On armor, absolutely. I'm really talking about weapons here. Specifically, is the static amount of expertise granted to PvP weapons enough to offset the ever increasing power of PvE weapons?

 

At what point will the latest and greated PVE tier weapon be better than Partisan in open world PvP? Are we close to there yet?

in open world. expertise is going to be king over anything pve. yes, technically, if they kept increasing the stats on pve weapons past the 72's, you would eventually reach a point where the stat increases make up for the difference -- but i think they'd probably have new tier of pvp gear by that point.

for now, in open world conq is better than the best pve gear.

I think conqueror is better in open world.

 

2018 expertise = 60% damage boost

1009 expertise = 30% damage boost

100.9 expertise = 3% damage boost

300 expertise = 9% damage boost

 

The difference in using 2 conqueror weapons in open world PvP is a 9% damage boost over any PvE weapon. A 2000 damage attack will gain 180 damage or the equivalent of 900 power. I don't think any PvE weapons will have a standard 900 higher power (or 180 more damage) than a conqueror weapon.

 

Using 2 conqueror weapons: With a 7000 damage crit, it adds 630 damage, or the equivalent of 3150 power per attack. PvE looking even worse in this crit scenario.

 

And this is not to mention the healing bonus or damage reduction from expertise.

What about just a single hilt/barrel? The penalty for mixing pvp/pve mods does not apply in open world, so I'd be curious if the 68 expertise makes up for the extra weapon damage and stats of the PvE hilt.

Advanced Might Hilt 33: 96 str 81 end

Advanced Rage Hilt 28X: 68 str 68 end 68 exp

174 Lightsaber weapon damage: 539-808

154 Lightsaber weapon damage: 423-635

What about just a single hilt/barrel?

So we are talking....full conqueror weapon but swap the barrel for a bigger PvE barrel.

**My reply is taking into consideration using a PvE barrel/hilt with a PvP Mod and Enhancement for the purpose of open world PvP** Please note that these are top-of-the-head numbers and I'm sure there are a few errors somewhere...but I did my best.

PvE barrel (in main hand) will add (rough guess) 75 additional damage over a PvP barrel when you consider the higher damage range, and the additional tech/force power. But like I said, this is a rough guess and could be anywhere from 60-100 additional damage.

I come to this conclusion by giving an extra +45 damage for the min-max damage range of the weapon, and an extra +30 bonus damage from the increased tech/force power. So when compared to a PvP weapon....a high end PvE weapon will do roughly 75 more damage per attack.

Now if we compare that to the same weapon with a PvP barrel instead....

We have determined that the PvE barrel adds 75 damage, and the PvP barrel adds 60 expertise. Now how much is that expertise worth?

So we are looking at an expertise bonus of roughly 1.7% bonus damage. On a 2000 damage attack, this adds 34 damage which is less than the 75 added via PvE barrel. On a 4500 damage attack, it adds about 75 damage which is equal to the PvE barrel. On a 7500 damage crit, the expertise adds 127 damage which is more than the PvE 75 damage.

So my conclusion (with a decent margin of error) is that the PvP barrel/hilt will slightly benefit the big hits/crits (because it adds a flat percent to the already big damage numbers). But the PvE barrel benefits non-crits slightly more (because it adds a decent static amount to the low damage attacks). In theory, a mixed weapon could be a little better (then full PvP or PvE) in open world pvp, but by a very small margin (and won't boost crits as much as the full PvP weapon).

This is crazy...

 

 

 

Sure lol!

 

 

Also: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6378208 "Relic placed in bottom slot not triggering"

Lol he wrote that to me...I think

Random comment to that link you posted about bottom relic not triggering.... I wanted to test for myself so I used my WZ dummy and was able to have 2 different relics proc back-to-back.

PvP Power Proc and PvP Damage Proc

The bug I found with them is that one of the relics only proc'd from Tech attacks, and one only proc'd from Ranged. I wouldn't be surprised if they are acting different due to being on my ship.

