At first, I admit that I didn’t want to get involved but given how out of control this is getting, I’m stepping in.

Lately all I’ve been seeing is “People who dislike the TLJ go %^&* yourselves” or “Look how bad Legends or Canon is” and my favorite, “You are the minority/we are the majority so stuff it.” To the people that continually start these discussions as a means of taking jabs at one side of the fanbase or another, you should be ashamed of yourselves. This is the kind of toxicity that has caused the press and other sci-fi fanbases to literally laugh at us. I can’t say I blame them, most of the arguments currently raging haven’t a shred of validity to them other than, “I don’t agree with you, so you are wrong.” Just because someone doesn’t agree with you does not mean that you have any right to ruin their Star Wars experience, regardless of where on the fan spectrum you fall on.

Both sides are guilty of this, but the real problem isn’t your average Canon or Legends fan. Can you guess it? Ding Ding you’re right, it’s these radical fans that can’t stand someone not agreeing with them and it’s out of control. It’s come to the point where fans on both sides are quite literally masquerading as there supposed, “opponents” in an effort to smear them in the public eye. All this is doing is preventing more people from becoming more deeply invested in our community and is causing long time fans to become so disillusioned that they withdraw entirely.

It also bothers me that certain parts of the fanbase have this concept that they are the master race of fans and have the gall to think that their word is the word of law. Reality check, you weren’t ordained or imbued with almighty power by the powers that be so get over it. For every one person that agrees with you, their will be three that don’t. That’s life.

There is no right or wrong answer, neither fanbase is good or evil, everyone has a right to enjoy Star Wars however they see fit. If they didn’t like the TLJ, so what? They have a right to not like it. If they liked TLJ, great! I’m glad they enjoyed it. But deliberately going out of your way to ruin someone else’s experience? Come on, weren’t we all taught in kindergarten that bullying is wrong? Clearly some people didn’t learn this lesson too well and need to be taught again.

If none of this seems toxic or wrong to any of you then we might as well just kiss the world goodbye because it isn’t getting any better because of this. I just hope more people will step up to the plate and swat down this toxicity wherever it arises otherwise we as a collected fanbase are screwed.

I only have issues with people who think their vision of Star Wars constitutes the official Canon and that anything that strays from it is a betrayal.

I'm fine with people disliking TLJ, I personally had to see it twice to decide that while there was bad (And not a small amount of it), it was far outweighed by the good in my opinion.

I'm even okay with people nitpicking at the movie when their argument make sense (I'm less so when they demand every single detail to be explained, as if the film was supposed to be extended for one hour just to vocally address their complaints.)

(I'm less so when they demand every single detail to be explained, as if the film was supposed to be extended for one hour just to vocally address their complaints.)

Which is hilarious, when you consider that the length and dragging-ness of the movie is one of the major global complaints.

But I totally agree with this thread. If you don't like TLJ, you have your reasons, and I respect them (except for coming in with so many expectations that you were bound to be disappointed). But don't attack others who enjoyed it because their opinion differs from yours. That doesn't do anything constructive, nor does it promote honest discussion, which is half the fun of Star Wars.

I only have issues with people who think their vision of Star Wars constitutes the official Canon and that anything that strays from it is a betrayal.

I'm fine with people disliking TLJ, I personally had to see it twice to decide that while there was bad (And not a small amount of it), it was far outweighed by the good in my opinion.

I'm even okay with people nitpicking at the movie when their argument make sense (I'm less so when they demand every single detail to be explained, as if the film was supposed to be extended for one hour just to vocally address their complaints.)

agree with a lot of what you said here.

For me it's the hyperbole that get's me. the whole "THIIS IS THE WORST MOVIE EVER MADE!!!" and of course claiming it breaks all the canon rules by doing stuff that has been well established in other movies

Then of course you have the crazy Alt Right guys who claim Rey is a Mary sue with out even knowing what that means.

But the larger problem is this happens all over nerd culture all the time. It's the whole "I don't like this therefore i must destroy it" which is so damaging to Nerd Culture.

We have seen it with SWTOR. Remember when SWTOR came out and for some bizzare reason some people thought that Bioware a company famous for story drvien theme park single player games would make Star Wars Galaxies 2.0.

then when it turned out to be a Bioware game with multiplayer what did they do? They raged and tried destroy SWTOR any way they could with the whole TORtanic memes and so on. Hell there are still people who do that over on Dufly's site 5 years later. How insane is that?

