You won't believe how many people have said that.

 

And I don't really see why. Vitiate [REDACTED]* who can't bear to see a stronger, more successful Sith Lord?

 

*

Ok so after reading much of these post, it seems that their are many people who support vitiate and many people who support sidious. I for one think that Vitiate is stronger, (but ive never read any of the star wars novels so I don't know.) But im thinking that most of these people are getting their quotes from wiki or wookiepedia which I believe is written by other people not exactly making it canon. (Though I am unsure what classifies canon.)

Ok so after reading much of these post, it seems that their are many people who support vitiate and many people who support sidious. I for one think that Vitiate is stronger, (but ive never read any of the star wars novels so I don't know.) But im thinking that most of these people are getting their quotes from wiki or wookiepedia which I believe is written by other people not exactly making it canon. (Though I am unsure what classifies canon.)

 

If you're reading colored text its safe to assume they're quoting from sourcebooks, novels, comics, game cinematics, or films and when Wookieepedia is used it is merely to reinforce a point. (especially in a long thread like this they wont always repost the same quotes every 5 pages)

 

Threads like this do of course carry a level of personal opinion as the reason threads like this exist is because there is room for debate and a final say on the matter may not exist or sources may be seen as outdated. (leading to a great difference in opinions as in partly the case here)

 

However, if someone is giving their own thoughts it can still be a logical argument assuming they have support in the form or quotes or facts. Some claims require the merging of multiple sources that may not be directly linked, so the author of a post has to link them with a logical and supported argument.

 

Also, cannon is defined here

A simple guide is George Lucas/Leland Chee>Film>TV>novel/comic>game>fannon

Also, cannon is defined here

A simple guide is George Lucas/Leland Chee>Film>TV>novel/comic>game>fannon

 

I think this has changed. Leland Chee doesnt have much power within LFL anymore with the Disney Acquisition and the new canon team being put in place. Also the official canon is now "if its not on screen its not canon"

Edited December 21, 2013 by Girdeux

As it stands, until it is contradicted by anything in film or television it is canon.

 

However, this will all be changing most likely with the new films being put in place. Something many fans of the EU are worried about.

I think this has changed. Leland Chee doesnt have much power within LFL anymore with the Disney Acquisition and the new canon team being put in place. Also the official canon is now "if its not on screen its not canon"

Well this is pure speculation so we shouldn't be so quick to state it as fact. Leland Chee since the Disney Acquisition remains the Keeper of the Holocron and continues to make statements regarding canon with Star Wars mythos.

1. I wouldn't assume that at all. Firstly Darth Plagueis is a considerably accomplished telepath himself, partly by way of being a Muun.

Revan was (is) also a considerably accomplished telepath; he once telepathically forced Basic language in to the minds of some Rakatans to make them communicate with him in Basic language because he couldn't understand their original language. This event occurred when Revan was a Darth and had confronted Sith Emperor not long ago. In addition, Revan always had been proficient in the matters of Mind Tricks.

 

Emperor Vitiate have history of breaking many Jedi and Sith with just his telepathic abilities, even went as far as to destroy the minds of some. With just a minor mental brush, he could inflict pain and anguish to a Sith (Lord) level opponent and force such an opponent to his knees. Emperor Vitiate seems to have mastered telepathic powers to their highest degree; he broke both Revan and Malak with barely an effort (a fraction of his power) during confrontation with them. Yes, both Revan and Malak were on the precipice of the dark side at the time of this encounter but this doesn't implies that they were vulnerable to Force powers, they were rather battle-hardened champions of the Jedi Order. Therefore, Emperor Vitiate have ample capability to break opponents of even the caliber of Plagueis with just his telepathic powers.

 

Plagueis is likely to be surprised by the attempt of Emperor Vitiate to telepathically assault him in extraordinarily aggressive manner, the former individual would be taken aback by such ferocity like many in his place were, and this would be sufficient for Emperor Vitiate to take advantage and break him (or) quickly turn the tide of the battle. Point is that when somebody new confronts Emperor Vitiate, that somebody is typically taken aback by the sheer ferocity of the Emperor's telepathic bombardment but it is most often too late till then. Continue to read below.

