Hello everyone!

 

Firstly I will state I am a hardcore PVP'er, it is all I do and have been doing for the majority of my time playing this game and others. I now have 11 max level characters which were leveled through a mixture of PVE (Questing and occasional FP) and PVP but I don't enjoy the process of leveling through PVE content. I don't understand how fighting scripted enemies in predictable fights could possibly be entertaining after playing PVP with its unpredictable enemies and dynamic fights. So I was wondering, and I don't mean to cause any offense to anyone in asking this, but how and why do you find it enjoyable?

 

That said I have done a couple of operations, mostly pugged but one time with a PVP guild I was in (We all ran it in PVP gear haha), and especially with the longer ones such as TFB I got incredibly bored about half way through. There was a measure of enjoyment in there, but what are the things you do to make it really live for you?

 

And I understand that PVP'ers and PVE'ers seem to have an aggressive air between the two, I personally have called PVE'ers carebears and made jokes about them as if they were a strange people. Really though I respect everyone's right to play the game as they see fit and mean no offense <3 all you carebears out there . In all seriousness though the vast majority of the population are in fact PVE players so I feel like there must be something there that make it so popular, and perhaps I may be missing out on something due to my own ignorance?

 

Thanks!

Personally the non-operations PvE in this game is a bit insultingly easy for my tastes. Storymodes too to a lesser extent. I enjoy walking into a difficult boss, that punishes *********** up and the process of modifying strategy until we can kill it. The rampant insults and banter between the other ops members adds to the fun too.

 

Well designed PvE bosses will force you play differently than you do for others while the dull ones are the full-on carebear "I am fighting a scripted AI" fights. Grob'thok for example is incredibly dull and you would have to try very hard to fail.

 

You can boil down PvP to burst, sustained, heals, kiting, LoS'ing and target switching. These are all present in PvE too just in different ways and different magnitudes. Thing is, there's no difficulty setting for pvp. You don't hit a switch and only fight bads. Especially in swtor you're put up against a motley crew of terribads, mediocre players and the best people on the server and so are the other team. Sometimes you will randomly get crushed where generally in pve if you get utterly destroyed you kind of saw it coming.

 

As to PvP vs PvE. I enjoy both, but one is strategy and one is tactics. They are very different experiences. The general lack of content in pvp does however make it about as monotonous as farm-status pve at times.

 

(I don't just mean lack of new warzones, more frequent substantial balances would at least shake up the meta. )

Edited February 11, 2014 by CaptainApop

I do actually both PVP and PVE and would find it rather boring to do only one of both.

I'd categorize raids into three different types:

 

• Progressing:
  That's content my raid group is actually trying to clear.
  For new raid content fun is finding out about the boss mechanics and evolve the tactics ourself.
  For hardmode/nightmare it is fleshing out the tactics and to improve as a team until we master a boss.
  
• Raids to gear up:
  Raids we do regularly to get better gear. It's routine spiced up with jokes and smalltalk in TS.
  
• Fun Raids:
  Raids done to chill, maybe equip a twink or two and laugh a lot. We create our own level of difficulty by trying to creativly kill certain raid members or maybe wipe in an as absurd way as possible, completly ignoring mechanics, pulling as muss adds as we think we might handle or even more, doing 8/16 man raids with as small groups as possible. Such things. We are not the most disciplined lot .
  

 

Sometimes I do some PUG raids to get acquainted to other people and guilds and to pick up some promissing players for our guild (of course only those without a guild ).

 

All in all for me it's the people of my guild and friends that make raids fun.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Vanarion

Erm, because you can play it as a game, without depending on anyone else, and enjoy the story without having to be good enough not to be killed by some kid who spends gazillion hours a week to become professional at the art of mouse-click killing and gear-mongering? Because, you know, it takes some over 30 seconds to just rotate the view to see who the heck is shooting at you and another 20 sec to target.... With an absence of skill like that PvP would be neither possible, nor enjoyable. While the PvE is doable and fun. Cause, you know, the story.... Edited February 11, 2014 by DomiSotto

I don't play PvE for fights. 'Nuff said.

