First, glad this is being addressed. Trying to be constructive with my feedback. Overall, the pendulum swung way too far with crafting and I don't think these changes are enough to bring things into balance. I get having increased costs in this tier but even with these changes it's out of whack.

 

The materials required for “material combination” schematics was too high. We are making the following changes:

 

Still way too high. If we have to successively roll up subassemblies/bonded components, then base costs need to return to the 2:2:2 requirements of previous tiers. Overall costs are already much higher because successive levels of bonded components require the quality below the one you're making. Blue requires green etc. 6 is better than 10 for green components. But that's just "less bad". It's still TRIPLE the cost of the previous tier and that's before you even start combining up to blue or purple quality. Revert to 2:2:2.

 

Although we want to incentivize harvesting over missions for gathering skills, mission inflow was a little too low:

 

Remove the increased failure chance of missions for ALL yields that happened between tiers 10 and 11. Seriously, why is this even a thing? At a minimum, make it so a companion at influence level 50 nullifies the increased failure rate.

 

Getting crafting schematics when deconstructing gear was too hard with too low of a chance:

 

The bug fix of getting the right mats in deconstruction is fine. Reverse engineering chance needs a HUGE increase at the proposed cost of materials. Either put the chances back to the previous values, or change RE entirely so that you "gain experience/progress" and get the schematic after 4 or 5 deconstructions.

 

Too high of a requirement for Matrixes when crafting:

 

Dial back the number of Matrices required for schematics that actually should use them as well. The only schematics that should have exorbitant materials cost or based on limited acquisition mats are the legendary ones. Most players don't have ways of obtaining a lot of these throttled materials.

 

The materials that you are earning are not coming in at the correct ratio of Premium : Prototype : Artifact to correlate

 

Definitely a positive change. Can we also talk about Jawa Junk? 200 Jawa Junk in exchange for ONE crafting mat is not at all a viable supplement to obtaining materials.

 

These are all currently planned changes for 6.0.2 so please let us know your thoughts. As always, we will continue to monitor crafting data and your feedback post-6.0.2 and make further changes as needed! Thanks everyone.

 

-eric[/color]

 

Credit where credit is due. You guys really have stepped up lately on the communication front, which is fantastic. Keep it coming.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Cupelixx

Soo crafting is the only thing that is going to be in 6.0.2 patch ?

or will other changes also be included?

Edited November 13, 2019 by _NovaBlast_

You won't like my answers but here goes: First, they "ignored" PTS feedback cuz they probably wanted/needed data & metrics from the actual 'live' servers before feeling 100% confident.

 

Secondly, you have to "wait" because....well.... coding takes time. (And i mean that seriously, not sarcastically. ) Plus, there are a few other non-related things being released in December as well. (just in time for 'Holiday season' break, etc. )

 

I'm as critical as anyone about certain particular decisions BioWare Dev Team makes sometimes, but at the end of the day: They are a small crew, with limited time & budget (thanks to EA/Disney) .

 

Ok, I'll give you that. Just burns me though cause I'm not fond of the statement, "I told you so" but it so aptly applies here.

Soo crafting is the only thing that is going to be in 6.0.2 patch ?

or will other changes also be included?

 

See this thread for clarification: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=971484

 

And you might be interested in these as well: http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/11142019/game-update-6.0.1

Edited November 13, 2019 by Nee-Elder

I'm glad these needed changes are coming, however...

 

I just want to know why you ignored the testers when we brought this to your attention repeatedly, but only then decided to change it after it went live with the general population?

 

Any chance the price of 200 scraps will be dropped from the Jawa vendors?

 

P.S. And why do we have to wait till mid December for this to happen, why not implement it now?

 

Crafting was a low priority, not given adequate time and resources to ensure a quality release.

 

Players engaged in crafting got the shaft because Bioware didn't prioritize and resource the changes to crafting, and rather than wait and do it right, went ahead and pushed it to live in beta state.

 

And that is a Keith and above (e.g. management) issue.

Edited November 13, 2019 by DawnAskham

Not to be a jerk, but that's not really an accomplishment. Old rafting was faceroll. You'd have to be a young child to not be able to grasp the old crafting system.