 

Secondly the Sith Emperor's technique relies on oppressing the individual with the dark side, and is therefore more effective against light siders, and the only powerful Force Users he has been able to dominate while conscious are Revan and Malak - and only because they were under the influence of the dark side. In reality I feel Plagueis would be able to resist long enough to lash out with the Force as Revan did, interrupting his concentration and dealing a decisive blow as in such a state the Sith Emperor has noted be vulnerable.

Emperor Vitiate's technique is effective against any Force-user irrespective of one's alignment. Ever since he began to attack others, he was using his telepathic abilities to subjugate his targets; heck, he stripped the strongest Sith Lord of his homeworld from his powers and mind at the age of 10.

 

Emperor Vitiate aggressively bombards the mind of his target(s) with extremely haunting images (specially gives them a taste of experience with a void like emptiness) and simultaneously dampens or overwhelms the senses of the target(s) in the process with oppressive telepathic pressure. Virtually anybody gets preoccupied in this telepathic web, looses focus and control in the process and ends up subjugated by enormous pressure on the mind. If this is somehow not enough then Emperor Vitiate is known to multi-task like he did against the Jedi Strike Team led by Tol Braga to exert more pressure and end the contest in his favor.

 

It requires great power and 100% preparation and expectation of an assault of the aforementioned magnitude and ferocity to summon a counter on moment's notice but most newcomers get caught by surprise.

 

I also find your comparison between the most powerful Jedi of the OR era and the PT era to be both disturbing and absurd. I'd strong advise you to retract that statement which is severely flawed for the following reasons.

 

You cannot assume that ranks within the PT Order are the same as that of this Order. Just because a Jedi has been confirmed to be one of the most powerful of that Order, does not mean they would hold the same title in another. Because over several millennia a lot can change. Surprisingly. For example Satele Shan held the title of most powerful Jedi within the Order no? Is she on the same level of Grand Master Yoda? No.

I fully acknowledge the gravity of this point but what makes you think that the most powerful Jedi of the TOR era are likely to be weaklings in other eras?

 

You will be surprised by the competency of Force-users even during the event known as Force Wars.

 

According to recently established canon, the Jedi Order grew "out of touch" of its ways during the so-called era of peace lasting a 1000 years which ended during PT era. I am not sure what this revelation exactly implies but it does not gives a positive vibe about the competency of the Jedi Order of this timeline. Yoda is likely an outlier in this timeline. Yes, their is a claim from Mr. Lucas that is in favor of the competency of the Jedi Order in PT era but Mr. Lucas also have admitted that he doesn't represents the entire mythos so his claim is fallible in this respect.

 

In-fact, Jedi Order during SWTOR era was relatively much better prepared to handle external threats then during PT era; Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia notes that valuable lessons had been learned from the devastating Jedi Civil War and the Jedi did not get complacent during the 300 years of span of peace like they did during the so-called era of peace which lasted a 1000 years in the future.

 

Furthermore, I am not sure where Satele Shan ranks in the big picture but she seems to be among the most competent Jedi in galactic history.

 

You've failed to provide evidence, as none exists, that proves that these individuals were the most powerful members of their respective Order. Satele Shan for one was not present. Indeed I find that very hard to believe considering that the majority of them were still Jedi Knights who had yet to achieve the rank of Master.

Jedi ranks do not mean much since Knighthood. As an example: Revan had surpassed all Jedi in power as a Knight.

 

As for the evidence you demanded:-

 

 

 

 

---

 

The individuals to which the novel refers were Yoda and Windu. These individuals are incomparable to any one member of the Jedi Strike Team. Yoda has been confirmed to be the most powerful Jedi in history, and both Windu and Yoda were considered amongst the greatest Jedi lightsaber duelists ever. What comparative prowess have any members of the Jedi Strike Team achieved? Surely if they had achieved such levels of power they would all have attained the rank of master? Be renowned and famous within the Jedi Order? Outshine all their contemporaries and all be members of the Jedi Council? Yet they are none of these things.

You must've heard of the proverb: The absence of proof is not proof of absence.

 

That statement in Star Wars: Darth Plagueis is "open-ended" in its context.