 

I'm a story player. I play solely for story, for nothing else. The rest is a nice bonus for me.

Hello everyone!

 

Firstly I will state I am a hardcore PVP'er, it is all I do and have been doing for the majority of my time playing this game and others. I now have 11 max level characters which were leveled through a mixture of PVE (Questing and occasional FP) and PVP but I don't enjoy the process of leveling through PVE content. I don't understand how fighting scripted enemies in predictable fights could possibly be entertaining after playing PVP with its unpredictable enemies and dynamic fights. So I was wondering, and I don't mean to cause any offense to anyone in asking this, but how and why do you find it enjoyable?

 

That said I have done a couple of operations, mostly pugged but one time with a PVP guild I was in (We all ran it in PVP gear haha), and especially with the longer ones such as TFB I got incredibly bored about half way through. There was a measure of enjoyment in there, but what are the things you do to make it really live for you?

 

And I understand that PVP'ers and PVE'ers seem to have an aggressive air between the two, I personally have called PVE'ers carebears and made jokes about them as if they were a strange people. Really though I respect everyone's right to play the game as they see fit and mean no offense <3 all you carebears out there . In all seriousness though the vast majority of the population are in fact PVE players so I feel like there must be something there that make it so popular, and perhaps I may be missing out on something due to my own ignorance?

 

Thanks!

 

Easy, it is way better than most of media and even books today, playing with family/friends make fun environment and last but not least I take it as rest time not race/sport time.

Most of casual PvEers do same I suppose.

Challenge and self prove in game is not so worth it anymore when you have RL ones.

Progressive PvE players have similar attitude as PvP ones - but they go for tactics and execution, when play come close to a group dance.

As there are those that like to do group dances, there are those that like to play some football.

And much more like to relax watching some dances or sports (reading books, listening music, watching movies or play game just for relax).

I am a pve player, i am only pvping for gear.

 

To your question "what makes pve enjoyable":

 

- Playing with friends

-Thinking about tactics, improving your playstyle, learning bosstactic

- better equipment

-joy when killing an encounter, Progression

 

I think you suggest that pvp is harder than pve because in pve fights are scripted. This is true, encounters follow a certain script that tells the boss what to do unlike in pvp where your opponent could do smth. you wouldnt await. Nevertheless pvp is not harder when you compare it to Nim operations. Of course when you pug for tfb 16 sm it is boring even hm is boring. Most pvp players think pve is boring because they only compare it to sm or hm. If you want to know what pve is about try nightmares youll find a challenge in these fights especially bosses like Styrak, Warlords. But ofc these fights are also scripted so you wont experience a "suprise moment" when you learned the fights, still they are challenging.

The general lack of content in pvp does however make it about as monotonous as farm-status pve at times.

This.

 

I'm a puzzle person. I like the complicated mechanics of Operations. I also appreciate the reward aspect of the gear grind. It's tedious but... oooh! shiny! The social aspect makes our farm-status EV HM runs super fun. The easy-mode ops also let us try out an off-spec or undergeared alt.

 

I'm not how true this TOR dev gem is: "PvP players are happy as long as they have somebody to kill". For me, no not in the least. The only positive thing I can say about arenas is that they tend to be quick. Traditional warzones are far more interesting to me. Even though the mechanics are simple, at least they have some and all the maps are different.

 

I was super excited for GSF until I learned it was PvP only. Even still I was willing to give it a go. I burned out after a month. Why? One mode, two nearly identical maps. 2.6 added Deathmatch and no new maps. In the immortal words of my Sin tank: "Yaaaa-aaaawn".

Cos raid bosses don't spam /spit and /laugh.

I love it when PvPers throw around phrases like "scripted enemies in predictable fights." It's a passive-aggressive way of calling us all unskilled baddies. And you wonder why there is sometimes conflict between the two camps.

