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Jedi Knight vs Jedi Consular story (underrated?)


JFrombaugh

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I've heard that a lot of people complain that the story for the Jedi Consular is really boring, and I completely disagree. Let me explain... (Warning: Spoilers below!)

 

Bioware themselves have said that the Consular is based on Obi-Wan Kanobi, while the Knight is based on Luke Skywalker. So, first off I will admit that Consular story does start off kind of slow, however, by the start of Chapter 2, the Consular character really finds his feet and he really becomes...well, in terms of personality & abilities you very much become like Master Satele Shan in many ways, you know? You're still a relatively young Jedi, but throughout the prologue even, its heavily implied that there's a stud in there, a rock inside that alien who's exceptionally strong in the Force, that could be a better Jedi leader than Master Yuon was, a better Jedi leader than the Order has seen in a long time.

 

You start off like all jedi, you know, as a padawan. Then you go about saving these afflicted Jedi Masters, and you've got this Jedi Council's pet healer/wise man kind of personality, and by design, you know? You can't just start the character off perfect, there's nowhere to go from there.

 

And up until the end of Chapter 1 your character prefers words to action, much by design. But in Chapter 2 it's time for him to step it up, because the Republic is in danger, and the Empire plans to hit them while they're vulnerable. As thanks for all the Jedi you saved and defeating this plaguemaster, you end up becoming a Jedi Master & Barsenthor,the latter of which is a title of extreme respect given to a trusted diplomat and warden of the order. Your job in Chapter 2 is to convince a number of planets that the Republic cares about them by fighting the Imperial presence on each world - because if those worlds do secede there's no way the Republic will be able to survive the Sith Empire's assault. And then in Chapter 3, when the peace treaty is shattered by the Empire, is where you find that next gear and really become this Jedi Master that all of the Rift Alliance worlds & the races you recruit unequivocally tell, "Yes, we will follow you to the seat of the Empire and beyond." The final boss of the Consular story I won't spoil for you, but suffice it to say that it really played out in a way I did not expect. And at the end of the story, you end up becoming part of the Jedi Council (though you still go off and fight the Empire on Illum). How awesome is that?!

 

As for the Jedi Knight, correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't actually played one), but from what I've seen a lot of it is predictable lightsaber duel after predictable lightsaber duel. Even though it does culminate with you killing the Emperor (which is undeniably EPIC), according to the lore behind the scenes, not only does he ultimately actually survive, but instead of removing the evil influence and allowing the Empire to accept a new path of life as the Knight had intended, they're now more determined than ever to destroy the Republic and the Jedi.

 

Having said that, I think the main reason why so many people prefer the Jedi Knight's storyline is because it involves a lot more action, remembering what the Jedi are supposed to be about. This lawful good overdrive. We're supposed to be superheroes, you know? Even if we are defenders of peace, we can't just sit around while the Empire kills innocents, murders Jedi, and enslaves force-sensitives. And I think a lot of players want to feel that overdrive -- we're in it to make the galaxy a better place. And I think also the Trooper storyline has its own version of that, you know, stopping to consider what's happened the past couple of years and what's been lost and fighting for the good of the Republic and all. Plus I know a lot of people really like classic warrior classes in MMOs (I myself have always kind of liked healer classes and I would definitely point out that the Consular, especially the Sage, is not really intended to be a "warrior" or "fighter" lore-wise)

 

But I definitely think the Consular's story is very well-written in it's own way. You'll be proud to be a Jedi by the end of this thing, regardless of which class you choose. :)

 

(On an unrelated note: I've always thought the male Consular voice sounds a lot like Alex Trebek.)

 

Anyone else who has played both a JK & JC agree?

Edited by JFrombaugh
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For me I see it this way: Jedi Knight is for the KotOR fans, it's a very obvious classic Star Wars story but doesn't really expand at all on the lore, Consular is for the KotOR II: TSL fans, it's a far more intellectually based storyline and is mainly for the fans of Star Wars over all, it expands a lot on the existing lore and delves deeply into the meanings of the force.