 

It would be unwise to dismiss Jedi such as Tol Braga and Hero of Tython as among the heavyweights of the mythos. Even the other two (i.e. Warren Sedoru and Leeha Narezz) are no pushovers in canon. Hero of Tython, in particular, is stronger than legends such as Nomi, Ulic, Meetra and Revan.

 

Neither Plagueis and Sidious had yet to reach their primes upon that statement being made. And therefore even if none of the above were the case it would still remain an inaccurate comparison.

So as of TPM, both Plagueis and Sidious were capable of taking on the combined might of lets say Yoda and Windu and win at individual capacity?

 

Plagueis and Sidious were right to fear the combined might of Yoda and Windu, which I fully expect would have been more than capable of defeating the Sith Emperor alone. Especially given the fact that Yoda proved almost Darth Sidious' equal, and Windu was able to fight on par with him via Vaapad. A Sith Lord in the same league of Sidious, one of them would have a strong chance of defeating them. Together victory is almost assured.

If they can get past his extremely aggressive telepathic assault and host of other powers that would have felled an entire Council, which seems to be too much.

 

Of-course, depending of the circumstances, anybody can win or loose! But under fair circumstances, Emperor Vitiate is too overwhelming for mortals; even if we are to assume that Yoda and Windu (each) match the combined might of Sedoru and Narezz, this duo is still unlikely to be more potent then the entire Jedi Strike Team assembled to capture Emperor Vitiate during the era of Satele Shan. Jedi Order wouldn't risk sending noobs for such a challenging mission or would it?

 

What has this got to do with logic or hyperbole? Do you understand what Chekov's Gun is? It is a narrative technique, designed with the purpose of making the novel more effective and engaging as a narrative, which should be every authors number one priority. Simply put if they did not intend to imply that Plagueis was responsible for the change in weather, they would not have mentioned it. Why else do you think the writers would have made this point? Your going to have to accept the writers intentions here and swallow it I'm afraid.

 

Regardless, you seem to have the wrong end of the stick. Neither Plagueis nor the Sith Emperor have displayed proficiency with Alter Environment. Instead the examples to which both you and I refer are demonstrations of the unintentional effects of creating a dark side nexus. Plagueis had no interest in changing the weather of Naboo, it was his mere presence of the planet that caused the weather to change, due to the dark side aura he emanated. Likewise, simply by performing dark side rituals on Dromund Kaas he caused perpetual lightning storms. He did not think that the sky needed a splash of purple and therefore decided to play weatherman.

I admit, I find this POV fascinating and interesting.

 

However, their is strong likelihood of Emperor Vitiate being an expert in the matters of Alter Environment because Sith Sorcery is one of his greatest specialties.

 

So no mistake has been made, that is why I provided the quote regarding Aborah. Because like the Sith Emperor as a result of his experimentation into the dark side he has created a dark side nexus. Furthermore you claim the feat to be impressive and yet still dismiss Plagueis as a worthy challenger. Why? Does this revelation not indicate that Darth Plagueis was an incredibly powerful Sith Lord? Only top-tier Sith Lords are capable of creating dark side nexuses.

Darth Plagueis is certainly an incredibly powerful Sith Lord but he is unlikely to go toe-to-toe with Emperor Vitiate, a sound assumption based on available information.

 

And yes, they are not combat abilities, like I said I'm confused as you why you refer to them in the first place and place any significance on the Sith Emperor supposedly being superior in these fields, which for the record he was not. You should certainly refer to his Alter abilities, such as his ability to vaporize his enemies with Force Waves or reduce them to piles of ash with Force Lightning - because these are what are of significance here.

Focus should be upon quality of opposition in these cases; in both cases, victims were defenseless against Force powers.

 

Emperor Vitiate could virtually atomize even "strongly built droids" with his power. In-fact, Emperor Vitiate wielded such powers that he could utterly destroy even powerful Force-users in a span of few seconds with them.

 

Lets take a look shall we?