Or gamers who send death threats to reviews because that reviewer gave 75% to a game they think deserves a 100.

It's sadly just the culture we are a part of. But the question is how do we stop it? You can't just ignore those people as they will only keep doing it.

This isn't a Star Wars issue, it's how everyone chooses to discuss anything these days. Nobody is trying to reach consensus and agreement anymore.

The world has, sadly, never worked that way, and it will, sadly, only get worse from here.

Which is hilarious, when you consider that the length and dragging-ness of the movie is one of the major global complaints.

Honestly if someone wants more details on the movies they should really buy the novelizations and source books, that's what they're there for I think.

I just want Lucas back (and a KOTOR movie). I kinda think the rehashing for 7 & 8 comes from the Lucas hate. We only have ourselves to blame

Lucas was never going to make another Star Wars movie.

not to mention it was Lucas who didn't even understand Star Wars. Remember what he did with the Special Editions? Greedo Shooting First? adding a Disney Musical number to Return of the Jedi? Then he refused to release the original editions claiming they had been destroyed.

edit: Gonna add a bit more to this, Lucas actually resented Star Wars. Yes it made his fortune but it also killed his career as a diverse film maker. It can be hard for any of us to understand as we would give anything to be in charge of Star Wars.

Lucas however wanted to make movies and a wide range of movies. But after the success of Star Wars he really couldn't. Every time he tried people would say "When's the new star wars" and the movies would end up flopping.

So he was stuck making Star Wars and not any of the other movies he really wanted. It's why you see him not care about the EU at all or the canon of Star Wars.

I have thought, from as far back as the release of Ep 1, that a lot of the hate that the new movies get has to do with how people think Star Wars should be and anything that deviates from their vision is utterly without merit. That is not to say that Ep's 1-3, 7, & 8 are perfect, or not deserving of any criticism, far from it, but the absolute, visceral hate they receive has a lot to do with them not fulfilling someone's headcanon.

Exactly. Only Rouge 1 seemed to avoid the hate and I chalk that up to nobody had concrete expectations for that one. The most rageful posts I've seen about that one was that Darth Vader wasn't in it enough, when he was never supposed to be a key character in it. So to me, it's all about not letting your preconceived notions get in the way.

Exactly. Only Rouge 1 seemed to avoid the hate and I chalk that up to nobody had concrete expectations for that one. The most rageful posts I've seen about that one was that Darth Vader wasn't in it enough, when he was never supposed to be a key character in it. So to me, it's all about not letting your preconceived notions get in the way.

funny you mention the most hate I saw was someone angry the Death Star was upside down... no really and they were 100% serious.

edit and also the whole SJWs are ruinging star wars arrrggghh females can't be the leads in Star Wars stuff but there was a lot fewer of those for Rogue one.

I have thought, from as far back as the release of Ep 1, that a lot of the hate that the new movies get has to do with how people think Star Wars should be and anything that deviates from their vision is utterly without merit. That is not to say that Ep's 1-3, 7, & 8 are perfect, or not deserving of any criticism, far from it, but the absolute, visceral hate they receive has a lot to do with them not fulfilling someone's headcanon.

You're right, mostly, I think. Might as well just show Ep IV-VI again for some of these so-called fans. That way they'd be happy that nothing has changed with any of the original characters.

I'll disagree with you about reaction to TPM, though. It just wasn't a great movie. I remember going to see it and leaving the theater feeling weird... like, what just happened? And not wanting to admit that I didn't like it. So I had to watch again to be sure. It did not get better. I definitely had no preconceived notions that time.

This always happens when thing a, which was beloved to some people, changes something and becomes thing a 2.0. Wanna start a fight? Go to youtube, find a video of a Nightwish song, and comment that someone else but Floor Jansen was the superior vocalist. Or, even better, go to a video of a song from the solo act of the original singer, Tarja Turunen, and claim that Floor Jansen is better than her. EU vs. Canon fights are nothing compared to that.

It's sad, and people being polite can go a long way towards a more meaningful discussion, but I don't think we can never completely root it out. Star Wars is divided now, and it naturally divides the fanbase too.

