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Aim/Cunning And Snipers


Mackuss

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So absolutely everything I got over the Thanksgiving weekend had frickin cunning on it, and not Aim. It was so beyond annoying.

 

Why do you ask?

 

Because I actually did the math - I crafted a weapon with 10 Cunning on it and found another weapon with 10 Aim on it. Both had exact same base weapon damage, and both had exact same tech power. Between changing back and forth of the two, I found a couple of very interesting things:

 

1. I benefited almost triple from Aim to my ranged critical chance.

2. I benefited double from Aim to my ranged damage bonus.

 

Not to mention, it says in the UI itself, "Aim increases your aptitude with ranged weapons".

 

So the math doesn't lie, and the logic makes sense - you're using ranged weapons, Aim would help you.

 

I'm trying to correlate this to WoW, but seeing how this game is so awesome, it's hard. I will try nonetheless for people who are unknowing of exactly what I'm talking about but played WoW:

 

Remember how in WoW as a rogue Agility gave you more attack power than strength did? I don't remember/care about the real number, but let's just say for every one point of Agility you got 2.5 points of attack power. Well think of Cunning as Agility for Imperial Agents, and then there's Aim. Aim is like a super Agility for us because of our choice of weapon - ranged weapons. It's like if WoW had Agility for hunters, but then a second skill that affected your damage even further and better for the mere fact you were a hunter using ranged weapons.

 

So my question is this: is there some big reason why they deny Snipers of so much Aim? Is the reason because we would be pretty over powered if we got nothing but Aim gear?

 

P.S. Maybe you get more later on but it's still not fair I got to level 19 with 10 Aim added from all my gear combined.

 

Now that the game's "out" can someone try this for me at later levels?

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No IA gear will have Aim because Cunning is the main stat. It gives tech damage, shot damage, and crit i believe. If you saw Aim contributing more it was only to specific shots and may have been level/stat number dependent. If you are continuing to see Aim being better than I'm sure its a miscalculation that will be soon fixed.

 

On a more game breaker/cynic note, if anyone wants to try that out i'm really curious to see. But then i already played an enh shaman who had to swap from strength for agi one xpac, then used spell power weapons the next...

 

Btw any ops want to see how strength helps shivs?

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Official statements say agents use cunning.

Before you go all out collecting Aim mods and gear I would double check your aim over cunning math in game, from what I have seen in game during the recent open betas cunning is the main stat aim only adds a small amount to agents, bounty hunters however use aim as there main stat. I don't mean to sound rude but did you do the test on a BH?

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AIM - increase ranged damage FOR ALL

+some bonus stuff for Trooper/BG

 

CUNNING - increase potency of abilities for all non-jedi (BH&Trooper too)

+increase ranged damage for Smuggler/IA.

 

AIM = CUNNING in terms of ranged damage for IA/Smuggler

But AIM gives you NOTHING to complex abilities like healing, grenades.. not sure about 'power shots".

 

I dont have early access, so cant check stuff exacly.. But dont look at tooltips since there is just "general" info, without class specific buffs.

Edited by Daross
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Official statements say agents use cunning.

Before you go all out collecting Aim mods and gear I would double check your aim over cunning math in game, from what I have seen in game during the recent open betas cunning is the main stat aim only adds a small amount to agents, bounty hunters however use aim as there main stat. I don't mean to sound rude but did you do the test on a BH?

 

Yeah last I heard (had posted this thread before the wipe), and someone said they actually tried it in the last weekend test and that it was actually happening still.

 

AIM - increase ranged damage FOR ALL

+some bonus stuff for Trooper/BG

 

CUNNING - increase potency of abilities for all non-jedi (BH&Trooper too)

+increase ranged damage for Smuggler/IA.

 

AIM = CUNNING in terms of ranged damage for IA/Smuggler

But AIM gives you NOTHING to complex abilities like healing, grenades.. not sure about 'power shots".

 

I dont have early access, so cant check stuff exacly.. But dont look at tooltips since there is just "general" info, without class specific buffs.

