and yet expertise still doesnt work outside of warzones

 

yes it does

/10this

It also appears that we will need to regrind all our gear. This video was posted on the PoT5 forums and you can see there are a lot of significant stat increases.

the game isnt dead lol

 

this is gonna be a GW2 2.0, and we all know what happened with gw, atleast from pvp pov... Im with the poster couple of posts above, IMO like in every good pvp game, you got to do the dirty loundry at first, blood, tears and sweat to get your good gear. Not just handing them over, so new comers won't get rolled so hard.

 

EDIT: and since no one has exact values of how pve gear will work in pvp, im not gonna go into that, but if it's possible to be decent in pvp with pve gear it just ruins everything, bioware should recruit few guys from blizzard to get some lessons of how to create a good all around game.

Edited February 21, 2013 by DaweyJones

and yet expertise still doesnt work outside of warzones

 

LOL, sure it does. There's no possible way I'd crit a sage for 7k on my ambush if it didn't. Just happened again last night. armor debuff --> laze target --> snipe (autocrit) --> expl probe --> ambush (crit)--> follow through (crit) --> dead sage from full health in pve gear

Edited February 21, 2013 by islander

It also appears that we will need to regrind all our gear. This video was posted on the PoT5 forums and you can see there are a lot of significant stat increases.

 

Yep. I logged into PTS last night.

 

I predict a lot of alting going on in the semi-near future. Time to fill up on comms and then chill out.

Edited February 21, 2013 by islander

LOL, sure it does. There's no possible way I'd crit a sage for 7k on my ambush if it didn't. Just happened again last night. armor debuff --> laze target --> snipe (autocrit) --> expl probe --> ambush (crit)--> follow through (crit) --> dead sage from full health in pve gear

 

yes it does

/10this

 

These three screenshots might shock you then, as they are of a customer service ticket that clearly states it doesnt.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152145395055400&set=o.130384950383843&type=1&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152145395010400&set=o.130384950383843&type=1&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152145395040400&set=o.130384950383843&type=1&theater

You've got the crux of the idea, but I think when you are able to see all the items it will be more clear. Fundamentally, PvP gear will have lower stats then PvE gear (expertise excluded), including endurance. So high end PvE gear characters will have bigger health pools, but take more damage. The result of this interaction should get us to point of balance between the gear sets we are shooting for.

turning the system by a 180° what are you doing to make pvpler as "viable" in pve as pveler in pvp? will there be any boosting system in pve as well or are primarily pvping people just left behind when they want to pve for what ever reason?

I've read a lot of posts from people on both sides, and I disagree largely with all of you.

 

I should've have to sit through 50 WZ matches in 1 week where I'm killed in seconds. It makes it unenjoyable, and I just won't do it. Simple. I don't expect to be given crazy gear -- and I honestly don't really care about the pvp gear. I'd like to queue up a few times a week, have a semi-enjoyable time, and be done. I don't need to win, or even be amazing, in order to have fun. But dead in 2 seconds every time I enter combat? Rediculous.

 

Isn't the point of ranked warzones to play against hardcore pvpers? Maybe it should be more similar to OPS -- in endgame PVP, we have Story Mode, Hard Mode, and Nightmare mode (with a 4th coming, apparently?). A "fresh" 50 with a lot of class knowledge and skill could walk into a SM with other good players and not get facerolled. Then it's gear-grinding time in order to progress into HM and NiM, or new tiers.

 

Shouldn't WZ's be the same? A fresh 50 should be able to walk into "Tier 1" pvp, and have some type of chance if they're skilled, but not be able to do a "Tier 2".

 

I will gladly work through and pay my blood and sweat for crazy epic PVP gear, just as I do in PVE....but there has to be some curve.

 

 

Interestingly enough, I wonder if 99% of the problem is related to TTD, as one person already said. If everyone has a low TTD, that seems like much more of a problem than any "gear" gap.

