I sincerely hope you (Bioware) do not intend to wait until the "expansion" to properly tend to Commandos/Mercs and/or PvP in general, because if you do, that will be one of the worst and most gross mistakes you will make. You will most definitely lose, at the very least, most if not all your Mando/Merc players within the next month or two.

What Merc players are left? These issues don't affect sub-50 Merc players. Or lev 50 pve Merc players. This is an issue only for lev 50 pvp Merc players. Of which there are what, 10? 20? Across all servers? They've strangled the life out of the class. Their final solution will be when they offer advanced class switching and then they can claim, those that stay a Merc must be happy with the class so BW doesn't need to buff them. There is simply a fundamental disagreement here. The devs think Merc dps is OP. The player base think Merc dps is the worst class in the game. That disagreement isn't going to be resolved. And that is why the problem won't be solved.

We need an escape, but if they make it our new high level trainable skill I'm going to be very put out. Not surprised. But it'd still be total crap when we still lack a good offensive cooldown.

Mercs do fine on offense, quit trying to buff what doesn't need to be buffed. They said they're looking into some sort of escape so leave it at that. The dps is fine.

What Merc players are left? These issues don't affect sub-50 Merc players. Or lev 50 pve Merc players. This is an issue only for lev 50 pvp Merc players. Of which there are what, 10? 20? Across all servers? They've strangled the life out of the class. Their final solution will be when they offer advanced class switching and then they can claim, those that stay a Merc must be happy with the class so BW doesn't need to buff them. There is simply a fundamental disagreement here. The devs think Merc dps is OP. The player base think Merc dps is the worst class in the game. That disagreement isn't going to be resolved. And that is why the problem won't be solved.

There is definitely more than 20 lvl 50 PvP merc/mandos across all the servers.

It's not the DPS that most seem to have an issue with, most seem to agree that damage potential is fine.

It's how that DPS is applied in WZs, steady damage over a long time with burst requiring a large amount of set up, the fact that most of our attacks can be very easily shut down, and that we are a ranged class with no real way to stay at range.

Mercs do fine on offense, quit trying to buff what doesn't need to be buffed. They said they're looking into some sort of escape so leave it at that. The dps is fine.

No, they do not do fine on offense. If and only if left to free cast their damage is ok, just ok, not amazing or excellent but simply ok. Being intelligent human beings we know a free casting Commando/Merc is not likely to happen, this effectively cuts the Mando/Merc's damage by approximately 40%, assuming a moderately skilled player, with moderate gear and moderate experience, paying moderate attention to the casting Mando/Merc; this now puts the Mando/Merc's damage in a disgustingly low state. I've seen you lobbying on several other threads against Mercs when you obviously do not play one, had you, even just to level 20 you would clearly see the class is no where near viable, especially not in Ranked play. Where you get the idea the class is, absolutely baffles me but you need to stop and mind your own business because you clearly have no idea how the Mando/Merc class works. Even the best players of this class, those of which are managing to push the class beyond it's limits and somehow mustering mediocre performance (which is all the class is capable of at the moment), many of those same people which have posted in threads like this one, if not this very same one will agree that you have no idea what you are talking about.

I, unlike you, actually play the Commando class in all three of it's specs in fully optimized and augmented WH gear. I even managed an active and competent PvP guild on my server, we regularly run premades and queue for Ranked whenever possible. Out of our entire server (Jedi Covenant, Empire side included) there are only 2-3 active Commando/Mercenaries in Ranked matches, 1 of which is in the process of rerolling to a Sentinel, the other contemplating quitting altogether if he doesn't see any adequate changes for Mandos/Mercs on the horizon, and the last one (myself) am in the process of re rolling into a Powertech. When I rolled an ALT on that Mando/Merc's faction to whisper the player and ask why they no longer play the class they responded with very much the same gist of this entire thread. The same general frustration and disdain for the class resonates from up and coming Mando/Merc players as well, when whispered they respond, again, with many of the same responses found in this thread and many proceed to admit that they are either already re rolling, quitting, or have relegated their Mando/Merc into nothing more than a Commendation farming ALT for their new mains.

I actually got into an argument with a sage bragging how much more he healed than me. Like that is real hard, with that nice AOE heal dropped on the floor. He also was trying to convince me that mercs can tank.

Where do these people come from?

I think half the reason we still have the class problems we do is that most of the player base has obviously never played the gimpiness that is a merc.

We could not get much worse... well.. maybe

Mercs do fine on offense, quit trying to buff what doesn't need to be buffed. They said they're looking into some sort of escape so leave it at that. The dps is fine.

Polite assassin honestly you are an idiot. I see you post all the time and I get sick of it since apraently you don't even play in ranged classes. Merc dps is fine from the pure perspective of the damage done by attacks, but you aren't considering the environment these attacks are done in.

When even a 2 foot tall box in pvp counts as LOS or a small dip in the ground can make a cast cancel. You might not even realize it, but it does. When you count in the multiple ways most classes can stop casts, in combat stealth, interrupts (force charge), Mez, knock-backs and pulls casting isn't very easy, its quite the opposite. If pvp dps merc was like fighting an operations boss where you can freely cast to create damage it would be fine. But in pvp you are fighting real people and varying situations where LOS can even occur by accident and where getting a cast off in near impossible under pressure, its not fine.

