa. Now imagine how many people would be after Zann if he blew it to ashes.

Well hey, at least GO-TO got Visquis. Also, Loppak Slusk (think squid) was the Exchange boss for Telos, not that creepy green lady.

 

Finding the Visionary is going to be harder than you think. Also refer to my scenario, where if G0-T0 can capture Urai and hold him hostage on the Visionary like he did the Exile, Zann won't be able to destroy it and his only friend.

 

1. I actually laughed when I saw this. Invade Nar Shaddaa? Have you seen Nar Shaddaa? It's gonna be kinda hard to land tanks or rancors on those streets. Not to mention: You know how many criminal organizations operate on Nar Shaddaa? Invading it would get ALL of them mad at you. You try to blockade the planet, every smuggler in the galaxy hates you. You try to take over the ground, countless gangs and Cartels and other underworld organization will fight you back. Invading Nar Shaddaa will only doom Zann, as his enemies will multiply by... I don't know how much.

 

2. See point 1. If he invades, he won't have any allies. The other organizations might not be allied with Zann, but they won't work with him. Also, GO-TO will take out a lot of his enemies from the start to avoid this. But who are "his enemies"? To me that sounds like other large organizations like the Hutt Cartel. Also, the enemy you interact with in KOTOR 2, the Hutt, doesn't have a clue as to where GO-TO is. They're stumped, and won't be of any help.

 

3. The Zhug Brothers, the Gand, and Hanharr do not hang out on GO-TOs yacht. They come to a meeting when he calls them. They don't come and go. Don't make GO-TO sound stupid, that ship obviously moves around. And I assure you that once he's in a full scale war, no one will be visiting his ship anytime soon, and he will move about frequently. The Consortium may be able to find the comm frequency GO-TO uses to contact bounty hunter people, but that's probably a separate channel from what he uses to run the Exchange. Also, GO-TO can simply move his ship to another planet in the system. There are four and if "everybody knows" GO-TO is above Nar Shaddaa, Zann won't look for him over Nal Hutta or one of the other planets.

 

All of those options combined will get Zann:

- countless new enemies as everyone on Nar Shaddaa or operating on Nar Shaddaa hates him

- a couple of useless new allies which in turn makes their enemies his enemies

- a wild goose chase over Nar Shaddaa when GO-TO could just be sitting over another planet

However, I'm still banking on a full scale invasion, sort of. No he cannot land rancors and tanks etc. but he has a lot of ground forces which could be deployed. Now you've pretty much proven that Zann can't conquer Nar Shaddaa, he could however start a personal war with the Exchange. Now the people of Nar Shaddaa don't like the Exchange, they exploit them in every way possible, and G0-T0 has a lot of enemies with the Hutt Cartel etc so when an opportunity to drive the Exchange from Nar Shaddaa presents itself, they are either gonna sit back and watch or join the party.

IMO Zann would win a war with the exchange, he has a great number of ground forces and billions upon billions of credits (stolen from the Emperor's personal vaults) to bribe Exchange members over to his side once they see their crime syndicate losing. This I think would be the best course of action for Zann, he knows G0-T0 has a lot of influence in Nar Shaddaa, and sending a few defilers and Fen to hunt down the Visionary is only going to get them captured or killed. Anyway, a war with the Exchange, a war Zann would win, would leave G0-T0s power base heavily damaged and open to attack.

But how does Zann find the Visionary? Well you've already debunked my original arguments but here's another. Behold the Crystal gravfield trap! The ultimate weapon in cloaked ship detection! Yes it is 'rare and expensive' but Tyber Zann has unlimited access to the black market technology so I'm sure he could acquire one. So while G0-T0 is busy fighting the Zann Consortium from the safety of his yacht, Zann acquires one of these detectors and drops a fleet over Nar Shaddaa which quickly locates G0-T0's ship and destroys it before he can react.