 

And as a final note -- if the highest PVP gear is viable in PVE, shouldn't the highest PVE gear be viable in PVP? Why on earth do people thing PVPers deserve to walk into PVE and instantly have decent gear, but PVEers shouldn't be able to?

 

TL;DR - Fresh 50's should be able to play without dying every 2 seconds. Doesn't mean you have to hand em gear, or devalue the elite pvp gear.

I suggest making PvP gear unequippable in ops. PvE gear unequippable in warzones. problem solved, everyone stops crying from jealousy issues. I agree, make warzones separate tiers. that would be awesome. Once past a certain amount of expertise, new tier.

The bigger change is in how we bolster and add stats to players to even out the playing field. Instead of focusing on player level, now the bolster system will take a look at each individual item on your character and use that as the baseline assumption of power for that item slot. We then bolster each slot up to what we feel is the "entry level" of PvP power, at which we think everyone can be happy playing without getting simply out geared to death. Effectively, we bolster players to something like what our recruit gear set tries to do now in 1.7, but with much better accuracy and effect. Additionally, the bolster system will now grant players expertise when it feels it is necessary, bringing our entry-level power gap even closer to the end-game PvP power.

 

Wow. You weren't kidding. A lot of changes incoming to Expertise. Everything sounds like you guys are moving in the right direction, making fights more about skill than gear. I applaud you for that effort.

 

I have a question about the new Bolster-based normalization that will occur in 2.0. Based on what you are describing above, it sounds like the new Bolster will now come with itemized norms for stats. If everything is going to be boosted based on these built-in norms, what is the incentive to min/max, if at all?

 

I mean, if my toon is going to be bolstered stat-wise to where you think he should be anyway, why should I bother with any min/maxing. Sounds to me like all I really need to do is get my class's PvP set and just be done. This could turn out to be a good thing, btw. lol

turning the system by a 180° what are you doing to make pvpler as "viable" in pve as pveler in pvp? will there be any boosting system in pve as well or are primarily pvping people just left behind when they want to pve for what ever reason?

 

that's what story modes are for. I know. it's bogus. but that's precisely what story mode ops are for. I'm as 100% positive that that is the official BW line as one can be w/o knowing. it makes perfect sense. there is very little in the way of tiered pvp. pve has sm, hm, nm. in order for a pve person to experience pvp at all, there are only two choices: regs and rated. if pve gear is the equivalent of recruit, then they'd get slaughtered in a rated match on gear alone. thus, they're given a boost in order to make reg wz's playable.

 

I'm not necessarily endorsing this system, but I think it's a pretty clear rationale.

turning the system by a 180° what are you doing to make pvpler as "viable" in pve as pveler in pvp? will there be any boosting system in pve as well or are primarily pvping people just left behind when they want to pve for what ever reason?

 

Are you kidding me? High-end (EWH) PvP gear is already on par with all but the highest tier (DG) PvE gear. I forget to take my PvP gear off in HMs and don't even notice. This is about making it more equal both ways:

 

 

• PvP gear will be (and is currently) solid enough to play in appropriately tiered PvE content, but PvE gear will always be superior
  
• PvE gear will be (is NOT now) solid enough to play in appropriately tiered PvP content, but PvP gear will always be superior
  

 

Are you upset that they are making PvP as accessible with PvE gear as PvE is with PvP gear? If so....why are you upset?

If the goal is to piss off what's left of your hardcore pvp community by rendering all their carefully min/maxxed gear meaningless, then you will surely succeed.

 

this is actually one of the most important underlying issues that was ruining my SWTOR PvP and end-game PvE experience. other than the obvious gross imbalance of the classes, server connectivity, and bugs.

 

this game is like a chocolate bunny. delicious shell, hollow in the middle. great game, dumbed down.

 

there's little challenge to acquiring gear, creating a spec (all cookie cutter), or balancing your stats (min/max).