The point wasn't that crafting is hard or not easy to grasp. The point is that I have taken the time and effort to level things up prior to now, but these changes have made the cost of my time not worth the reward.

Hey all,

 

We have been reading your feedback since Onslaught launched (and of course from PTS beforehand) on your feelings on the current state of crafting. We agree with your feedback that it isn’t where we want it to be either. There are quite a few changes planned for 6.0.2 in December and we want to give you a preview of those changes today. As 6.0.2 will not have its own PTS, please use this thread to share your feedback on the changes.

 

• The materials required for “material combination” schematics was too high. We are making the following changes:
  
  • Premium and Prototype material requirements have been reduced to 6 each (down from 10).
    
  • Artifact material requirements have been reduced to 12 each (down from 15).
    
  • The requirements to convert Premium combination materials to Prototype has been reduced to 2 (down from 3).
    

  [*]Although we want to incentivize harvesting over missions for gathering skills, mission inflow was a little too low:

  • Increase overall inflow of Premium quality materials from Missions.
    
  • Increase material rewards from Wealthy Yield Missions.
    
  • Reduce the overall failure rate of “grey” quality Missions.
    

  [*]Getting crafting schematics when deconstructing gear was too hard with too low of a chance:

  • Broadly increased the chance to earn crafting schematics from deconstructing.
    
  • Sort of related, we are making a pass to ensure that deconstruction is giving the correct professions materials. Raise any specifics you have where this isn’t the case.
    

  [*]Too high of a requirement for Matrixes when crafting:

  • The Matrix material requirement has been removed from all schematics below Artifact quality.
    
  • We are looking closely at data around inflow of Legendary Ember requirements. We may increase requirements here but this is still being investigated.
    

  [*]The materials that you are earning are not coming in at the correct ratio of Premium : Prototype : Artifact to correlate with expenditure:

  • Rebalancing material inflow to match a 7:2:1 ratio that many of you have raised.
    

These are all currently planned changes for 6.0.2 so please let us know your thoughts. As always, we will continue to monitor crafting data and your feedback post-6.0.2 and make further changes as needed! Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Thanks Eric,

 

This addresses pretty much all my concerns except one.

 

Right now biochem is useful for the stims/adrenals/med packs. Synthweaving/Armormech/Armstech are good for augments only and Artifice/Cybertech are good for nothing really. Ok there are some schems for tacticals but that's really it. This is relative endgame of course.

 

That is an EXTREMELY narrow scope for endgame crafting. I kind of feel ripped off not only by the stuf that you are now going to change but also the point that there's a lot of cost involved in raising crafting only to find out you can barely do anything useful with it anymore. I would still hope that you would look into things like adding amplifiers to crafting. The idea is that you can deconstruct mods to get schems for amplifiers as well. Those schems are for amplifiers that you can use to apply to mods. They should not have the cheapest material costs and they should be divided over the 6 crafting skills. Roughly speaking:

Synthweaving: Force related Defense and Heal Amps

Artifice: Force Related Offensive Amps

Armormech: Tech Defensive and Heal Amps

Armstech: Tech Offensive Amps

Biochem: Gathering and Stim related

Cybertech: All others and Amplifier kits

 

Just an idea of course, but really something should be done to make crafting more than just stims and augments and I think that you've heard the concerns about the RNG and cost for Amplifiers today. I would get that this would be too much to manage for December but I really hope you will do something to make crafting more useful than it is now.

I'd like to put a good word in for REDUCING THE NUMBER OF VENDOR-BOUGHT ITEMS required. You know, the "standard xxx" items you buy from the Crew Skills vendor.

 

It's nothing but a wasted credit sink... it negatively impacts the players who cannot afford it, while the ones with tons of credits don't really care much. Training all 3 of your crew skill is already a 1.5 million credit sink anyway, there's just no reason for this to be so expensive!

Edited November 13, 2019 by damonskye

See this thread for clarification: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=971484

 

And you might be interested in these as well: http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/11142019/game-update-6.0.1

 

Thanks looks like i'm heading back to eso in a couple days .

I'd like to put a good word in for REDUCING THE NUMBER OF VENDOR-BOUGHT ITEMS required. You know, the "standard xxx" items you buy from the Crew Skills vendor.