 

If you think operations bosses can not be challenging because they are scripted, I'd like to see your PvP guild run S&V NiM in PvP gear, and then come back and tell us how boring it is. Oh, and while the bosses may be scripted, your teammates are not. There are 7 or 15 other people in the group that need to perform at a pretty decent level for you to progress. A missed taunt in PvP reduces one number on a scoreboard, but has little impact overall in most matches...in PvE that mistake can easily wipe the group.

 

But assuming you are not here just to troll, the reasons I enjoy PvE are:

 

- The challenge of clearing new content and new mechanics.

- Playing with friends, helping each other succeed in our shared goal.

- Because it's there.

- Better gear.

 

Personally I gave up on PvP because I found it quite boring, mostly due to really terrible matchmaking. 90% of all matches had one strong team going against a far weaker team. The outcomes were pretty much decided before the spawn doors even opened. If I was on the stronger team, it would be amusing for a bit, at least to get my weekly done, but wasn't all that interesting. Actual close matches or back-n-forths were far too rare.

... Oh, and while the bosses may be scripted, your teammates are not. ....

YESSS. NoFishing, this is a brilliant statement, and 100% accurate.

 

To answer the OP: When I started the game, I found PvE enjoyable because I liked the setting and the stories and learning the different clasess (I've now played every AC on both factions).

 

However, I currently find PvE enjoyable because my guild is fun to hang out with in game. We have a great time doing pretty much anything together, though we like operations the most. Heck, we'll even log onto mumble while playing our own single player games just to shoot the s**t.

simple answer? to each their own.

 

complicated answer? you play pvp long enough and it becasue just as "scripted" as what you claim pve to be. you learn what people tend to do in which situations, most pvp in TOR is objective based, so you can often predict what other team will do and counter it.

 

the fun of it is subjective.

I like pvp as a change of pace and becasue when done with friends can sometimes give me the same rush I get from downing a particularly intricate boss fight.

I like solo pve becasue i can play at my own pace, on my own terms, tailor my experience to my exact moods. I like group pve for the same reason I like ballroom dancing - its social and requires teamwork, learning the steps together and group coordination. (which is not that much different from pvp - you still have strategies and tactics and plans, there's just more chances for improv)

 

pvp is not objectively harder than pve. THAT is a misconception and frankly? an attempt to elevate your preferred activity through the means of putting down other possible activities and to make yourself feel superior. whenever I see people do that I feel sad for them.

 

pvp is a bit DIFFERENT from pve. and different people enjoy different things. just because YOU don't get something, doesn't mean its not awesome.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I gather that some think I am 'trolling' or that I think PVP and it's players are superior to PVE , I never intended to imply that in my OP and I didn't think I had worded it in a way that portrays it as that; but I appologise non-the-less if thats what it looks like. I have done one of the Dread thingy operations with PVP gear and wiped repeatedly on the first boss, I know that these fights are not easy mode.

 

As to PvP vs PvE. I enjoy both, but one is strategy and one is tactics. They are very different experiences. The general lack of content in pvp does however make it about as monotonous as farm-status pve at times.

Yeah I agree with you about that to an extent, the lack of content is a true shame and can sometimes make it farm like.

 

Cos raid bosses don't spam /spit and /laugh.

You definitely get that a fair bit in PVP, I have personally learned to just ignore it, but im sure there are ego problems with some PVE players too?

 

I love it when PvPers throw around phrases like "scripted enemies in predictable fights." It's a passive-aggressive way of calling us all unskilled baddies. And you wonder why there is sometimes conflict between the two camps.

I know of PVE players who are excellent at PVP, and of course some that are not. That said there are full time PVP players who are terrible at PVP also. Both aspects take skill.

 

Oh, and while the bosses may be scripted, your teammates are not.

Good point, I have never thought of it that way before.

 

Actual close matches or back-n-forths were far too rare.

Yeah these are the matches I live for, but I can still have fun in not so balanced macthes even when I am on the losing side (Provided we arent getting absolutely completely face rolled).

 

pvp is a bit DIFFERENT from pve. and different people enjoy different things. just because YOU don't get something, doesn't mean its not awesome.