EDIT: And no MasterMe, I'm afraid you cannot bomb Nar Shaddaa, see The Battle of Nar Shaddaa - didn't end well for the Imperial invaders...

Can't Zann just bomb the planet? That wouldn't kill G0-T0, but it would cripple his powerbase and from there, Zann ought to be able to acheive victory.

I'm actually really liking this argument.

Zann bombards Nar Shaddaa.

G0-T0 gets away with

a. His ship (and droids)

b. the Exchange

c. HK Units

Then the entire underworld swoops in and destroys Zann's fleet, and G0-T0 just sits back and watches the fire works.

I'm actually really liking this argument.

 

Zann bombards Nar Shaddaa.

G0-T0 gets away with

a. His ship (and droids)

b. the Exchange

c. HK Units

 

Then the entire underworld swoops in and destroys Zann's fleet, and G0-T0 just sits back and watches the fire works.

You make a good point. If Zann simply bombs the planet and then sits around and burns time, he loses. I agree with you there. Bu how about this scenario:

1. Zann acquires the stealth-detector that Beni mentioned

2. Zann finds G0-T0 and blasts him to pieces.

OR

3. Zann temporarily surrounds Nar Shaddaa and transmits the following messege to the surface:

"The first person to tell me how to locate G0-T0's ship get's a billion credits."

If G0-T0 loses the advantage of his stealh-ship, he loses.

Ouch, you got me. You got me good.

 

However, I'm still banking on a full scale invasion, sort of. No he cannot land rancors and tanks etc. but he has a lot of ground forces which could be deployed. Now you've pretty much proven that Zann can't conquer Nar Shaddaa, he could however start a personal war with the Exchange. Now the people of Nar Shaddaa don't like the Exchange, they exploit them in every way possible, and G0-T0 has a lot of enemies with the Hutt Cartel etc so when an opportunity to drive the Exchange from Nar Shaddaa presents itself, they are either gonna sit back and watch or join the party.

 

IMO Zann would win a war with the exchange, he has a great number of ground forces and billions upon billions of credits (stolen from the Emperor's personal vaults) to bribe Exchange members over to his side once they see their crime syndicate losing. This I think would be the best course of action for Zann, he knows G0-T0 has a lot of influence in Nar Shaddaa, and sending a few defilers and Fen to hunt down the Visionary is only going to get them captured or killed. Anyway, a war with the Exchange, a war Zann would win, would leave G0-T0s power base heavily damaged and open to attack.

 

But how does Zann find the Visionary? Well you've already debunked my original arguments but here's another. Behold the Crystal gravfield trap! The ultimate weapon in cloaked ship detection! Yes it is 'rare and expensive' but Tyber Zann has unlimited access to the black market technology so I'm sure he could acquire one. So while G0-T0 is busy fighting the Zann Consortium from the safety of his yacht, Zann acquires one of these detectors and drops a fleet over Nar Shaddaa which quickly locates G0-T0's ship and destroys it before he can react.

 

EDIT: And no MasterMe, I'm afraid you cannot bomb Nar Shaddaa, see The Battle of Nar Shaddaa - didn't end well for the Imperial invaders...

Well first, the "people" of Nar Shaddaa can't do squat. The people that matter (aka smugglers/bounty hunters) are just as happy to work for the Exchange as anyone else. Also, does the Hutt Cartel even exist? If so, the minute Zann starts landing troops on Nar Shaddaa, they'll be his enemies as well. For sure if he tries to bring his fleet into their space.

I'm going to point again to the fact that the Exchange is operating on the Hutt Cartels doorstep. G0-T0 operates right under his greatest rival's nose. If that's not a a testament to his ability to do battle in the shadows, I don't know what is. Zann's ground troops will be met with heavy resistance from the natives where ever they walk, as they're invading their territory. Zann has no expirience with underworld fighting. He didn't take on Xizor. He took on the Empire and Rebellion, who didn't know how to use the black market and underworld. This is a much different fight with an organization who specializes in surviving in the underworld. I give the battle to the Exchange.

