Nope, you're wrong. If they want pure entertainment, they won't do the same boring ops over and over again. Go out watch a movie instead.

What raiders want is a piece of equipment that makes them feel an edge better than others, and you aren't expecting we all get that superior feeling automatically for 15 bucks a month? Come on.

 

 

 

Ok, so what? U paid 1mil for a fraction of an equipment. Now with good luck, u pay 1 mil for a full piece (1mil repair cost is by far exaggerating). Whats the big deal?

I've been a raider. Few are motivated by gear. Most are motivated by the challenge. Not the tedium... the challenge.

Are you a raider or are you writing from a position of ignorance, conjecture, and assumption?

1 death costs me 25k now.. it used to take 3-4 deaths to rack up that much.

An ops group i was guesting in today asked if I would mind healing for them while they try HM EC for the first time. I said i couldn't afford it, I had 75k to my name after buying my hazmat ear today, so we did SM instead...

I've been a raider. Few are motivated by gear. Most are motivated by the challenge. Not the tedium... the challenge.

 

Are you a raider?

I doubt anyone would do the operations if they didn't drop loot

"I do it for the challenge"

No you don't.

No one does.

I doubt anyone would do the operations if they didn't drop loot

 

"I do it for the challenge"

 

No you don't.

 

No one does.

So.. you're not a raider so you're writing from a position of ignorance, conjecture and assumption? Thanks for your opinion. It's all you have and it's just as relevant to the discussion as the turd my dog just laid out in the yard.

Gamers are per definition lame and want to progress with the least effort. I remember the time in WoW where we got to prepare for a week to do 1 raid.

How come noone complain about 1mil amorings on GTN?

Because everyone wants to ignore those facts.

Just like when you needed to get 40 people together to actually get any gear in that game.

No one will mention that.

No one will acknowledge that.

Why? Because they don't care for the obvious true statements and demand to be given stuff easily without working for it.

Also my new sig sums up the people in these forums.

(I guarantee half these people just sit on the fleet complaining rather then play the game)

That is their choice. There may be an MMO out there that will allow them to do only the "fun" things or it may be that MMO's may not be for them, and another type of game may suit them better.

I agree that dailies are boring, but I also know they are an easy source of credits which I need to be able to do the "fun" things I enjoy.

I see a lot of posters in this thread simply refusing to even entertain the thought of doing dailies or finding a way to earn the credits to afford the higher repair costs. The expectation to be able to do only the "fun" stuff and will not have to do the "boring kind" of "work", or the flat out refusal to do the "work" that an MMO generally requires, is what many would refer to as an "entitled attitude".

Did you even read what I wrote, despite quoting it? Read again. It seems you haven't understood a bit of it. Talking about being entitled, you're entitled to your opinion, that doesn't make you right though.

So.. you're not a raider so you're writing from a position of ignorance, conjecture and assumption? Thanks for your opinion. It's all you have and it's just as relevant to the discussion as the turd my dog just laid out in the yard.

Uhm, I am a raider, I do it for the loot so I can gear up my toon, my alts, and my companions.

And make money off the gtn for myself and my guild.

How am I ignorant?

Uhm, I am a raider, I do it for the loot so I can gear up my toon, my alts, and my companions.

And make money off the gtn for myself and my guild.

How am I ignorant?

Look at your signature. That basically answers your question.

Look at your signature. That basically answers your question.

Thats just facts and common sense.

Uhm, I am a raider, I do it for the loot so I can gear up my toon, my alts, and my companions.

 

And make money off the gtn for myself and my guild.

 

How am I ignorant?

Sorry, I don't believe that you're being truthful. I don't believe there are many raiding guilds that would keep someone with your attitude around long enough to gear up a main, let alone alts.

Sorry, I don't believe that you're being truthful. I don't believe there are many raiding guilds that would keep someone with your attitude around long enough to gear up a main, let alone alts.

I am being truthful and you can't accept the fact that I can manage and adapt to the situation at hand.

For raiding, its obvious, its a Risk V Reward game. You make the risk to run something new and hard, and you get the reward for beating them with new gear and such.

There is no such thing as Risk V Challenge. Thats just stupid.

Also, yeah, people deal with me, infact, we even steal guild members from other guilds.

Why? Because we have common sense and we know how to do things.

We teach others how to play and what they need to pay attention to.

We show them how to max their dps while still having fun and screwing around.