 

It's nothing but a wasted credit sink... it negatively impacts the players who cannot afford it, while the ones with tons of credits don't really care much. Training all 3 of your crew skill is already a 1.5 million credit sink anyway, there's just no reason for this to be so expensive!

I'm not sure I agree with this. The reason is that they are high in numbers but much lower in cost. I think before 6.0 the high end ones cost 1850 credits each. Now it's around 300-400 or something like that.

 

And the game does need credit sinks. But I would prefer to have a higher price with lower numbers cause even when I buy 500 of them they don't last. I would already be happy if they simply reduced the requirements by half and simply doubled the price. High numbers for the sake of high numbers is just not really helpful.

Hey all,

 

We have been reading your feedback since Onslaught launched (and of course from PTS beforehand) on your feelings on the current state of crafting. We agree with your feedback that it isn’t where we want it to be either.

-eric

 

Eric, I'm sorry but you come across very condescending with that statement.

 

That fact is that you did not listen to any of the feedback about crafting while on the PTS, and it launched exactly where you wanted it to be with 6.0. Because only you (devs) know why such punitive changes where made in the first place.

Eric, I'm sorry but you come across very condescending with that statement.

 

That fact is that you did not listen to any of the feedback about crafting while on the PTS, and it launched exactly where you wanted it to be with 6.0. Because only you (devs) know why such punitive changes where made in the first place.

Agree with your statement, I know lots of folks posted what they could on the matter and I have to admit still wrapping my head around why the change that went through to live even in the first place. I know it takes time to get things down and I'm glad they are speaking about it and look to correct what's going in but I would also like to know why we are waiting over month to have crafting fixes implemented when it seem this is a big aspect of the game that is being a effected.

Edited November 13, 2019 by swiftrav

Eric, I'm sorry but you come across very condescending with that statement.

 

That fact is that you did not listen to any of the feedback about crafting while on the PTS, and it launched exactly where you wanted it to be with 6.0. Because only you (devs) know why such punitive changes where made in the first place.

It's utterly ridiculous to say his statement is condescending. That just makes no sense.

 

And you do have to learn the difference between "not listening" and "not getting what you want".

 

They have to listen to many different opinions and balance it with what they want to achieve themselves. So they will rarely do exactly do what you or I specifically ask.

 

It is also entirely possible that they did hear the complaints but needed to see what the larger player base would do on the live servers and adjust things based on a more solid basis. The fact that changes are coming next month is rather quick for BW and it tells me they were probably already planning to do this before 6.0 even hit the live servers. So maybe they did listen, but don't have the same timetable as you.

The materials required for “material combination” schematics was too high. We are making the following changes:

• Premium and Prototype material requirements have been reduced to 6 each (down from 10).
  
• Artifact material requirements have been reduced to 12 each (down from 15).
  
• The requirements to convert Premium combination materials to Prototype has been reduced to 2 (down from 3).
  

 

Definitely positive steps, thank you.

 

Although we want to incentivize harvesting over missions for gathering skills, mission inflow was a little too low:

• Increase overall inflow of Premium quality materials from Missions.
  
• Increase material rewards from Wealthy Yield Missions.
  
• Reduce the overall failure rate of “grey” quality Missions.
  

 

With regards to the first point, does this include both Rich and Bountiful missions? Which tend to be the primary missions run due to being the most cost effective, otherwise we're in the double dipping scenario of having to run Rich / Bountiful and Abundant / Moderate missions, which does have a knock on effect of both the time to craft (even with the reduction in component requirements) as well as cost. Not all crew missions provide materials that can be harvested from gathering on planets (Diplomacy / Treasure Hunting / Investigation / Underworld Trading), so not all materials can be negated cost wise. Especially when considering there is a strong mix of Premium to make Prototype, which makes Artifact components in 6.0 crafting.

 

Also, can the devs give some of the Crew Missions a quick pass-through please? Different materials are not always available from the same type of mission, I'll include an example;

 

 

 

 

I have another question on the last part about failure of missions, specifically related to amplifiers on gear. Can we get some form of confirmation on how the 10.5% we can gain for successful missions from amplifiers is worked out please Eric? For example, is this in addition to having Rank 50 companions and subscriber perks base values, or was the 10.5% taken off the base values prior to adding it back in, in the form of amplifiers? Some clarification on exactly how the 10.5% has an effect would be greatly appreciated. I might have missed something related to amplifiers, as others may have also.