If one of those devices exists, G0-T0 will know about it just as soon, if not sooner than, Zann. He will either buy it or know when Zann buys it. Also, "before he has time to react" doesn't make sense, he's a droid. Also, he can hide in the opposite side of the planet than Zanns forces. Or he can just hide on a different planet in the system. You also assume GO-TO is just floating in space. If above Nar Shaddaa, he's surrounded by other ships, even if he is decloaked, finding and gunning him down in the thousands of ships in the air lanes will give him enough time to hyperspace away.

You make a good point. If Zann simply bombs the planet and then sits around and burns time, he loses. I agree with you there. Bu how about this scenario:

 

1. Zann acquires the stealth-detector that Beni mentioned

2. Zann finds G0-T0 and blasts him to pieces.

OR

3. Zann temporarily surrounds Nar Shaddaa and transmits the following messege to the surface:

"The first person to tell me how to locate G0-T0's ship get's a billion credits."

 

If G0-T0 loses the advantage of his stealh-ship, he loses.

1. That's going to be hard to do without

a. G0-T0 buying it first

b. G0-T0 knowing that Zann has it

2. Even with the stealth field detector there's no guarantee that they will be able to find and destroy him amount either

a. Hundreds of thousands of ships on Nar Shaddaa

b. more likely he already fle the planet

Or

3. Surrounding Nar Shaddaa will end in death. But I understand what you're saying. However, I'm sure many people have wanted to find G0-T0 before, and none have succeeded

Not exactly true. G0-T0 can still win this without the Visionary. He can download himself away as it explodes or use an escape pod. Losing it would harm his power base as he loses those droids and an awesome hideout, but it wouldn't be fatal.

Well first, the "people" of Nar Shaddaa can't do squat. The people that matter (aka smugglers/bounty hunters) are just as happy to work for the Exchange as anyone else. Also, does the Hutt Cartel even exist? If so, the minute Zann starts landing troops on Nar Shaddaa, they'll be his enemies as well. For sure if he tries to bring his fleet into their space.

 

I'm going to point again to the fact that the Exchange is operating on the Hutt Cartels doorstep. G0-T0 operates right under his greatest rival's nose. If that's not a a testament to his ability to do battle in the shadows, I don't know what is. Zann's ground troops will be met with heavy resistance from the natives where ever they walk, as they're invading their territory. Zann has no expirience with underworld fighting. He didn't take on Xizor. He took on the Empire and Rebellion, who didn't know how to use the black market and underworld. This is a much different fight with an organization who specializes in surviving in the underworld. I give the battle to the Exchange.

 

If one of those devices exists, G0-T0 will know about it just as soon, if not sooner than, Zann. He will either buy it or know when Zann buys it. Also, "before he has time to react" doesn't make sense, he's a droid. Also, he can hide in the opposite side of the planet than Zanns forces. Or he can just hide on a different planet in the system. You also assume GO-TO is just floating in space. If above Nar Shaddaa, he's surrounded by other ships, even if he is decloaked, finding and gunning him down in the thousands of ships in the air lanes will give him enough time to hyperspace away.

Now in a gang war G0-T0 is going to have experience of course. But don't underestimate Zann, he does have experience with underworld fighting. He runs a underworld organisation! Of course he does! Yes he fought the Empire and the Rebellion, but he had to build up his organisation before he could challenge them. He started off learning at the feet of Jabba the Hutt, and then built up his empire from there, and I bet underworld fighting came into it alot. Hell he probably has his own turf, maybe even a palace, on Nar Shaddaa already! And don't forget G0-T0 has no experience with full scale warfare, I don't believe many people are going to get in Zann's way when he sends task forces to destroy Exchange bases. He'll have the Hutt's support and anyone else he can buy off. And remember, they are only going to be fighting in Exchange territory, nowhere else. I've already abandoned the idea that Zann can mount a full scale invasion. But ultimately, who wins or loses is irrelevant. Its just a distraction to keep G0-T0 occupied and prevent him from going on the offense, or getting suspicious.