We also have a guild bank with tons of credits and items and crafting mats to help people craft new things.

We supply our own mods too from what we get to new members.

You don't need to believe me, or what anyone says because you live in your own world where everything must be spoon fed to you.

We work to achieve what we have now, we learn things the hard ways and we pay the price. We've ran dailies, heroics, hard modes, story modes, and even nightmare. Why? For the challenge? HA NO. For the loot.

Key word, we worked. MMO is about grinding, not fun. You want fun? Go somewhere else

We don't whine, we laugh it off and yell at ramino for fun (his reactions are the best)

And btw, I am the Guild Leader, and my guildmates love me.

Thats just facts and common sense.

Keep reading what people write in this thread and pretend it's something else. Good for you, no-one can stop you doing that.

Does it help this discussion in any way? No.

And you're pretty alone in your negative stance on this, as is obvious.

You want fun? Go somewhere else

There's nothing wrong with wanting a game to be fun. Not all game are only "fun". Some require "work". MMO's are among these. The very nature of an MMO is all about "work". No one should expect an MMO to be all "fun" and no "work". That's just not the way these games work. You can cry "It's just a game, I shouldn't have to work" all you want, but that does not change the fact that MMO's are all about work. Should we all get 50's upon creation because, after all, leveling is work and some people only play for the "fun" end game? Should we all get campaign or dread guard gear because getting that gear requires effort and "work"?

 

If all you want to do is the "fun" stuff, then there are plenty of other game genres out there that are just the "fun" stuff and do not require the "work" that MMO's require.

 

You can call me an elitist, but I consider myself a casual, with very limited play time. Recognizing that an MMO, by its very nature, requires "work" and being willing to put forth some effort in order to be able to enjoy the "fun" stuff does NOT make me an elitist.

No we are saying that we want the content to be enjoyable. i am not saying im not willing to put the time in to level or gear myself. That is two totally seperate issues. But is a mmo not massive multiplayer online... yet for 50 levels i do the work to level myself almost exclusively solo through tediously mind numbing activities at times (yes the cutscenes can be entertaining). Then once max level I finnaly get to where the multiplayer starts that i pay for by the nature of the game which is where the "fun" comes from (wz, raids, flashpoints) but in order to do half the multiplayer activities i pay for you are now forced back in to the tediously dull singleplayer aspect.

Thats not entitled i pay for a mmo to play with other players in a online world. i can "work" by grinding out dungeons over and over for my time to get my gear. but the multiplayer activities are what i pay for and want to do. so the work to grind out gear, dungeons, and wz's and work as a team, have fun on vent / guild chat, etc is where things should be in a mmo.

logging in to run boring dailies solo for 1.5 -2 hours a day just so i get one day of raids in instead of running fp's and wz's and then a day of raids is unacceptable. if i wanted the tedious single player grind dailies style quests i would be playing skyrim, fable or some other platform single player rpg.

hell eq1 hell levels grinding for days on end in one camp is more in line with what you pay for in a mmo because at the very least your grinding out in a multiplayer setting. instead of a single player setting where you might wave at a guy running next to you....

but yeah im ignorant and entitled i suppose that i want my massive multiplayer online rpg you be multiplayer for my time spent in. If i wanted a massive singleplayer online rpg then youre right grinding dailies every day is exactly what the games about and that work is needed.

single player time sinks in a multiplayer game does not = what a large chunk of the mmo community wants to pay for for endgame... or even bought into...

I am being truthful and you can't accept the fact that I can manage and adapt to the situation at hand.

 

For raiding, its obvious, its a Risk V Reward game. You make the risk to run something new and hard, and you get the reward for beating them with new gear and such.

 

There is no such thing as Risk V Challenge. Thats just stupid.

 

Also, yeah, people deal with me, infact, we even steal guild members from other guilds.

 

Why? Because we have common sense and we know how to do things.

 

We teach others how to play and what they need to pay attention to.

 

We show them how to max their dps while still having fun and screwing around.

 

We also have a guild bank with tons of credits and items and crafting mats to help people craft new things.

 

We supply our own mods too from what we get to new members.

 

You don't need to believe me, or what anyone says because you live in your own world where everything must be spoon fed to you.

 

We work to achieve what we have now, we learn things the hard ways and we pay the price. We've ran dailies, heroics, hard modes, story modes, and even nightmare. Why? For the challenge? HA NO. For the loot.