 

Just the thing I noticed between the two.

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  • 1 month later...
The consular also has more ranged telikenesik abilities I have seen which can be important for those that prefer that kind of playstyle to the more up close and persoanl meele abilites of the knight. Every class has its advantages and drawbacks that are each suited to a different play style that will appeal to different individuals.
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i just didn't like the fact that the only planet you help in the rift alliance is balmoria, these guys seem a tad selfish yet you don't help mananan or ryloth (im guessing the twilek is representing that planet as i have forgotten) quesh work to a point but i feel that you only go to hoth because the gamplay demands it nothing more.
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I have enjoyed the Consular story so far I admit I am only on Nar Shaddaa mainly because I want to get my Inquisitor to level 50 before finishing my alts. However I think there is more to the Consular being on Hoth than people think or able to catch. So for those who doubt give the Consular a try even if you might need to leave and comeback to the character from time to time. I know when my Assassin is finished my Shadow will be next.
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  • 1 year later...

For those paying close attention to details and nuance, it quickly becomes clear that the Knight is mostly just a meathead, whereas the Consular is the brains and the power. Just look at the titles and ranks; for one thing, titles are a dime a dozen for the Consular, while the Knight doesn't earn nearly as many over the course of the story. Even the title of Master is handed to the Consular at the start of Chapter 2 as an afterthought; according to the story, if the Knight goes DS, the Knight does not get the title of Master at the end of Chapter 3. Further, it is the Consular, not the Knight, that gets offered a seat on the Jedi Council, DS or LS.

 

The Consular, after Chapter 1, also is given quite a bit of leeway and freedom to move without having to answer to the Council on Tython after every major event. By the end of Chapter 3, the Consular becomes effectively the single most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, not only as a member of the Jedi Council (having defeated yet another Master in Syo Bakarn/the First Son), but with an army composed of some of the galaxy's fiercest warriors, and a familiarity with some of the galaxy's highest-ranking individuals (not just Supreme Chancellor Saresh). The Jedi Order dares not touch the Consular because the army answers to the Consular, not the Order, and the galaxy's high-ranking personnel know the Consular, not the Order. The Consular's title Barsen'thor means "Warden of the Order," indicating that it is the Consular's duty and within the Consular's abilities to guard and guide the Order.

 

The Knight? A champion of the Order, sure, but not a Jedi warlord, and still at the Order's beck and call. The Knight certainly doesn't hobnob with some of the galaxy's highest-ranking politicians, and certainly isn't rewarded with the title of Barsen'thor or a seat on the Jedi Council. The Knight has no army like the Consular's, and there is some question as to whether or not the "Emperor" that the Knight defeated was the definitive form of Vitiate.

 

The Consular's story is somewhat slow-going in Chapter 1, but in terms of galactic standing, there is no question who is first.

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The Knight story is the usual trite Karpyshyn stuff that I got sick of back in 2003. Also, Doc is obnoxious and the end to Chapter 2 made me very angry. On the bright side, the gameplay is awesome (Vig Guardians ftw) and you get Kira.

 

The Consular story is a slightly less trite building-alliances thing that I'm not sick of yet. On balance, I'd say it's significantly better than the Knight story. On the other hand, Tharan is incredibly obnoxious, and I'm not a fan of the gameplay while solo leveling (Sage healing in group content is pretty fun though). Also, while it's good to see somebody acting like a war leader, the troop levels the Consular is dealing with are actually kind of sad. Part of that's game limitations, I know, but still. You don't really feel like a general. More like a lieutenant commanding her first platoon.

 

Now, to be fair, the Knight does get in some token high-level command stuff on Corellia, near the end. Probably one of the best parts of the class's story. So it's not fair to talk about the Knight as "just some meathead"; this is the greatest warrior in the Order, who also apparently possesses significant acumen for command. High politics is, however, much more of a Consular brief than a Knight one.