 

I understand all that - which is why it was so surprising to me.

 

However, as soon as I get in I am planning to be an Armormech while my girlfriend will be Cybertech. I am planning (JUST FOR EXPERIMENTAL PURPOSES) to make two complete sets of nothing but moddable armor and have her make 2 entire collections of +Aim and +Cunning mods - and will experiment in game.

 

I will post my results in this thread.

Edited by Mackuss
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Please do post some results. Because it seems highly unlikely; especially since this has long been checked and stuff in beta.

 

So unless you got some solid proof that Aim indeed does increase ranged more than Cunning; ill be stacking the latter.

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Cunning improves shooting damage and tech damage. Shooting damage is in white while the tech damage is in yellow, which includes gernade attacks.

 

Quick question. Does increasing your Cunning also increase your DOT damage?

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However, as soon as I get in I am planning to be an Armormech while my girlfriend will be Cybertech. I am planning (JUST FOR EXPERIMENTAL PURPOSES) to make two complete sets of nothing but moddable armor and have her make 2 entire collections of +Aim and +Cunning mods - and will experiment in game.

 

I will post my results in this thread.

 

That would be great to find out for sure. I hope Aim is not better but would really like to know ASAP if anyone does this.

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Mouse over aim and then cunning you want cunning over aim always and there are also better secondary stats over aim.

 

This has come up every build in closed beta I've seen it come up over and over you do not want aim.

 

Every base class has 1 main stat

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I just double check in game to make sure because some new player is going to roll on aim gear and make a BH cry. Getting aim is like getting int for a rogue type of bad in wow.

 

So

Aim adds some range damage, crit

Cunning adds range damage,crit, tech damage(most of your dps), tech, crit, healing, healing crit.

 

There isn't going to be sniper rifles, medium armor with aim on it since that stat is for BHs, and they can't use sniper rifles or would want to use medium armor.

 

I can not stress we are all about cunning, I get that real snipers would want aim but this is a game and mousing over the stats would have stop the OP from making this thread. Also as you level you start using your "free attack" less and less.

 

It also says in the codex that cunning is our main stat.

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I was in the beta stress test in November, playing Smuggler. In there, mousing over Aim and Cunning revealed that Cunning contributes to more secondary attributes (yep, it is truly Smuggler's main stat then), while Aim contributes to less, but more significantly. So if I were a Smuggler who would like to throw away all her tech power and trade it for more crit/base damage, I may have done well with Aim taken over Cunning.

 

I am glad the option is there and having a main stat does not mean you have to rise that one stat and no other... bad thing is there was no Aim gear around to equip, so the option was kind of hypothetical. :rolleyes:

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I just double check in game to make sure because some new player is going to roll on aim gear and make a BH cry. Getting aim is like getting int for a rogue type of bad in wow.

 

So

Aim adds some range damage, crit

Cunning adds range damage,crit, tech damage(most of your dps), tech, crit, healing, healing crit.

 

There isn't going to be sniper rifles, medium armor with aim on it since that stat is for BHs, and they can't use sniper rifles or would want to use medium armor.

 

I can not stress we are all about cunning, I get that real snipers would want aim but this is a game and mousing over the stats would have stop the OP from making this thread. Also as you level you start using your "free attack" less and less.

 

It also says in the codex that cunning is our main stat.

 

 

Exactly!

 

The only time it is acceptable to have an "aim" stat on any piece of gear for an agent is when you are L5 and the only pair of bracers you've seen drop have had aim on it.

 

Cunning is all around better.

 

(as a side not, there have been some bugs with tooltip displays reported at some points during beta. Be sure to check the damage on something in game)

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Let me shed some light on this.

 

Waaaaaaay back in an early, early build of the game the system used two stats for every class. You can try modding for Aim at 50 if you really want.

 

However, I cannot discourage you enough from trying to stack Aim while you level. It made the leveling experience unnecessarily painful for me about seven beta builds ago when I first tried it (when you could easily obtain Aim mods as quest rewards). I ended up gimp in a variety of unexpected ways (significantly lower Endurance, for example).