Completely agree with you on that, thats why I am asking about it because I will freely admit I am ignorant on the matter.

 

Overall from what I have read I feel that it is very much the community aspect of playing with friends and trying to take down tough boss fights with different tactics that brings much enjoyment. Gearing seems to be important also, getting a reward for your work is always enjoyable even in PVP. Don't know if I will start actively doing PVE but it has been somewhat enlightening, I feel the social and fun guild aspect of it would attract me the most but I don't know if I could find a guild that would take a complete scrub and one that likes to actively PVP aswell as PVE.

 

Thanks everyone and feel free to keep adding to this thread.

I would be careful including the term "scripted boss fights" as many PvPers use this as basically an insult against PvEers, although I realize in your case that it was not meant to be an insult but a genuine question.

 

While it is true all PvE encounters are scripted, they have to be that's what makes them PvE, being scripted doesn't automatically mean they are easy.

 

I mean you said you tried TFB, even in HM the only boss that ever causes people any issues is the 3rd (weekly) boss and in SM even the most moronic PuG can clear the entire Op (assuming they don't all leave once the weekly is done). Now NiM TFB on the other hand is a far more challenging prospect, you aren't going to walk through that no matter how many times you've watched the fights on Youtube.

 

Each boss has a different level of skill and gear required to clear it, sometimes gear can compensate for lack of skill and vice versa. As you move on to the more challenging bosses the level of skill, coordination and gear required increases, while the number of mistakes and errors the mechanics allow you to make without wiping the group decreases. Corrupter Zero (DF HM) for example is very highly tuned so that even the slightest error or lack of concentration can wipe the raid. Whereas Grob'Thok in the same Operation only really requires the Tanks to be awake and even then is no harder to Tank than SOA in EV.

 

PvP is about the competitive element, you are testing yourself against another team to see who is the best. PvE is about either challenging yourself, social gameplay or both. That is not to say PvP can't be social and self-challenging or that PvE can't be competitive but it is just that PvP lends itself more easily to the completive element and PvE to the more social and challenge based game type.

 

I do both, I enjoy both and I am probably decent (but not great) at both. I know great PvP players who don't PvE and I know great PvE players that have never PvP'd. At the end of the day it is all about what YOU like to do. If you've given both of them a good try and decided PvE is not for you then there is no problem as far as I can see.

Edited February 12, 2014 by magi_melcior

I love Challenging Boss fights. It seems frustrating when we wipe 4,5,6 times on one boss, but we all learn our parts as guild. It's a fun part of the game, and while i do like pvp i seem to do better in pvE

This game isn't very good for PvP IMO. I never enjoyed the PvP in this game and was an avid PvP player on EQ2.

Hello everyone!

 

Firstly I will state I am a hardcore PVP'er, it is all I do and have been doing for the majority of my time playing this game and others. I now have 11 max level characters which were leveled through a mixture of PVE (Questing and occasional FP) and PVP but I don't enjoy the process of leveling through PVE content. I don't understand how fighting scripted enemies in predictable fights could possibly be entertaining after playing PVP with its unpredictable enemies and dynamic fights. So I was wondering, and I don't mean to cause any offense to anyone in asking this, but how and why do you find it enjoyable?

 

That said I have done a couple of operations, mostly pugged but one time with a PVP guild I was in (We all ran it in PVP gear haha), and especially with the longer ones such as TFB I got incredibly bored about half way through. There was a measure of enjoyment in there, but what are the things you do to make it really live for you?

 

And I understand that PVP'ers and PVE'ers seem to have an aggressive air between the two, I personally have called PVE'ers carebears and made jokes about them as if they were a strange people. Really though I respect everyone's right to play the game as they see fit and mean no offense <3 all you carebears out there . In all seriousness though the vast majority of the population are in fact PVE players so I feel like there must be something there that make it so popular, and perhaps I may be missing out on something due to my own ignorance?

 

Thanks!