 

I think that people took the Consulars' dry, relatively emotionless, understated voiceover job, which was kinda boring, and painted the rest of the story like that. Which isn't really fair. The story's perfectly fine. Voice acting wasn't my thing.

Edited by Euphrosyne
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I don't like to compare class stories and say which is better and which is worse...because they are all different...and they all tell their own story. It simply comes down to personal preference...not whether or not the actual story itself is good or not. Edited by VitalityPrime
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I've played both, and like them both for different reasons. The JK is essentially the "chosen one" And the JC is the diplomat who's been specifically trained for "aggressive negotiations" Lol. I'm actually replaying both classes now as a female character to see the differences. But I enjoyed the majority of both stories.
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I am progressing through Chapter 1, and there are 3 things I do not like about the Consular class. I would have abandoned it if I did not play as a party.

 

1. The most important thing is that the actually very emotionally charged story is downplayed. Everyone is like:Oh, you are a tad pale.... no ability to show the angst, the crew railing around the PC in the awesome KOTOR2 style... just a touch peaky. Heck, even my Rajivari blade is called... a lightsaber. That was like the best part so far!

 

The Jedi Knight I am paired with gets heroic Whoo-HOOS!!! You ROCKSSSS! OUR HERO!!!! Every time he enters the story area. A Sage? Not so much (Well, good job. Do you want to lie down?). Also, a story is kind of easy to guess at the moment everyone starts telling you how Jedi Master #3 is soooo charismatic.

 

2. Voicing. Holy cow, can she sound a wee bit more trilling? There is no normal sounding women who do voice-acting who can sound sincere delivering the "I shall go on with the Sacrifices, Good Masters." dialogues? Argh. The texts are bland, can we at least have a better delivery? An alternative voice-pack? ANYTHING?

 

3. Qyzen. Gods, how can anyone possibly have conceived to stick any PC with Qyzen for the entire endless Taris with Bonus Series? Add a nice neutral companion on the Fleet?

 

Actually, four things!

 

4. Iresso? Really? With Tharan and Zenith coming on board earlier? You gotta be kidding me! Is it REALLY that hard to poll females in the community before picking the least interesting male as a RI? And a marriage material RI for a Consular for that matter? At the very least, an overlay where this old shoe soldier doesn't look a day over eighteen?

Edited by DomiSotto
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3. Qyzen. Gods, how can anyone possibly have conceived to stick any PC with Qyzen for the entire endless Taris with Bonus Series? Add a nice neutral companion on the Fleet?

 

Haha...I feel for you.

 

After playing through some of the Inquisitor story and seeing videos of the Consular story...the Consular really got the low end of the stick with Qyzen. Khem is bad*** and really makes the Inq story great...but Qyzen is almost bad enough to make me never want to play a Consular.

Edited by VitalityPrime
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Play as a group. You get the partner's companion. Kira is COOL. Riggs is amusing. Aric is not much of a trade-up. Well, at least he yells at someone else. But it gets better. Qyzen is the worst, but the rest of the crew is pretty good. Too bad one can't do the Tython to Nar-Shaddaa express.
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Played both, as a Sentinel and a Shadow. It's mixed. The Knight I feel has the better companions in general- although my ideal mix would be T-7, Kira, Tharan, Scourge, and Nadia, to be honest, out of the Jedi companions.

 

Story and voice-acting-wise, I prefer the (female) Consular to the female Knight. The Consular story feels more involved, more intellectual- the Knight does great deeds, but is, essentially, Satele Shan's Weapon. No different to being Darth Baras' or the Emperor's enforcer on the Imperial equivalent, Satele is just nicer about it. The Consular's victory feels more her *own*, and like she's her own agent, rather than slotting into place in a legend. The voice acting has a wonderful air of intelligent snark to it- check out the Esseles run, if you don't want to go *too* far into a Consular to see what I mean, her "*I* make the decisions, not *you*, Ambassador" snarkdown to Asara at one point is wonderfully voiced, and her playful joking with Kilran later "If this is a bad time..." - when the Grand Moff is actually pleasantly surprised at the banter- shows just how much the accusations of "bland and non-emotional" are failing to look beyond the surface.