Perhaps you should see it from the mercs perspective. Even if they are given another escape it won't change the situation the mercenary class is in. They need more than survivability buffs, they need ways to actually accomplish their casting or they will never be viable.

bioware will do nothing.

the sad but unfortunate truth

Will we be viable for rated pvp if we get a escape mechanism or will we be just "ok" for normal warzones?

I dont consider this class viable for pvp until its viable for ranked warzones, as it stands we are the only advanced class that is not welcome in ranked warzones no matter the spec we choose.

I still don't understand why BW nerfed our only snare, which is more over was awfully designed. Adding 2 sec snare to autoshot is something that lays beyond my comprehension. I have to deal crap damage to keep snare on. WHAT AN IDIOT thought it was a fine idea!? And later they nerfed it to 30% movement slow. /facepalm WT*, i asked myself. Now i have no even a slight chance to kite melees. We were shi*ty before and now became even worse.

As for the damage. My highest crit with 950-1270 damage, 79% crit multiplier, 1900 aim and 970 tech bonus damage is about 4.9k on full WH sorc. Meanwhile I get 6.6k-7.3k smashes, and 5.6k bladestorms (rep variant) each time i meet a well geared juggernaut/mara. Where's justice? We can't kite, we can't run away, we can't root, we can't burst coz of despellable skills... all we can is dealing average damage and die in seconds, that's it.

I love my class and having 3 alts i'm still sure i won't leave it. I play random wzs and feel more or less fine there coz we play against crap mostly. Meeting a really fine premade i feel a paper dummy. No fun, no joy, no satisfaction, nothing positive in commando gameplay. Makeb is the last chance. If they keep fuc*ing us with their nerfs there too i'll just leave.

Why did this post fall so deep?

Mercenaries are in dire need of utility/defenses.

Fix please.

I'll just be one of the many other voices expressing frustration with this class. Here's the thing... the best dps merc/commando is grav/tracer spam, but the big problem here is that you are a standing turret. You can't do anything on the move. In a ranked WZ, you are toast. The assault/pyro build is what all dps commandos/mercs should be rolling because your three primary attacks are instant cast. If no one is hitting you, an aresenal/gunnery will out dps a pyro/assault anytime... that's what you see that spec in PVE. So... in order for us to have an sort of chance to live, we have to give up a good amount of dps for a build.

My main is a commando. I put out numbers that keep me at the top of the charts. What separates the good commandos/mercs from the bad ones is knowing how to stay alive and maximize your uptime. I have had a number of people ask me my build and how I fight because the numbers I put out are big for a commando, but again... it's not really about rotation... it's about surviving. Every WZ is different in it's "mood" but all things equal, I can easily go over 600k. I've had as high as 863k in a pug just the other day. I have had plenty in the 700s. The point is ... we bring nothing to the table for ranked.

I have a sage healer that is equally geared to my commando. Bother are half WH/half EWH. I ALWAYS get asked to do ranked wzs on my healer. Depending on our group comp, I can either go salvation spec or bubblestun (which I think will be nerfed soon). I have healed as much as 750k-ish in bubblestun and over 1M in salvation. Both builds are useful and together, they are deadly to the other team. I rarely EVER get to do ranked wzs on my commando because teams simply don't want them. No springs, no pulls, no leaps, no nothing. Yah... I can knock people off a ledge, but woopie... many classes can do similar things and also have additional utility. The other day, the group I was in really needed a dps for ranked and I got off my healer and came on as my commando. People were surprised at my damage, but again... that's not the biggest problem with the class. The reason I had good damange was that we had two solid healers and the other team was focused on them the whole time leaving me free to do as I please for the most part.

I guess my point is that it's simply frustrating that BW has done nothing to improve our utility. I hate that I have to do ranked on my sage healer all the time because no one wants a commando. It shouldn't be that way. What I do know and from playing MMOs for a long time, there's always a flavor of the month type class. Right now it's sent/jugg smashers (and I have one that I play for that reason), but I also know that they'll get nerfed big time in the future. I'm waiting for the day that commandos become the flavor of the month and everyone races to level one... because let's be honest, there's not a ton of us comapred to other classes.

Look back at wow rated BGs. I remember certain classes being OP. Tree heals, rogues, holy pallys, etc. But I also remember that thigns changed and it caused certain classes to be used more than others. I truly belive that one day commando dps will be the flavor of the month... just when... I have no idea. I love the class and love dps'ing with them, so I'm not giving up.

All I want for Christmas is Utility!!!

Oh and one last thing to add... which is very important... 1 v 1.

I can solo plenty of people, but against an equally geared/skilled mele, I'm toast. After using CDs, I can't do a ton more. I can kill plenty of baddies out there and any class of them... that's fine... but equally geared/skilled people should be far more balanced.

Dear Bioware,

I would like to have utility and survivablity for Christmas.

Love, Commandos.

Dear Bioware,

 

I would like to have utility and survivablity for Christmas.

