Recently my guild has began attempting EC HM, but a few problems have arisen for me that make it difficult to heal. EC story is usually a one shot, but HM is completely different. The first problem is Toths aoe smash. My guildmates seem to think that as a healer I shouldn't be taking the damage from this smash, but I believe its an issue with their positioning. Where the tanks stand when on Toth I am standing 29m away from them, basically as far as I can go before my heals are out of range, But when I tab target to the boss I am usually only 20 or so meters from him. Is Toth really so big that he takes up 10m of space between the tank and me? Or am I positioning myself wrong. The other issue is when they do the ground spikes. I have this same problem on Foreman Crusher. When the red circles appear I try to move out as fast as I can, but sometimes, even though on my screen I am out of the circle I still take the damage. Has anyone else noticed this? Is it a lag thing between my client and the server, or a bug in the way their red circle attacks work? Any tips would be helpful.

Those circle are iffy esp since all the lag thats been happening. As far as where your standing while healing toth tank what my guild does(which normally has 2 melee dps on him along with the tank) is has the healer stand right with the melee esp since our core group doesnt use a sorc healer. He's a merc and one night thought well i might as well go stand over here and get the full effect of my aoe heal to work. Just this week we split out 8 man to start bringing our 2nd group thru HM EC and the healer(a sorc) was having a little bit of an issue standing at range so our OP healer suggested he try what our merc does and stand with melee. Next attempt boss was dead. Kinda sounds foolish to stand in it but it seems to work. and to be out of the aoe wouldnt u have to be 30+ meters resulting in being to far from your tank?

According to what I have read the smash aoe is only 25m. But I actually have thought about standing with the melee dps, since I'm taking damage from smash anyway, I can at least benefit from the Revivification that I drop on the melee group. It might be worth bringing it up next time we try ec.

It really comes down to your tank not being smart about positioning. Yell at him and tell him to be at an angle where he is closer to you, and for you dont have to heal through the mob. On a side note, you can always run out of range when healing isnt needed, since for the most part toth does very little damage besides his aoe and frenzy.

I don't know where you guys position Toth, but basically you attempt to keep the distance between you and the tank at max, WHILE keeping the tank closer to you than Toth. For me, this means I tell the melee DPS to stand on Toth's side (and not back) because if they are on his back they'll be too far to heal.

 

It's tight, and you have to re-adjust a lot because of the jumping and moving and then aoes that move the tank around. But if you can skip getting hit even 1/2 the time it will help a lot.

 

Hopefully this will help you:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6384/totharea.png

 

Keep in mind it's just a general layout, things are really quite tight and your heal range is only slightly larger than his aoe range.

Thanks for the image. But don't the tanks have to worry about knockbocks? Our tanks tank them against the wall on the right side from the starting area. Near where the dancing guy is. They both have their backs to the wall, and Zorn and Toth are between them and the rest of the group.

The tank just needs to deal with it tbh. I do every time and while it's annoying it is very crucial in Hm, in sm I tank back against wall because it's a non-issue

I heal Toth and Zorn (HM) by standing with the melee. The only time you really need to worry about getting away is during the berserk jump, other than that it isn't that difficult to heal. You avoid the first jump by not running in until after he has done it, and then you get hurt by every one after that.

 

I've healed it on both my sage and scoundrel, and someone above said they did it on a commando (merc) so it isn't class specific.

 

No idea how to help you on the circles.

Edited July 27, 2012 by zeshakha

Thanks for the image. But don't the tanks have to worry about knockbocks? Our tanks tank them against the wall on the right side from the starting area. Near where the dancing guy is. They both have their backs to the wall, and Zorn and Toth are between them and the rest of the group.

 

Yes, they still stand with so that if they get jumped at they will hit a wall.

The way i do it with a few different groups of people (as a tank and as a healer), is that zorn is tanked facing the 1st large tree left of the cave, while toth is tanked along the wall to the right of the cave. There should be a point that sorta sticks out that works great for a reference point, if done right toth and zorn should have their backs to each other, and they should be at a slight angle.

 

But on a side note, healing shouldnt be much of an issue in this fight, and if it is you will have problems later on in the instance where there are more heal intensive fights.

I heal Toth and Zorn (HM) by standing with the melee. The only time you really need to worry about getting away is during the berserk jump, other than that it isn't that difficult to heal. You avoid the first jump by not running in until after he has done it, and then you get hurt by every one after that.

 

I've healed it on both my sage and scoundrel, and someone above said they did it on a commando (merc) so it isn't class specific.

 

No idea how to help you on the circles.

 

Yes, I think standing with the melee might be the way to go here if we can't get better positioning. That way I can benefit from the rev I drop on the melee group. Do you find that you have to use whatever the equivalent of consumption is as a sage much during this fight? I find myself running very low on force when we get to about the 30% mark in the fight.

 

But on a side note, healing shouldnt be much of an issue in this fight, and if it is you will have problems later on in the instance where there are more heal intensive fights.

 

I have healed the tanks on HM before and felt that it was a lot easier as healer. Never been farther than that on HM though. I think part of the problem during the first fight is that our ranged DPS is getting damage during the jump phase because the transitions of our tanks are too slow. Every time they jump I find myself forced to spam Dark Infusions on pretty much everyone. The other sorc healer we bring agrees with me on this point.

Yes, I think standing with the melee might be the way to go here if we can't get better positioning. That way I can benefit from the rev I drop on the melee group. Do you find that you have to use whatever the equivalent of consumption is as a sage much during this fight? I find myself running very low on force when we get to about the 30% mark in the fight.

 

I use noble sacrifice constantly and it really isn't an issue if you know when the damage is going to come. Throw bubbles up on the melee when he's about to go berserk, run away from the melee when the red circle phase happens so that you rarely get circles and can heal most of that time, and most importantly make sure your other healer (and you if it gets on your side) cleanses the mental anguish from Zorn. That will save a lot of healing if it isn't already being done.

As far as getting out of circles, I found that running and jumping out seems preferable to just running out.

 

There was a period of time where Vokk's circles (HM Esseles) were tuned tighter and I was getting hit even when running away immediately -- but if I ran and jumped out I took no damage. As a habit from that, on any ground-circle based damage I run/jump out always. I don't know if it's really necessary but it seems to work for me.

Edited July 27, 2012 by JeffKretz

Where the tanks stand when on Toth I am standing 29m away from them, basically as far as I can go before my heals are out of range, But when I tab target to the boss I am usually only 20 or so meters from him. Is Toth really so big that he takes up 10m of space between the tank and me? Or am I positioning myself wrong.

To answer the question: yes, the models for these bosses are pretty huge, they are in fact ~5m radius (~10m diameter). The good news for DPS is that AOEs like Toth's stomp appear to be measured from the center of the boss, while the range to return fire is measured to the boss's edge. That doesn't help you as a healer though if the tank is on the far side :/

 

For Zorn and Toth, I recommend setting up perpendicular to the tank, rather than trying to be in front or behind the tank, just due to the fight's geometry.

For Sage/Sorc healers: it is possible for the tank to position such that he's closer to you than Toth, keeping you out of smashes; in my experience, this requires an awful lot of positioning and isn't really work it in practice. YMMV.

 

I will say this though: a sage/sorc should have no trouble healing all damage regardless of where they stand. Personally I prefer to stand at range so I can step back to avoid Toth's berserk smash, which melee DPS should get out of (or be prepared to pop significant CDs for).

Edited July 27, 2012 by Aurojiin