I actually prefer it this way as it allows me to have an Explosive Dart, Tracer Missile, Heatseaker Missile, and Rail Shot all hurt the target at the same time. Well actually its kind of unfair but hey if you guys are defending the system you're defending my 10k pvp burst combo.

Mind you, I'm not defending anything at all...I just want, no matter what system is in place, a perfectly working combat system for all!

I like how they do things, but you have peeps having a problem with hitting the button and then .5 or more later, the animation starts...Then you have people like me that get absolutely no response sometimes, and then a lot experiencing both...

Until that gets addressed, people will not be able to enjoy SWTOR's combat no matter how good its suppose to be, if its not working completely 100% perfect

I would like to constructively underline that I also experience, skill lag, response delay, animation not flowing on damage result, skill stuck.

I rather have less complex animations then then huge delay on damage result. When using mutiple skills im not sure witch skill do what damage because everything is just messy.

I think this is easy to solved. Lets get to work.

I personally don't see a problem with the animation carrying out in instant attack before damage is applied or whatever, as long as the animation for it starts the exact same time you hit the button...

Your right in theory: that it would be fine "as long as the animation for it starts the exact same time you hit the button."

Here is the problem. Animations aren't being governed by the internal clock of the game. In other words, animations are tied to that persons connection to the game. Animations are irregular at best; sometimes they happen perfectly, sometimes they take awhile to get started sometimes they happen to fast. Animations in this game are unreliable and spontaneous.

Now with that concept in mind put 20 people with varying connections in the same room and let them fight where their ability executions are tied to their animations and what do you have? A mess

The only way to really fix the character responsiveness is to tie every ability and execution to a strict internal clock that everyone is subject too. Only then will things become fluid. Sure you may have some screwy looking and clipped animations at times, but you will have a responsive game.

Wow you don't get it all. There's a difference between wanting a responsive functional game and wanting a insta death pvp game bro.

 

The game is not slower paced. It simply is not working as it should. How can you explain being able to interrupt instant casts and off gcd abilities not registering after 3+ globals?

 

Yeah sure you're a better player than me because your animination happened to not lock your abilities out and mine did okay.

 

Go look through the videos in these threads and tell me you have not experience a single one of those issues. And again fraps a Warzone for us because that's where it is most noticeable - at least for me.

Then I am not having the same issues as you at all..

my gameplay is ICE smooth.. if i press a key it fires no delay.. and I play a Mar so that matters alot..

there is no delay except at times of server lag and that is rare.

Mind you, I'm not defending anything at all...I just want, no matter what system is in place, a perfectly working combat system for all!

 

I like how they do things, but you have peeps having a problem with hitting the button and then .5 or more later, the animation starts...Then you have people like me that get absolutely no response sometimes, and then a lot experiencing both...

 

Until that gets addressed, people will not be able to enjoy SWTOR's combat no matter how good its suppose to be, if its not working completely 100% perfect

The zero responsiveness is terrible, I get it alot. There seems to be some annoying bug where the game thinks you're moving sometimes too and won't let you use cast time abilities until you use an instant to "fix" it.

BTW to the above post, Marauder is the other class with Merc that does not really have this issue. Their skill execution times are very fast.

i have to agree with this, i have played WoW since the start and realistically people the GAMEPLAY is what keeps people in WoW. I really like star wars but I cant see myself paying a monthly fee if this issue does not get resolved.

I dont care about the last .5 seconds of an animation at the cost of abilitiy function and user gameplay. Clip the animations if you have to but GAMEPLAY > everything.

MARK MY WORDS

i have to agree with this, i have played WoW since the start and realistically people the GAMEPLAY is what keeps people in WoW. I really like star wars but I cant see myself paying a monthly fee if this issue does not get resolved.

 

I dont care about the last .5 seconds of an animation at the cost of abilitiy function and user gameplay. Clip the animations if you have to but GAMEPLAY > everything.

 

MARK MY WORDS

Thats the primary mistake Bioware made here. Sure the storyline and voice acting is nice but it is still fluff on top of gameplay. Gameplay first if you want a good game, then add the other stuff on top of it....

Instead based on beta it was the other way around where gameplay was largely ignored until the last six months of beta and then underwent complete revamps and radical changes.

Thats the primary mistake Bioware made here. Sure the storyline and voice acting is nice but it is still fluff on top of gameplay. Gameplay first if you want a good game, then add the other stuff on top of it....

 

Instead based on beta it was the other way around where gameplay was largely ignored until the last six months of beta and then underwent complete revamps and radical changes.

darkheart?

