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Fix Darth Malgus knockback mechanic


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I love that some people assume everybody just PUGs these things and can simply grab an Inquisitor. I have three friends that I run with all the time (Powertech, Marauder, Assassin, and myself - Operative) and we're not interested in splitting up. We got him down last night, but it was a headache. Just because Sages and Sorcerers are flavor of the month doesn't mean BioWare should be designing encounters around them.

 

Then you have a comp that can kill the fight.

 

Either use Grappling Hook when he starts the lightning channel, and then have your Assassin use Overcharge (or w/e it's called) or just have the assassin use Spike and then Overcharge. Either works.

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It's still a non issue. As others have pointed out even non-knockback abilities like Grappling Hook and Force Pull will remove the knockback-immunity, at which point you just use a legit knockback and you're done.

 

It's really the easiest HM fight there is, no enrage timer means you can beat him in greens. Just use your brain when putting the group together. If you want to argue class comp, how about bringing a Juggernaut tank to Revan with no stackable force-reduction cooldowns to eat the instagib Force Lightning.

 

There is an enrage on HM Malgus.

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Then you have a comp that can kill the fight.

 

Either use Grappling Hook when he starts the lightning channel, and then have your Assassin use Overcharge (or w/e it's called) or just have the assassin use Spike and then Overcharge. Either works.

 

That's what we ended up doing, but it's still an unnecessary barrier. In my case, we had a workable composition, but not everybody will. What if we'd brought a Concealment Operative instead of an Assassin? My point is that some people have a set group that they roll with, and people with a T/H/D/D composition should stand a fair chance of downing any 4-man boss they come across regardless of class.

 

It just sets a bad precedent. What if there's a boss that requires a healing debuff to beat? Would every group be required to bring a Marauder/Sentinel? Bring the player, not the class is a solid model that lets people play what they want. I'm not asking for crazy no-healer or no-tank setups to be viable, I'm not asking for double tank/double healer groups, I just think every traditional group composition should work.

Edited by raelimar
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That's what we ended up doing, but it's still an unnecessary barrier. In my case, we had a workable composition, but not everybody will. What if we'd brought a Concealment Operative instead of an Assassin? My point is that some people have a set group that they roll with, and people with a T/H/D/D composition should stand a fair chance of downing any 4-man boss they come across regardless of class.

 

It just sets a bad precedent. What if there's a boss that requires a healing debuff to beat? Would every group be required to bring a Marauder/Sentinel? Bring the player, not the class is a solid model that lets people play what they want. I'm not asking for crazy no-healer or no-tank setups to be viable, I'm not asking for double tank/double healer groups, I just think every traditional group composition should work.

 

I am calling BS on ANY T/H/D/D combo remark.....this is not wow, get over it. Not every comp is going to work for every boss. If you have a friend that can't either cut it or causes you to fail a fight, replace them, suck it up, and drive on. BW does not need to dumb the game down to appease people that can't plan ahead. BW does not need to cater to people to make the game balanced around T/H/D/D.

 

Bad precedent would be dumbing the game down. If someone can't get a mission because they lack an ability, then they need to take it on their own to form their own group, with others that can cover said ability and win the fight. BW doesn't need to change the game because Joe, Bob, Tim, and Earl decided these were the only classes they wanted to play when they first started and they now see they came up short on certain abilities for a certain fight.

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I am calling BS on ANY T/H/D/D combo remark.....this is not wow, get over it. Not every comp is going to work for every boss. If you have a friend that can't either cut it or causes you to fail a fight, replace them, suck it up, and drive on. BW does not need to dumb the game down to appease people that can't plan ahead. BW does not need to cater to people to make the game balanced around T/H/D/D.

 

Bad precedent would be dumbing the game down. If someone can't get a mission because they lack an ability, then they need to take it on their own to form their own group, with others that can cover said ability and win the fight. BW doesn't need to change the game because Joe, Bob, Tim, and Earl decided these were the only classes they wanted to play when they first started and they now see they came up short on certain abilities for a certain fight.