 

 

The lightsaber had scarcely left the Muun’s grip when Wandau flew from cover to bring the attack to the Muun, triggering his blaster as ceaselessly as Maa Kaap was still doing. This time, though, the Muun merely stretched out his right hand and absorbed the bolts. Traveling up the length of his arm and across his narrow chest, the energy seemed to fountain from the hand awaiting the return of the spinning weapon as a tangle of blue electricity that hissed from his tapered fingers, catching Wandau full-on and lifting him to the ceiling of the hold before dropping him to the puddled deck in a heap, as if his bones had turned to dust.

 

--Plagueis reduces a man to dust with a casual application of lightning. Just imagine what he would have been capable of if he ramped that up to say a Force Maelstrom. I expect few could withstand such power unscathed.

 

 

 

The wait lasted only until Plagueis attempted to unleash lightning. His second subsidiary heart failed, paralyzing him with pain and nearly plunging him into unconsciousness. The assassins wasted not a moment, throwing themselves at him in groups, though in a vain attempt to penetrate the Force shield he raised. Again he rallied, this time with a ragged sound dredged from deep inside that erupted from him like a sonic weapon, shattering the eardrums of those within ten meters and compelling the rest to bring their hands to their ears.

In blinding motion his hands and feet smashed skulls and windpipes. He stopped once to conjure a Force wave that all but atomized the bodies of six Maladians. He spun through a turn, dragging the wave halfway around the room to kill half a dozen more.

 

 

--Despite having suffered grievous injury and his hearts failing, he still managed to generate enough power to vaporise a dozen Maladin assassins with little difficulty. Again imagine what Plagueis would be capable of if not hindered by a grievous wound and if pushed to the fullest extent of his powers. If a blast of the Sith Emperor's own lightning can knock him down a Force Wave that can vaporize people will send him clean off his feet.

Here;

 

 

• Plagueis asserts that powers of individuals do not diminish even when they are wounded, this could be true for certain species including Muun.
   
  
• Emperor Vitiate was the sole survivor of the most destructive dark side ritual to have ever been attempted by Sith Lords and this is sufficient proof of his unprecedented defensive abilities. A lightsaber is much safer bet.
   
  
• Force Wave which nearly atomized some people is not the same thing as Emperor Vitiate's Sith lightning and neither it is going to even budge Emperor Vitiate with his guard up. Watch this footage to realize the fallacy of your assertion in this case:
  
  

 

Furthermore, note how his Force shouts have the impact of a sonic weapon, and that is when Plagueis had suffered a wound to his neck which would no doubt have limited this function. Yet is still shattered eardrums. I'd be interested to now how the Sith Emperor would defend against such a sonic attack. It would certainly stun him.

You serious? Just because Plagueis's Force shouts had an effect on some defenseless individuals, doesn't indicates that it will have an effect on a powerful Force-user, let alone someone as powerful as Emperor Vitiate.

 

Darth Malgus have relatively superior feat of similar nature by the way:-

 

 

 

 

---

 

Others Plagueis felled with his hands by snapping necks and putting his fists through armored torsos.--With his bare hands Plagueis punches straight through armor and flesh and breaks bone. All again while suffering from a mortal injury and keeping his failing hearts alive. Consider what he's capable of at full strength. The Sith Emperor for one does not seem to possess the most resilient of bodies and no armor whatsoever.

 

To the clamorous beating of drums and the wailing of the onlookers, the warriors brandished their weapons, raised a deafening war cry, and attacked. A nod from Plagueis, and the two Sith sped across the plain to meet them, flying among them like wraiths, evading arrows, gleaming spear tips, and blows from battle-axes, going one against one, two, or three, but felling opponent after opponent with taps from the force pikes, until among the hundreds of jerking, twitching bodies sprawled on the rough ground, only one was left standing.

So you are making assumptions about durability of Emperor Vitiate on the basis of what Plagueis did to some defenseless individuals? Seriously? Don't ever try this kind of reasoning again.

 

If Emperor Vitiate was so easy to hurt, I wonder what kept the Sith from destroying him in such a long span of time. Think....

 

--Together Sidious and Plagueis defeated hundreds of lethal warriors without suffering a single scratch in a remarkable display of speed and agility. Which will greatly aid Plagueis in overwhelming the Sith Emperor.