This always happens when thing a, which was beloved to some people, changes something and becomes thing a 2.0. Wanna start a fight? Go to youtube, find a video of a Nightwish song, and comment that someone else but Floor Jansen was the superior vocalist. Or, even better, go to a video of a song from the solo act of the original singer, Tarja Turunen, and claim that Floor Jansen is better than her. EU vs. Canon fights are nothing compared to that.

 

It's sad, and people being polite can go a long way towards a more meaningful discussion, but I don't think we can never completely root it out. Star Wars is divided now, and it naturally divides the fanbase too.

You are right in that we can never STOP it from happening but in my eyes, there are ways of curbing the more toxic tendencies. It's fine to have a difference of opinion but as brought up, "what you consider to be right doesn't constitute everyone accepting it as wholeheartedly as you do."

I personally think both sides of the fan-base need to try and calm/police their own. Often times I've seen Canon try to "talk sense" into Legends and vice versa but every time that happens, the other side construes it as either arrogance or another jab rather than a placating gesture.

Yesterday I was thinking about solutions that could somehow cater to both sides of the fan-base and I came up with this:

Create a video game based on the premise of having a crossover between the Legends and Canon continuity BUT....you make it widely known that the game is obviously Non-Canon. By doing this you can bring in characters like Jacen Solo, Mara Jade and others alongside Kylo Ren, Rey and so on. It may not be what Legends fans want but it will at least acknowledge and dare I say lend credence to some of the accomplishments of Legends.

It definitely wouldn't solve the problem but it could be a solution towards bridging the gap.

Just a suggestion.....

You are right in that we can never STOP it from happening but in my eyes, there are ways of curbing the more toxic tendencies. It's fine to have a difference of opinion but as brought up, "what you consider to be right doesn't constitute everyone accepting it as wholeheartedly as you do."

 

I personally think both sides of the fan-base need to try and calm/police their own. Often times I've seen Canon try to "talk sense" into Legends and vice versa but every time that happens, the other side construes it as either arrogance or another jab rather than a placating gesture.

 

Yesterday I was thinking about solutions that could somehow cater to both sides of the fan-base and I came up with this:

 

Create a video game based on the premise of having a crossover between the Legends and Canon continuity BUT....you make it widely known that the game is obviously Non-Canon. By doing this you can bring in characters like Jacen Solo, Mara Jade and others alongside Kylo Ren, Rey and so on. It may not be what Legends fans want but it will at least acknowledge and dare I say lend credence to some of the accomplishments of Legends.

 

It definitely wouldn't solve the problem but it could be a solution towards bridging the gap.

 

Just a suggestion.....

Sort of like the lego or Disney Infinity games? That isn't a bad idea. I do hope they let their future games be modifiable so people can make mods about their favorite characters and such, EAW has a lot of legends content mods out there. Another idea for me would be a cross-over comic as I think that format is better fit for crossover, maybe a novel or short story akin to Star Wars:Tales.

This video sums up what the fanbase is like at the moment.

I'm reminded of a wonderful, affirming little speech that Wil Wheaton gave a few years ago at a convention about why it's great to be a nerd / geek -- basically summing up that being a nerd means being passionate and energetic about our love for our interests and hobbies. That is a genuinely great take on fandoms, but it really seems that at times we run the risk of being so swept up in that passion that civility and basic decency get lost in the mix.

I'm not a psychologist or anything, but I think it is important to be able to temper that passion with two key things:

1) Being able to say "this isn't my cup of tea, but others like it, so it's okay that this is for them and not for me." When we can't do this we run headfirst into being the person who will say "your fun is wrong!" to another human being, or who thinks that if someone likes something we dislike, then they must just be trolling, or be a paid shill, etc. The reverse is also true -- just because someone doesn't like something that you liked / loved, that doesn't mean they're a troll or shill, they may just have different tastes, and, again, that is okay. (There are, of course, genuine trolls, paid shills, etc. out there -- I'm talking about jumping to that conclusion as a knee-jerk reaction to disagreement, rather than noticing legitimate red flags.)

2) Being able to take a step back, take a breath, take a walk outside, and have a bit of perspective -- our hobbies, interests, favorite entertainment, etc. can and should be important to us, but we shouldn't ever lose a healthy sense of proportionality about them. Without this, we get the sort of toxic nerd!rage that will put other people off from joining the fandom, or at its most extreme even leads to some "fans" writing death threats to authors and actors.