 

The Jedi Consular has a great *deal* of depth to her performance, she just doesn't feel the need to wear a big hat with "I am having an EMOTION" printed on it, each time she has one.

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I love the jedi consular. I'm playing through it for the THIRD TIME!

 

Most people I've talked to who dislike it tend to dislike the overall lack of polish to the consular story. It's undeniable. Try playing a dark side consular and you'll see what I mean. The continuity errors are egregious. There really isn't much flexibility, you're pigeonholed into being a good guy despite your best efforts to the contrary. Play the class "as intended" and it's a great story. Try to deviate significantly (which I have tried) and it's no surprise why some people walk away from the Consular story feeling underwhelmed and disappointed.

 

The voice acting in general, male or female, of any class is underwhelming and unimpressive when the story starts. The actors, I presume, were getting a "feel" for their respective characters. But bland and emotionless? Absolutely not, at least not the female voice. I personally love the female voice acting, I love Qyzen (one of my favorite companions game-wide, up there with Vette), I love the downplayed behind-the-scenes heroics.

Edited by eldefail
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Esseles was the only Flashpoint we managed to play. I am afraid I was too busy not dying there (NOT AGAIN!) to appreciate the voice acting. Maybe I just don't like the high voice, I am not sure. I am glad you folks are enjoying it. I can't say I noticed sophistication in her responses. Even as opposite to cleverness. Be that as it may, out of 4 characters I have played any length so far, I've liked the Consular the least. I do play LG, very rarely making DS choices.

 

It was interesting to see how Masters change before and after healing, but the character herself... I don't know.

 

It could be a function of only seeing half of her content due to perma-grouping. It could be that the game play is not particularly engaging so far, mostly watching three other character health bars for rotating Force Armor and Deliverance with an odd sequence of project/WM/FS/TT thrown in, and rarely having a chance to even take the Lightsabre out... and the spell damage is almost inconsequential (and yes, I understand why). I have just gotten a couple of slightly heavier spells, but don't think they are anything special.

 

Fresh after KOTOR 2 run (I have been on a gaming hiatus since ~ 2007) I couldn't wait to play a Jedi again (and I played a Consular, and yes, the Exile healed AND did enough damage), but I am much more enjoying the shooters in this game, particular the Smuggler (her animations are very entertaining) and it seems like a great deal went into making Sith appealing as well (holy cow, SW is flashy). I wish we could at least have something like the antagonist in the last KOTOR 2 battle, animating and throwing multiple LS. There is no shortage of those in the game...

 

One more thing - the story so far did not supply me with any NPC provoking a strong emotional response. In other stories, I have seen characters I either cared for or hated, but in Consular, none so far. Vivicar remained behind the scene, so he is not as much in your face as Skavak or Barras. Yuon had very brief presence, unlike the other first bosses (I loved how SW solves the First Boss quest, for example). I might have cared for Atros, but he disappeared fast.

 

Funnily, so far Holiday was the most interesting and human aspect of the story, but I gather she is not going to have any cool backstory & I am not allowed to talk to her w/o Tharan. They are the saving grace in Chapter 1 for me. I've got nearly interested in the Taooine lag of the story, but it got cut short. I have high hopes for Alderaan. Alderaan has to be interesting with the diplomacy story arc. Fingers crossed!

Edited by DomiSotto
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.It could be that the game play is not particularly engaging so far, mostly watching three other character health bars for rotating Force Armor and Deliverance with an odd sequence of project/WM/FS/TT thrown in, and rarely having a chance to even take the Lightsabre out... and the spell damage is almost inconsequential (and yes, I understand why). I have just gotten a couple of slightly heavier spells, but don't think they are anything special.

