Yes and we are also talking about a developers first ever attempt at launching an MMO.

 

I had literally 0 bugs with any single player Bioware game I have ever played, excluding failing to sign in to that console thingy on the Mass Effect menu screen.

 

It does sound like people are demanding things work pretty much 100%, given that the game is working pretty damn well as it stands as a whole.

I am not demanding that it work perfectly at all. I am saying if EV is not ready to be put on live, if it is buggy as hell, work on it and put out the quality product you refer to from Bioware. I am saying work on making content you do have out, in this case EV, work properly BEFORE putting out new group based content.

We dont need 4 new bosses in Karraga's Palace, we need the operation that is considered complete to work as designed. IMO.

I am not demanding that it work perfectly at all. I am saying if EV is not ready to be put on live, if it is buggy as hell, work on it and put out the quality product you refer to from Bioware. I am saying work on making content you do have out, in this case EV, work properly BEFORE putting out new group based content.

 

We dont need 4 new bosses in Karraga's Palace, we need the operation that is considered complete to work as designed. IMO.

Well yes, but if I was to play Devil's advocate I would be disgruntled about a lack of endgame content.

It goes back to my original point which was that there is no reason not to release content, just as much as there is no reason for BW to stop working on existing bugs.

Unless however there is some fundamental flaw causing current raids to not function properly which will carry over into new content.

Well yes, but if I was to play Devil's advocate I would be disgruntled about a lack of endgame content.

 

It goes back to my original point which was that there is no reason not to release content, just as much as there is no reason for BW to stop working on existing bugs.

 

Unless however there is some fundamental flaw causing current raids to not function properly which will carry over into new content.

The end game content isnt working well AT ALL. If they put out more content like EV the game is going to be in a very very very bad place. The game has plenty of end game content after 1 month, problem is it isnt working well at all. I am telling you right now, if Karraga's Palace's 4 new bosses are as buggy as EV is atm, this game will be in trouble.

Edit: I am not talking aobut small bugs, I am talking aobut bosses not spawning or being locked out of the instance, having to reset it and clear trash all over again after each wipe. We all expect bugs, but these types of bugs are effecting the enjoyment of the game.

Did ev today and had to reset twice due to bugs, probably an hour wasted on thrash there. The speeders also failed to appear once. Also died because of the second boss bugs twice. And what is up with distrubuting loot randomly? There is an high chance of people getting stuff they have no use of.

Were unable to finish the last boss. Once we got him to 3% and he just disappered. Also shield not disappering as it should at least once.

so you saying youve completed nightmare modes?

 

your a better player then me then coz i cant get past bugged bosses

You realize that the only reason 8man nightmare mode Soa hasn't been killed yet is because mind traps have an unintentional large amount of HP (200k) on nightmare mode, right? And it's being fixed in next week's patch.

Not releasing additional content for a new MMO is a horrible decision, especially as more of your playerbase is beginning to hit max level.

These bugs did not exist during beta.... What does it take to get it through your heads...? When it goes from a few thousand ppl to nearly a million people these bugs find their way into the game.

And I beleive the doctors have spoken to how they regret not having a much larger and longer BETA. Again, the fact that it wasnt there in BETA means nothing, the only thing that matters is how they handle it now that it is there.

You realize that the only reason 8man nightmare mode Soa hasn't been killed yet is because mind traps have an unintentional large amount of HP (200k) on nightmare mode, right? And it's being fixed in next week's patch.

 

Not releasing additional content for a new MMO is a horrible decision, especially as more of your playerbase is beginning to hit max level.

I love the hyperbole, like people are saying no new content. No one is saying to not release new content...no one. What is horrible for an mmo is end game content that doesnt work, releasing more content doesn't fix that. Put out quality content, not more that doesn't work.

I love the hyperbole, like people are saying no new content. No one is saying to not release new content...no one. What is horrible for an mmo is end game content that doesnt work, releasing more content doesn't fix that. Put out quality content, not more that doesn't work.

Imagine for a second: a multi-million dollar game developer with multiple different teams that work on separate tasks. Like, for instance, one works on bug fixing and the other works on creating new content.

No wait, that would make too much sense, obviously these studios just lump everyone into the same pile so whenever they set forth to do one thing, everything else gets sidelined.

Imagine for a second: a multi-million dollar game developer with multiple different teams that work on separate tasks. Like, for instance, one works on bug fixing and the other works on creating new content.

 

No wait, that would make too much sense, obviously these studios just lump everyone into the same pile so whenever they set forth to do one thing, everything else gets sidelined.

