It would appear that Keith is just throwing us whatever rotten old bone his EAcorporate paymasters tell him to throw at us. Question is how long will enough of us remain faithful lapdogs for that to work?

 

To be fair I have enjoyed the last week or so of playing SWTOR, especially while the holiday event CXP boost was running; but now it is over grinding Command Levels is starting to feel old real quick.

 

This game needs two things very, VERY urgently.

1) Less grind.

2) New content - preferably with some significant degree of replayability.

 

All The Best

You forgot one

3) Fix failed server merges

But Keith said we'd understand it all soon......the nerfs that is.....he said soon we would understand why they made them all nerf...yet we still have no idea why, and it cost us an entire year to nerf 8 classes...

Don't even get me started on the nerfs. I believe that particular downward spiral started with the original class nerfs from 5.0.

But Keith said we'd understand it all soon......the nerfs that is.....he said soon we would understand why they made them all nerf...yet we still have no idea why, and it cost us an entire year to nerf 8 classes...

I'm wondering about that, it does seem that the promise of more transparent communication was a platitude and what was meant was more cliches and delays to see how long the players can be strung along.

Never mind the fact that there's newer MMO's & other large multiplayer games out that everyone else is playing & don't require a subscription, lets all dump £8.99 a month on a 6-7 year old MMO that flopped and lost most of the player base within the first year (which has already been through 'two' lots of server merges)...

 

The masses are ought to come back aren't they? Especially after the adding of even more restrictions & paywalls than there were since 2 years ago. It's really encouraging to those coming back having to pay the sub fee before they can even fart around with heroics or flashpoints at endgame without it being a pointless exercise.

Exactly. People who pull that BS saying "yes, we should get everything for free" have no f'ing idea what they are talking about. Secret World Legends, Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 2, Blade and Soul, Black Desert Online, Neverwinter, etc. all have either a B2P or a F2P framework and most are going strong so it hasn't hurt their bottom line. EA is a greedy company and this game is in maintenance mode whether people want to believe it or not. They need people to spend money in the store if they want to survive. People aren't going to spend money on a sub and in the store unless it's those few whales out there who buy out things to sell them for extravagant in game credits. I never even shop on the market anymore. The prices used to be so much better, now they are ridiculous. Yes people, the game is in maintenance mode and EA doesn't give a damn about it and honestly, I don't think BW does either.

There are three groups of players that need to be looked at in order for the game to stop losing players faster than it gains them. And no, I'm not talking soloers, raiders and pvpers. I'm talking about retaining new players, free to play players and draw back players who quit.

1. All MMOs have churn. New players have to enjoy the game if they are going to stick with it long enough to join guilds and try endgame. I believe many of the changes that were made in 4.0 had a negative impact on the new player experience.

-As a regular reader of Reddit, I see new players posting about how shockingly easy and boring combat is, rather than how much they enjoy the story. It is probably too difficult for the remaining programmers, but there needs to be an option to have challenging fights in leveling content. Level sync should be refined and instanced areas should get selectable difficulties.

-Players are not finding the toggle to see the hidden side-quests. Even players who know those quests exist aren't finding the toggle on their own. Either have it turned on by default, or have a pop-up.

-Restore the stories in heroics. There should be an option to pick up heroics from their quest givers and to turn them back in to those quest givers for the full story, and leave the quick travel mode for those that are just grinding.

-Don't unlock flashpoints until characters are at the level they were designed for. Having everything available at lvl 15 didn't work well. The stories will be more in context and new players won't get crushed by not having the abilities they need to succeed. And older players will be happier not having to carry noobs.

-Give character creation a pass. This is the first thing new players see and it's quite lacking compared to other MMOs. We need a lot more color options for all species skin, eyes & hair. Some species are sorely lacking in face choices. Separate things like eyebrows from complexions so players can fine tune their characters more. And for the love of God fix black hair on CM hairstyles!

2. Free to play. If this version of f2p isn't converting f2p to subs or getting them into group content, it is a failure and needs to be reworked.

-The credit to cc ratio has changed drastically. It is no longer lucrative for subscribers to purchase unlocks to sell on the GTN. Either the unlock prices need to drop, or the f2p credit cap needs to be increased. Some of those unlocks should just be done away with entirely. If people aren't buying the unlocks then there is no point in having them restricted.

-Bring back weekly passes. If weekly passes are too expensive in the new economy, them bring them back as daily passes. Let them get GCX while they have a pass active.

3. Lure back players who left. The only way I see this happening is with a full expansion. A trickle of content won't bring back more than a handful of people and it won't keep them for any length of time. And stop with making up new planets! The existing Star Wars universe is huge and diverse. Make use of it!

One thing that would help immensely: tell players what's going on for the future.

