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what operation is easiest?

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JujuManiac

JujuManiac

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Agreed pre 1.2

 

Now I think EV Hard < KP Hard.

 

They made SOA much easier and you can do the whole EV with just 1 Tank, which allows a more flexible raid setup. They even fixed the pylon bugs.

 

Anyhow EV is much faster, so have more time if you wipe a few times at your first trys.

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cshouston

cshouston

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Easiest to hardest:

 

EV Storymode

KP Storymode

EV Hardmode

KP Hardmode

EC Storymode

EV Nightmare

KP Nightmare

EC Hardmode

 

-Flain

 

Changed that up a bit to match my perception. Honestly, it's kind of a loaded question because different people are going to have different opinions based on their experiences (and since that's based off of 7 or 15 other people, some folks might have a crappier guild and consider something harder when it doesn't necessarily have to be).

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Flain

Flain

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Changed that up a bit to match my perception. Honestly, it's kind of a loaded question because different people are going to have different opinions based on their experiences (and since that's based off of 7 or 15 other people, some folks might have a crappier guild and consider something harder when it doesn't necessarily have to be).

 

cshouston please don't quote me and then change what my post was, altering other peoples opinions is failsauce. yes I do I agree though that it is mostly based on group composition and how well geared/good the players are etc...

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MidichIorian

MidichIorian

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EV HM requires much less of the DPS'es than KP HM. I have on several occassions pugged KP HM and wiped because we couldnt take down the bosses in time. Thank God for battlelog parsers because they made it clear that I wasnt the problem., I fulfilled my part of the DPS'ing and then some.
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KeyboardNinja

KeyboardNinja

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EV HM used to be substantially harder than KP HM. This was fixed in 1.2 with the changes to Soa (specifically: fixing the lightning balls and tweaking the throw ability so that it CCs rather than does damage). EV HM is now easier than KP HM.

 

As for whether or not the nightmare modes are easier than EC story mode, I'm not really sure. My group has cleared both, and while we found the mechanics of EC to be much tighter, the sheer *numbers* on nightmare EV were problematic (e.g. 10k hit on the sage healer at *maximum* range during Gharj's pounce ability). Our execution on EV NiM was essentially flawless, and it was about as challenging as EC story mode. I feel that if we had a little more practice on EC, it would probably feel easier than EV NiM overall. So, I would say:

 

EV SM

KP SM (ironically, puzzle droid is much harder on SM than on HM)

EV HM (fairly well tuned)

KP HM (Bonethrasher is the DPS check, Jarg Sorno healer check, all else faceroll)

EC SM (make sure you have two well-coordinated tanks and strong healers)

EV NiM (same as hard mode, just with more damage)

KP NiM (Bonethrasher's cleave is *insane*; Fabricator is annoying once again)

EC HM (good luck with Kephess…)

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tkinnunzero

tkinnunzero

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EV SM

KP SM (ironically, puzzle droid is much harder on SM than on HM)

EV HM (fairly well tuned)

KP HM (Bonethrasher is the DPS check, Jarg Sorno healer check, all else faceroll)

EC SM (make sure you have two well-coordinated tanks and strong healers)

EV NiM (same as hard mode, just with more damage)

KP NiM (Bonethrasher's cleave is *insane*; Fabricator is annoying once again)

EC HM (good luck with Kephess…)

 

Anyone else still see the same slight problem in the above?

 

Shouldn't the progression look like this:

EV Story Mode

KP Story Mode

EC Story Mode (after retuning)

EV Hard Mode

KP Hard Mode

EC Hard Mode (after retuning)

EV Nightmare Mode

KP Nightmare Mode

EC Nightmare Mode (why is this missing?)

 

Or maybe EC difficulties are named incorrectly:

EV Story Mode

KP Story Mode

EC Real Story Mode (currently missing)

EV Hard Mode

KP Hard Mode

EC Hard Mode (currently called Story Mode)

EV Nightmare Mode

KP Nightmare Mode

EC Nightmare Mode (currently called Hard Mode)

 

I mean, they all drop same tier 1 loot, just with different palettes and item levels, so what's going on here?