Love your hyperbole's, is this your favorite figure of speech?

Again, you fail to grasp the difference between continuing to develop content and having to put it onto live. They can continue to develop new content, that does not mean that it is ready to go live.

If they continue to put out content like EV, this game will be in serious problems. It doesn't matter if they put out 4 new bosses in Karraga's Palace, if it works the way EV is working....game is in trouble.

Though most of the things listed in this thread are valid and deserving of a quick fix, I'm surprised no one mentioned the two most urgent fixes this game needs: Error 9000 and Error 1003.

Just do a quick search in the Customer Service forums to see how many ppl are suffering from these.

And what's worst: a good part of those ppl can't even PLAY the game. Now thats something that should be prioritized over everything and fixed asap, imho.

Yea you know there are multiple teams of ppl. Some work on graphics, some on class balance, some on new content ect ect. Content teams job is to design and make new content, other teams have their own job. Teams do not stop working bc one team is putting something out.

Also on a side note WAR stopped putting out new content patches and focused solely on bug fixes and class balance and that turned out poorly since ppl got real tired real quick of doing the same thing for months at a time.

Are you saying the peope that design the content don't take part in fixing it?

In a large software company like Bioware, Blizzard, Microsoft, Google, etc., developer and tester are two different positions with very different career progressions. Testers are the ones who ID the bugs, developers create new content and fix bugs based on what the testers tell them.

I've interviewed for both positions, and the questions they ask and things they look for are very different.

Also, I'm guessing that hard/nightmare mode bugs are lower priority than bugs that cause client crashes or UI issues due to the number of people affected. The bug that affects 200k people gets more attention than the one affecting 1000. With a finite number of testers and developers, that's the way it goes.

I still don't get all the hypersensitiveness. Really. These bugs will be fixed. It's in the companies best interest to do so. They don't want to lose customers. They especially don't want to lose the type of customer who is a raider. The kind of person who is able and willing to put forth lots of their own personal time to play said game. A solid customer.

So getting all up in arms because there is new content coming in the next couple of months is ridiculous. Did it occur to some folks that some of those sweeping bug fixes will be a part of that content patch? That we pretty much get a bug-fix patch every single week because the bug-fix department is working their butts off to fix things that are broken? Maybe the bugs are more difficult to fix then they first appeared and so they'd like to get something else out for raiders to do while the first batch of bugs from the previous OP are being fixed.

MMO's have bugs all the time. Some of them do minor to nearly non-existent things, but when you go to correct them, it breaks something else in the process. Something that might actually have been important.

It's a very time consuming and tedious process and you should be glad that they are putting a lot of effort into fixing what's broken, not screaming because it's not fixed as fast as you'd like.

You don't catch flies with Vinegar.

Love your hyperbole's, is this your favorite figure of speech?

 

Again, you fail to grasp the difference between continuing to develop content and having to put it onto live. They can continue to develop new content, that does not mean that it is ready to go live.

 

If they continue to put out content like EV, this game will be in serious problems. It doesn't matter if they put out 4 new bosses in Karraga's Palace, if it works the way EV is working....game is in trouble.

I think what's happening here, is that you are failing to grasp the concept that these are two totally different, distinct processes - that of developing new content, and that of correcting existing content. Apples and oranges, it seems that you are intent on comparing.

I understand your opinion that EV shouldn't have been released in its current state, and I am not going to debate that one way or another. However, new content should not be halted because a totally separate team hasn't completed the corrections for existing content.

It sounds to me as if you're making an assumption that new content will be as buggy as EV is now. It could be, but there's no basis for that.

One of the problems that we had in BETA was that we didn't have enough high level characters to test a lot of the high end content. Every time they tried to give us high level characters, they ran into technical difficulties until we simply ran out of time to test. This, along with the necessity for character wipes with most new builds really prevented testing more thoroughly with a larger playerbase. Therefore, it's not surprising that EV is buggy.

Now BW doesn't have that problem. The PTR is open to the public. There is no selection process limiting those interested in testing from participating. If you're concerned about the bugginess of new content, I wholeheartedly encourage you to copy your character over to help prevent bugginess in the future.

I agree.

Move some of the content-creation people to bug fixing.

Besides, why make more Operations and high end flashpoints when most people havent even completed or step foot into the current ones?

Doesnt make sense to cater to the 0.05%...

In a large software company like Bioware, Blizzard, Microsoft, Google, etc., developer and tester are two different positions with very different career progressions. Testers are the ones who ID the bugs, developers create new content and fix bugs based on what the testers tell them.

