I'm not sure if you read what I wrote but I know that I won't have aggro for more than 6 seconds so the taunt is more than enough. It's not like I stop my rotation but I need aggro on her the moment she spawns not taunting wipes us

 

I don't think you understood what I wrote my friend. . She wipes you because you all stack with the healers, who by default have aggro from her. By stacking with the healers, it means all of you get cleaved. But if you isolate your healers, one, person is going to get cleaved for 2 gcds? Sorry I cannot make it clearer than this . My post was quite clear how the 'wiping mechanic' works which is hardly any panic as you know who will get the two original stacks.

 

I explained a mechanic which you did not understand hence you opened with a taunt. If you open with a taunt and the boss dies, do not take into account what I say. In my group, we know exactly who will get a few stacks before the tank taunts. It is not a life and death scenario if done right and we never open with a taunt on her.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Leafy_Bug

leafy, you both know how brontes works. I also know she works.

The way I see it:

 

Option a

Don't taunt and let a healer take damage while you get aggro the normal way.

pro: you have an extra taunt to use on either an orb or kephess clone

con: healer takes damage

Scenario:

Brontes appears and sprays a healer or the whole group with 1 or 2 arcs. After the cast the tank who took aggro on brontes will go off to tank the clone (which spawns almost immediatly after the channel).

 

Option b

Taunt the boss and take the damage yourself.

pro: you take damage. Since the healers most likely were not sleeping they precasted heals on you.

con: You 'wasted' 1 taunt which might come in handy on a Kephess clone

Scenario:

Brontes appears and sprays the tank who taunted her. After the cast that tank will go off to tank the clone.

 

Unless NiM mechanics are way different that what I portrayed I don't see any harm at all with option b.

The only real downside is not having your taunt ready on a clone. But than again you won't have enough taunts for every clone and/or tankswap assuming a tankswap at every channel.

 

Since you are a shadowtank I assume you are using resilience on the 1st cast. This offcourse makes the story different since your co-tank won't be there for a long while. But than again ...... I did state it as a prerequirement to have your cotank ready with a tauntswap ;-)

 

EDIT:

Just to clear. An arc hitting the whole raid won't or shouldn't cause a wipe perse. Its not helping either ofc but the incoming damage on at least HM never killed my opsgroup

Edited July 13, 2014 by fire-breath

I always taunt, it won't do my healer taking damage from this. I never loose aggro there, as after taunt runs out we tank swap.

I'm not sure why you'd let anyone but tanks (or anyone at all with a Shadow/Assassin tank) take stacks at the start of that phase.

 

Even in NiM it's easy for the tank to be positioned at the entrance/exit portal and the rest of the raid the opposite side behind the boss when she spawns.

 

I taunt, pull, shroud and use 3 stacks recklessness force lightning. I then have max stacks of dark protection while having received no debuff or damage at all. I continue my hybrid rotation, sprinkle in an AoE taunt, pop blackout in time for it cover the next arcing assault and then swap.

 

This sees shroud come off cooldown in time for me to take the final orb going into the transition and have recklessness back in time to use on the first droid.

Edited July 13, 2014 by DogEyedBoy

If Brontes attack your healers/dps when she spawned you are doing something wrong.

 

Let your Sin use phase walk right in the middle where brontes will spawn. He has to teleport after the last hands spawned and taunt the boss. When brontes finished her cast the other tank taunt brontes, sin will go to get kephess. He still has an aoe taunt if kephess should run to a dps. This is not really the toughest phase of the fight and there are a lot of videos showing how it can be done.

Some operation bosses you can safely openup with a taunt.[/Quote]

Please note underlined.

Hint: Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

 

Take in mind the dread palace bosses are based on HM experience. While DF is NiM knowledge (personal and/or theorized).[/Quote]

Please note underlined in quote for original post (which I'm going to assume you've read and understood):

..., So i think to myself why now try to tank again since im already experience for more than a year now, ...

Continue nitpicking if you feel overwhelming a fresh tank with information that's basically useless to him at this point in time is a good idea.

 

gg hf

Please note underlined.

Hint: Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

 

 

Please note underlined in quote for original post (which I'm going to assume you've read and understood):

 

Continue nitpicking if you feel overwhelming a fresh tank with information that's basically useless to him at this point in time is a good idea.

 

gg hf

 

Sigh

 

Basically vash asked: "Is it bad to use a taunt in my opener"

 

Due to his and mine lesser familiarity with English he either meant:

- Should I open up with a taunt

or

- Should I use a taunt in my opening rotation even while having aggro myself

 

I responded

TL;DR: When you can't afford to lose aggro and when you have a co-tank ready to taunt too its perfectly viable to openup with a taunt as 1st gcd or at least 2nd/3rd.