These so-called lethal warriors are fodder for powerful Force-users. Real challenge comes from the armies of the Republic, Sith and Mandalorians.

 

 

• Darth Marr is known to have single-handedly routed whole armies of the Republic. He is undefeated in the battlefield.
  
• Darth Decimus is known to have dis-oriented armies of the Republic with just sheer force of his will, effectively turning the tide of the battles afterwards.
  
• Sidious personally believed that Malgus's battlefield feats have never been duplicated. Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia also notes that Malgus have crushed even the mightiest of the foes with his unorthodox combative style and powerful anger.
  

 

Their are more examples, I believe.

 

And given that Plagueis can knock him off his feet with atomising Force waves, shatter his ear drums with sonic screams and subject him to intensely powerful bolts of lightning I expect that the Sith Emperor will be very much occupied given Plagueis plenty of opportunity to rush in and cut him down.

And that is without even considering lightsaber abilities, Darth Plagueis was a master lightsaber duelists while the Sith Emperor, a scholar, who didn't even always carry a lightsaber on his person, is likely not.

 

That gives Plagueis a considerably advantage if he gets in close.

Problem is that your assumptions are far-fetched in respect to offensive capabilities of Plagueis.

 

I thought that you learned something from the thread of Exal Kressh but I was wrong. Recheck this thread to understand how powerful are even the servants of Emperor Vitiate, let alone him.

 

If you are going to make a case for Plagueis, you need to bring forth evidence of how destructive he can be against powerful Force-users. By the way, even the likes of Venamis and Tenebrous do not hold a candle to Emperor Vitiate.

 

All in all if you think, based on the evidence you have, that Revan is capable of challenging Sidious, then you would be contradicting yourself by claiming that Plagueis cannot challenge the Sith Emperor. He is more impressive.

This is A > B > C logic, Beni.

 

Revan have lot more combat experience under his belt then Plagueis and is also a superior tactican than the latter. Much like Plagueis, Revan is also a very formidable Force-user; I believe that Revan can be just as effective and destructive as Plagueis can be with his Force abilities / raw power. This is why I believe that Revan is likely to give Sidious more trouble then Plagueis would to Emperor Vitiate.

 

However, Sidious can actually utterly destroy Revan with use of Force Storm (Wormhole) power, (if) he gets the opportunity to do so, but Revan can prevent him from summoning this power with his own capabilities, forcing a more conventional battle and ending up giving Sidious some taste of his own medicine before going down.

 

Heck, Plagueis despises lightsaber dueling and he pointed out to Venamis that Sith would prevail on the basis of cunning and not on the basis of their combative abilities:

 

To Plagueis, lightsaber duels were tedious affairs, full of wasted emotion and needless acrobatics.

 

“The future of the Sith no longer hinges on physical prowess but on political cunning. The new Sith will rule less by brute force than by means of instilling fear.” (Plagues to Venamis)

 

Plagueis is very powerful but he doesn't have a mindset of a true warrior, Revan is an antithesis of him.

 

Plagueis was described as a "nuclear oval of mottled light, a rotating orb of terrifying energy... a vessel sufficiently strong to contain the full power of the dark side" - he clearly wields immense power - the Sith Emperor has not even been described in such terms when others are in his presence.

Emperor Vitiate haven't been credited for having unparalleled combat feats either, does this makes him inferior to lets say Malgus or does not have relatively superior showings?

 

To quote Dooku in this case:

 

“Master Kenobi, you disappoint me. Yoda holds you in such high esteem. Surely you can do better!”

 

If you continue to claim that he is nothing in comparison to the Sith Emperor sooner or later you are going to have to provide some sufficient evidence, not ludicrous and vague comparisons that lack logical consistency.

Not once I have stated that Plagueis is "nothing" in comparison to Emperor Vitiate but my assertion is that he is not in the league of Emperor Vitiate! Simple.

 

Your also going to have to provide some examples of the Sith Emperor creating life, because as far as I am aware he has not achieved this ability. If you are referring to Sith Spawn then you'll find their is a distinct difference between creating something out of something and creating something out of nothing. The latter is more impressive.