Now there are flaws in this plan of attack, which I'll mention later. But to avoid having a debate with myself I'll let you counter them first before I present my scenario.

And lets just make some ground on the transfer consciousness part to avoid future confusion. In order to make a transfer G0-T0 needs a receptable to house it, and a little bit of uninterrupted time to complete the transfer. And he can't make copies of himself, that just opens up a whole can of worms. Just clarifying here.

I feel like G0-T0 is being forced on the defensive. So lets look at his offensive abilities.

NOTE: With Visquis in the picture, G0-T0 now has Ubese Bounty Hunters

Assassins and bounty hunters.

They're good at finding and killing people.

KOTOR 2.

-HKs find you multiple times on Telos

-Zhug Brothers find you on Nar Shaddaa and Dxun

-HKs find T3

-Twin Suns find Atton

Basically, they're good at finding you. They're that good at finding a small group, they can undoubtably find Zann, the leader of an entire Consortium.

So we have attempts. How many attempts?

-Several HKs

-Several Ubese

-Several Gand

-Several Zhug Brothers

Lots of attempts on Zanns life. I would be surprised if he survives them all.

Zann is just a regular man. With a stealth generator, but still, easily killed. Ubese have stealth too. Ubese and Gand have poison. HK has sniping, which means he won't even be able to stealth.

Zann is also arrogant, self confident, and hands on. He could land on Nar Shaddaa to make allies

Dead.

He could go to buy that stealth detection thing G0-T0 knows about.

Dead.

Assassins and bounty hunters will end up killing Zann eventually. To say otherwise is.... Stupid.

I somehow doubt G0-T0 is that good and could buy the weapon before Zann even knows about it... the evidence we have suggests Zann is better at exploiting the black market than G0-T0. And remember, there will be more than one gravfield trap out there. And by "before he has time to react", yes he is a droid but I don't mean physically. I mean before he has time to make a copy of himself, jump to hyperspace etc. As for the battle on Nar Shaddaa, 'invasion' is the wrong word, gang wars happen all the time on Nar Shaddaa so not many people are gonna be irked when Zann starts one with G0-T0. The way I see it is Zann will work with Vogga and other enemies of G0-T0 to smuggle forces onto Nar Shaddaa, these guys aren't gonna be rampaging through the streets. They'll locate the Exchange bases and attack them head on, the Exchange might hire bounty hunters and smugglers to fight their battle. But what good are they gonna be against Zann's army, and Urai Fen?

 

Now in a gang war G0-T0 is going to have experience of course. But don't underestimate Zann, he does have experience with underworld fighting. He runs a underworld organisation! Of course he does! Yes he fought the Empire and the Rebellion, but he had to build up his organisation before he could challenge them. He started off learning at the feet of Jabba the Hutt, and then built up his empire from there, and I bet underworld fighting came into it alot. Hell he probably has his own turf, maybe even a palace, on Nar Shaddaa already! And don't forget G0-T0 has no experience with full scale warfare, I don't believe many people are going to get in Zann's way when he sends task forces to destroy Exchange bases. He'll have the Hutt's support and anyone else he can buy off. And remember, they are only going to be fighting in Exchange territory, nowhere else. I've already abandoned the idea that Zann can mount a full scale invasion. But ultimately, who wins or loses is irrelevant. Its just a distraction to keep G0-T0 occupied and prevent him from going on the offense, or getting suspicious.

 

Now there are flaws in this plan of attack, which I'll mention later. But to avoid having a debate with myself I'll let you counter them first before I present my scenario.

 

And lets just make some ground on the transfer consciousness part to avoid future confusion. In order to make a transfer G0-T0 needs a receptable to house it, and a little bit of uninterrupted time to complete the transfer. And he can't make copies of himself, that just opens up a whole can of worms. Just clarifying here.