 

Getting crafting schematics when deconstructing gear was too hard with too low of a chance:

• Broadly increased the chance to earn crafting schematics from deconstructing.
  
• Sort of related, we are making a pass to ensure that deconstruction is giving the correct professions materials. Raise any specifics you have where this isn’t the case.
  

 

Do we have specifics on the percentage changes being made? I'd hate for this to be negative feedback once done, even if it goes from where it is now to something like this;

 

 

 

 

That's something I would see as a positive change and would welcome.

 

Too high of a requirement for Matrixes when crafting:

• The Matrix material requirement has been removed from all schematics below Artifact quality.
  
• We are looking closely at data around inflow of Legendary Ember requirements. We may increase requirements here but this is still being investigated.
  

 

That's great the Matrix has been removed from anything below Artifact quality, definitely an improvement. Legendary Embers feel about right from the what I've crafted with them, not too high but not too low. Definitely a choice before crafting something.

 

The materials that you are earning are not coming in at the correct ratio of Premium : Prototype : Artifact to correlate with expenditure:

• Rebalancing material inflow to match a 7:2:1 ratio that many of you have raised.
  

 

Does this include node harvesting from open world sources? Also specifically on Archaeology nodes, can the balance between Artifact Fragments, Power Crystals and Colour Crystals be addressed? There simply isn't a good ratio currently with too many Colour Crystals and not enough Power Crystals.

 

 

These are all currently planned changes for 6.0.2 so please let us know your thoughts. As always, we will continue to monitor crafting data and your feedback post-6.0.2 and make further changes as needed! Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Thanks for the heads up on the changes. Mostly positive, depending on a few factors not disclosed.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Transcendent

Thanks looks like i'm heading back to eso in a couple days .

 

The irony of course being: Much of SWTOR's 6.0 was umm inspired by ESO's very similar systems.

 

If only BioWare had also been given the green-light to create a SWTOR version of 'Cyrodiil' , with SW Base defending as 'Keeps/Castles' and Secret Plans as 'Scrolls to own' and Blaster-cannons & Turrets as 'catapults' , etc. etc. ( coughs: What original 2012 ILUM open-world area should've been from the start)

 

Either way, i prefer STAR WARS, so i stay right here.

 

To Each His Own .

Although we want to incentivize harvesting over missions for gathering skills,

Really? I am all into crafting and gathering. I have spend lots'n lots of hours gathering resources in all types of MMOs I have played, with the exception of SWTOR. It's simply not worth running around. No matter what type you are looking for, they are hard to find and you simply get to few stuff for the time you have to run around for it. My crews are nearly constantly farming resources for all of my alts I am playing. Or I log into them only to generate resources.

 

Even the fragmentation of the game world with all the planets (which I like for all other purposes) hinders useful gathering too. If you want us to run around for them, there would have to be a massive change on all maps for it.

 

Just my two cents for that.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Goemoe

Thanks for the update Eric. I do welcome these changes as steps in the right direction. I get that you probably don't want to swing too hard in the opposite direction right now, but I do hope that you will be open to further changes later because I feel that these changes do not go far enough to correct the issues introduced with 6.0.

 

Removing the matrices from prototype items is good, but they should also be removed from artifact. Also there is no mention of removing isotopes from any quality level. In my opinion items up to and including artifact quality should require crewskill materials only, with exotic items like isotopes and matrices being reserved for legendary quality.

 

The resource costs still look to be too high, but that needs to be examined in the context of the supply side adjustments you are making and without full details and numbers it is hard to tell. Also the Jawa junk exchange needs to be brought down to some sane level in line with other grades.

I mean, it definitely is a step in the right direction.

 

Hard to say much more until i can test it.

 

Really? I am all into crafting and gathering. I have spend lots'n lots of hours gathering resources in all types of MMOs I have played, with the exception of SWTOR. It's simply not worth running around. No matter what type you are looking for, they are hard to find and you simply get to few stuff for the time you have to run around for it. My crews are nearly constantly farming resources for all of my alts I am playing. Or I log into them only to generate resources.