My test was:

1) Tracer: Power Proc triggers (keep repeating until it procs)

2) Rapid Shots: Damage Proc triggers right away (sometimes)

I was able to get back-to-back procs on my ship.

So my conclusion (with a decent margin of error) is that the PvP barrel/hilt will slightly benefit the big hits/crits (because it adds a flat percent to the already big damage numbers). But the PvE barrel benefits non-crits slightly more (because it adds a decent static amount to the low damage attacks). In theory, a mixed weapon could be a little better (then full PvP or PvE) in open world pvp, but by a very small margin (and won't boost crits as much as the full PvP weapon).

Thanks for that! Based on this and what the ID peeps (/waves) have said it looks like yeah, we're at least at tier from having to worry about it too much.

Appreciate the time you all put into answering the question.

I don't know why they won't just take anything that isn't with +expertise on it & just force it into 90% of the base stats for Partisan.

Have Underworld min/maxed gear? Congratulations! You have 90% of Partisan base stats.

Exploiting level 54 purple unmoddable Power stacking? Congratulations! You have 90% of Partisan base stats.

Completely naked? Congratulations! You get no stats (why would you be naked?).

The only thing that I'd be okay with them doing beyond this would be them applying PVE set bonuses to the 90% of Partisan bolstering. I can even be convinced that this can go away in pvp, too.

Completely naked? Congratulations! You get no stats (why would you be naked?).

Made me smile, thanks.

I don't know why they won't just take anything that isn't with +expertise on it & just force it into 90% of the base stats for Partisan.

 

Have Underworld min/maxed gear? Congratulations! You have 90% of Partisan base stats.

 

Exploiting level 54 purple unmoddable Power stacking? Congratulations! You have 90% of Partisan base stats.

 

Completely naked? Congratulations! You get no stats (why would you be naked?).

 

The only thing that I'd be okay with them doing beyond this would be them applying PVE set bonuses to the 90% of Partisan bolstering. I can even be convinced that this can go away in pvp, too.

Yeah. Even better - They could have a template piece for every slot that you are effectively given behind the scenes when PvPing IF you are not wearing PvP gear (with all +expertise mods) in that slot.

Avoid any fancy math completely. Less room for odd scenarios and exploits. Just update the templates whenever a new tier of PvP gear comes out. Job done.

I don't know why they won't just take anything that isn't with +expertise on it & just force it into 90% of the base stats for Partisan.

 

Have Underworld min/maxed gear? Congratulations! You have 90% of Partisan base stats.

 

Exploiting level 54 purple unmoddable Power stacking? Congratulations! You have 90% of Partisan base stats.

 

Completely naked? Congratulations! You get no stats (why would you be naked?).

 

The only thing that I'd be okay with them doing beyond this would be them applying PVE set bonuses to the 90% of Partisan bolstering. I can even be convinced that this can go away in pvp, too.

This is the exact idea I proposed in this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=635206

It's the best way to fix bolster. If someone joins a wz with a pve piece that has no expertise, they are awarded a default amount if stats relative to the partisan equivalent. For example with completely made up stats:

Pve crit mod of +52 end, +66 willpower, +50 crit gets replaced with +39 end, +59 wp, +38 expertise, +22 crit in warzones. They just program the bolster system to look at what stats are on the gear and award the 90% partisan equivalent.

Hey everyone,

 

I just wanted to let you know that I have passed this on the PvP/Combat folks. They are aware of the issue and are actively working on a solution. I will pass on more information as I have it!

 

-eric

Eric, It's been two weeks since you posted this. This is obviously a major concern for your PvP community. You mean to tell me in two weeks they can't give you a straight answer about this?

There is a huge issue now. PvP is broken and people are exploiting the PVE gear and making a mockery of the whole bolster and the reasons why it was done. You have no update in two weeks time? Nothing??

Really man?

Eric, It's been two weeks since you posted this. This is obviously a major concern for your PvP community. You mean to tell me in two weeks they can't give you a straight answer about this?

