Have any tanks tried skipping Energy Blast and going for Gut instead?

 

Ive done it and i can say if u have in some way mastered ur tanking ( u know how te respond in different situations) and u can manage ur ammo good then , go for gut!!!In pve and pvp there are ****loads of cc's,So having at any point of the fight a dot on ur enemy or npc target keeps u up with threat(or prevent enemy for getting objtives in warzones while in cc ) .

I have to say also from the very 1rst moment i knew i was playing tank and i saw energy blast as talent skill i was a bit dissapointed but thats not the point , the point is gut will serve u much better in a bigger spectrum of situations - while energy blast is just a 15 sec cd skill that give u 1 cell (well this can boost up ur ammo regen state from fast-very fast ,but still think its not worth it)

Edited January 17, 2012 by kuan

I was thinking along the lines of this:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GMGMdorkMZMsrMoZb.1

 

It should cover both PVE and PVP aspects of tanking... I would love to hear feed back about this build, I'm 41 now, but this is the path I've chosen for tanking...

No i don't

 

Let's say that Champion boss took 10 mins to kill and you took 150,000 damage that means for 5 points you gained:

 

Ion Shield = 3000 Damage saved = 1-2 Heals over a 10 minute fight...

 

Endurance = Extra 500ish HPs at 50 (Less than 1 hit from a boss at 50)

 

No I don't think that is worth 5 points when stacked against:

 

Gut which does 700ish Damage initial and then a dot for another 800 damage over 15 secs = 1500 secs (Which makes this better than any ability you have except Stockstrike for the ammo cost).

 

Which means every 15 secs you did a MINIMUM of 1500 damage = 10 mins * 4 casts a minute = 40 Casts * 15000 = 60,000 damage * 6% (Frontline Offense - which you have to get regardless if you go gut which also adds to Ion Pulse) = 63,360 damage total. This is a lot of extra damage over a fight for 1 skill.

 

And lets not even talk about how great an INTERNAL damage ability is (negates armor) in PvP...

 

So your looking at this tradeoff for a 10 minute boss fight that hypothetically did 150k damage:

 

63,360 Damage done vs. 3000 Damage reduction + 500 hp cap ...

 

Yea Ill take the 63,360 damage any day...

 

 

Ion Shield with 2 points added in to it will add 2% damage reduction to your already 5% damage reduction from Ion Cell. So with that in mind you will have a 7% damage reduction on a mob if you put 2 points in to Ion shield.

 

So a boss hits you for 150,000 over a 10 min fight with the 2 point in Ion shield you will reduce the damage by 10,500 *That is a 7% reduction* with out the 2 points you will reduce the damage taken by only 7,500.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Razriel

This is the build I'm working towards at the moment: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GoMrdRrRxZMsbMo.1

 

In PvE it works well for me and I PvP in the same spec.

First, the 'cookie-cutter' build many BHs have been using for tanking dips heavily into the right tree, not the middle for Gut(Retractable Blade). Second, there's a thread on Powertech forums that might interest some here.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=237704

 

The thread mostly talks about the difference in DPS between a full tank build compared to the famed 'Carolina Parakeet' 21/2/18 build.

 

It is all very interesting reading, but the 5th page holds special meaning for folks in this thread. The author ran multiple specs/priorities through their simulation(looking at the data it seems to be a solid sim), one of which was a standard Gut/Retractable Blade tanking build suggested earlier in the thread.

 

The results say full tank spec is currently king, even with a sub-par endliner. The Gut build in particular ends up vastly inferior due to poor heat dissipation/ammo regeneration. You may not think you're having ammo/heat issues, but long-term fights you're gimping your resource by using Gut/Retractable Blade in PvE.

This is my current spec. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801rMGrdoroTZMsbMo.1

 

 

I have tanked everything up to and including hardmode EV. I have also tried pretty much every available tanking option and for me this is my favorite...

 

you lose 2 percent shield chance but gain 2 percent reduced damage overall...

 

Gut for tanking is invaluable for one its high damage which equates to more aggro as this game doesen't have real aggro ramping abilities and two it procs high impact bolt nuff said... going all the way up shielding is pretty pointless my healers don't notice a difference and i do more damage its also a God in PvP.