 

Even the fragmentation of the game world with all the planets (which I like for all other purposes) hinders useful gathering too. If you want us to run around for them, there would have to be a massive change on all maps for it.

 

Just my two cents for that.

 

You haven't been paying atention then. The materials you get from nodes in Onderon and Mek-sha are way more plentiful than what you get from missions, plus you got to pay for the missions.

 

Actually, regular mats aren't a problem for me at all. I just harvest the nodes as i'm doing my dailies. For me the problem is having to go to the material vendor in the fleet to buy the "grey" materials.

I wish we could have more material vendors in onderon and mek-sha, or on strongholds.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Nemmar

It's utterly ridiculous to say his statement is condescending. That just makes no sense.

 

And you do have to learn the difference between "not listening" and "not getting what you want".

 

They have to listen to many different opinions and balance it with what they want to achieve themselves. So they will rarely do exactly do what you or I specifically ask.

 

It is also entirely possible that they did hear the complaints but needed to see what the larger player base would do on the live servers and adjust things based on a more solid basis. The fact that changes are coming next month is rather quick for BW and it tells me they were probably already planning to do this before 6.0 even hit the live servers. So maybe they did listen, but don't have the same timetable as you.

 

I can get where your coming from about the difference between listening and getting what you want.

 

But almost everyone that tested the crafting on PTS echoed the same thing that crafting wasn't in a good spot for 6.0. And I understand it take time to code things but then that's the point of feedback on the PTS, to let the company know they might need to be prepared to execute rapid fixes to something that is a core part of the game .

 

Also if they were prepared to make things change due to listening to our feedback as you were pointing out ,then waiting almost 2 to implement said changes its too long to wait IMO it just hurts the game.

Edited November 13, 2019 by swiftrav

Sorry still to high, just change it to what it was before. 2 + 2 + 2 needed per component you can then drop the amount we get from missions to also be in line with what we were getting pre 6.0 per crew mission. , Also reduce the grade 11 components to 4 for war supplies, 8 components is to high. Plus spread it out amongst all 11 grades not just from 4 onwards for war supplies. Crafting is not meant to be a pain its meant to be useful and a nice addition to gearing not what it has become. The changes you mention, while yes it's better than how it is now.. is still a far cry to what it was.

I mean, it definitely is a step in the right direction.

 

Hard to say much more until i can test it.

 

 

 

You haven't been paying atention then. The materials you get from nodes in Onderon and Mek-sha are way more plentiful than what you get from missions, plus you got to pay for the missions.

 

Actually, regular mats aren't a problem for me at all. I just harvest the nodes as i'm doing my dailies. For me the problem is having to go to the material vendor in the fleet to buy the "grey" materials.

I wish we could have more material vendors in onderon and mek-sha, or on strongholds.

 

You can get the Deploy Field repair Droid Character Perk that you can get these from....right?

Yeah, judging from all the players shouting at each other over the sweeping difficulty changes,

crafting is where I'd start...

Hey all,

 

We have been reading your feedback since Onslaught launched (and of course from PTS beforehand) on your feelings on the current state of crafting. We agree with your feedback that it isn’t where we want it to be either. There are quite a few changes planned for 6.0.2 in December and we want to give you a preview of those changes today. As 6.0.2 will not have its own PTS, please use this thread to share your feedback on the changes.

 

• The materials required for “material combination” schematics was too high. We are making the following changes:
  
  • Premium and Prototype material requirements have been reduced to 6 each (down from 10).
    
  • Artifact material requirements have been reduced to 12 each (down from 15).
    
  • The requirements to convert Premium combination materials to Prototype has been reduced to 2 (down from 3).
    

  [*]Although we want to incentivize harvesting over missions for gathering skills, mission inflow was a little too low:

  • Increase overall inflow of Premium quality materials from Missions.
    
  • Increase material rewards from Wealthy Yield Missions.
    
  • Reduce the overall failure rate of “grey” quality Missions.
    

  [*]Getting crafting schematics when deconstructing gear was too hard with too low of a chance:

  • Broadly increased the chance to earn crafting schematics from deconstructing.
    
  • Sort of related, we are making a pass to ensure that deconstruction is giving the correct professions materials. Raise any specifics you have where this isn’t the case.
    