 

.

this is exactly what I have said this whole post. I really doubt that the people designing and creating the content are removed from taking part in fixing the design flaws, especially major ones that are present in EV.

It sounds to me as if you're making an assumption that new content will be as buggy as EV is now. It could be, but there's no basis for that.

 

One of the problems that we had in BETA was that we didn't have enough high level characters to test a lot of the high end content. Every time they tried to give us high level characters, they ran into technical difficulties until we simply ran out of time to test. This, along with the necessity for character wipes with most new builds really prevented testing more thoroughly with a larger playerbase. Therefore, it's not surprising that EV is buggy.

 

Now BW doesn't have that problem. The PTR is open to the public. There is no selection process limiting those interested in testing from participating. If you're concerned about the bugginess of new content, I wholeheartedly encourage you to copy your character over to help prevent bugginess in the future.

What I am saying is you don't need new content when players cannot enjoy the content that is already there. MMOs do not need to push out new content just to say they are putting out new content, it needs to be content that players are ready to enjoy. Players are not having an enjoyable experience in EV right now..its not working well.

As I have said before, we will see with the new bosses in Karrag's Palace. What would your take on this be if Karraga's Palace is as buggy as EV right now? My take is the game will start to lose tons of subs if they put out shoddy end game as EV has been so far.

Again, not talking about small quirky bugs, talking about bosses not spawning and not being able to enter the instance after a wipe and having to reset and reclear trash after every attempt.

As a software developer I can 100% say that it is a developers job to fix their own freaking code, so please stop using this argument in this thread. They have testing departments to "find bugs" not to fix them.

Yeah, it is just seemed like a horrible philosophy to have the people who design the content not participate in fixing it. Just silly, but if it is true, kinda explains why it is not likely to be fixed quickly or properly.

Hello there,

We have updated 1.1 patch notes in the Public Test Server forum. Some of the issues you have listed are mentioned there:

Operations

 

Eternity Vault

 

• The Ancient Pylons now reset correctly if not solved within the allotted time.
  
• Soa’s mind traps unintentionally had 200k health in Nightmare Mode. This amount has been reduced significantly.
  
• The duration of the Penalty of Destiny effect in the Infernal Council encounter has been increased to 1 minute. Players are unable to assist other players in their fight for the duration of this effect.
  

 

Karagga’s Palace

 

1. Reduced the damage of Bonethrasher’s Overhead Smash attack and reduced the distance players are knocked back by his Backhand attack in Hard Mode. This gives players more room to avoid being knocked into the pit.
   
2. Bonethrasher no longer attacks players immediately after they fall into his pit when re-entering after being defeated, allowing players to regroup before engaging.
   

I agree that bugs should be a top priority if they are keeping people from completing the content at a appropriate level, but as it is we need more content to fill up our weekly play time.

What is the point of new Raid content when it will just drop the same gear (columni, rakata) anyways?

Endgame has no amazing drops other than the occasional speeder (yawn) which makes me really wanna keep doing it once I get the Rakata gear (which btw is hardly better than the Columni anyways and many are just sidegrades).

The itemization in this game is garbage.

What is the point of new Raid content when it will just drop the same gear (columni, rakata) anyways?

 

Endgame has no amazing drops other than the occasional speeder (yawn) which makes me really wanna keep doing it once I get the Rakata gear (which btw is hardly better than the Columni anyways and many are just sidegrades).

 

The itemization in this game is garbage.

Thats what endgame in MMOs has been since they were invented. Sorry you don't enjoy it, but I don't do it only for the gear. I do it for the interaction with my guild as well as the gear. So when I am fully geared and waiting for new content, I go to hang with friends in my guild etc.

Thats what endgame in MMOs has been since they were invented. Sorry you don't enjoy it, but I don't do it only for the gear. I do it for the interaction with my guild as well as the gear. So when I am fully geared and waiting for new content, I go to hang with friends in my guild etc.

You sound like someone who has been playing MMO's since Wrath of the Lick King. Im sure you have hardly even played anything other than WoW if you believe the nonsense you just puked out.

EQ1 was nothing like that. EQ2 wasnt either. Rift also took way longer to gear up and had truly epic weapons from the last raid bosses. Even LOTRO took 10x as long to gear up at endgame than SWTOR does. Its ridiculous

In EQ1 There were more juicy items than you could ever hope to obtain which was great because it gave me something to look forward to everytime I went.

In SWTOR after 2 weeks of EV HM I'm in almost full rakata. If Bioware wants raiders to get bored extremely quickly because loot is way to easy to obtain then they are succeeding at it because I'm already getting bored.

The endgame is terrible.