 

I'm sorry, what? As a healer Sage, I can kill pretty much any enemy with Disturbance > Throw > Project > Mind Crush > Heal Qyzen > Disturbance, and that's a strong or elite enemy. A regular enemy I can kill with Disturbance > Throw and occasionally add in a Project, and a weak usually dies with one Disturbance, or at least the Throw that follows it.

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That's not my experience. I don't really count the easy mobs/class stories (though we do visit), we just split and wipe out for legacy counts.

 

But once I encounter the harder characters, the damage the spells do is in the 200-500 range (when the Knight or a shooter dishes 800+). On a lightsaber stroke, the damage is barely 200. I am fairly over-leveled (start a planet a 2-4 levels higher than the opening range), but for example, Tharan and my Consular had to just hang in there for a while, not being able to dish out enough damage to a pair of Sandpeople one of which was healing another (a complete impasse, Tharan and Consular were doing exactly the same) until my husband's Knight and Kira were done slicing. Then they came over, and killed the Sandpeople in two strokes of a lightsaber. Obi Wan didn't shy away from the saber, if I recall :)

 

By whatever reason, even wearing the same gear, my husband's Knight always had much higher defense rating than Qyzen, probably game mechanics. That's same thing is true for other heavy armor characters, actually.

 

I do prefer Tharan and Holiday, because it allows us to deal with one enemy at a time, not to mention the looks and the personality appeal & they definitely fit better with out party configuration, each fighter gets a healer and a buffer.:)

 

That's said, my husband's Knight and Kira die without our backup. Heroic 2+ are easy (well, when overlevelled, yes), but Heroic 4+ are undoable for us 9we've just tried one on Tatooine BS before leaving for Alderaan, and it was a no-go, despite us being good 5 levels over the announced rating. Dunno how people do it). We also couldn't win a flashpoint (but that's partially graphics). We do not chase down the expensive gear, crafting and exchanging commendations for blue mods, and filling the rest of them with green mods, I am sure that would help and all, but well, we are not that invested.

Edited by DomiSotto
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I might, because I hear that in Chapter 2, the Flashpoints are story-related, so I would hate to miss that. I was lazy with gear side till now.

 

I don't think it is that bad, so far we didn't lose much content. I can kill standard difficulty enemies fast enough. But because I play character always side by side with a Jedi Knight of exact same level, I can see the difference.

 

As the character levels up, I will be able to use the suggested rotations, since most of them use the higher level spells in the sequences. I will need to start doing it anyway on the solo characters, since they do not have the group to fall back on.

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You might consider asking for some rotation advice and whatnot in the consular or sage forums. However, if you simply do not enjoy the sage mechanics I imagine that's definitely putting a damper on the whole consular experience for you. Single player games like KOTOR and KOTOR II don't really need to be strictly balanced, but in an MMO the same old "I can heal and melt faces" thing doesn't work, what with it essentially being unfair to other classes and all. I loved consular gameplay in the old kotor games, but it's definitely a different experience in TOR, where it's a standard MMO mage or healer class.

 

I find it easy to solo as a sage, whether I'm specced for healing or damage. Perhaps you're not properly utilizing your abilities to their fullest? Definitely check out the consular/sage forums or google a sage/sorcerer gameplay guide. At the end of the day not everyone likes the standard MMO caster role, though, so if you just can't get into it maybe shadow would be more up your alley? It's hard to enjoy the story if you can't get into the character and don't enjoy playing it.

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No, I think it is not so much that I am not utilizing my abilities, as that I play the role in a group of 4 characters. Jedi Knight (my Husband), Kira and Tharan. Being a Primary Healer with an occasional DPS rotation is what works for this party composition atm.

 

Honestly, it's not that bad, and by all that is posted, the story will build up, plus the companion choice is much more to my liking from this point on. So, my heart might change and my Zabrak in her white dress will move up to the favored category. ;)

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