IMHO the late November/early December updates were awesome, and they clearly spent a lot of time designing the world of Copero. However, we're in the position right now of not even knowing when the next bit of story is going to be released, AFAIK, much less any information about future expacs. So the question becomes:

Are we continuing to pay subscriptions for a game that is not going to provide us with very much content? What do we look forward to in 2018 that justifies continuing to subscribe?

If they made an announcement that 6.0 was on the way within the next half year, announced a timetable for new content releases, etc., IMHO people would come back.

Communication and details about upcoming content has never been BW's strong point. Especially after the EA overlords took over "Communications" and directed them (i.e. Filtered) on what to say.

If they had a better long term roadmap (not that quarterly crap they post usually a month into each quarter) then it might have a chance. I use the WOW example of Legion a YEAR before it happened had more information (a YEAR) than we get on major patches 2-3 weeks in advance for SWTOR.

The game needs to get back to the roots that made it great - Voice Acted Story content (Not 4.x, 5.x CRAP - each class with separate stories).

Bioware can turn things around by giving what people love about star wars: a good story.

I've liked "Knights os the Eternal Throne" and "KOTFE", they were a wind of change in that endless Sith vs Jedi conflict.

But now the expansion is over.

Yes, there are new flashpoints and uprises, and I like them too, but people love to be a part of a good Star Wars story.

The leveling in this game is amazing because there's a good story class, for each class (8 total completely diferente stories, with twists, humor, drama, and so on).

The grind is not gonna make people play the game: it takes a lot of time, and a lot of Star Wars fans don't have the luxury of spending 8 hours a day to do mindless grinding for CXP and Credits. People have Jobs, families, bills to pay, etc.

Everytime a game introduces massive grinding, like Battlefront 2 (* coughs *), it scares away the players who love the universe but simply can't put the time to "be good", a.k.a. "have better gear".

I imagine that an expansion takes time to make, but is it really so difficult to release micro stories like the one about the traitor, without making the players wait for so long?

I can only speak for myself, but when I run out of story content, I don't keep playing the same missions over and over and over to grind gear and money.

I simply stop playing the game until the next story arrives.

One thing that would help immensely: tell players what's going on for the future.

This couldnt be further from the truth. Have you seen these forums? BW has, in the past, given word of upcoming changes, and 99% of the time they get blasted for it. Anywhere from small populations of players saying the changes arent needed to other small populations of players quoting doom and gloom stories before the content even drops.

There is absolutely no incentive for BW to tell the public what the changes are until right before they make the changes. Furthermore, it benefits them further by holding off on public transparency because more people will retain their subs until word is dropped than the number of people who will join up prior to the changes.

The more I read these forums, the more it boggles my mind. People with no business sense/experience telling professional business-people how to run a business. And the general reasoning for their opinion is a very generalized "the game is dying, and is in maintenance mode." No supportive data regarding what the masses actually believe. I would estimate about 5% of suggestions on these forums actually make sense, and/or come from people with business backgrounds, and/or have the forethought to understand the true ramifocations of their suggestions.

In addition, most people here also dont give bioware ample opportunity to test changes, make changes, or evaluate changes they have made before they create a monday-morning quarterback hot take that has substance and valid data.

There is absolutely no incentive for BW to tell the public what the changes are until right before they make the changes. Furthermore, it benefits them further by holding off on public transparency because more people will retain their subs until word is dropped than the number of people who will join up prior to the changes.

There is a difference of kind (i.e., not degree) between specifying changes and providing an overall roadmap. I agree with you that announcing specific changes is a bad idea, though not for the reasons you identify. More on that in a moment.

But, it is one thing to say -- the next expansion is September and it is called "Clash of the Jawas vs. Ortolans" vs. saying "we plan to release 6.0 in Autumn 2018 -- we are excited and per our earlier announcements it will feature a variety of grouping and solo activities that will include flashpoints and operations and conflict between the Sith and Jedi will be central" (the latter point they have, in fact, already stated).

The primary reason to delay announcing specifics of 6.0 is marketing -- they don't want to step on the toes of the final part of the War on Iokath. But that is categorically different than providing an overall roadmap not only in terms of direction but in terms of timing.

This matters because, contrary to what you say, I have had a hard time recruiting friends who read the negativity on this forum and think the lights go out this summer. If they knew a 6.0 was indeed coming -- however vague, they would be more inclined to subscribe -- even if it is just a teaser trailer or cryptic foreshadowing.

Dasty

There is a difference of kind (i.e., not degree) between specifying changes and providing an overall roadmap. I agree with you that announcing specific changes is a bad idea, though not for the reasons you identify. More on that in a moment.

 

But, it is one thing to say -- the next expansion is September and it is called "Clash of the Jawas vs. Ortolans" vs. saying "we plan to release 6.0 in Autumn 2018 -- we are excited and per our earlier announcements it will feature a variety of grouping and solo activities that will include flashpoints and operations and conflict between the Sith and Jedi will be central" (the latter point they have, in fact, already stated).