I don't understand, Plagueis created something new out of nothing? Like an act of God?

 

Finally, we cannot be certain of whether Plagueis achieved immortality or not. It is claimed that he became master of life and death and Sidious noticed that he had begun to age backward - indicating that he had manage to prevent his body from decaying. If that were the case then Plagueis would never have died of old age, I expect the actual ability that Plagueis sought was invincibility, the ability to suffer mortal injury, perhaps even die, and come back to life, something that the Sith Emperor never himself achieved. All in all I expect if unharmed, Plagueis would have lived forever.

 

Not that that is relevant to a combat situation, unless they planning on doing nothing and waiting for the other to die.

Plagueis did not achieve immortality. Also, what makes you think that Plagueis managed to extend his life like Emperor Vitiate? He didn't.

 

Finally, you've got to be kidding me with the assertion that Emperor Vitiate did not possessed the ability to come back to life after mortal death. Emperor Vitiate does not even needs a physical body to live, he switches hosts if they get destroyed or something. Emperor Vitiate is like Abeloth in this respect.

Edited December 23, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

Legend, you did indeed say that Plagueis was nothing to Vitiate.

Legend, you did indeed say that Plagueis was nothing to Vitiate.

And just said that Tenebrous and Venamis can't hold a candle to him. /sigh

Legend, you did indeed say that Plagueis was nothing to Vitiate.

Intended message is that Plagueis does not have options that would grant him edge over Emperor Vitiate.

 

And just said that Tenebrous and Venamis can't hold a candle to him. /sigh

So now every tom and harry holds a candle to Emperor Vitiate?

 

What is next; the likes of Dooku, Maul and Vader are a match for Emperor Vitiate? Maybe Ventress is too?

 

The example of Venamis just blows all the hype of Plagueis out of the water; Sith relatively superior then Venamis have served Emperor Vitiate and were no match for him.

Edited December 23, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

Intended message is that Plagueis does not have options that would grant him edge over Emperor Vitiate.

 

 

So now every tom and harry holds a candle to Emperor Vitiate?

 

What is next; the likes of Dooku, Maul and Vader are a match for Emperor Vitiate? Maybe Ventress is too?

 

The example of Venamis just blows all the hype of Plagueis out of the water; Sith relatively superior then Venamis have served Emperor Vitiate and were no match for him.

Tenebrous and Venamis are not Toms or Harrys. One would think that a Sith Master at the near pinnacle of the Rule of Two would possess exceptional power. But as always you are too eager to degrade non-OR characters. Shame.

Tenebrous and Venamis are not Toms or Harrys. One would think that a Sith Master at the near pinnacle of the Rule of Two would possess exceptional power. But as always you are too eager to degrade non-OR characters. Shame.

Venamis is not even a DARTH. Also, Rule of Two lineage is not entirely about power progression, it is filled with grey areas. Shame indeed.

Edited December 23, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

Venamis is not even a DARTH. Also, Rule of Two lineage is not entirely about power progression, it is filled with grey areas. Shame indeed.

I feel going toe-to-toe with Plagueis, and being considered as his replacement, proves him to be considerably powerful. And we learn enough about Tenebrous in the novel to know that he was near the power of Plagueis, he could even wield red lightning. Nor do I feel we have enough information on them to dismiss them out of hand.

 

Altogether its just plain silly to compare powerful Sith Lords and say one can't hold a candle to another.

I feel going toe-to-toe with Plagueis, and being considered as his replacement, proves him to be considerably powerful. And we learn enough about Tenebrous in the novel to know that he was near the power of Plagueis, he could even wield red lightning. Nor do I feel we have enough information on them to dismiss them out of hand.

 

Altogether its just plain silly to compare powerful Sith Lords and say one can't hold a candle to another.

Going toe-to-toe with Plagueis? I recall Plagueis collapsing a ceiling over him and that was the end of Tenebrous.

 

Heck, Jedi Master Orgus Din once collapsed an entire tunnel with his telekinetic abilities to restrict the movements of Flesh Raiders: http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120523184038/starwars/images/1/18/BringingDownTheHouse.jpg

 

Of-course, I am not asserting that Tenebrous is a weakling or something but their is nothing about him that suggests that he is a match for Emperor Vitiate.