 

As a person who played on both sides. What I can tell you about PvE is:

 

1- It is a win-win kind of scenario. Almost no one loses, which is the biggest bother in PvP. Even harder content, if you have a dedicated group that understands the game mechanics well, can be burned down relatively easy.

 

2- It gives better change for all classes to perform. In PvP half the game spec are down right unviable.

 

3- It does not require major understanding of every single spec in the game. Closet thing in PvE is boss fights, which are relatively easier to understand and much more predictable.

 

4- It is a lot less egoistic, and much more friendly. I am in fully auged obroan, and I get really frustrated when I see ppl in WZs with 26K HP and 1,600 expertise unstimmed. In PvE there is no such thing. There is a gear requirement, and most people can easily out gear the highest content, so it is just the process of them understanding the mechanics.

 

5- The gearing in PvE is straight forward that people can understand very easily with gear rating and clear system. In PvP gearing is so convoluted, that you have to tinker with 20 million things in order to be effective in WZs with low gear.

 

6- PvE has no entry barriers. You have been gearing up for it since level 1 and everything in the game educates you on how to gear up. Even if you are not good, you can still do most content easily. The skill and gap required to compete effectively in PvP is not easy to attain and nothing educates you to improve, except joining WZs and getting obliterated.

 

Having said all the above, I prefer solo PvE content or FPs, over ops. I got extremely bored in ops. I hate 16 man ops in particular, cuz there is so much skills flying, my eyes get fuzzy. In addition, I prefer that fights break every 1-2 minutes. In ops you can stay in a constant fight for 10+ minutes. Also you need to block 2-3 hours to get anything done, were in PvP and PvE solo content/FPs, all I need is 1 hour.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Ottoattack

As a person who played on both sides. What I can tell you about PvE is:

 

1- It is a win-win kind of scenario. Almost no one loses, which is the biggest bother in PvP. Even harder content, if you have a dedicated group that understands the game mechanics well, can be burned down relatively easy.

 

2- It gives better change for all classes to perform. In PvP half the game spec are down right unviable.

 

3- It does not require major understanding of every single spec in the game. Closet thing in PvE is boss fights, which are relatively easier to understand and much more predictable.

 

4- It is a lot less egoistic, and much more friendly. I am in fully auged obroan, and I get really frustrated when I see ppl in WZs with 26K HP and 1,600 expertise unstimmed. In PvE there is no such thing. There is a gear requirement, and most people can easily out gear the highest content, so it is just the process of them understanding the mechanics.

 

5- The gearing in PvE is straight forward that people can understand very easily with gear rating and clear system. In PvP gearing is so convoluted, that you have to tinker with 20 million things in order to be effective in WZs with low gear.

 

6- PvE has no entry barriers. You have been gearing up for it since level 1 and everything in the game educates you on how to gear up. Even if you are not good, you can still do most content easily. The skill and gap required to compete effectively in PvP is not easy to attain and nothing educates you to improve, except joining WZs and getting obliterated.

 

Having said all the above, I prefer solo PvE content or FPs, over ops. I got extremely bored in ops. I hate 16 man ops in particular, cuz there is so much skills flying, my eyes get fuzzy. In addition, I prefer that fights break every 1-2 minutes. In ops you can stay in a constant fight for 10+ minutes. Also you need to block 2-3 hours to get anything done, were in PvP and PvE solo content/FPs, all I need is 1 hour.

 

This really just speaks for how bad PvP is in this game. When BiS is a *********** matrix cube and wearing a 61 hilt buffed up there's a problem. The closest PVE has to backwards BiS is for dot/healing specs that can utilize the double proc on kell dragon SA relics.

Edited February 12, 2014 by mastirkal

I love it when PvPers throw around phrases like "scripted enemies in predictable fights." It's a passive-aggressive way of calling us all unskilled baddies. And you wonder why there is sometimes conflict between the two camps.

 

I agree to that.

Even though a pretty obvious troll I'll actually answer the question.

 

1. The story. I like how the different class story lines inter relate to each other. I like seeing the reactions to different dialogue options.