 

Love, Commandos.

Ditto.

Also i realized something. All the Repub/Imp classes are mirrored right? But there is ONE solid difference: Bounty Hunters have a Jetpack and Commandos don't. What do you do in that situation? Yeah, Bioware has a team of people on that same question right now. LOL

Ditto.

 

Also i realized something. All the Repub/Imp classes are mirrored right? But there is ONE solid difference: Bounty Hunters have a Jetpack and Commandos don't. What do you do in that situation? Yeah, Bioware has a team of people on that same question right now. LOL

But we have this magic non-force-running-on-air skill from tanking tree...

Pyro: instant casts, significant defensive CD

Arsenal: uninterruptable, +melee defense, significant defensive CD.

healer: i have no idea.

that's it, for my wishlist of fixes.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=562010

some good ideas, but a bit too complex for what is needed, from my point of view.

when i look at my Assault Spec VG vs. my Pyro Merc the main differences are simply: uninterruptable, mobile, burst damage. also, the ability to proc HiB without taking special precautions or getting interrupted.

all 61's Merc/PT vs. 61/58/58 modded VG, Merc is 100-200 DPS lower on training dummy. that is ideal situation, not moving, no interrupts, no kiting, etc.

in PvP, that can easily be significantly less, and will be for a merc, not nearly as much on VG. (no need to cast, CONSTANT movement)

easiest fixes to Merc are the simplest.

Merc/PT- remove cast on Powershot. still "weapons" damage, meaning tanks mitigate, plus uses non-tech accuracy (in no way OP). add a defensive CD, or improve current shield (i did like the physics immunity on shield).

Merc/Ars- mirror snipers. uniterruptable casting, improved defense (if no jump immunity).

instead of rewriting the game, nerfing classes, etc., take the successful classes, see what makes them successful, and adjust the others apporpriately.

no need to reinvent the wheel. how these changes can be made? just change the abilities themselves, or adjust thru AC choices.

i've since stripped all my mods from my Merc and sent to my VG. i'm done. it's almost maddening that my VG (who has 11 fewer 61 mods than my BH) is by far superior to my Merc in every way, minus healing.

my patience has been tested and defeated.

Well, I'll be very disappointed if 1.7 pops on the PTS and there are no improvements made to Commandos/Mercs.

i will be too!

all the time, effort, and HK parts , only to be forced into early retirement (BH pun).

no reason to play my Merc when my VG can do it better. PvE or PvP.

 

some good ideas, but a bit too complex for what is needed, from my point of view.

 

when i look at my Assault Spec VG vs. my Pyro Merc the main differences are simply: uninterruptable, mobile, burst damage. also, the ability to proc HiB without taking special precautions or getting interrupted.

 

all 61's Merc/PT vs. 61/58/58 modded VG, Merc is 100-200 DPS lower on training dummy. that is ideal situation, not moving, no interrupts, no kiting, etc.

 

in PvP, that can easily be significantly less, and will be for a merc, not nearly as much on VG. (no need to cast, CONSTANT movement)

 

easiest fixes to Merc are the simplest.

 

Merc/PT- remove cast on Powershot. still "weapons" damage, meaning tanks mitigate, plus uses non-tech accuracy (in no way OP). add a defensive CD, or improve current shield (i did like the physics immunity on shield).

 

Merc/Ars- mirror snipers. uniterruptable casting, improved defense (if no jump immunity).

 

instead of rewriting the game, nerfing classes, etc., take the successful classes, see what makes them successful, and adjust the others apporpriately.

 

no need to reinvent the wheel. how these changes can be made? just change the abilities themselves, or adjust thru AC choices.

 

i've since stripped all my mods from my Merc and sent to my VG. i'm done. it's almost maddening that my VG (who has 11 fewer 61 mods than my BH) is by far superior to my Merc in every way, minus healing.

 

my patience has been tested and defeated.

all of these changes would actually be incredibly simple for a professional game developer. they are, with the exception of Run and Gun, modifications to values in the code.

instant cast Power Shot makes Pyrotech a god.

as far as Arsenal, if i wanted to play a Sniper i would have rolled one to start

the line i bolded doesnt really apply to anything ive said anywhere. nerfing is not the answer, ive said that over and over. it is very easy to see why "the successful" classes are successful. the changes i suggest for Merc are to bring it up to into "the successful" group

none of my suggestions "reinvent the wheel". Run and Gun is the only new effect i suggest, and it is a melee-range only. ffs, even it its given an internal range limiter i would still take an ability like that. say it only lets you use casted abilities instantly within 10m. the entire point of Run and Gun is to allow you to fight back against melee.

The merc doesn't need any new abilities. If you recall, your first, and most worthwhile, proposal entailed simple reduction in cast times to zero for both power shot and tracer missile. Now that same idea would make Pyrotech a god? That's a drastic change of opinion.

This run and gun idea is not going to do it. You propose giving the merc a single combat ability that has use in only one combat situation against a single opponent. And as you have said, PVP is rarely a 1 vs. 1 situation. Run and gun is far too limited to provide the class with any overall benefit.