 

ANALOGY: When Malgus found himself in similar situation as Tenebrous, he prevented tons of rubble from crushing him beneath and blew it apart in various directions. Malgus then proceeded to fight his adversaries who put him in this position and killed all of them with his powers. Keep in mind that Malgus was already badly wounded prior to this event and still packed considerable punch.

 

Their is no shortage of extremely competent Sith in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire and Emperor Vitiate was at the top of the food chain. I have noticed that authorities give more importance to works centered around G-canon and hype them more accordingly as well, plaguing the mythos with inconsistencies in this manner. Fans of these works get to use these tricks to their advantage but I am a realist. Holistic analysis favors Emperor Vitiate's overwhelming superiority over these Sith.

Edited December 23, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

Going toe-to-toe with Plagueis? I recall Plagueis collapsing a ceiling over him and that was the end of Tenebrous.

 

Heck, Jedi Master Orgus Din once collapsed an entire tunnel with his telekinetic abilities to restrict the movements of Flesh Raiders: http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120523184038/starwars/images/1/18/BringingDownTheHouse.jpg

 

Of-course, I am not asserting that Tenebrous is a weakling or something but their is nothing about him that suggests that he is a match for Emperor Vitiate.

 

ANALOGY: When Malgus found himself in similar situation as Tenebrous, he prevented tons of rubble from crushing him beneath and blew it apart in various directions. Malgus then proceeded to fight his adversaries who put him in this position and killed all of them with his powers. Keep in mind that Malgus was already badly wounded prior to this event and still packed considerable punch.

 

Their is no shortage of extremely competent Sith in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire and Emperor Vitiate was at the top of the food chain. I have noticed that authorities give more importance to works centered around G-canon and hype them more accordingly as well, plaguing the mythos with inconsistencies in this manner. Fans of these works get to use these tricks to their advantage but I am a realist. Holistic analysis favors Emperor Vitiate's overwhelming superiority over these Sith.

I was referring to Venamis, nor do I feel Tenebrous' telekinetic feat to be primary evidence.

 

Your also making the assumption that Malgus cannot hold a candle to the Sith Emperor, I disagree. He may be at the "top of the food chain" but I do not believe he completely outshines all of them. I do not believe that any considerably powerful Sith Lord or Force Wielder is out shined by anyone for that matter.

 

Now if you feel you need to readjust the supposed "G-Canon" biased by being biased towards OR characters then fine. Regardless I am not interested in having this debate and I prefer not to place favour on any era.

/Sighs

So how long is it going to take before people realise no compromise will ever be reached here and that this discussion is basically pointless and endless..

So how long is it going to take before people realise no compromise will ever be reached here and that this discussion is basically pointless and endless..

 

Till Legend leaves would be my bet, I'm not sure how much longer Beni will put up with it though...

Edited December 23, 2013 by StarSquirrel

So how long is it going to take before people realise no compromise will ever be reached here and that this discussion is basically pointless and endless..

 

Well, I'm not participating because I know how pointless it is. I wonder how long it will take for Beni to realize it...

"Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating a fan-boy naivety is approximately 3720 to 1!" Edited December 23, 2013 by Silenceo

I was referring to Venamis, nor do I feel Tenebrous' telekinetic feat to be primary evidence.

Venmais's encounter with Emperor Vitiate is going to turn out to be very different from how it went against Plagueis. Emperor Vitiate doesn't engages anybody in a lightsaber duel, rather subjugates or destroys his foes with his overwhelming powers, ending his battles on quick note.

 

Venamis is likely to either end-up subjugated from telepathic bombardment or end-up dead from being subjected to overwhelming powers from Emperor Vitiate. This is it.

 

Now how impressive Venamis seems to be in the novel, doesn't matters vis-a-vis Emperor Vitiate. Lot of impressive Sith have served Emperor Vitiate and stood no chance against him, is this so difficult to understand?

 

Also, the feat to collapse the ceiling on Tenebrous is from Plagueis, the latter Sith Lord mortally wounded the former Sith Lord in this manner after finding an opportunity to do so.