 

There is a huge issue now. PvP is broken and people are exploiting the PVE gear and making a mockery of the whole bolster and the reasons why it was done. You have no update in two weeks time? Nothing??

 

Really man?

3 months is not an acceptable time frame for fixing this exploit bioware.

While the devs have been sitting around, pvp has had a number of people stop playing until bolster is fixed.

3 months is not an acceptable time frame for fixing this exploit bioware.

While the devs have been sitting around, pvp has had a number of people stop playing until bolster is fixed.

The problem is lack of transparency, they acknowledge it but tell us absolutely nothing.

you ever feel like a mushroom? in the dark and fed, well you know.

3 months is not an acceptable time frame for fixing this exploit bioware.

While the devs have been sitting around, pvp has had a number of people stop playing until bolster is fixed.

Why bother even fixing bolster? They obviously can't. The whole system just needs to be scrapped. It has ruined pvp for 3 months and driven away a lot of players. It also doesn't help that the top pvp gear is 3-4 tiers behind pve gear, which automatically makes pve gear better stats wise, then factor in the insane amount of expertise already top tier pve gear gets and it's just a joke to pvp in pvp gear. The gear itself is completely unbalanced now, bolster just makes it worse.

10-54 bolster is fine as people are leveling, but 55 should have no bolster whatsoever, because things like this keep coming up making "competitive pvp" not competitive at all. The only real competition now is to see how much you can glitch/exploit/whatver your gear to get max stats/advantage over somebody else. This sytem has just made the gear gap even wider.

The only real competition now is to see how much you can glitch/exploit/whatver your gear to get max stats/advantage over somebody else. This sytem has just made the gear gap even wider.

This! +

I've been following this for a while now and figured I'd put in my two cents. I'm one of the players that, for the most part, doesn't come onto the forms because most of the time it seems like it's nothing but doom proclaimers and people complaining about things that seem small and/or stupid. This topic however has been something that's been on my mind since its release with naked PvP and has continued to cause strife.

Currently I have seen what you've all been pointing out and it really irks me when i am torn up by someone with pve gear that's not even top tier when I'm in almost full conquer gear with max exp just because they decide to spend thier pve earned credits to abuse an exploit. Most pvpers i know either don't have the credits to throw at sub par pve gear to abuse the system or want to be able to truthfully say they didn't do so when this all (hopefully) gets fixed.

The fact of the mater is that we shouldn't have to feel like we won't be able to preform at our best because we have the best pvp gear. If this was PvE and Partisan gear preformed better then top tier PvE and PvPers were easy moding TFB NiM the fourms would explode with the rage of the PvEers and F2Pers because their hard earned gepar now meant very little, out the F2Pers would have to buy the WZ unlocks to even try and get Partisan. This of course taking into account that there's some wired end game (bolster) handicap for PvE which in and of itself would cause an explosian of PvE rage.might

My issue with bolster doesn't start with the bugs though; it's actually with bolster itself. As a new 55, you don't get a boast to your stats or even a free, low tier PvE set. You either have what you've earned through out you're play time or the lvl 54 stuff you bought from crafters. PvP should be the same way. You should have the option to buy either low tier pvp gear or armoring, mods, ect, with the comms you've earned from pvping while lvling, or buy some low tier pvp gear from crafters (what?! Armor crafters like synthweave and such might gain a use?!). This way new 55s aren't super out geared when they start unless they choose to be, there's no weird handicap at 55 that can be exploited, and earning gear actually means something now.

We don't need bolster Eric; we don't even want it. The best fix would be to follow the K.I.S.S. method, scrap bolster at 55, and just use the gear progression style pve uses that i just laid out. Crafters get something, new 55s have a way to start pvping, and even the devs get to stop wasting time trying to fix a bolster system that didn't need to get thus complicated inthe first place.

It's like choosing to eat soup using a fork tapped to chop sticks glued to a spoon that has a sponge attatched to it that soaks up the soup. Keep It Simple Stupid and just use the spoon.