 

been here since launch, it's getting "easier" and "easier". from bags to free PvP gear giveaways!! (oh and free valor giveaway...i'm still bitter )

 

now u can PvP in PvE gear...and do well?!! idk...can i buy raid gear thru PvP? or gain a buff to run OPs in PvP gear? or, can i just get a free set of PvP AND PvE gear with purchase of RotH? oooo, better yet, can i just buy them thru CC? church and state are serarate...as PvE and PvP should be!!

 

idk, guess i just expect more.

Edited February 21, 2013 by T-Assassin

So will pre-level 50's have access to mods with Expertise on them now, or will we get expertise based on the quality of the mods in our equipment? If it is the later, then I better get cracking on my 41 twink (I've been kind of lazy on my purple mods).

That's basically correct. There is a certain item rating level that once an individual item slot goes over that rating, it starts only getting expertise for its bolster (no more "PvE" stats). As the item rating continues to rise, you get less and less expertise until eventually bolster doesn't get anything from that item. The result should be that in the best PvE gear, you are somewhere between the "introduction bolster" level and the top end PvP gear in power. You would still be better off swapping to PvP gear if you have it, but you aren't terrible.

So, you said old PvP gear won't be quite on par. Where in this spectrum would a full set of Recruit Mk-2 fall in? Will it be the worst possible choice, or will it fall in somewhere else on the spectrum between crappy PvE leveling greens and the new "entry level" PvP sets?

 

Also, does the calculation you're talking about depend on "rating" only (the nominal stat determined by the barrel, hilt, armoring, etc.), or do you mean it looks at every mod in every slot of every shell you're wearing? So, for instance, how do augments factor into this calculation (or do they)?

 

And will the "bolster" calculations be reflected in the stats we see in the character sheet while standing on fleet? Or will we only be able to see our "live" stats while we're standing in a warzone?

Edited February 21, 2013 by Heezdedjim

you would think someone with a doctorate in humanities wouldn't stumble on this. nevertheless, I don't understand what it is you're saying here. What I think it says for lowbie:

 

• we're going to assess the value of your current gear
  
• then we're going to set the value of that slot in the wz to be equal to recruit
  

 

it should be pretty obvious why I'm confused. that makes no sense. who cares what the value of a slotted item is if everything is going to be "bolstered" to exactly the same "recruit" level?

...

 

so my real question...can someone please paraphrase that in language dr. foxmob can understand?

 

Here is my intepretation: twinking out your lowbie will be helpful for PvE but will get you absolutely NOTHING in PvP. Nighty night Peter Pan.

I have a question about the new Bolster-based normalization that will occur in 2.0. Based on what you are describing above, it sounds like the new Bolster will now come with itemized norms for stats. If everything is going to be boosted based on these built-in norms, what is the incentive to min/max, if at all?

 

I mean, if my toon is going to be bolstered stat-wise to where you think he should be anyway, why should I bother with any min/maxing. Sounds to me like all I really need to do is get my class's PvP set and just be done. This could turn out to be a good thing, btw. lol

 

I think it says: min/maxing for lowbie == fail. min/maxing for endgame PvP (level 55?) == win.

As someone who stated PVP recently ish i came in with all DG/BH Augmented gear 0 expertise and did ok ish. As a healer little be easier, but I have noticed that as I have swapped out to mostly WH/EWH pieces my numbers are improving. Part is skill and getting better, part is the buffs. IN some warzones I am effectively hitting 500k in heals in a tough match like alderaan /hypergates ect or 200k plus in stuff like hutball. In full DG my numbers were half and i died 12 times as much. I am down to most matches (outside of huttball) where deaths are under 2 despite the smaller health pool.

 

Soooo I was pretty nervous about jumping into PVP worried about getting rolled and I did to a point by DG/BH it was enough that i was addicted to this style of play and now in the last 2 months. I have run 1 flash point and maybe done BH a couple of times. (and becoming broke in the process.) Had I come in as a fresh 50 with PVE gear or Rakata I may not have had such a good experience and left this aspect of the game alone. So buy allowing people in PVE gear be "competitve" they may stick around more and fell incentive to grind out PVP gear.

