He hits like a truck even on fully geared 75 with augments, even if you don't stand in water. The only way to survive this fight for the unfortunate soul that tanking him is to constantly be on the move between kolto stations.

Personally I don't mind some challenge. but this particular fight is much harder then any other on Veteran. Inexperienced, undergeared and lowlevel players are gonna be decimated.

Nothing wrong with avoiding the boss and using the supplied healing stations.

Not facetanking the boss is the mechanic.

Just like not facetanking the eye lazer boss in maelstrom is also the mechanic.

Both those fights will one shot melee with little warning but the mechanic is clear so while one person runs for their life, everyone else beats on the boss

Nothing wrong with avoiding the boss and using the supplied healing stations.

 

Not facetanking the boss is the mechanic.

 

Just like not facetanking the eye lazer boss in maelstrom is also the mechanic.

 

Both those fights will one shot melee with little warning but the mechanic is clear so while one person runs for their life, everyone else beats on the boss

No. This is different. In Maelstorm at least boss has 1 one-shotting ability, that he uses once in a while.

Here everything Ortuno does hurt like hell. So you are kiting him the entire fight, On top of this there is flow mechanic, adds and he sometimes stuns you for full measure. Hell, I think he even has Saber Throw sometimes so even distance cant save you.

This is all perfectly fine for a HM mode. Veteran, not so much.

I am sure you are doing something wrong here...

I just beat Ortuno in a three man squad along with one lowbie and a comp.

(One dropped group after blaming lowbie for wiping at first try, duh)

I am sure you are doing something wrong here...

I just beat Ortuno in a three man squad along with one lowbie and a comp.

(One dropped group after blaming lowbie for wiping at first try, duh)

You are missing my point. I am not saying he is unbeateble. I am saying it's harder then usual stuff you see in veteran fp.,

You are missing my point. I am not saying he is unbeateble. I am saying it's harder then usual stuff you see in veteran fp.,

Well,. FYI in 6.0 all contents ARE supposed to be harder.

In case you missed but lot of solo things are broken right now due to this notion of making contents harder.

And I am one those people who may not enjoy this but have no problem either.

I am not saying that you need to l2p. However I cannot stress that you need to be lot more watchful when engaging with mobs/boss etc.

I hope that you will be able to get a little comfort to know that you are not alone in this situation. So its live and learn I guess and possibly enjoy if you can.

I just did Manaan a few days ago with two first-time-in-Manaan-FP'ers**. After a couple of wipes for the newbies to learn the mechanics, we had no problem with Ortuno. The final boss also took a bit of mechanic learning but we finished without another wipe.

** I don't exactly recall the make-up of the group, but I think it was 3 DPS and a tank, all 72-75. Or it may have been 3 DPS and a healer.

I just don't do Manaan, because I hate these mechanics & this boss.

Yes, my chars survived it a few times, but more times I experienced failure ...

Well,. FYI in 6.0 all contents ARE supposed to be harder.

In case you missed but lot of solo things are broken right now due to this notion of making contents harder.

No; some content has been nerfed (5.0-era content, which was the only content that needed nerfs, or at least needed nerfs the most), and I know Umbara has been nerfed.

However, the difficulty bumps are very, very uneven, with some of them being just bosses having bigger health bars (such as Czerka Labs VM and MM) but with no increase in damage output, while others got large damage output increases (False Emp, Maelstrom in both VM and MM, Tython and Rishi, albeit in MM only).

It is obviously over-tuned to anyone who has had the misfortune to end up as the 'tank', doubly so if they have played the game long enough to recall this fight when it was new (standing in stupid killed - not non-avoidable damage).

Of course there are those who think years old vet mode flashpoints are progression end game content, and that players should expect to wipe repeatedly to beat them, and they will defend the tuning.

Surprised, I am not.

But hey, I have plenty of alts and if and when Manaan pops, I generally drop and queue up again on another alt.

Just not worth the risk of a repair bill and even if the run is successful, not fun when I end up the tank and spend the entire fight running for my life to click kolto stations to save me rather than being able to play my actual character.

As I read complaints of having to perform a tank-like role of controlling the boss... I'm reminded of a thread complaining about lack of tanks and healers.

I can't relate.

Never role tanked in my life yet I still tank most vet mode fps anyway as a DPS.

The alternative is to "enjoy" endless incompetence and slow progress through every FP pop because no one thinks it's their "job" to control the fight or do mechanics.