Funny!!!

I have pretty much given up Xcore, feel bad but I dont see any hope here.

Same, just cancelled my sub, the current game is not worth the frustartion. Ah btw i just got response for ym ticket about lack of party chat,guild chat, this is alos well known bug. in short they know it is happening, they suggested iq uit quild maybe it will help but other than that thay dont have a fcking idea how to help me yeah BW "support" looooool

Then I am not having the same issues as you at all..

 

my gameplay is ICE smooth.. if i press a key it fires no delay.. and I play a Mar so that matters alot..

 

 

there is no delay except at times of server lag and that is rare.

Someone let Bioware know that this guy's client is the key to fixing this issue.

Someone let Bioware know that this guy's client is the key to fixing this issue.

WE gotta make a vaccine outta his client!

Then I am not having the same issues as you at all..

 

my gameplay is ICE smooth.. if i press a key it fires no delay.. and I play a Mar so that matters alot..

 

 

there is no delay except at times of server lag and that is rare.

i hope i never come across u on the battlefield, youll be dancing circles around me.

you probably play really good

Thats the primary mistake Bioware made here. Sure the storyline and voice acting is nice but it is still fluff on top of gameplay. Gameplay first if you want a good game, then add the other stuff on top of it....

 

Instead based on beta it was the other way around where gameplay was largely ignored until the last six months of beta and then underwent complete revamps and radical changes.

That's hopefully not true, is it?

It's a troll, right?

If it is true, HELLO ANOTHER WoW-GAME WHERE THE DEVS DO NOT GIVE A CRAP

I found a way to make the game display it's own delay in a way that everybody can see/understand:

 

MED SCAN ability of your ship-droid!

 

1) target yourself

2) press MED SCAN on the companion bar

3) instead of healing, a green X appears over the button

4) when the heal actually starts the green X will disappear

 

So for the entire duration you see the green X that is the delay. And it is longer than the lag. But I don't know why it happens. In a perfect world you will not see a green X, or it will blink for 60ms (lag). But not even that, because the client should start the heal cast bar and not wait for the server response to create a better 'tight' feeling.

 

VIDEO HERE:

Yup, nailed it. And this EXACT issue existed in wow at release. It was almost a year later that they decided to change the behavior to client side. Made a world of difference to the playability of the game.

i mean if they want the animations to be the globals i guess i could be cool with that but you gotta balance the abilities around the animation durations then......

either way they need to change something, but when i press an ability after global ends of which is not on cooldown and it doesnt work cuz my previous ability is still in an animation, either the previous ability needs to be buffed to compensate for the lost time or you gotta clip the animation.

... it's just something that some people have gotten used to. ...

The point the OP tried to make is not 'something we got used to', it was to show what works correctly. Games that come close to a popular pvp or competitive audience are for example WoW, GW, SC2, HoN, WC3, DOTA2 and LoL. They all use stacking and clipping to run things smoothly and give you the feeling that you have complete control over your character and his abilities. Now TOR on the other hand, uses none of these and not any new solution either. So we have no choice but to suggest BioWare the solutions that have worked for games in the passed.

Bioware could go for the full animation like you would like to see. But they would have to make sure that:

1. Spells that are already cast while in animation but have actually finished, that the next spell IS registered or allowed to be stacked. This way we don't suffer from idle characters or characters trying to start an animation, before it has triggered the spell's effect.

2. Use clipping, which you dont seem to like, but allows abilities to be cast as you press your keys which bypasses the lag between server and player for animations to finish up. I don't know any solution for this problem.

3. It's basically the way BioWare decided to handle the game client side which is the opposite of how the games above work.

i mean if they want the animations to be the globals i guess i could be cool with that but you gotta balance the abilities around the animation durations then......

 

either way they need to change something, but when i press an ability after global ends of which is not on cooldown and it doesnt work cuz my previous ability is still in an animation, either the previous ability needs to be buffed to compensate for the lost time or you gotta clip the animation.

Exactly, the way animations work now is like having an extra global cooldown where you lose time.

When was the last time you read the first post? There is no such list that I am asking for.

Believe it or not, I dont a abide by your will. I should say also, what's with the insecurity of WoW comparisons? Market leader, WoW... this particular topic has been nailed by blizzard the best, it shall be compared. If it cannot hold its ground, that is not my fault.