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KeyboardNinja

KeyboardNinja

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EC doesn't need to be retuned. It is tier 2 content. I would expect it to be out of reach for people who haven't yet cleared the tier 1 content on all difficulty modes.

 

Honestly, EC is an amazingly balanced operation. It's *very* tight and requires solid composition and coordination among your team. The only thing I don't like about it is the never-ending trash. I would be very depressed if they nerfed the boss fights in any way though. Keep the harder content…hard.

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Ganrax

Ganrax

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Anyone else still see the same slight problem in the above?

 

Shouldn't the progression look like this:

EV Story Mode

KP Story Mode

EC Story Mode (after retuning)

EV Hard Mode

KP Hard Mode

EC Hard Mode (after retuning)

EV Nightmare Mode

KP Nightmare Mode

EC Nightmare Mode (why is this missing?)

 

Or maybe EC difficulties are named incorrectly:

EV Story Mode

KP Story Mode

EC Real Story Mode (currently missing)

EV Hard Mode

KP Hard Mode

EC Hard Mode (currently called Story Mode)

EV Nightmare Mode

KP Nightmare Mode

EC Nightmare Mode (currently called Hard Mode)

 

I mean, they all drop same tier 1 loot, just with different palettes and item levels, so what's going on here?

 

I don't think you get the concept of Tiered raid content. Eternity Vault and Karraga's Palace are Tier 1 Operations. Explosive Conflict is the first Tier 2 Operation. Storymode of EC is more difficult than EV and KP Storymodes, requires more gear, and drops better gear. It is intentionally not on the same Tier as EV and KP.

 

Just look at the drops:

Story Mode EV: Columi Tokens, Tionese Commendations.

Story Mode KP: Columi Tokens, Tionese Commendations.

Hard Mode EV: Rakata Tokens, Columi Commendations.

Hard Mode KP: Rakata Tokens, Columi Commendations.

Nightmare EV: Rakata Tokens, Columi Commendations.

Nightmare KP: Rakata Tokens, Black Hole Commendations.

Story Mode EC: Rakata Tokens, Black Hole Commendations.

Hard Mode EC: Campaign Tokens, Black Hole Commendations.

 

Now this is how I view how the progression is intentionally going(only the colors indicate the order):

Story Mode EV

Story Mode KP

Hard Mode EV

Hard Mode KP

Nightmare EV

Nightmare KP

Story Mode EC

Hard Mode EC

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DyasAlue

DyasAlue

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I don't think you get the concept of Tiered raid content. Eternity Vault and Karraga's Palace are Tier 1 Operations. Explosive Conflict is the first Tier 2 Operation. Storymode of EC is more difficult than EV and KP Storymodes, requires more gear, and drops better gear. It is intentionally not on the same Tier as EV and KP.

 

Just look at the drops:

Story Mode EV: Columi Tokens, Tionese Commendations.

Story Mode KP: Columi Tokens, Tionese Commendations.

Hard Mode EV: Rakata Tokens, Columi Commendations.

Hard Mode KP: Rakata Tokens, Columi Commendations.

Nightmare EV: Rakata Tokens, Columi Commendations.

Nightmare KP: Rakata Tokens, Black Hole Commendations.

Story Mode EC: Rakata Tokens, Black Hole Commendations.

Hard Mode EC: Campaign Tokens, Black Hole Commendations.

 

Now this is how I view how the progression is intentionally going(only the colors indicate the order):

Story Mode EV

Story Mode KP

Hard Mode EV

Hard Mode KP

Nightmare EV

Nightmare KP

Story Mode EC

Hard Mode EC

 

Whatever you feel I would say this is probably how they intend it. Due to what was said, look at the rewards. Nice observation.