If you're not up to being a leader in vet mode FP then so be it, maybe quitting the FP is the right thing for the group.

However the mechanics are clear and I don't believe there is any class that is incapable. Someone just has to have the confidence to step up and control the fight with the tools given to them.

As I read complaints of having to perform a tank-like role of controlling the boss... I'm reminded of a thread complaining about lack of tanks and healers.

 

I can't relate.

 

Never role tanked in my life yet I still tank most vet mode fps anyway as a DPS.

 

The alternative is to "enjoy" endless incompetence and slow progress through every FP pop because no one thinks it's their "job" to control the fight or do mechanics.

 

If you're not up to being a leader in vet mode FP then so be it, maybe quitting the FP is the right thing for the group.

 

However the mechanics are clear and I don't believe there is any class that is incapable. Someone just has to have the confidence to step up and control the fight with the tools given to them.

There is a difference in tanking a boss (as in having the tools to tank - keep threat, mitigate damage) and being the default 'tank' because of your level of damage and then taking a level of unavoidable damage that causes one to spend the entire fight running across a room over and over at near death to click the next blue glowing object.

But ok, if you feel running around a room from blue glowing object to blue glowing object while at low HP is a fun and exciting mechanic that really tests you as a player, challenges your confidence, and makes you feel like a leader, who am I to tell you otherwise.

I'll stick with MM FPs and HM / NiM operations where my clear lack of ability and confidence and leadership in running from kolto to kolto in vet FPs will make me an asset.

Why tell me you're a NiM raider.

And also tell me basic mechanics are beneath you.

NiM is all about mechanics and following the fight script for every single role even while facerolling the keyboard as a dps you must do X weird stuff or wipe the operation.

I'm the wrong person to impress by saying you've done NiM content.

All I'm saying is, the mechanics are easy and can be done by anyone. It doesn't make you less of a player to do mechanics required for a fight. Completely trivial for a player that does NiM content.

Just not worth the risk of a repair bill and even if the run is successful, not fun when I end up the tank and spend the entire fight running for my life to click kolto stations to save me rather than being able to play my actual character.

Seriously? You're worried about the cost of a repair bill? I think I can recall a time, back in about 2013, when I actually couldn't afford a repair. Since then, I don't even note the cost. I mean, before a repair, my character has ~10 million credits, and after the repair, my character has ….. ~10 million credits. 🤔

I know that as a tank, you want to "tank", but you should consider a few things:

1. There's no real "need" for a tank in a Veteran FP, as is apparent from the fact that 4 DPS can usually do the vet FPs just fine without even anyone "acting" as a tank. If you are concerned about not being able to "tank" and/or having no healer, and/or all the rest of the usual PUG FP stuff, then maybe you should just not group through GF.

2. Running from kolto to kolto may not be fun, but is that really an excuse for selfishly dropping group?

3. Is the relatively trivial repair cost really worth selfishly dropping group?

4. Is the relatively trivial reward for selecting "all" FPs really worth not deselecting the FPs you don't wish to do and then risking wanting to drop?

I am sure you are doing something wrong here...

I just beat Ortuno in a three man squad along with one lowbie and a comp.

(One dropped group after blaming lowbie for wiping at first try, duh)

Actually, it's MUCH easier with 3 people and a comp.

Or 3 people and a healer.

Or 1 tank, 2 dps a healer.

Or 2 good dps, one lvl 10 dps and a healer.

See a common thread here?

As I read complaints of having to perform a tank-like role of controlling the boss... I'm reminded of a thread complaining about lack of tanks and healers.

 

I can't relate.

 

Never role tanked in my life yet I still tank most vet mode fps anyway as a DPS.

 

The alternative is to "enjoy" endless incompetence and slow progress through every FP pop because no one thinks it's their "job" to control the fight or do mechanics.

 

If you're not up to being a leader in vet mode FP then so be it, maybe quitting the FP is the right thing for the group.

 

However the mechanics are clear and I don't believe there is any class that is incapable. Someone just has to have the confidence to step up and control the fight with the tools given to them.

"I don't believe there is any class that is incapable."

Are you talking about a group of full lvl 75 dps? Or a group with 1 lvl 75 dps, 2 at level 35 and one 55? Remember, VM isn't just for all roles, it's also for many different levels, which likely don't have most of the defensives needed to deal with the damage from Ortuno OR the adds, which also hit quite hard.