 

Key word, we worked. MMO is about grinding, not fun. You want fun? Go somewhere else

 

We don't whine, we laugh it off and yell at ramino for fun (his reactions are the best)

 

And btw, I am the Guild Leader, and my guildmates love me.

i think you must be the most boring guild leader that ever existed if this is what you believe. Most of us that run fp's, ops, raids, whatever do it for the experience. yeah the loot along the way is whats nice but the team aspect, great conversations, that moment you're guildy decides to leroy jenkins and you survive, etc thats what we play for.

playing for the work to work after work is not the experience we pay for and desire or want (ie dailies every bloody day)

and i dont think we are asking to never ever have to do dailies but when the time spent in dailies equals or exceeds the time spent doing the fun content that we enjoy then its time for us to leave but if you want to pay to work so you can work somemore and thats what you enjoy then massive repairs, and massive time sinks keeping you stuck in tedious content is all yours...

i think you must be the most boring guild leader that ever existed if this is what you believe. Most of us that run fp's, ops, raids, whatever do it for the experience. yeah the loot along the way is whats nice but the team aspect, great conversations, that moment you're guildy decides to leroy jenkins and you survive, etc thats what we play for.

 

playing for the work to work after work is not the experience we pay for and desire or want (ie dailies every bloody day)

 

and i dont think we are asking to never ever have to do dailies but when the time spent in dailies equals or exceeds the time spent doing the fun content that we enjoy then its time for us to leave but if you want to pay to work so you can work somemore and thats what you enjoy then massive repairs, and massive time sinks keeping you stuck in tedious content is all yours...

Tell me an mmo where you don't have to work for your gear and I will laugh and call you a liar unless you mean this game where it hands you 2 free sets of 50 armor (which I believe shouldn't happen because HMs and SM Ops can be done in greens)

There's nothing wrong with wanting a game to be fun. Not all game are only "fun". Some require "work". MMO's are among these. The very nature of an MMO is all about "work". No one should expect an MMO to be all "fun" and no "work". That's just not the way these games work. You can cry "It's just a game, I shouldn't have to work" all you want, but that does not change the fact that MMO's are all about work. Should we all get 50's upon creation because, after all, leveling is work and some people only play for the "fun" end game? Should we all get campaign or dread guard gear because getting that gear requires effort and "work"?

A load of CRAP. The so called "work" you are refering to is leveling up. The process of leveling up in itself is fun because it comes with a story that you are playing through. And even the grindy bits themselves have targets & objectives to aspire to.

The "work" you are putting in has a real purpose that is a core part of the game (and most of the time it is fun - otherwise the game is a failure). There are rewards and a sense of achievement at the end.

Why do we do class quests? To progress through the story and level up which in turn gives us access to better gear and higher level quests. There is a clear line of progression that takes you somewhere and gives you something in return for your hard "work"

Im happy to grind dailies in order to have a target bank balance of 5 million credits because that is a target i set of my choosing. I set that target for whatever reason (i want to buy something fancy from the GTN/legacy, i want to send credits to my alt to make things quicker, or im simply scrooge mcduck). Having set the target I can work to that target and have a sense of achievement that my grindy work has accomplished something.

The sense of satisfaction of having accomplished the target (whether set by myself or as part of the game) is in fact FUN.

You yourself have admitted that grinding dailies is boring and repetitive. (especially when you are sufficiently geared that you dont even have to pay much attention).

being forced to grind (work) for credits (a boring and repititive act) in order to be able to afford the repairs after a FP or ops has absolutely no purpose/target/achievement by iteself. Am i supposed to feel good after a week of grinding that I can FINALLY afford to run a NM op without the fear of going bankrupt?

That to me is no different from going to the office everyday so that I can get my paycheck which is then used to pay for my house, car, food, etc.

A game is (or rather must be) 100% pure FUN & ENTERTAINMENT. Any and all effort/work involved in the game must be fun and entertaining. Otherwise the game has lost its' reason d'etre.

Translated - I made something up to sound grandeous but when called out change the topic.

^^

If anyone reads the thread and been here from the beginning there is a lot of people pulling a red herring.

Translated - I made something up to sound grandeous but when called out change the topic.

Well, your translator is broken. I stand by what I said. Literally. Feel free to check. I now have a game to get back to, so I wish you the best finding fault in my assertion.