Firstly, the evidence we have suggests that Zann is horrible at the black market. He had to go to Imperial and Rebllion worlds to get what he wanted. Those don't exist. He couldn't even use his own captured worlds for the Black Market. G0-T0, on the other hand, has contacts all over the galaxy and operates on Nar Shaddaa: the heart of the black market. I there is more than one, its likely they're all very expensive and highly advertised. Meaning that G0-T0 will know when one is bought. If Zann plans on invading Exchange hideouts, he needs a new plan. Remember in KOTOR 2? Visquis's base under the jekk'jekk tar was guarded by the cantina people, and maze with mine fields, an Ubese bounty hunters which were super deadly. Yeah, try invading a couple of those with your grunts, Zann, and yes, smugglers and bounty hunters would be very effective, they know how to fight.

Zann built his forces by 1.) discovering an abandoned droideka factory. 2.) stealing Alliance/ Empire stuff 3.) Stealing Mandalore stuff. 4.) Having a prison riot. So I don't really see how these forces are proof that he's skilled at underworld warfare. Also, you may say that the fighting will only happen in Exchange Territory. But G0-T0 knows his stuff. He'll drag it into other territory to get people involved on his side. Besides, Zanns "army" will undoubtably cause damage to surrounding territories.

Firstly, the evidence we have suggests that Zann is horrible at the black market. He had to go to Imperial and Rebllion worlds to get what he wanted. Those don't exist. He couldn't even use his own captured worlds for the Black Market. G0-T0, on the other hand, has contacts all over the galaxy and operates on Nar Shaddaa: the heart of the black market. I there is more than one, its likely they're all very expensive and highly advertised. Meaning that G0-T0 will know when one is bought. If Zann plans on invading Exchange hideouts, he needs a new plan. Remember in KOTOR 2? Visquis's base under the jekk'jekk tar was guarded by the cantina people, and maze with mine fields, an Ubese bounty hunters which were super deadly. Yeah, try invading a couple of those with your grunts, Zann, and yes, smugglers and bounty hunters would be very effective, they know how to fight.

 

Zann built his forces by 1.) discovering an abandoned droideka factory. 2.) stealing Alliance/ Empire stuff 3.) Stealing Mandalore stuff. 4.) Having a prison riot. So I don't really see how these forces are proof that he's skilled at underworld warfare. Also, you may say that the fighting will only happen in Exchange Territory. But G0-T0 knows his stuff. He'll drag it into other territory to get people involved on his side. Besides, Zanns "army" will undoubtably cause damage to surrounding territories.

Zann used the Black Market to acquire unique technologies such as buzz droids and stealth generators. And besides, buying of the black market isn't like playing the stock markets, all Zann needs is connections and money, and he has that. And all that forces build up you mentioned didn't start the consortium, but he was able to do it because he had grown powerful through building up an empire the old fashioned way. Take Black Sun, they didn't start off attacking major shipyards and Hutt assets, but gang wars on the streets.

But a fair point, Jekk'Jekk Tarr is a tough place to inflitrate. But its not the only Exchange base, and Zann doesn't have to win. And bounty hunters and smugglers can be bought, well at least mine can.

But, I think I should present my scenario now. You seem to be following my way of thinking:

Tyber Zann sends some inflitrators, spies whatever to scout out Nar Shaddaa and gather intel on G0-T0 in the opening stages of the battle. G0-T0 does the same but on a galactic scale and monitors Nar Shaddaa for Zann activity. Tyber Zann quickly learns that G0-T0 has a stealthed ship orbiting Nar Shaddaa and G0-T0 perhaps more slowly learns that Zann's base of operations is on Ryloth, and begins siphoning information for Zann's location. Meanwhile Zann makes deals with the Hutts and starts a gang war on Nar Shaddaa with the Exchange, which eventually reaches a stalemate. He also aquires a crystal gravfield trap to decloak the Visionary.