 

and

 

EDIT: just to be clear. The above isn't optimal and openers like KBN and leafy provided are always better if those will keep your aggro. The above is purely based on whats possible to do and why its not such a big no no as some people suggest.

 

I really don't know why you feel the need to be sarcastic to me with you gg hf mention.

1. How am I nitpicking? The above quotes are the only things I said. The rest is just an addition.

2. He is asking for our thoughts about it so I give him my thoughts

3. I am always propagating the flexible tanking school (or however you want to call it)

 

A tank needs to assess every situation on its own merit. Just like I'm trying to tell you with guarding a dps vs healer. My point is:

Don't follow static rules but do whats best for you and your team in that situation. If that means you openup with a taunt than open up with an early taunt.

 

A bit offtopic but just to illustrate what i mean by flexible tanking.

 

 

aggro multiplier of 0 threat(opener) is zero. force pull is a great opener, and use stealth discharge with groups

Ok, this is coming from a Sin DPS who has a Guardian and Powertech Tank as alts. I was running TFB HM with my new raid group, it took 6 pulls to clear the first boss, purely because A. I was pulling major DPS as my Madness Sin (2.2k - 2.5k DPS with about 3.3k threat gen (Because Death Field is OP)) and therefore pulled aggro from the boss, releasing the adds too quickly and B. we screwed up the mechanics a bit. All you mostly will need to keep threat on the boss is to guard a high threat MELEE DPS. and a good rotation, only time you should need your taunts is when you are either A. Tank Swapping, B. Threat Boosting (aka, where Tank 1 taunts, wait 6 seconds and Tank 2 Taunts to get a HUGE threat boost) or C. Grouping up adds with AOE taunt.

Ok, this is coming from a Sin DPS who has a Guardian and Powertech Tank as alts. I was running TFB HM with my new raid group, it took 6 pulls to clear the first boss, purely because A. I was pulling major DPS as my Madness Sin (2.2k - 2.5k DPS with about 3.3k threat gen (Because Death Field is OP)) and therefore pulled aggro from the boss, releasing the adds too quickly and B. we screwed up the mechanics a bit. All you mostly will need to keep threat on the boss is to guard a high threat MELEE DPS. and a good rotation, only time you should need your taunts is when you are either A. Tank Swapping, B. Threat Boosting (aka, where Tank 1 taunts, wait 6 seconds and Tank 2 Taunts to get a HUGE threat boost) or C. Grouping up adds with AOE taunt.

 

Ehm, I hope you guys didn't wipe 6 times because of you pulling aggro 6x? Best way for the tanks to learn to hold aggro ofc but its a pretty heavy tool to use. I personally always took and take it easy if we can't afford to pull as dps (if I would expect the tank to lose aggro that is). Plus its not like you will meet enrage on her.

 

Anyways, going into the realm of nitpicking ....... guard the dps which is most likely to pulloff aggro. This is not always a melee dps if the ranged are stronger. Best example I could give is that I get aggro at times even when there are unguarded melee dps in the group.

 

About threat boosting. I once saw a picture of a tank on raptus with a ******** of threat. I don't remember who it was but his statement was that raptus would 'even follow you to the bridge after transport' . Regardless if its true or not the threat was very high he got.

Ok, this is coming from a Sin DPS who has a Guardian and Powertech Tank as alts. I was running TFB HM with my new raid group, it took 6 pulls to clear the first boss, purely because A. I was pulling major DPS as my Madness Sin (2.2k - 2.5k DPS with about 3.3k threat gen (Because Death Field is OP)) and therefore pulled aggro from the boss, releasing the adds too quickly and B. we screwed up the mechanics a bit. All you mostly will need to keep threat on the boss is to guard a high threat MELEE DPS. and a good rotation, only time you should need your taunts is when you are either A. Tank Swapping, B. Threat Boosting (aka, where Tank 1 taunts, wait 6 seconds and Tank 2 Taunts to get a HUGE threat boost) or C. Grouping up adds with AOE taunt.

 

This makes no sense. How are you pulling 800-1.1k more TPS than DPS and what has it got to do with Death Field? Granted, Death Field and DOTs will give you some healing threat, but nowhere near that amount, and with threat drop... I can only imagine you're running in tank stance and/or using taunt to get that much more TPS than DPS.

This makes no sense. How are you pulling 800-1.1k more TPS than DPS and what has it got to do with Death Field? Granted, Death Field and DOTs will give you some healing threat, but nowhere near that amount, and with threat drop... I can only imagine you're running in tank stance and/or using taunt to get that much more TPS than DPS.