2. Learning different classes. I like the variety of different classes in an environment where I am not ridiculed, called a stupid f***in' noob for not being the most awesome mouse clicker in the world.

3. Playing with my friends. I like to be able to play with my friends.

4. Seeing if I can better my own personal bests, be it healing, DPSing or tanking.

5. It's NOT PVP. I hate PVP. I hate the uber wiener measuring morons that think because they can click buttons faster they are somehow superior to me in RL instead of just better at playing a game.

6. I like being able to progress at my own pace. Being able to step away from keyboard if I need to.

7. I like being able to set personal goals for myself that I can accomplish on my own. Be that accumulating a certain amount of credits, getting a piece of gear, completing an achievement.

Don't know if I will start actively doing PVE but it has been somewhat enlightening, I feel the social and fun guild aspect of it would attract me the most but I don't know if I could find a guild that would take a complete scrub and one that likes to actively PVP aswell as PVE.

 

That you PvP won't matter to anyone. Pretty much every guild of any size, even those that are ostensibly PvE guilds, have players that actively PvP, as you've already noted. They just won't necessarily try to form a ranked PvP team.

 

A few pieces of advice if you do decide to try raiding more:

 

1. Try not to get upset if the guild doesn't include you on a run on a given night, particularly if it is a scheduled raid. Be available, but be flexible as well. Most raiders do more than one raid per week on their alts, so there will be more opportunities to raid and get gear.

 

2. Related to #1, if you do join a progression raid, don't freak out about gear drops. Loot rules will be explained, and are generally setup for the advancement of the team as whole. With a good team at your back, you will get all the PvE gear you could possibly want and then some, it just might take more than a week. :-)

 

3. Don't run around in circles unless fight mechanics require it. Seeing someone run circles around a boss is a tell-tale sign of a PvPer. But it's a bad idea, because you are probably just going to get yourself cleaved.

 

4. If a voice chat is offered, join it. You don't have to have a mic, but being able to listen makes fight explanations much faster, and callouts during fights more effective. Oh, and if you do have a mic, use a push-to-talk key.

 

5. Assuming you are DPS, identify another DPS in raid that really knows the fights, preferably a melee DPS. And unless told to do otherwise, plan on always hitting what they hit and changing targets when they do. Most avid PvPers don't have a problem with this one, since they are used to focus targeting.

 

6. Not everything bad is marked with a red circle. But we'll leave you to find those on your own, like the S&V bridge datacron.

 

6. Not everything bad is marked with a red circle. But we'll leave you to find those on your own, like the S&V bridge datacron.

 

Yea, without the 1000 stat boost it's not possible to kill the styrax manifestation before the others close in on you in time.

Erm, because you can play it as a game, without depending on anyone else, and enjoy the story without having to be good enough not to be killed by some kid who spends gazillion hours a week to become professional at the art of mouse-click killing and gear-mongering? Because, you know, it takes some over 30 seconds to just rotate the view to see who the heck is shooting at you and another 20 sec to target.... With an absence of skill like that PvP would be neither possible, nor enjoyable. While the PvE is doable and fun. Cause, you know, the story....

 

I love this answer lol

 

But as a "console gamer" I'd rather play a single player RPG with a great story. The PvP crowd shows no mercy to anyone who hasn't done PvP b4. I don't have a high tech 47 button mouse with dynamic feedback & occulus rift integration..... But I DO have 2yr old twin daughters who like to sit in my lap & watch me play. (Which slows down my reaction time). And did I mention they're potty training? It's amazing how no-one has to use the bathroom until I'm in a cave surrounded by monsters & Sith lords...

... It's amazing how no-one has to use the bathroom until I'm in a cave surrounded by monsters & Sith lords...

O M F G Y E S.

 

I also think they have the most fun by playing quietly and happily together, listening very very carefully for the beginning of our operations boss pull, THEN start screaming over the toy.

Enjoyable? The really tightly tuned stuff like NiM Thrasher, Cartel Warlords, Styraak.

If they removed SM Operations from the game and just had HM and NiM I wouldn't be bothered (well, as long as they separated the lockouts).