But G0-T0 is a smart droid and realises the attack must be some sort of diversion, so he starts capturing Consortium leaders, including Urai Fen who is subdued by Hanharr. These leaders are then interrogated on Zann's location and his plans. Combined with his initial scouting G0-T0 manages to track Zann down and puts a price on his head, then sends mercenaries and assassins to kill him. He does not however learn about the weapon as only Urai Fen knows this and refuses to crack. G0-T0 however sees him as potential leverage and keeps him on his yacht.

Despite being chased by mercenaries and assassins, he manages to fend them off long enough to drop his capital ship, the Merciless, over Nar Shaddaa, accompanied by an entire fleet. He activates the gravfield trap and moves on the Visionary. G0-T0 warns him however that if he destroys the Visionary Urai Fen will be destroyed with him and Zann is forced to hold fire.

Now at this stalemate could go several ways:

1. G0-T0 stalls long enough to make a get away in an escape pod or makes a transfer of himself as escapes over the HoloNet or something.

2. Tyber Zann is assassinated during the stalemate, or if assassinated beforehand anyway.

3. G0-T0 anticipates the fleets arrival and flees before they can get there, then uses Urai Fen to force Tyber Zann to come to the Visionary in person, and is killed (or outsmarted and destroyed himself).

4. G0-T0 just isn't there, he left the moment the gang war erupted on Nar Shaddaa, or he found out about Zann buying a gravfield trap and made a break for it. Tyber Zann is subject to severe awkwardness.

It all really depends on who holds the most cards...

1. That's going to be hard to do without

a. G0-T0 buying it first

b. G0-T0 knowing that Zann has it

2. Even with the stealth field detector there's no guarantee that they will be able to find and destroy him amount either

a. Hundreds of thousands of ships on Nar Shaddaa

b. more likely he already fle the planet

Or

3. Surrounding Nar Shaddaa will end in death. But I understand what you're saying. However, I'm sure many people have wanted to find G0-T0 before, and none have succeeded

 

Not exactly true. G0-T0 can still win this without the Visionary. He can download himself away as it explodes or use an escape pod. Losing it would harm his power base as he loses those droids and an awesome hideout, but it wouldn't be fatal.

Granted. But I think the loss of his stealth ship would indeed be fatal.

Zann used the Black Market to acquire unique technologies such as buzz droids and stealth generators. And besides, buying of the black market isn't like playing the stock markets, all Zann needs is connections and money, and he has that. And all that forces build up you mentioned didn't start the consortium, but he was able to do it because he had grown powerful through building up an empire the old fashioned way. Take Black Sun, they didn't start off attacking major shipyards and Hutt assets, but gang wars on the streets.

 

But a fair point, Jekk'Jekk Tarr is a tough place to inflitrate. But its not the only Exchange base, and Zann doesn't have to win. And bounty hunters and smugglers can be bought, well at least mine can.

 

But, I think I should present my scenario now. You seem to be following my way of thinking:

 

Tyber Zann sends some inflitrators, spies whatever to scout out Nar Shaddaa and gather intel on G0-T0 in the opening stages of the battle. G0-T0 does the same but on a galactic scale and monitors Nar Shaddaa for Zann activity. Tyber Zann quickly learns that G0-T0 has a stealthed ship orbiting Nar Shaddaa and G0-T0 perhaps more slowly learns that Zann's base of operations is on Ryloth, and begins siphoning information for Zann's location. Meanwhile Zann makes deals with the Hutts and starts a gang war on Nar Shaddaa with the Exchange, which eventually reaches a stalemate. He also aquires a crystal gravfield trap to decloak the Visionary.

 

But G0-T0 is a smart droid and realises the attack must be some sort of diversion, so he starts capturing Consortium leaders, including Urai Fen who is subdued by Hanharr. These leaders are then interrogated on Zann's location and his plans. Combined with his initial scouting G0-T0 manages to track Zann down and puts a price on his head, then sends mercenaries and assassins to kill him. He does not however learn about the weapon as only Urai Fen knows this and refuses to crack. G0-T0 however sees him as potential leverage and keeps him on his yacht.

