Okay ill update the links now.

Edit: Done, tested and working! Thanks for heads up

So. I've been experimenting a bit with smash and am slowly getting the hang of it - it's difficult to get rid of all the anni muscle-memory to get anywhere with rage. I feel enourmously squishy compared to anni. I'm interested how it will perform in PvP. Fully augmented, with - I think - 2 or 3 pieces still oboran. I so far have NOT managed to pull a 10k plus smash on NPC. On the other hand... maybe those npc (elite) I'm farming while in queue.... maybe they have some dmg-reduction.

But it's a blast and your guide helped a lot in improving my killspeed. I might need to get me a proper pve gear some time. But I dislike flashpoints/ops... and I lack the credits to just purchase 34 mods. If anyone has a pointer what is worth getting for pve-optimization when transitioning from pure pvp gear to pve - that would be something I'd be really interested in. Like: Would getting 2x pve lightsabers be worth a lot (34 hilts, power crystals, ...)?

So. I've been experimenting a bit with smash and am slowly getting the hang of it - it's difficult to get rid of all the anni muscle-memory to get anywhere with rage. I feel enourmously squishy compared to anni. I'm interested how it will perform in PvP. Fully augmented, with - I think - 2 or 3 pieces still oboran. I so far have NOT managed to pull a 10k plus smash on NPC. On the other hand... maybe those npc (elite) I'm farming while in queue.... maybe they have some dmg-reduction.

 

But it's a blast and your guide helped a lot in improving my killspeed. I might need to get me a proper pve gear some time. But I dislike flashpoints/ops... and I lack the credits to just purchase 34 mods. If anyone has a pointer what is worth getting for pve-optimization when transitioning from pure pvp gear to pve - that would be something I'd be really interested in. Like: Would getting 2x pve lightsabers be worth a lot (34 hilts, power crystals, ...)?

Rage is in fact very tanky. With Cloak of Pain up, u essentially r a tank without a shield generator. An extra 7% all round dr from the tree is pretty nice . How that compares to healing from ani though? Hard to judge and probably unnecessary. You would play rage for what rage does and ani for what ani does dps wise, not dr or healing (unless ur soloing somethingw with a comp).

Defensive wise there is no other change from ani. Cloak of pain is still 20% dr, saber ward does not last longer, same cd on camo, bit shorter undying rage which is very situational nowadays.

In plain pvp gear even with everything popped I think 10k smash would be beyond ur reach, maybe on standard or weak ( or lvl1) mobs XD. They have significantly less dr than elites or champs.

For PVE you will want to get accuracy cap, missing is a far bigger concern than in pvp. The two items which would be the single greatest improvement for uis a MH and an OH hilt. Ull have to contact crafters, im pretty sure they craft it for you for free with mats on any server.

As for PVP, I am not sure how helpful the guide is for you, since there r a lot of different scenarios to keep in mind which r not present in PVE (KBs, slows, stuns, out of range, terrain, objectives etc etc...) I dont do much pvp in fact hardly any at all on my mara, so I am really not the one to ask regarding pvp XD. Rotation wise how to exploit the Cascading power window is going to be very useful for you (short burst phases of a couple gcds) in pvp.

Keep in mind however, that this guide was written from a PVE perspective for PVE and dummy content primarily. Im very happy to see that the guide was of great help to you all the same!

Yes, thanks a bunch - I'll probably first get me a couple of pve weapons then and continue practicing bursting down those elites... they are a bit more lukrative than beating the brains out of the dummy.

two hilts and power crystals instead of the brutalizer and expertise ones should be a good boost. Going to take a look if I can get some mods and enhancements with +acc for them. Thanks for the confirm and pointers.

So... last night I tried Rage. (no creds / mats sunk into pve stuff yet)

MAN, did I breeze though my grind-content after a while. Took some sweet time to get the buttons kind of sorted out, I still mess up often, due to muscle memory.

PvP was a different story. I managed to pull of about the same damage as with my anni, just without all that heal to me and my team. So I ended up with less stats alltogether in the boards, less MVP ofc. I did however have some really successfull 1on2 and even a 1on3 I could decide for myself... If I have 30 stacks when attacking AND get my opener and all those new buttons right in a fight... that is some serious front-loaded burst damage. Ofc I still can't kill any ops heal who knows what he's doing (if no other persone whitebars me by senseless mezz, i.e. damn those rolls, stuns, mezz,... more rolls breaking charge-positioning...) but I'm getting them to use their panic-buttons a lot more than with that constant anni damage (big advantage of anni damage: mezz me all you like, it's gonna hurt anyways!). Now if only there was an "unmovable" buff to ravage making him 'un-knock-backable' while channeling or somesuch. I find myself using ravage more to draw the enemies cc than to actually do damage. Carnage be thanked: that's what they do: wait with cc for a ravage. Really. Some players can't see my stance it seems.

I think that a well played rage mara is probably one of the more dangerous oponents in pvp. However - so far - I feel like I'm failing A LOT. (messing up when to FC and OB ... even smashing without buff sometimes...) AND I am getting stuff like a ~3700 fully buffed smash crits on some (sorcs?) quite often... confusing. It really rains on my parade... Yes, even after all this time I don't know everything about the classes I'm an oldschool nub.