 

Be aware that if you attempt to gear yourself in a way not supported by design intent, you will fall behind in at least one unexpected area (and often two or more). I say this from experience. Any temporary benefit you gained from Aim-stacking would either:

 

a. be lost as soon as it gets patched (I have not once seen something truly 'broken' stay in the game) or

b. be totally outweighed by costs you could not have predicted.

 

Both have happened to me repeatedly in beta. That "nonstandard play produces unexpected costs" has been so consistent, in fact, that I feel totally comfortable in telling you that Cunning is the way to go.

 

Hold off on experimentation until you're 50.

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I just double check in game to make sure because some new player is going to roll on aim gear and make a BH cry. Getting aim is like getting int for a rogue type of bad in wow.

 

So

Aim adds some range damage, crit

Cunning adds range damage,crit, tech damage(most of your dps), tech, crit, healing, healing crit.

 

There isn't going to be sniper rifles, medium armor with aim on it since that stat is for BHs, and they can't use sniper rifles or would want to use medium armor.

 

I can not stress we are all about cunning, I get that real snipers would want aim but this is a game and mousing over the stats would have stop the OP from making this thread. Also as you level you start using your "free attack" less and less.

 

It also says in the codex that cunning is our main stat.

 

Everything you just said is mind numbingly obvious, as well as mind numbingly pointless. At no point was I implying that everyone should go Aim and that, lo and behond, I found the Higgs particle in SWTOR - but if it wasn't obvious enough for you, I'll spell it out: I was merely bringing to light that there may be an unintended "bug" of a sort where the sheer contribution of Aim still applied to Agents/Smugglers - maybe it was supposed to be turned off or something when being applied to Agents/Smuggler, I don't know, but the fact of the matter was that the math did not lie. Grant it, they've patched a lot since the Thanksgiving weekend, so we will see.

 

Again, I understand what the codex says, and what Cunning does - I can read. But apparently you have trouble doing so - as I said that the sheer contribution that I got from Aim so out-weighed what Cunning gave me that I saw on average, 100s more on my moves and crits. Simply put, math does not lie.

 

This was not something I thumbed over while I was drunk, or something funny like that. It was undeniable, indelible, and factual. HOWEVER, to reiterate for the 3rd time, as you clearly didn't get it from one read through in my OP, that they've patched a lot since that weekend, and maybe they've tweaked the Aim contribution towards Smugglers/Agents.

Edited by Mackuss
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With a title of "Aim/Cunning And Snipers " in the AC boards and not the bug forums your going to confuse new players that's why I posted

 

Let me repeat for new players do not get aim gear, one time we use aim but we talking months and months ago.

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Small update:

 

I only got in today so I'm still lower level - me and my girlfriend just recently got our professions - Cybertech and Armormech - and will work up the sets as I said in the thread.

 

I did however note that Ambush is indeed a ranged type of ability - not a Tech, as someone said before. So, if the Aim contribution is still evident, it will only stand to reason that it will contribute to my DPS that much more than Cunning.

 

On a side note I did experiment with whatever Aim gear I've gotten at the moment and...as before, it contributed almost triple to my Critical Chance, and double to my base damage done my main hand weapon.

 

I will get working on scavenging those supplies and get bigger numbers out and report back to this thread.

 

Agent - out.

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Interesting...I'm posting this partially to subscribe to the thread, as I'm wondering how this will turn out...

 

I currently have an IA Sniper (lvl 12 so far) and did notice that most gear had Cunning and Endurance.

 

 

Not at all sure how the mods and such work yet, but I'm wondering if you can mod an orange armor/weapon to have stat boosts focused on Cunning and Aim...

 

As opposed to the apparent current mix of Cunning and Endurance.

 

 

Also, I’m going Armstech, so I could theoretically test out the comparison between Aim and Cunning on my sniper rifle.