 

Energy blast is pointless. yeah if you have ammo issues i guess but if you manage it properly that should never happen. i have run out of ammo before but by the time that happens i could hold the mob with hammer shot if i wanted to for a long *** time.

 

 

If anyone has any suggestions to make this spec better post you're suggestions.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Zeve

Granted, I haven't started playing my vanguard yet (one of my first alts, though, to be sure!), but I feel like the synergy between Focused Impact and Brutal Impact makes skipping Brutal Impact, as you have, somewhat detrimental. Additionally, and this may be moot, since I haven't seen much of group play in the 30-50 range, but skipping a skill that gives +3% Endurance seems like a poor choice for higher levels.

 

Again, perhaps this makes a ton more sense for people who are already playing this class and getting into the higher level content, but would you mind going into some of the reasons for those choices? Many thanks!

 

You are producing a much higher threat gen by not taking endurance and placing more points into the tactics tree. I consider vangaurd tanks to be mitigation/damage reducing..I leave the hp to the avoidance tanks.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801G0GrdorogZMsbMo.1

 

I've not done hard mode ops but this has been my build all along and I've never had any issues. I love Gut. When I have to move around a bit due to a phase change or spread out mobs I can just drop Gut on the mob and move with a feeling of "Play with that until I get back."

Has anyone followed this advice about Gut? I am curious to know if it makes the Trooper tank do more damage.

>Not putting 3 points in Endurance instead of SS damage and Blaster Augs.

>ISHYGDDT

 

Percentage stat increases get increasingly better as gear gets better, so it may be ok to get Blaster Augs and SS talent as a fresh 50, but if you want to tank endgame, you better have the 3% endurance.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801G0GrdorogzZMcbZ0c.1

That's the best build out there.

Edited February 18, 2012 by GreenLantern

>Not putting 3 points in Endurance instead of SS damage and Blaster Augs.

>ISHYGDDT

 

Percentage stat increases get increasingly better as gear gets better, so it may be ok to get Blaster Augs and SS talent as a fresh 50, but if you want to tank endgame, you better have the 3% endurance.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801G0GrdorogzZMcbZ0c.1

That's the best build out there.

 

+8% Stockstrike damage is worse than +2% Endurance...why exactly? The moment an unguarded melee DPS class does about 60% more DPS than you do, he will pull aggro.

 

Stockstrike talent will be effective every time you are using the skill, helping you maintain the aggro. +2% endurance will be effective only until your HP drops under 98%, after that it does nothing.

+8% Stockstrike damage is worse than +2% Endurance...why exactly? The moment an unguarded melee DPS class does about 60% more DPS than you do, he will pull aggro.

 

Stockstrike talent will be effective every time you are using the skill, helping you maintain the aggro. +2% endurance will be effective only until your HP drops under 98%, after that it does nothing.

 

No, the +2% endurance will be useful every time incoming damage = your total hit points - (+2% Endurance value of hit points). Meaning this skill gives your healers more breathing room and reduces the likelihood of you getting whacked during "high damage" phases.

 

That being said, I think Stockstrike occurs more frequently than the aforementioned hit point deficit, so the benefit of the Stockstrike buff is larger. That said, I haven't really gotten too far into Hard Mode Ops let alone Nightmare, so I haven't really seen what kind of damage tanks are taking and can't speak to how necessary that extra health becomes.

I tank Nightmare Ops weekly. Threat is not an issue. Damage is. 3% endurance is a huge buff that gets exponentially better with your gear. at my gear level it comes out to about 650 hp which is much more valuable than 100-200 more damage to stock strike. Remember, your primary goal is to not die and stock strike is only 1 of your many threat generating abilities. Harpoon bosses when you pull and you will realize threat isn't an issue at all.

I tank Nightmare Ops weekly. Threat is not an issue. Damage is. 3% endurance is a huge buff that gets exponentially better with your gear. at my gear level it comes out to about 650 hp which is much more valuable than 100-200 more damage to stock strike. Remember, your primary goal is to not die and stock strike is only 1 of your many threat generating abilities. Harpoon bosses when you pull and you will realize threat isn't an issue at all.

 

fair enough