 

Despite being chased by mercenaries and assassins, he manages to fend them off long enough to drop his capital ship, the Merciless, over Nar Shaddaa, accompanied by an entire fleet. He activates the gravfield trap and moves on the Visionary. G0-T0 warns him however that if he destroys the Visionary Urai Fen will be destroyed with him and Zann is forced to hold fire.

 

Now at this stalemate could go several ways:

 

1. G0-T0 stalls long enough to make a get away in an escape pod or makes a transfer of himself as escapes over the HoloNet or something.

2. Tyber Zann is assassinated during the stalemate, or if assassinated beforehand anyway.

3. G0-T0 anticipates the fleets arrival and flees before they can get there, then uses Urai Fen to force Tyber Zann to come to the Visionary in person, and is killed (or outsmarted and destroyed himself).

4. G0-T0 just isn't there, he left the moment the gang war erupted on Nar Shaddaa, or he found out about Zann buying a gravfield trap and made a break for it. Tyber Zann is subject to severe awkwardness.

 

It all really depends on who holds the most cards...

I agree with your scenario pretty much.I believe Zann is very skilled and cunning.He could challange G0 to a duel.

And if G0 appeared Zann would destroy the poor droid.. .

But I dissagree with you in the end.Zann could do something so G0's program cannot be transfered somewhere

else(if he knew).And Urai was Zann's only friend,but Zann was cold and ruthless.He could just srew Urai and

destroy the Visionary.I don't find that hard to happen....

Didn't G0-T0 effectively have an unlimited supply of HK-50s though... HK-50s probably outclassed droidekas because they actually had some intelligence, tanks can be destroyed, and as to soldiers they wouldn't have a consistent level of skill and the HK-50s are more easily replaceable.

 

The other flaw in the argument is that Zann would still have his droidekas... G0-T0 was an expert at seizing control of droids. G0-T0 could easily walk off with a substancial amount of Zann's forces, even have them turn on Zann at the drop of a hat.

 

 

 

G0-T0 would likely have an easier time locating Zann, than Zann would have locating G0-T0, the crime boss Goto never existed, but Zann wouldn't know that. Plus G0-T0 can easily reprogram large numbers of droids, meaning G0-T0 could easily have droid spies in Zann's organization without Zann realizing it.

 

 

 

Interesting take, but I'm going to consider this brawl to be irrelevent in the grand scheme of the overall war.

 

 

 

Problem with that argument is that G0-T0 has a built in stealth field generator, the most likely one to win that kind of a fight would be Zann, but it wouldn't be a landslide victory and could just as easily end up with G0-T0 winning.

 

 

 

Considering G0-T0 can easily hijack part of Zann's armed forces right off the bat, it's safe to assume that Zann will have a sudden and rather bloody decrease in manpower as the droidekas turn on his soldiers.

 

Additionally, the fleet Zann has is relatively worthless because G0-T0's base of operations is completely mobile and cloaked. Then you add in the unlimited HK-50's (which are also walking explosive devices), and I don't see Zann continuing to enjoy his large army.

 

 

 

I find that to be extremely unlikely.

 

Zann will be hunting for "Goto" whom doesn't even exist, G0-T0 made him up, so we have Zann trying to hunt down an individual that doesn't exist, never suspecting he's battling against a droid.

 

Unless Zann is very lucky, I don't see how G0-T0 can lose this fight short of extremely bad luck.