So, thanks again for the guide that explained quite a lot to me.

Some things I need to get right is my openers for pvp (so usually at 0 stacks and 0 ressource at start).

I need to get the high damage up and going quickly while maintaining tollerance for interruptions: stuns, range, knocks, mezz, delay due to taunts... all the little things a dummy don't do.

CH = Charge

DSF = Dual Saber Throw

RET = Retaliation

I always have a prio on VT and RET (if resource makes sense).

To get started agressively into a fight (without 2 min cd): DSF -> CH-> FC -> BA -> RU -> SM -> RV -> clip with FS -> OB -> VS ... and then? Or is this total junk?

Would this Order be better? DSF -> CH -> FC -> BA -> (watch stack for lag (3)) SM -> RU -> RV -> FS -> OB -> VS ... and how would you proceed to get the damage going and keep it up until dead.

You know, I have a feelig that parsing on the dummy for you might no be such a bad idea. You can test diferent opener scenarios like low on fury, almost fury cap etc. Obviously not for numbers sake, but to teach urself how to open and continue. Its also very good for mastering and getting the different burst windows into ur finger tips.

Force crush is ur root on ravage. So if its a slipper opponent like an operative, smash first, then FC then RV then FS. They can roll away however but better than nothing. RV is an extremely powerful move, ur opponents will do the utmost they can to prevent u from landing it. Its best used when u know u will be able to land the full dmg, like stunned target, another melee attacking you, somone already knocked you back and u gap closed right away, etc. Have to be clever with it.

I have recently done some pvp matches in rage since I swappedto a pvp server, and I was surprised to find it working incredibly well still. ON demand no rng burst is pretty golden with some extra splash too. Toped dmg boards every time except for 1 game out of 7 or so? In my lulzy half obroan half arkanian gear haha. Having a bunch of rotational experience in pve probably was of great benefit in pvp, now just need to familiarise myself with the different pvp ralted scenarios (how to counter cds, tricky moves, stuff like that).

As u said, u did the same dmg in rage ALREADY as in ani which u probably have skill cap with? Thats kind of telling me that ur numbers r going to go fair bit higher once u start meastering the spec.

Never open with DT, unless u want to interrupt an objective channel. for 0 stack opener I would do (generally save charge) BA, FC, OB, SM DT or RU (if can hit 2+ then DT), RV FS .... couple assaults after maybe but I find that going berserk in pvp is really not a problem maras get hit a lot lol.

U never need to watch stacks from FC, put in one GCD move after it then u can smash right away.

You know, I have a feelig that parsing on the dummy for you might no be such a bad idea. You can test diferent opener scenarios like low on fury, almost fury cap etc. Obviously not for numbers sake, but to teach urself how to open and continue. Its also very good for mastering and getting the different burst windows into ur finger tips.

Yes, I use elite mobs instead (they give creds) but a dummy might work as well.

Never open with DT, unless u want to interrupt an objective channel. for 0 stack opener I would do (generally save charge) BA, FC, OB, SM DT or RU (if can hit 2+ then DT), RV FS .... couple assaults after maybe but I find that going berserk in pvp is really not a problem maras get hit a lot lol.

 

U never need to watch stacks from FC, put in one GCD move after it then u can smash right away.

I found that I have to watch out not to put FC on targets that die before I get my stacks

The hint with "never open with DT" - I'll consider that. It's also a pretty good hit to 'increase the burst for targets almost dead" I figured. So BA early even though it hits like a wer noodle.

Things I'm aiming at getting done right:

Build up to a MASSIVE burst phase that can burn though lesser heals (with interrupt even more destructive) instead of attempting the anni way of "getting the damage rolling". I feel that it's more promising. The one thing most difficult is: You don't get 3-4 GCD on a target - at least not on a good one - without being... well... any kind of cced. So the whole "on target -> do something -> get back on target -> do some more" needs to work with rage as well. Turret mode players usually ... die. Period. If I can calmly pull off the rage burst, that's it for them. If the move and counter-cc... it becomes a whole different story and so far I still mess up due to much concentration being soaked up by the skills and rotations, stuff that "just happens" in my primary spec. So yes, that definately gives you a HUGE edge. I think my damage might go up by about 25-50% still. It's a feeling but I thing there is an enourmous amount of potential damage to still get out of the spec. Now if only I figure out when NOT to smash (enemy buffs, classes, ...).

Also - I'm curious about 2.10 changes. If any are comming for rage, and how destructive the AE hamering that heal sorcs are getting is going to suck (after all force-camo is THE defensive CC against force damage... it's not going to be usable very often I'm afraid.) Adding perma hamper to perma slow/root is going to *beep* donkey*beep*s. I see it as a move primarily directed against marauders. (All others have either range or slow/root immunity). Might actually be an indirect 'buff' to rages obliterate. But time will tell.

For now it's practise practise practise.