(Bringing up such threats is obviously an extreme example, I only do so to provide an illustrative, clear-cut case of someone having lost all perspective -- because it's not a binary switch where a person is either perfectly rational or they're frothing-at-the-mouth crazy, a lot of the vitriol we see in the fandom comes from people sliding down that scale even if they haven't gone all the way to 'restraining order' territory.)

At first, I admit that I didn’t want to get involved but given how out of control this is getting, I’m stepping in.

Lately all I’ve been seeing is “People who dislike the TLJ go %^&* yourselves” or “Look how bad Legends or Canon is” and my favorite, “You are the minority/we are the majority so stuff it.” To the people that continually start these discussions as a means of taking jabs at one side of the fanbase or another, you should be ashamed of yourselves. This is the kind of toxicity that has caused the press and other sci-fi fanbases to literally laugh at us. I can’t say I blame them, most of the arguments currently raging haven’t a shred of validity to them other than, “I don’t agree with you, so you are wrong.” Just because someone doesn’t agree with you does not mean that you have any right to ruin their Star Wars experience, regardless of where on the fan spectrum you fall on.

 

Both sides are guilty of this, but the real problem isn’t your average Canon or Legends fan. Can you guess it? Ding Ding you’re right, it’s these radical fans that can’t stand someone not agreeing with them and it’s out of control. It’s come to the point where fans on both sides are quite literally masquerading as there supposed, “opponents” in an effort to smear them in the public eye. All this is doing is preventing more people from becoming more deeply invested in our community and is causing long time fans to become so disillusioned that they withdraw entirely.

It also bothers me that certain parts of the fanbase have this concept that they are the master race of fans and have the gall to think that their word is the word of law. Reality check, you weren’t ordained or imbued with almighty power by the powers that be so get over it. For every one person that agrees with you, their will be three that don’t. That’s life.

 

There is no right or wrong answer, neither fanbase is good or evil, everyone has a right to enjoy Star Wars however they see fit. If they didn’t like the TLJ, so what? They have a right to not like it. If they liked TLJ, great! I’m glad they enjoyed it. But deliberately going out of your way to ruin someone else’s experience? Come on, weren’t we all taught in kindergarten that bullying is wrong? Clearly some people didn’t learn this lesson too well and need to be taught again.

 

If none of this seems toxic or wrong to any of you then we might as well just kiss the world goodbye because it isn’t getting any better because of this. I just hope more people will step up to the plate and swat down this toxicity wherever it arises otherwise we as a collected fanbase are screwed.

You know what the problem is? It is personal attacks on someone who expressed a like/dislike for the films plot/ direction. I can say first hand how in my thread I was attacked nearly off the bat by people using ad homonyms because of my voicing a personal dislike for the film and why.

It is disgusting.

You know what the problem is? It is personal attacks on someone who expressed a like/dislike for the films plot/ direction. I can say first hand how in my thread I was attacked nearly off the bat by people using ad homonyms because of my voicing a personal dislike for the film and why.

 

It is disgusting.

Maybe you should reconsider the way you present your arguments.

To be fair, you do seem to be doing a better job of that now than you did when you started that thread. Bravo.

Maybe you should reconsider the way you present your arguments.

 

To be fair, you do seem to be doing a better job of that now than you did when you started that thread. Bravo.

Was this focused at you? Or did it just resonate that you were one of the people doing it?

Was this focused at you? Or did it just resonate that you were one of the people doing it?

Just making an observation.

So far I've noticed the few people who liked tlj are the ones attacking people.

Really kids grow up if you want to rage at someone rage at Disney and the makers for giving us a bad movie. Not those of us who are just calling it like we see it.

So far I've noticed the few people who liked tlj are the ones attacking people.

 

Really kids grow up if you want to rage at someone rage at Disney and the makers for giving us a bad movie. Not those of us who are just calling it like we see it.

And I’ve seen both sides attacking to the point where they’ll say one side aren’t true Star Wars fans solely because they did/didn’t like it.

More than a few liked it, it’s just small groups on both sides that are attacking the other side. I know people that liked it, and people that didn’t. That’s perfectly fine. But just because we like it doesn’t mean we are kids or are not true fans or whatever, and those who didn’t like aren’t all salty or hardcore lLegends fanatics that despise Disney throwing out the old EU.