That's pretty inaccurate, since during the first two years before the expansion was released WoW also put out:

5 Raids:

Blackwing Lair (1.6)

Zul'Gurub (1.7)

Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj (1.9)

Temple of Ahn'Qiraj (1.9)

Naxxramas (1.11)

 

4 Dungeons:

Maraudon (1.2)

Dire Maul East (1.3)

Dire Maul West (1.3)

Dire Maul North (1.3)

 

3 One-Time Events:

Gates of Ahn'Qiraj (1.9)

Scourge Invasion (1.11)

Opening the Dark Portal (2.0)

3 Annual Events:

Feast of the Winter Veil (1.2)

Children's Week (1.4)

Hallows End (1.8)

3 Reoccuring Events:

Elemental Invasions (1.4)

Darkmoon Faire (1.6)

Stranglethron Fishing Extravaganza (1.7)

 

6 World Bosses:

Azurgos (1.3)

Lord Kazzak (1.3)

Lethon (1.8)

Emeriss (1.8)

Ysondre (1.8)

Taerar (1.8)

3 Battlegrounds:

Warsong Gulch (1.5)

Alterac Valley (1.5)

Arathi Basin (1.7)

 

4 Quest Hubs:

Thorium Point (1.5)

Revantusk Village (1.5)

Silithus (complete zone revamp) (1.8)

Light's Hope Chapel (1.11)

Various Quality of Life/Other:

Significant UI improvements (1.3)

Weather (1.10)

Cross-Realm Battlegrounds (1.12)

Sure, but the OP also cherrypicked his stuff and left out alot of other stuff that has been added, so I thought I'd cherrypick too... Or is cherrypicking only allowed when complaining?

Sure, but the OP also cherrypicked his stuff and left out alot of other stuff that has been added, so I thought I'd cherrypick too... Or is cherrypicking only allowed when complaining?

Naw just the opposite - I pointed out how unfair OP's anemic list was, which is why it didn't seem fair to let yours slide either

it is shocking how many people list exactly these reasons, star wars and lightsabers.

So if EA's Battlefront and open world SW multiplayer game come out, guess what will happen to TORs population..

The fact is, if this game wasn't Star Wars, it would be absolutely deserted right now.

The only thing that makes most people stay in it is because it has lightsabers and is placed in one of the most epic universes ever created.

And that's it.

It's very far from being finished. I re subbed after 1,5 years and I have to say that there's barely anything added or changed. And even less things are fixed, I still see some ridiculous bugs that I saw at launch, and I cannot possibly take the developers seriously - it is obvious to me that they gave up and they are just trying to keep the game breathing, but not really trying to make it great.

The fact is, if this game wasn't Star Wars, it would be absolutely deserted right now.

The only thing that makes most people stay in it is because it has lightsabers and is placed in one of the most epic universes ever created.

And that's it.

I, for example, play this game because it is a good sci-fi (or space opera, science fantasy, whatever we are going to call the genre) MMORPG, of which we have not seen much in last years, or they were much more money-grubbing (STO) or really niche (EVE). I also play because my guild is truly awesome, without them, I would probably be playing much less.

As to the "its star wars", it is a known fact that many consumers choose stuff based on a brand. So yes, the Star Wars name brings people who would not think about playing another generic fantasy mmo, but who might be willing to try a "star wars" game.

Also, lightsabers are pretty awesome

it is shocking how many people list exactly these reasons, star wars and lightsabers.

So if EA's Battlefront and open world SW multiplayer game come out, guess what will happen to TORs population..

there wouldnt be any.

The fact is, if this game wasn't Star Wars, it would be absolutely deserted right now.

The only thing that makes most people stay in it is because it has lightsabers and is placed in one of the most epic universes ever created.

And that's it.

 

 

It's very far from being finished. I re subbed after 1,5 years and I have to say that there's barely anything added or changed. And even less things are fixed, I still see some ridiculous bugs that I saw at launch, and I cannot possibly take the developers seriously - it is obvious to me that they gave up and they are just trying to keep the game breathing, but not really trying to make it great.

That is an impossibility to say for certain.

Who knows if this game wouldn't have been awesome if bioware had made it set in the mass effect universe instead (just as an example)?

The story is great, and I would have liked it even if it wasn't set in Star Wars.

Sure, the star wars name has a certain pull, but the game wouldn't be "dead" for certain in the hypothetical situation where it wasn't set in Star Wars. There is just no way to know that for certain.

The fact is, if this game wasn't Star Wars, it would be absolutely deserted right now.

The only thing that makes most people stay in it is because it has lightsabers and is placed in one of the most epic universes ever created.

And that's it.

well then we can speculate what the plan is for TOR when Star Wars BFIII is out, cause I bet that one has lightsabers and "Star Wars" written all over it (also the more popular time period).

Yeah, SWTOR without starwars would be deserted.

And WoW without Warcraft would have never gotten more than 500k subscribers.

What is the point of such arguments? No matter what SWTOR changes, it will NEVER be not Starwars.

One could as well say "Online games without internet would be deserted".

Beginning to think this game will never come out with a real legitimate expansion.

I agree... SWTOR could overnight double their content and implement 4 new races with 8 new classes, all fully voiced and 20 new levels, 8 new planets, 50 new FPs, 10 new OPs, 20 new battlegrounds and a full hundred new ships for GSF... and people would still find a reason, why it would not be a "real legitimate" expansion... How do you define that by the way?