Zann has overall greater resources, and he has two major advantages. The nightsisters, and the Mandalorians - more specifically, the Mandalorian ships. The nightsisters would make his ground forces extremely powerful - even the HK's would be overwhelmed - and the Mandalorian ships were some of the very best. Goto would never be able to challenge Zann straight out; it would be absolute suicide. Zann's flagship is cloaked the same as Goto's; except it's a vastly more powerful ship. Goto's stealth and mobility would not give him any level of sizable advantage over Zann. Zann's fleet is larger and more powerful, and it enjoys the same benefits as Goto's. This would give Zann the ability to put pressure on all of Goto's operations across the galaxy. Putting that kind of pressure of Goto would severely weaken Goto's ability to beat Zann through more subtle methods (which I admit, Goto has the advantage over Zann in). Zann's show of power could get several influential crime lords to back him, further weakening Goto. Goto does have a considerable advantage in the HK units which are far superior to other droid types, but they also would give Zann a away to track Goto down. Wiping Goto out would be immensely difficult - maybe even impossible to accomplish for Zann - but Goto's power and influence would be swept away by Zann.

I agree with your scenario pretty much.I believe Zann is very skilled and cunning.He could challange G0 to a duel.

And if G0 appeared Zann would destroy the poor droid.. .

 

But I dissagree with you in the end.Zann could do something so G0's program cannot be transfered somewhere

else(if he knew).And Urai was Zann's only friend,but Zann was cold and ruthless.He could just srew Urai and

destroy the Visionary.I don't find that hard to happen....

G0-T0 would destroy Zann 1v1. The droid has the ability to defeat HK-47. He can totally take a mere human.

Zann can't really stop G0-T0 from transferring I don't see how that's possible.

Zann will not abandon Urai. He's the crime lord's only friend.

Now at this stalemate could go several ways:

 

1. G0-T0 stalls long enough to make a get away in an escape pod or makes a transfer of himself as escapes over the HoloNet or something.

2. Tyber Zann is assassinated during the stalemate, or if assassinated beforehand anyway.

3. G0-T0 anticipates the fleets arrival and flees before they can get there, then uses Urai Fen to force Tyber Zann to come to the Visionary in person, and is killed (or outsmarted and destroyed himself).

4. G0-T0 just isn't there, he left the moment the gang war erupted on Nar Shaddaa, or he found out about Zann buying a gravfield trap and made a break for it. Tyber Zann is subject to severe awkwardness.

 

It all really depends on who holds the most cards...

This seems like a legitimate scenario. Although i still disagree on the fact that G0-T0 would not know if Zann bought that device. Zann uses the black market, but G0-T0 IS the black market.

I would like to point out that all 4 of those options benefit G0-T0. He holds all the cards.

Zann has overall greater resources, and he has two major advantages. The nightsisters, and the Mandalorians - more specifically, the Mandalorian ships. The nightsisters would make his ground forces extremely powerful - even the HK's would be overwhelmed - and the Mandalorian ships were some of the very best.

I think the Nightsisters are overrated. Like honestly, I do. I don't understand how they're so deadly or great. They're witches. But... There's nothing super special about them, is there? Like, what is so great about them?

The HK droids are designed to kill force users. So no, they would not be overwhelmed. HK-47 killed many a Jedi in his day. Nightsisters are not Jedi, they're much weaker. And crazier.

Mandalorian ships won't help Zann here. G0-T0 doesn't have a fleet. He doesn't. He would get crushed, one ship against a fleet. So obviously he won't do that, and those fancy Mando ships will jut sit in space looking nice.

This seems like a legitimate scenario. Although i still disagree on the fact that G0-T0 would not know if Zann bought that device. Zann uses the black market, but G0-T0 IS the black market.

 

I would like to point out that all 4 of those options benefit G0-T0. He holds all the cards.

Here's a plausible escape plan. G0-T0 downloads his self into another body or the ship itself, or simply hides on the ship. He then jettisons a escape pod and Zann destroys it, thinking G0-T0 dead. Zann then boards the Visionary or has someone board it and rescue Fen. G0-T0 follows Zann or his underlings onto the Merciless stealthed. G0-T0 assassinates Zann and escapes. Checkmate.