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tkinnunzero

tkinnunzero

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Posted (edited)

Ok, I looked over some chest pieces to see if I can make sense of this by looking at the stats themselves. First, some Death Knight DPS chest pieces from another game: 7 items with set bonuses. There's also 7 items without set bonuses, but they looked like sidegrades or placeholders for the set item so I skipped them.

 

To summarize, the 7 items comprise 3 raid tiers and 2, 2, and 3 difficulty levels respectively. Going from one raid tier to next is an average 5.16% increase in item level, going from an easier difficulty to the next is an average 3.43% increase. One notable thing is that set bonuses are only shared between different difficulty levels within one tier.

 

Gory details here:

 

 

Tier 11 -> Tier 12 -> Tier 13 (ilvl 359 -> 378 -> 397):

+5.29%, +5.03%

 

T11 Normal -> T11 Hard (ilvl 359 -> 372):

+3.62%

 

T12 Normal -> T12 Hard (ilvl 378 -> 391):

+3.44%

 

T13 Casual -> T13 Normal -> T13 Hard (ilvl 384 -> 397 -> 410):

+3.39%, +3.27%

 

 

 

Looking at Juggernaut tank chest items, here are the items ordered by item level (from swtor.askmrrobot.com):

 

 

 

  • KP Normal (ilvl 51)
    • Xenotech War Leader's Body Armor

     

    [*]EV Normal (ilvl 56)

    • Columi War Leader's Body Armor

     

    [*]KP Hard (ilvl 56)

    • Exotech War Leader's Body Armor

     

    [*]EC Normal (ilvl 58)

    • Rakata War Leader's Body Armor

     

    [*]EV Hard (ilvl 58)

    • Rakata War Leader's Body Armor

     

    [*]EC Normal (ilvl 61)

    • Black Hole Bulwark's MK-2 Body Armor
    • Black Hole Bulwark's MK-3 Body Armor

     

    [*]EC Hard (ilvl 61)

    • Black Hole Bulwark's MK-2 Body Armor
    • Black Hole Bulwark's MK-3 Body Armor
    • Campaign War Leader's Body Armor

 

First thing to note is that Campaign War Leader's Body Armor has the same set bonus as Columi War Leader's Body Armor, strongly suggesting that they belong to the same tier.

Second thing to note is that Campaign War Leader's Body Armor is 8.93% higher ilevel than Columi War Leader's Body Armor, suggesting that they belong to different tiers.

Third, Xenotech War Leader's Body Armor doesn't seem to belong at all.

 

Looking at the item level progression:

51 -> 56 -> 58 -> 61:

+9.80%, +3.57%, +5.17%

 

Is that 4 tiers or 4 difficulties or some combination? This all seems a big mess.

Edited by tkinnunzero
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Flain

Flain

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Anyone else still see the same slight problem in the above?

 

Shouldn't the progression look like this:

EV Story Mode

KP Story Mode

EC Story Mode (after retuning)

EV Hard Mode

KP Hard Mode

EC Hard Mode (after retuning)

EV Nightmare Mode

KP Nightmare Mode

EC Nightmare Mode (why is this missing?)

 

Or maybe EC difficulties are named incorrectly:

EV Story Mode

KP Story Mode

EC Real Story Mode (currently missing)

EV Hard Mode

KP Hard Mode

EC Hard Mode (currently called Story Mode)

EV Nightmare Mode

KP Nightmare Mode

EC Nightmare Mode (currently called Hard Mode)

 

I mean, they all drop same tier 1 loot, just with different palettes and item levels, so what's going on here?

 

There is no Nightmare EC mode at the moment, that will be added Soon™

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Grobluk

Grobluk

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Posted

Or maybe EV and KP are not "real" instances, just something that had to be done fast and shipped when the executives yelled "GET THIS THING OUT OF THE DOOR SO WE CAN START MAKING MONEY".

 

EC is very much a "real" instance, in my mind it is the first one and a good sign for things to come.

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