The past few pvp engounters were... well... not satisfying. My damage keeps getting better though and has surpassed the average for anni, I'd say. But I still mess up. And I know it. And I know I could win a lot more 1on1.

Except:

- Assasins / Shadows who know what to do

- Concealments who know what to do

- Pyro PT who know what to do

- Any healer who knows what to do

- Juggernauts who know what to do

- Snipers of any dumbness (they just turret and live longer than I do - I can only get out of los or hope for them to drop a pizza on their keyboard...)

I think if it weren't for OB I'd go back to anni. But then again... how often is it "this one small error" that causes defeat instead of overwhelming victory?

Slight update regarding 2.10 carnage changes on PTS:

Rage no longer reliably outdoes Carnage single target. I was doing some high 3.7k averages. SO essentially roughly on par, however if there is any aoe potntial, Rage will win out. (Talking pure dps numbers and not the utility of globalling someone in pvp haha).

Slight update regarding 2.10 carnage changes on PTS:

 

Rage no longer reliably outdoes Carnage single target. I was doing some high 3.7k averages. SO essentially roughly on par, however if there is any aoe potntial, Rage will win out. (Talking pure dps numbers and not the utility of globalling someone in pvp haha).

So basically - in pvp - rage is all meh then? Since they removed the AE and left it only with a rather annoying way to break any AE mezz and get the AE-Damage reduction... Hm.

Well, I hope there is some 'direction' getting reintroduced to the rage tree before 2.10 goes live:

- no more prime-ae burst

- no more prime-reliable-burst

- not really tougher (I don't even spec UR cd reduction anymore)

- less Fury for predation, because that's needed for stacks

Yep, either they make that Rage tree 'tankier' (wich totally doesn't match the term "Rage") or they could... hm... remove the "AE-Damage-Reduction" aspect from smash in PvP.

Yeah depending on how carnage will be altered further I dont think there will be much reason to go rage in pvp any more. OKay there is a root leap in it, but nothing much attractive and specially unique and powerful in the spec sadly.

I really have my fingers crossed for some constructive change for pvp rage (with maybe a positive impact on rage dps in pve XD).

Making it tough is an okay direcion, but we r primarly supposed to deal dmg in it, not survive ridicolous amounts of dmg incoming like a tank. Bring back auto crit smash all round!

I had never specced Rage on my Mara and I've been playing on and off for 2 years. This guide convinced me to try it, and I have to admit it's good fun. It's also harder to shut down than Carnage in PvP while still being fairly bursty so I'll probably be running it for a while.

So, /bump

Great Guide, but i have a slightly modified opener that i think yields better CD managment.

Frenzy > TST > Leap > Adrenal/Relic > Berserk > Smash > Force Crush > Obliderate > Force Scream > Ravage > Repeat.

I try to avoid using Obliderate outside of a Cascading Power Window for maximum Burst, and sometimes i can get all 3 Ravage Ticks inside the window, a bit of Alacrity might help come 3.0.

I would definately start writing a 3.0 guide on Fury Mara.

Hey, ty for the comment. I am no longer a sub so I asked a buddy of mine to post this in my stead.

Im going to have to say that I don’t agree with ur opener. By using dual throw ur delaying ur all important smash, which is not good. U also get 2 extra rage that gets wasted. On the plus side, u use dual throw earlier than I, which is nice since it’s a hard hitting move. In this case, however, the cons outweigh the pros in my opinion.

Keeping obliterate in the buff window is definitely nice thing to do. But doing so severely restricts ur freedom of choice, since it shares a cd with smash, so next time around the earliest u can use it again, is the 2nd gcd after smash. This is bad cause u will never be able to fit in ravage and get it buffed fully, unless u keep on pushing it off till later. The idea of buffing obliterate is sound, but since ravage hits so dam hard, buffing it once for every 3 obliterates that u could have buffed is worth pushing the latter out of the window. On top of that much better flexibility sub 30% and there is no confusion about ur dominate buff running out b4 u would smash.

I have watched the stream for the warriors and new Fury spec is looking very very promising. Ravage having an 18 sec cd allows us to use it every second window, and force crush in every other since CD is shared. This new ****** move we r getting, Furious Strike, will pretty much be the first move after smash every time, Force crush/Ravage, VT/DS/VS and FS will all come after in that priority. And when we don’t need to BT or just have a free frenzy, we can use it for an auto crit smash during a buff window .

As I see it the rotation will hardly change beyond that. I saw the tooltip for the new berserk for Fury, 4 rage immediately, 8 after over time. I don’t know if we can generate fury stacks while said rage is being generated so that could potentially influence the smash cycle, depending on how long the fury building lockout is. Ravage will also give at least 3 fury while berserk charges r active as I heard on stream. So I suspect the same if not very similar fury cycle will remain. I am not on PTS though, so I can’t speak from personal experience.

In all Fury is looking like a very promising uber burst spec with a lot of potential autocrits (force camo, Raging burst and Smash separate CD). It also retains the 15% surge buff to everything unlike Annihilation (measly 5% (?!?!) to bleeds now). I would not be surprised if the single target dps gap would be significantly narrowed down as a result.