Well, your translator is broken. I stand by what I said. Literally. Feel free to check. I now have a game to get back to, so I wish you the best finding fault in my assertion.

The "Oh crap, I have been found out" escape.

By lent, see ya later when you try to weasel your way back in.

The "Oh crap, I have been found out" escape.

By lent, see ya later when you try to weasel your way back in.

Except I have not been found out.

I told you to check the other threads. Which you refuse to do, which is not my fault.

Overwhelming majority.

I've only been playing for a few months. I have 4 level 50s and several others, but I have yet to complete more than a few flashpoints or ops. People are hostile about new players because of the costs to repair. I can't really afford them either, so I just don't do them. One solution would be to eliminate damage in instanced zones, like warzones. Then it might be more noob friendly out there.

as far as i know you dont get damage from pvp.

Another case of bioware preferring pvp over pve? maybe... i dont pvp so i cant see it from their perspective

But it is completely noob friendly out there.

All those random drops of tionese or other drops you don't need, you can sell those for a lot of credits and a new 50 shouldn't have a huge repair bill in tionese or recruit. Infact, I believe its less then 5k.

Another thing is also the dailies out there are not just for credits, those daily comms are completely useful. Why? Rakata Earpiece and Implants as well as Dread or Campaign relics!

So while tedious and boring it maybe, its only a chore if people make it a chore and only as long as people make it long.

Lemme ask ya this, Sir Defender of the EA... how many times between Patch 1.2 and Patch 1.7 did you ever tell to anyone - friend, acquaintence, guildy, forum post, or bug post - that the repair costs were too damn LOW?

Well, personally speaking, I wasn't even aware that the repair costs were not performing as intended. You see, even though I hate spending in-game currency in any game and tend to be a hoarder, when I started playing I accepted things like repair costs, mod extract costs, travels costs, and the like for what they were and was not keeping a spreadsheet of how much money I tossed away every time I went to repair my gear, whether it was after a death or not. I know that with each upgrade to gear I made, it cost me more and more to repair, especially after one of those rare deaths that occurred.

Now, we have heard from others that just as a throwaway comment heard about differing repair costs, and thought it strange, but didn't really think of anything beyond that. Most likely, this is the reason it took so long to realize that the repair costs were not working as intended. For players like myself that don't pay much attention to costs didn't even realize we were getting a bargain, and for those that realized that there were some disparities either did not investigate further to realize something was bugged, or did and began to report it to BW and hence the bug now got fixed.

Personally, I think all bugs in any game should be on the Fixing list, so I don't need to make a QQ thread to specify one bug over another, and I am sure there are many others who agree. We would rather just report bugs and go on our way, trusting that the devs will investigate and make their priority list and continue to work on the game. You see, most of us don't feel the need to constantly QQ about the game.

In terms of bugs or features, anyone remember the /getdown bug? That was a benefit to players, but I didn't see anyone complaining about that when it was fixed.

Ironically you call me an elitist at one point in time, when i'm still the one willing to run and teach people how to do fp's, while you sit there and go "i'm not going to teach people **** because then i'll wipe, i'm not going to run, i only want good people if i do run" who's got the elitist attitude again?

Exactly - nothing is changing about the way I play this game, nor is my guild changing anything we do. Ultimately, complaining about virtual currency is kind of silly when there are so many good aspects about this game that still makes it fun and less grindy to play than many other MMOs. Again, This is an MMO, it will still be grindy, that is what the genre is about and part of making money is grinding. Fortunately, BW has made a game where you really don't have to grind all that much to be swimming in virtual currency.

I believe you, and I agree that they haven't found a good compromise. How it was implemented makes it worse. I think you would agree though that the dissatisfaction of the "no increase" folks outweighs the satisfaction of the "yes, increase" advocates.

Yes, but it still remains that the devs need to do things in the game to keep the various parts balanced, even if it isn't popular with the majority of players. Again, whether we think an in game economy is a real economy or not, it is a major part of any MMO and in order to sustain the game and player interest things must be done to ensure a viable economy in game. I don't think that anyone would disagree that gold sinks (like taxes) are a PIA, but ultimately a necessary evil to ensure the game operates smoothly and can offer different players different ways to play. If the gold sinks are not effective, then they either need to change to be effective or other aspects of the game need to change to make it harder to make in game currency. Either solution will be unpopular with players.

BJ