 

Nope i'm not. It's because i have 33% Force Crit, and that i try to death field as many targets at a time. trust me, i pull ALOT of threat.

Nope i'm not. It's because i have 33% Force Crit, and that i try to death field as many targets at a time. trust me, i pull ALOT of threat.

 

Kaos kid, you've said a lot of really stupid things on the forums over the past period of time that I wish I'd never seen any posts from you, but this simply takes the cake. Threat is not related to crit in any way shape or form. It is tied with damage and threat modifiers. That is all. You cannot generate more threat than damage dealt as a dps except in specific circumstances barring taunts. Please stop posting.

Nope i'm not. It's because i have 33% Force Crit, and that i try to death field as many targets at a time. trust me, i pull ALOT of threat.

 

Ehm? You are aware that 1st boss in tfb doesn't have adds in the opening? And even than death field won't make you pull aggro on a boss. If you mean to say that its early in your rotation which makes you bursty than yes. But that wasn't what you were saying ;-). Also any decent tank should hold aggro against it.

Not to mention 2.2-2.5k dps is ridiculously low on a boss where you can have pretty much constant single target damage and on top of that you get incidental extra damage from Larvas and the Jealous Male with Death Field. As Madness, you really should have at least 3k, even close to 4k here if even remotely geared.

Ehm? You are aware that 1st boss in tfb doesn't have adds in the opening? And even than death field won't make you pull aggro on a boss. If you mean to say that its early in your rotation which makes you bursty than yes. But that wasn't what you were saying ;-). Also any decent tank should hold aggro against it.

 

There is Incubation debuff on tank on boss that stacks, If more than one person gets the Incubation debuff, a Foul Offspring seem to spawn immediately, as many of them as the stacks on the person that does not have the boss anymore and this clears the debuff. This is the reason for swapping the tanks.

If this happens too early and no pool available is a bit not good. So he right that this may cause a wipe.

Some bosses are harder to keep aggro this one of them. It is not walk in the park and it is really important due to mechanics. I remember some threads in the past that people suggesting adrenals and stuff.

And couse this is "should i taunt" thread - in NiM i use taunt right before she burrows for the first time, to give me the time to find where she is next.

 

The other stuff that he says is really sad & wrong:

All you mostly will need to keep threat on the boss is to guard a high threat MELEE DPS. and a good rotation, only time you should need your taunts is when you are either A. Tank Swapping, B. Threat Boosting (aka, where Tank 1 taunts, wait 6 seconds and Tank 2 Taunts to get a HUGE threat boost) or C. Grouping up adds with AOE taunt.

1. Have seen many DPS like this "i did not got guard and i was pissed off and made everything possible to take boss to show that i need a guard"

The real challenge as DPS for me is different. Not to have a guard, do enough DPS and not take the boss

Not always best DPS gets aggro. Sometimes it may be the worst one. As like we are moving the boss and somebody decides to get bursty. And if I have 4 DPS that do samish DPS, i may guard the one that i trust least. E.g. the worst player from my point of view.

2. Tank swapping when no needed for boosting, could not work here as well. If tank with stacks already it will result the same as DPS gets the boss, 2 people with debuff & ads spawn ...

3. Add should be grouped in pull, no AOE taunt here until last phase that the free tank may get some away from the healz and kite them.

4. Operation is teamwork So if you wipe check what you can improve, not demand only others to improve.

Edited July 21, 2014 by jade_de_aguilera

There is Incubation debuff on tank on boss that stacks, If more than one person gets the Incubation debuff, a Foul Offspring seem to spawn immediately,

 

2. Tank swapping when no needed for boosting, could not work here as well. If tank with stacks already it will result the same as DPS gets the boss, 2 people with debuff & ads spawn ...

 

Actually Taunt fluffing may work. IF the tanks know what to do and most importantly WHEN to taunt it.

Pardon my wording below but this is how I envision this bossfight.

 

Basically this boss implants her offspring in the belly of the person she has aggro on. She keeps filling the belly till she gives you 10. After you got 10 of these embryos You explode since a ten babies is way to much to handle. This is why you need to tankswap eventually.

Since she also happens to have a very jealous male, swapping on that moment works out the best for most groups.

 

Once she looses aggro on someone the stacks of embryos will run out and you will give birth to several younglings. IF you manage to taunt the boss before you she implants the next embryo you will be safe and good to go.

 

But than again. If a tank knows about this and is capable of tauntfluffing without issues than my guess is that said person also would know how to not lose aggro on her.