 

Requiring certain classes doesn't make the game any harder or easier. Not sure what you're trying to argue here. This is a matter of preference, not difficulty. This is about BioWare presenting the illusion of choice, when in reality, certain comps aren't viable. What you're talking about actually DISCOURAGES premade groups, and encourages players to pick up some random scrub spamming LFG just because he has X ability.

Edited by raelimar
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They do need to fix this mechanic. Before my group was over-geared for this FP, we wiped endless times trying to knock him off. Not because he was hard, but because he just would not fall off. If we did not get the knock off on the first time, he would enrage and kill us.
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terrible, terrible mechanic.

 

we did this not having done the normal mode first. we pretty much killed malgus in the first try without knowing any boss mechanics, still we were not able to finish him because we had only one knockback. eventually we found out that Grapple works aswell. who would have thought..

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Who's fault is it that you did not have the right composition. You knew beforehand what it took to kill him, yet you brought a composition that couldn't accomplish it. Then you come to the forums and complain that you brought a group composition that you knew could not accxomplish the fight. Whose fault is that, the devs.....or more likely yours for not having a proper group composition. Part of making a successful group is understanding the mechanics of the flashpoint you want to do and bringing the right composition based on that. This fight does not need to be changed. I love the way it is designed.

 

No actually I didn't I went with a completely fresh group who hadn't done the ilum or emperor instance at all and hadn't heard anything about it.

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Or imagine this monumental concept, you actually line of sight his lightning to get him to move. Stop whining that you brought the wrong composition to do a fight. That is nobody's fault except your own.

.

 

We did that. He would just stand there and lightning through the steps on the stairs until the trooper did the grapple thing.

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ok, here is a little info for all you people complaining about this already, and saying ANY H/T/D/D combo should be able to do this.....GET IT OUT of your mind now that this game should be so cookie cutter, if you want all things to be fair and square and combo works, go back to wow. We do not want your cookie cutter and addons and all that other trash here.

 

USE your heads and figure it out, if you are the group leader and you put a group together thats determined to fail, it's your fault, not BW's. There is a long walkway with a nice visable line on it before the steps, you know, the one you want to knock him off of...well here's you hint, tank him on the line, have all standing on the line, IN LINE, so that when one gets knocked back, you go to the stairs or back the oposite direction, not off the edge. If you do this, omg wait, HE IS ALREADY WHERE HE NEEDS TO BE when you need to knock him off. you just have to execute two boots and you win. If that is too difficult for you to execute, go back to pokemon or wherever you came from.

 

It has nothing to do with skill, it has nothing to do with "dur how do i press buttons"

 

It was "i have a knockback on a short cooldown and he has a long cooldown knockback and the other two don't have a knockback at all, Oh **** we ****ed up the timing/he glitched on the wall/why isn't he following us when out of LoS? and now have to just sit and wait it out for the cooldown to pass because we didn't have the "correct comp" for something as unimportant as a normal mode dungeon"

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I did it tonight and our Bounty Hunters knockdown didnt do a thing to Malgus.

 

The biggest problem with the instance is rather that you gotta plow through 2-300 weak and strong trash. I find it killing the momentum of the sweet story in there. Sure, I get it that he's trying to do a coupe detat and got an army, but I got hit by trash fatigue (yes I remember all the worst trash memories you have).

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The story was actually a bigger problem for me than the mechanics. Malgus's whole thing is that he's trying to create a more inclusive, alien-friendly Empire...a sentiment that everyone in my party agreed with. Yet we had no option to join or support him, even though he'd be a much better leader than the idiots currently sitting on the Dark Council.
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No actually I didn't I went with a completely fresh group who hadn't done the ilum or emperor instance at all and hadn't heard anything about it.

 

So you were even less prepared than I thought. You went into a flashpoint without knowing anything about the mechanics of the fight. That's not better, it's worse.

 

When I went into this instance for the first time ever, I had seen youtube videos of the encounter and told the rest of the group( a guild group) how it had to be done. We did it the first time. It is not at all a bad mechanic. It simply requires you to have the right composition and to pull malgus to that edge before you actually hit the point where he becomes invulnerable, as it is difficult to pull him with him channeling the lightning. That being said, we still managed to pull him and knock him off the ledge and into the abyss, completing the instance.