 

Your also making the assumption that Malgus cannot hold a candle to the Sith Emperor, I disagree. He may be at the "top of the food chain" but I do not believe he completely outshines all of them. I do not believe that any considerably powerful Sith Lord or Force Wielder is out shined by anyone for that matter.

Once again, as impressive as Malgus is, he is not in the league of Emperor Vitiate. You need to stop underestimating Emperor Vitiate so much.

 

Now if you feel you need to readjust the supposed "G-Canon" biased by being biased towards OR characters then fine. Regardless I am not interested in having this debate and I prefer not to place favour on any era.

This is my observation based on how much hype G-canon characters have received in written literature in comparison to characters of other eras. Just consider the example of Luke, he have more impressive showings then Yoda but the latter is still regarded as the most powerful Jedi in written literature. The mythos is plagued with inconsistencies in this manner, a valid point, makes these debates difficult and pointless.

 

/Sighs

 

So how long is it going to take before people realise no compromise will ever be reached here and that this discussion is basically pointless and endless..

 

Till Legend leaves would be my bet, I'm not sure how much longer Beni will put up with it though...

 

Well, I'm not participating because I know how pointless it is. I wonder how long it will take for Beni to realize it...

 

"Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating a fan-boy naivety is approximately 3720 to 1!"

 

As long as significant underestimation of Emperor Vitiate doesn't stops, these debates will never end. I have seen people arguing against Emperor Vitiate in other forums but never I have come across matching level of underestimation this character receives in this forum.

 

I don't like to participate in debates either in which Yoda, Luke and Sidious are pitted against others in a kaggath because I fully understand how pointless such participation would be due to sheer amount of blind support these MARY SUES of the Star Wars get from some fans, but someone has to call spade a spade at some point.

 

It's not like as if I am not validating my arguments with canonical evidence but if you guys are going to ignore such canonical evidence in favor of your beliefs, you don't deserve to express sighs, label discussions pointless and label me fanboy. This is a discussion forum and people should not be shutdown for expressing their points. Thank you.

Edited December 23, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

Clearly we have a differing understanding of what "can't hold a candle to" means.

 

And don't lecture us about how Sidious, Luke and Yoda are "MARY SUE" when you seem to be making every attempt to claim that Revan is the same league as them - which quite obviously implies you are overhyping him massively.

It's not like as if I am not validating my arguments with canonical evidence but if you guys are going to ignore such canonical evidence in favor of your beliefs, you don't deserve to express sighs, label discussions pointless and label me fanboy. This is a discussion forum and people should not be shutdown for expressing their points. Thank you.

It's not like Beni, Aurbere, Wolf, Rayla, Sel, I, nor anyone else on this forum has ever countered your arguments numerous times before and in several threads with our own cannonical evidence.

 

Honestly I really want to say the exact same thing back to you, but you're just plain exhausting. Your child-like name-calling and biased and refusal to admit others can have a different (but valid) opinion about a match up is quite ridiculous.

 

We understand how powerful Vitiate is. Beni won't let us freakin not . Honestly he's on your side (OR fanboy and proud to admit it me thinks) but he is rational and sees that there isn't yet enough evidence to place him above the cannonically established most powerful sith.

 

Also, Fanboy: a male fan, esp. one who is obsessive about movies, comic books, or science fiction.

 

Technically we can...

 

In all honesty, we aren't shutting you down, and stopping you from expressing your beliefs, if anything it is the opposite. We acknowledge that Vitiate is powerful and we've got quite a healthy dose of your beliefs, we just don't agree he's better than Sidious. Your evidence was insufficient compared to your opposition, and you lost the debate. It happens....

 

The fact you continue pushing your point till you get what you want isn't expressing your opinion its trying to get what you want and throwing a fit when you can't get it.

Edited December 23, 2013 by StarSquirrel

Also Luke/Sidious/Yoda aren't Marty Sues, they aren't perfect beings. They have their flaws.

Also Luke/Sidious/Yoda aren't Marty Sues, they aren't perfect beings. They have their flaws.

Oh you bet they do, don't even get me started on Yoda...

 

Obviously another term Legend is misusing.