 

 

I wonder if aim benefits some skills more than others…I don’t think it would benefit the grenade/explosive skills…

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Small update:

 

I only got in today so I'm still lower level - me and my girlfriend just recently got our professions - Cybertech and Armormech - and will work up the sets as I said in the thread.

 

I did however note that Ambush is indeed a ranged type of ability - not a Tech, as someone said before. So, if the Aim contribution is still evident, it will only stand to reason that it will contribute to my DPS that much more than Cunning.

 

On a side note I did experiment with whatever Aim gear I've gotten at the moment and...as before, it contributed almost triple to my Critical Chance, and double to my base damage done my main hand weapon.

 

I will get working on scavenging those supplies and get bigger numbers out and report back to this thread.

 

Agent - out.

 

Cunning increases Tech Damage, Ranged Damage and Healing which is EVERYTHING an agent can do. (For whoever asked earlier; dots are tech damage).

 

Last I checked Aim and Cunning provided the exact same bonus to ranged (but only ranged so cunning is still better due to the tech boost).

So if you happen to stumble upon some solid evidence that this is untrue; do post screenshots.

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Cunning increases Tech Damage, Ranged Damage and Healing which is EVERYTHING an agent can do. (For whoever asked earlier; dots are tech damage).

 

Last I checked Aim and Cunning provided the exact same bonus to ranged (but only ranged so cunning is still better due to the tech boost).

So if you happen to stumble upon some solid evidence that this is untrue; do post screenshots.

 

Everything I've seen about Imperial Agents has said the same, that Cunning is just hands down the way to go.

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Cunning increases Tech Damage, Ranged Damage and Healing which is EVERYTHING an agent can do. (For whoever asked earlier; dots are tech damage).

 

Last I checked Aim and Cunning provided the exact same bonus to ranged (but only ranged so cunning is still better due to the tech boost).

So if you happen to stumble upon some solid evidence that this is untrue; do post screenshots.

 

Yeah I think there was a massive misinterpretation to my whole venture here. It's my fault.

 

What I'm SUSPECTING that I'm finding is an unintended side effect from allowing Aim to contribute to us so heavily - as you said "Last I checked Aim and Cunning provided the exact same bonus to ranged". When was the last time you checked? Because this was not the case in BETA. I am still attempting to find gear and make it in game at the moment.

 

As for what I'm IMPLYING through all this is that, if Aim indeed contributes to us so heavily like it factually did during BETA, then I've exposed that Aim is actually better for an Agent going Sniper and Marksman. Those prerequisites would have to be met - if my experiments discover my suspicions. I thought it was obvious but I was unclear. OBVIOUSLY if you when down the Engineering tree..........well, Cunning would be the way to go, haha - and most other trees. However, with Snipe and Ambush being Ranged type of abilities it's still up in the air.

 

Will report back!

Edited by Mackuss
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For the love of god why is this thread still going, if you think its a bug post it in the right forums your just going to confuse a new player with a title like this.

 

I just took my level 18 blaster and replace my cunning mods with level 1 aim ones and then level 1 cunning mods to double check and my white and tech damage went down like we been saying for day.

 

So all new IA/Smugglers keep stacking cunning

 

Level 1 aim mod

1183-1453 Tech damage bonus 103

 

level 1 cunning mod

1184-1454 Tech damage bonus 104

 

As we level that gap is going to get bigger

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This is a subject that's been baffling me and it's why I came to the forums. The IA codex says that Cunning is the IA's main stat, however, there's little to no explanation as to what exactly cunning is increasing in the codex. Up until I saw that little note, I was decking my IA out in mostly aim mods and armor, but once I read that, I couldn't figure out why aim wouldn't be the logical stat to increase. This is what I see as a big problem with the stats currently - there are too many stats that are similar and naturally seem like they'd co-exist. In that other mmo and most any rpg, you have clear cut stats - strength is always melee, dexterity/agility is always dps, willpower is always magic/mana/force. I don't know why there had to be a aim stat AND a cunning stat. It's quite confusing. They could have just had one stat and have it do different stat increases for different classes. Like I said, the way it is currently, it's just confusing.
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