 

This isn't WoW, where everyone can just come right into the instance without having seen a boss and just stomp the whole thing. There is some flesh on some of these encounters.

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It has nothing to do with skill, it has nothing to do with "dur how do i press buttons"

 

It was "i have a knockback on a short cooldown and he has a long cooldown knockback and the other two don't have a knockback at all, Oh **** we ****ed up the timing/he glitched on the wall/why isn't he following us when out of LoS? and now have to just sit and wait it out for the cooldown to pass because we didn't have the "correct comp" for something as unimportant as a normal mode dungeon"

 

I see how it is. Instead of you just didn't do it right, Malgus glitched on the wall. LOL, that's like "my dog ate my homework". Come on, seriously. That walkway has a long area where you can place him and the area you fight him in is really wide. It would be pretty hard to glitch on the wall or whatnot :p.

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So you were even less prepared than I thought. You went into a flashpoint without knowing anything about the mechanics of the fight. That's not better, it's worse.

 

When I went into this instance for the first time ever, I had seen youtube videos of the encounter and told the rest of the group( a guild group) how it had to be done. We did it the first time. It is not at all a bad mechanic. It simply requires you to have the right composition and to pull malgus to that edge before you actually hit the point where he becomes invulnerable, as it is difficult to pull him with him channeling the lightning. That being said, we still managed to pull him and knock him off the ledge and into the abyss, completing the instance.

 

This isn't WoW, where everyone can just come right into the instance without having seen a boss and just stomp the whole thing. There is some flesh on some of these encounters.

 

Erhm, thats exactly as wow-raiding. Check the video, mimic it, loot.

Tor got way cooler boss fights, but they arent more challenging. To kill Malgus is to think about Vader and the Emperor in the third movie.

Edited by AlistairC
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This isn't WoW, where everyone can just come right into the instance without having seen a boss and just stomp the whole thing. There is some flesh on some of these encounters.

 

I can count the number of times I've wiped on a boss in a flash point in this game on one hand, even not knowing what's expected of me, even with the Directive 7 flashpoint last boss.

 

I don't know what kind of point you're trying to make. I'm not asking for the game to be dumbed down, I'm saying to remove the two knockback mechanic to just one knockback. It doesn't change the dynamics of the fight at all and makes it less frustrating with the current systems.

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I did it tonight and our Bounty Hunters knockdown didnt do a thing to Malgus.

 

The biggest problem with the instance is rather that you gotta plow through 2-300 weak and strong trash. I find it killing the momentum of the sweet story in there. Sure, I get it that he's trying to do a coupe detat and got an army, but I got hit by trash fatigue (yes I remember all the worst trash memories you have).

 

Your Merc was doing it wrong. I've personally knocked Malgus off the platform myself solo as a Mercenary. No one else in the group even had to use a knockback.

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Bioware has been big on trying to say that you should play whatever class (and bring into instances) whatever classes you want... hence the lack of bloodlust like mechanics, etc.

Yet, here this instance is that requires two knockbacks.

It's not like we had a warning or a fair chance of knowing that two knockbacks would be required.

Anyway, we spent two hours doing this and the previous FP back to back. It was really crappy that we had to dump a player to down the lass boss.

Shame on you, Bioware.

Edited by Cootie
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I vehemently disagree. This is one of the least bugged FPs in the first place, and the mechanic is easy enough to do, and has a lot of "cool" factor to it.

 

If there really are a lot of class makeups that don't have a knockback (are there?), then they should fix that instead.

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Bioware have stated several times that they want each class type to be equally viable. All tanks should be equally viable, all healers and so on.

 

If you have to have a certain class or certain spec advanced class for a boss mechanic where an alternative literally cannot complete the content - that is strongly against what they have intended.

 

I'm all for challenging boss fights, mechanics, even tweaking specs to accomplish things. But I do think the impact of the current FE requirements (especially on normal) is more of a bad thing than a good for the community and the game itself.

 

"Looking for 1 DPS for False Emperor, must have a knockback" Isn't something you want to see in general.

Edited by Hessen
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I don't know the FP but when Malgus goes into this chain of lightning or whatever it is, why is knockback the only thing that breaks it? My smuggler has a groin kick and an interrupt spell, why would those not work as well?
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