Personally, I've completed Manaan many times with 4 dps groups on certain classes. Other runs have ended in epic failure. There are only so many kolto stations after all. I'm always the "tank," even when I'm a sorc or sniper, lol.

To survive, you need:

a. mobility (most snipers do poorly when forced to tank Ortuno)

b. defensives (this is where sorcs, maras and operatives have issues)

c. taunts (if you want your level 30 teammates to survive, that is)

In other words, the fight is much easier as a lower-level jugg, merc or sin than for other classes. I haven't run it as PT, so can't speak for that.

I think the main problem with vet Ortuno is based on how good your teamates are. With most of the vet flashpoints a good dps can almost solo the bosses, so if you're running with 3 lowbies, or max levels with bad dps, you can still clear the flashpoints.

With ortuno if you're the main dps, you're reduced to pretty much running for your life from kolto to kolto, and relying on the other 3 to do the dps on both the boss and the adds. You can't both fank ortuno and also dps him down.

This doesn't work well unless there is as least one other good dps on the team.

"I don't believe there is any class that is incapable."

 

Are you talking about a group of full lvl 75 dps? Or a group with 1 lvl 75 dps, 2 at level 35 and one 55? Remember, VM isn't just for all roles, it's also for many different levels, which likely don't have most of the defensives needed to deal with the damage from Ortuno OR the adds, which also hit quite hard.

I'm talking about people bailing their 75's of assorted classes from whatever group. But now you mention it...

...this is not a low level fp so you can't reasonably say it should be on the level of hammer station which is realistic for a huge range of incompetence.

My level 35 scoundrel gets to see: Athiss, Cademimu, Hammer Station, Mandalorian Raiders, Maelstrom Prison, Taral V and Kuat Drives as VM only. You get to Q for a couple of FP to start with then more unlock as you level up.

DoM is one of the level 53 flashpoints. Then there's the level 70 flashpoints above that which demand an even higher levelled character. Despite level 70 bolster the content is still real level gated.

I'm of the opinion that it's unhelpful for actually faceroll flashpoints at low real level requirement to give the same rewards as the high real level veteran mode flashpoints.

As it stands we get threads about people ditching VM flashpoints on their max level chars because the one they got is too hard for them or it's too easy for them. I find both reasons terrible but so be it.

Whatever their hangups about the difficulty, there's still the same unifying factor. They all have these flashpoints in their GF selection because of greed. Then they get them and ditch the group

I think the main problem with vet Ortuno is based on how good your teamates are. With most of the vet flashpoints a good dps can almost solo the bosses, so if you're running with 3 lowbies, or max levels with bad dps, you can still clear the flashpoints.

 

With ortuno if you're the main dps, you're reduced to pretty much running for your life from kolto to kolto, and relying on the other 3 to do the dps on both the boss and the adds. You can't both fank ortuno and also dps him down.

 

This doesn't work well unless there is as least one other good dps on the team.

This is the issue with the tuning in a nutshell.

Ortuno doesn't need to be nerfed into oblivion, or made as faceroll as say the droid boss in RR, but it needs to be reasonably possible to beat the fight even when half the group is incompetent.

And right now if you end up as the tank, you will play run for your life the whole time and have to rely on the others to pick up and kill adds quickly, as well as eventually kill the boss (and he has a good bit of HP now relatively speaking).

And even then you need to be able to play your character well to stay alive - especially if you play classes with less mobility or sustained ability to mitigate damage while moving.

I've done Depths of Manaan many times. Only some of the time have I seen a tank (real or fake) running from kolto to kolto. I assume it depends upon various things, but it's not always "run from kolto to kolto".

Ofc not.

It's more like take one kolto while kiting 3-4 pools I can't recall how many and then in the low damage interval while the boss AFKs immune you pick up another kolto and wait.

But if you wanna get all dramatic then you gotta spice up the description.

It's more like take one kolto while kiting 3-4 pools I can't recall how many and then in the low damage interval while the boss AFKs immune you pick up another kolto and wait.

Why do you feel you need to "kite pools", or is that just an expression?. I think the only time you need to worry about pools is when he does Flow. And then it's best not to have pools spread all around.

Also, I've noticed that in Manaan (and every other vet FP) people tend to overuse the koltos. Some people waste a kolto when their health is only down like 10-25%. Then, when you really need one, they're all used up. Wait until at least 50% to use a kolto.