 

In the scheme of things all that matters is how often that queue pops, more players even in ok gear is good in my book.

I don't care about catering to "casual" PvP'ers...this whole thing is an annoyance. I worked my but off, got face stomped...for what now? I don't care if someone says, oohh i want to try PvP now and get rolled and they quit. Yay no more person with that fail attitude!!!! That is probably the exact person that goes to the node halfway in the match to farm defensive medals. That attitude sucks in warzones, so lets weed this out and make people work for thier gear. No one remembers the old style MMO's where you NEEDED to grind for WEEKS and get rolled over and pummeled just to get some gear. People felt more like a community, and they felt like they ACCOMPLISHED something. Why can't we go back to that model instead of changing it for crybabies?

I don't care about catering to "casual" PvP'ers...this whole thing is an annoyance. I worked my but off, got face stomped...for what now? I don't care if someone says, oohh i want to try PvP now and get rolled and they quit. Yay no more person with that fail attitude!!!! That is probably the exact person that goes to the node halfway in the match to farm defensive medals. That attitude sucks in warzones, so lets weed this out and make people work for thier gear. No one remembers the old style MMO's where you NEEDED to grind for WEEKS and get rolled over and pummeled just to get some gear. People felt more like a community, and they felt like they ACCOMPLISHED something. Why can't we go back to that model instead of changing it for crybabies?

 

because gear doesn't equate skill. Let them have free gear, kill them anyways.

 

You learn more from failure than victory. You took your beatings and you have come out on top. Now it's your turn to dole out the beatings. Continue to do so til morale improves.

Edited February 22, 2013 by AngelofCain

Yeah I know Hallow It's just..people with that attitude end up on my team if I'm pugging for the night and I really wish they wouldn't give gear away to people and encourage this type of behavior. You have to admit, just because your "good" at PvP, you can't be a one woman/man army and win the match.

Yeah I know Hallow It's just..people with that attitude end up on my team if I'm pugging for the night and I really wish they wouldn't give gear away to people and encourage this type of behavior. You have to admit, just because your "good" at PvP, you can't be a one woman/man army and win the match.

 

true, but in that case, that's usually when I play Hallowball. Make up some random objective and work on that. One game I did nothing but learn to kill people with stuns and fire pits. Another I did nothing but sit on a healer and interrupt their heals without killing them, while working on evading their defenders. It's all just a matter of how you want to play.

 

First rule of Hallowball is never pvp sober.

lol I like that, next time im pugging, im going to play "ChristynaBall" Thanks for giving me something to do in loosing warznes besides trying to win something unwinnable. I do care that people get to take the easy road in PvP, but oh well...im not going to be bothered with it anymore, just focus them

lol I like that, next time im pugging, im going to play "ChristynaBall" Thanks for giving me something to do in loosing warznes besides trying to win something unwinnable. I do care that people get to take the easy road in PvP, but oh well...im not going to be bothered with it anymore, just focus them

 

 

excellent!!! Just focus something you are weak on if you want and improve that game play. Stuns, not using stuns.

 

Some games I won't even use my cc break so I can observe the how much dmg I can take before I need to run away.

 

My favorite Hallowball Objective is Murder in the midst.

 

Find a target in the middle of everyone and just see if you can murder them before you die.

 

The key to winning this game is killing said person and then escaping.

 

This will help you learn when you pop Cloaking screen and what to use to obtain said objective.

 

Sometimes it's not about the win. Sometimes its about sending a message!!!! that you are good enough to do this even if they are beating your team.

 

trust me people will remember you.

 

Also... spend games not stealthing. learn to FIGHT UNSTEALTHED!!!! lol. that was a Hectic coupla days when I did that.

Hehehe... silly operatives... dont go making people unsub now!