  [*]Too high of a requirement for Matrixes when crafting:

  • The Matrix material requirement has been removed from all schematics below Artifact quality.
    
  • We are looking closely at data around inflow of Legendary Ember requirements. We may increase requirements here but this is still being investigated.
    

  [*]The materials that you are earning are not coming in at the correct ratio of Premium : Prototype : Artifact to correlate with expenditure:

  • Rebalancing material inflow to match a 7:2:1 ratio that many of you have raised.
    

These are all currently planned changes for 6.0.2 so please let us know your thoughts. As always, we will continue to monitor crafting data and your feedback post-6.0.2 and make further changes as needed! Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

The only critique i have and i know i've seen a few others have an issue with was the training cost of the skills being a bit on the high side, is the 500k credit cost intentional or can it be brought down to possibly half?

Which begs the question why did YOU (Bioware) make it that way to begin with?

 

Do you really have so little understanding of one of the cornerstone elements of every MMORPG ever (Crafting) that you can only see what impact your changes make AFTER the changes go live?

 

Can't you look at a spread sheet and work out what is likely to happen if you reduce a drop-rate by 15%?

Can't you figure out that happens if you increase "materials needed" by 50%?

 

This is all just rather basic spread-sheet accounting.

 

Help me understand why these changes need to "go live" BEFORE you realise you broke it?

 

What variables do you a) not have control over or b) don't understand the impact of, that makes it so a system change as appalling as this has to go live for you guys to figure out you got it wrong?

 

All The Best

 

Maths is hard and so is reading pts feed back for 4 weeks before launch. Honestly, how hard is it to adjust some numbers in the “formula”.

Why did they even get people to test it for the 4 weeks if it was going to be ignored before it went live? It’s been 4 weeks since it went live and now they post the changes they intend to make, but still haven’t? So all up, they will have had feed back for 12+ weeks before these fixes come through.

And they are still asking for feed back even though they know they’ve locked these changes in already for 6.0.2 and our feed back won’t change them. It makes me want to pull my hair out.

Don’t put stuff on the pts or ask for feed back if you aren’t going to use it before it goes live. It’s a waste of our time and everyone else’s if you are only going to use the live data and ignore the feed back you ask for. If you aren’t going to genuinely use it right then, why ask for it?

I don’t mind testing on the pts to improve the game before it goes live. But I do mind wasting my time if you intend to put all the feed back on a back burner till it’s been live for a month.

 

You haven't been paying atention then. The materials you get from nodes in Onderon and Mek-sha are way more plentiful than what you get from missions, plus you got to pay for the missions.

 

Actually, regular mats aren't a problem for me at all. I just harvest the nodes as i'm doing my dailies. For me the problem is having to go to the material vendor in the fleet to buy the "grey" materials.

I wish we could have more material vendors in onderon and mek-sha, or on strongholds.

 

It’s not the amount you get from the nodes, it’s the lack of nodes spread through the maps. If there are more than two people farming nodes, there are no where near enough. So it becomes a complete waste of your time.

 

I’ll use slicing as an example (only). I know exactly where they will spawn and the respawn time. So Ive got my “farming” circuit down to a second. I can literally do a circuit to collect ALL the spawning nodes and no one else even gets a chance unless they stand there and wait for one node to spawn, at which point I just by pass them and they get one node and I get 12.

 

If they are really serious and want us to farm nodes for any resource, then they need to be spread across all the map as well as certain areas. There are literally whole areas of Onderron that have no resource nodes. And the areas for certain nodes are all clumped together like they were an after thought.

 

There needs to be even more nodes added + the ones we currently have and the new nodes would need to be spread through out the maps and into areas that are vast and currently have little to no nodes of any resource in the area. Let me use Yavin as an example. That is one of the best designed resource planets, most of the mats are spread out in large areas and there are plenty of them that you can’t do a circuit of the whole map by your self and hog all the mats before they respawn. Even the Zakual swamp is better than Onderron, and it’s bad because 2 people can literally lock down the whole map and hog all the resources.

 

If they want us to gather mats instead of using comps on missions, then they need to add way more nodes, spread them around the “whole map”, and they need to respwan faster than 4 people can do a circuit to collect them all.