Well... since the OP likes to make comparisons between this game and WoW, let's go all the way shall we?

 

WoW had its first expansion released 2+ years after its release.

It included:

2 New Races.

Max level increased with 10 lvls.

1 New "Planet".

8 Dungeons

1 New battleground for PvP

3 arenas.

 

So basically that's what you got for 2+ years of development.

 

If you ask me, SW:TOR is doing just fine with its content.

Yeah if you compare to a game released nearly 10 years ago and when MMOS were way less popular and developed as today . I don't really see this as "doing just fine" .

Swtor failed badly during it's launch for the exact reasons you stated on an earlier post, they tried to copy wow. IF they had released a finished product, with decent engine , pvp and end game it wouldn't have failed. But as you said they wanted a theme park mmo, which is also not very a popular style and at the same time tried to copy a game that wasn't one.

If you gonna release a copy of something you have to make it better or at the very list on par with the game you copied. Releasing an inferior product just to meet a deadline is what killed the original swtor. What we have now are merely the lifeboats of the TORtanic.

I unsubbed when they released 2.0 as the direction of the game was going didn't please me. I gave a shot after i saw they released oricon with DF and DP. I have to say the game has improved since 2.0 and quite a bit since launch. But by no means the pace they are improving things and releasing content is enough to compete with high end MMO these days.

There is still nearly NO QOL in this game. Getting around has improved a small amount in this game but that was it. There is still no way differentiate your debuffs and dots from others (even from your companion). 0 was done to improve the quality of guild facilities, no in game calender, no guild only area. No multiple specs or gear slots allowing us to easily switch specs and roles when out of combat, we still only have field respec.

Furthemore there is still no way to easily check transfer items, lockouts, quests ,inventory , credits and bank tabs of characters within the same legacy, which is one of the main features of this game I would say and what could really sets it apart from other mmos if the time was taken to improve it (specially if this is a themepark mmo) .

With all that being said this was my last shot on the game. I definetly won't renew my subscription, unless we get the news of any of these things are being adressed. So far the only part of this game getting some real attention seems to be the cartel. I didn't even mention pvp , because since I heard they removed 8v8 ranked AFTER allowing people to transfer to pvp servers I see pvp as a non-feature in this game, it's just a way for players to get they 2nd place BIS pve relics (bad bad design that devs said it wouldn't happen again).

OP has a good point. From launch through 2.0. I would agree that the content release has been absolutely terrible and extremely lacking...however...I do feel that the second half of this year has been extremely promising.

I'm not fond of 4v4 arenas, they can scrap those, but it's an added bit of PvP content for slower times - it needs its own queue. The 2 new Ops with Arenas were also good. And I've been extremely pleased with GS so far.

Again though, Bioware leaves the play styles anemic with content. There are really only 3 Ops that are of any difficulty at 55. PvP suffers the most with just 2 maps in 2 freaking years. Arenas have just 4 maps and GS only has 2. They need to beef up the existing content in 2014...4 of each should be their goal.

OP has a good point. From launch through 2.0. I would agree that the content release has been absolutely terrible and extremely lacking...however...I do feel that the second half of this year has been extremely promising.

 

I'm not fond of 4v4 arenas, they can scrap those, but it's an added bit of PvP content for slower times - it needs its own queue. The 2 new Ops with Arenas were also good. And I've been extremely pleased with GS so far.

 

Again though, Bioware leaves the play styles anemic with content. There are really only 3 Ops that are of any difficulty at 55. PvP suffers the most with just 2 maps in 2 freaking years. Arenas have just 4 maps and GS only has 2. They need to beef up the existing content in 2014...4 of each should be their goal.

Reguarding the OPS I would even say at this moment, the only ones that seem challenging are the nightmare ones, most dedicated guilds have DF and DP on farm now. This is another thing i don't get though. Why do they only release sm and hm leaving nim , which is the actual challenge to be released later ? IT would be nice if at least they nim something that would take months for even the most dedicated guilds to clear.

4 Pages about this guy leaving SWTOR? Who cares!

SWTOR is a game... if you are not having fun while you are playing it... than stop playing it!

^^ I think that with this response, we can bring a rapid closure to this thread.

Reguarding the OPS I would even say at this moment, the only ones that seem challenging are the nightmare ones, most dedicated guilds have DF and DP on farm now. This is another thing i don't get though. Why do they only release sm and hm leaving nim , which is the actual challenge to be released later ? IT would be nice if at least they nim something that would take months for even the most dedicated guilds to clear.

Because NiMs usually feature more than just an increase in numbers of how hard something hits.

And I get the feeling they are usually based on how difficult people found the hard mode and how it was patched. So they take the fully "done" version of hard mode and start tweaking and adding new stuff.

I'm surprised how come no one came out and asked the OP to give his stuff away...

None of knows how to say "Can I haz yer stuffs" in German.

Because NiMs usually feature more than just an increase in numbers of how hard something hits.

And I get the feeling they are usually based on how difficult people found the hard mode and how it was patched. So they take the fully "done" version of hard mode and start tweaking and adding new stuff.

Don't they get feedback from PTS and internal testing ? I would think this would be enough.