The best example of this problem (which happens all over combat/abilities) is when mounting. It is easily replicable. We've all seen the video on the front page where the guy mounts and "starts running before he's mounted". Try doing the same thing in this game. YOU GET DISMOUNTED if the mounting animation has not finished playing. It's ludicrous.

Yep! This happens to me almost every time I mount. Because I'm used to the WOW mounts. Then "oops" i get dismounted, and have to do it again.

You know...I hear on one side, WoW was perfect at launch, and then I hear people that say WoW suffered from a similar problem at first

So what one is it?

If WoW experienced a similar problem but was able to fix it, then I'm afraid it would they would have to mimic WoW's combat..Maybe not...But it does give hope that there is a remedy...

I will tell you this with my experience of playing wow for almost 6 years is I would occassionally get the "no response" when hitting a button which had me spamming my frostbolts all the time to make sure they went off directly after the last cast...And a lot of times my caster wouldnt be in sync, but I will say that did not effect the time of the cast

You know...I hear on one side, WoW was perfect at launch, and then I hear people that say WoW suffered from a similar problem at first

 

So what one is it?

 

If WoW experienced a similar problem but was able to fix it, then I'm afraid it would they would have to mimic WoW's combat..Maybe not...But it does give hope that there is a remedy...

 

I will tell you this with my experience of playing wow for almost 6 years is I would occassionally get the "no response" when hitting a button which had me spamming my frostbolts all the time to make sure they went off directly after the last cast...And a lot of times my caster wouldnt be in sync, but I will say that did not effect the time of the cast

Don't listen to uninformed *****. WoW had a horrible launch, arguably because for the time it was expected. However, the core gameplay responsiveness and issues discussed here were never an issue. They're confusing the issues...

Anyone claiming WoW had these issues at launch is equally as blind as the one claiming it had a "good" launch.

darkheart?

Haha yeah been awhile. Working now so I don't have the time to play like I used to in FF back then.

The point the OP tried to make is not 'something we got used to', it was to show what works correctly. Games that come close to a popular pvp or competitive audience are for example WoW, GW, SC2, HoN, WC3, DOTA2 and LoL. They all use stacking and clipping to run things smoothly and give you the feeling that you have complete control over your character and his abilities. Now TOR on the other hand, uses none of these and not any new solution either. So we have no choice but to suggest BioWare the solutions that have worked for games in the passed.

But where does it say that SWTOR is supposed to be a popular or competive PvP game, competing with the games you mention?

Bioware could go for the full animation like you would like to see. But they would have to make sure that:

 

1. Spells that are already cast while in animation but have actually finished, that the next spell IS registered or allowed to be stacked. This way we don't suffer from idle characters or characters trying to start an animation, before it has triggered the spell's effect.

2. Use clipping, which you dont seem to like, but allows abilities to be cast as you press your keys which bypasses the lag between server and player for animations to finish up. I don't know any solution for this problem.

3. It's basically the way BioWare decided to handle the game client side which is the opposite of how the games above work.

 

 

 

 

Exactly, the way animations work now is like having an extra global cooldown where you lose time.

Yes, actually I agree with this (although the other way round ), if I could think of any improvement, of something that would have to go, for me it would be the global cooldown. Have the animations be the CDs (most of the time).

I can only think the global cooldown is some sort of crutch for BW at the moment, keeping the game regular in some sense? It seems like a rather old-fashioned mechanic - games like CoH, Champions Online and DCUO seem to have done away with GCDs (I guess particularly because superhero games have to have a more instant quality).

I dunno, I'm not averse to a bit of clipping here and there, but overall I prefer a philosophy where the animation is tied to the combat, and you have a little queue (so you can queue up the next attack while the previous animation's finishing). That seems to be what BW are aiming for, and of that I approve, and would heartily disagree with going totally down the full-animation-clipping WoW route (PvP-popular or not).

But the trouble with SWTOR seems to be rather that, although the design idea is ok, it's just uneven in the way it actually works, i.e. it's not working properly all the time.

I personally dont see a problem with the animation carrying out in instant attack before damage is applied or whatever, as long as the animation for it starts the exact same time you hit the button...

Yes it can. Consider GCD meter as an animation or animation as an GCD meter Both start and end only difference is that animation based CD differs in each ability and in fact makes playing harder thus more demanding in skill and thinking connected to well honed hand-eye coordination.

Anyways this is not the original issue but the responsiveness of character, for example the pointless delay between abilities and their animations than happen after GCD timer or the fact that nothing happens when you press a button connected to ability or if happens it has delay too great between pushing the button and actual ability trigger.

Apply larger scale of thought twin paradox