 

The primary reason to delay announcing specifics of 6.0 is marketing -- they don't want to step on the toes of the final part of the War on Iokath. But that is categorically different than providing an overall roadmap not only in terms of direction but in terms of timing.

 

This matters because, contrary to what you say, I have had a hard time recruiting friends who read the negativity on this forum and think the lights go out this summer. If they knew a 6.0 was indeed coming -- however vague, they would be more inclined to subscribe -- even if it is just a teaser trailer or cryptic foreshadowing.

 

Dasty

To an extent. I agree that the timing of an announcement has to give the previously released content a chance to manifest itself to at a certain % of the population (some of which take 2 years to complete based on their individual playtime, some of which complete it in 4 hours.)

However, no matter how detailed or undetailed the announcement, the feedback will largely consist of overexaggerated expectatuons or dismay.

"Clash of the Jawas vs. Ortolans" - *** bw, you havent told us what is included in the new expansion. Might as well have told us nothing at all.

"we plan to release 6.0 in Autumn 2018 -- we are excited and per our earlier announcements it will feature a variety of grouping and solo activities that will include flashpoints and operations and conflict between the Sith and Jedi will be central" - it better consist of 3 ops, and 6 flashpoints like xxx expansion, and better have decos and strongholds and lets list every possible content matter that MUST be included in order for it not to be a failure. Oh, and the content itself must live up to thousands of individual standards and perceptions of what is worthwhile content.

Less is better at this point because every move BW makes is littered with unmerited scrutiny and "unfufilled promises." The negativity will be there regardless of the intended future map, but when you release and make promises for a brighter future, you open yourself up for even more scrutiny and exaggerated expectations from a population that is largely unforgiving and very unreasonable.

I could put some stuff...like Tweaking game difficulty...more story yada yada..

But honestly , dont think they care and if they do then its like they cant . Pretty much , its a slot machine that is broken...ya cant fix it .

And for BW to tell players and communication ? I think they proven they really arent good at it .

They can make a roadmap then go 'We want to give you the best! so we cant release X just yet..so sorry!''

'we hit a block ! we are INVESTIGATING , we will tell you more (like never) when we know more''

''we are working on stuff ! definitly more stuff are coming but we cant talk about the Stuff ! so stay tuned for the Stuff ! the stuff gonna be great !!''

yeah right .

I understand that folks have complaints, and I certainly do not want to attempt to restrict discourse. So I can only ask....and that is all this is, a request....ask that folks attempt to stick to actual ideas instead of complaints.

What I mean is, IF this was the optimal situation, where the ability to turn things actually existed for one reason or another, what type of things could Bioware do to actually make that happen.

I do appreciate all of the replies.

The negativity will be there regardless of the intended future map

Those words are operative. I treat the negativity as a constant, not a variable. As it is, you and I can both rattle off about 10 names of posters here who are so aggressively negative that when we see their names there is little to no point in reading what they wrote -- we already know. The word nuance completely escapes them. I have no doubt some would level that criticism in the opposite direction against the two of us.

What some are questioning, though, is not whether the future is brighter, but whether or not there is a future. But to the extent the Davy and Debbie Downers are going to complain -- no matter what -- I think it behooves Keith and Co. to extend the horizon a bit in revealing what they have planned, even if those exact plans are vague and subject to change.

At risk of getting all annoying and Biz Schoolish on people -- I consider what is going to happen in next the 2 to 3 months an Action Plan. I consider what they have planned over the course of the next year a Roadmap. What I can tell you is that it would help me help them if a Roadmap was presented, however vague, because it would help me recruit friends. And, frankly,I couldn't give a rat's behind what people think about EA's corporate culture -- they are going to post their inanity regardless.

Regards,

Dasty

Those words are operative. I treat the negativity as a constant, not a variable. As it is, you and I can both rattle off about 10 names of posters here who are so aggressively negative that when we see their names there is little to no point in reading what they wrote -- we already know. The word nuance completely escapes them. I have no doubt some would level that criticism in the opposite direction against the two of us.

 

What some are questioning, though, is not whether the future is brighter, but whether or not there is a future. But to the extent the Davy and Debbie Downers are going to complain -- no matter what -- I think it behooves Keith and Co. to extend the horizon a bit in revealing what they have planned, even if those exact plans are vague and subject to change.

 

At risk of getting all annoying and Biz Schoolish on people -- I consider what is going to happen in next the 2 to 3 months an Action Plan. I consider what they have planned over the course of the next year a Roadmap. What I can tell you is that it would help me help them if a Roadmap was presented, however vague, because it would help me recruit friends. And, frankly,I couldn't give a rat's behind what people think about EA's corporate culture -- they are going to post their inanity regardless.

 

Regards,

 

Dasty

Fair enough.

As for the future of the game, I, personally, feel the game is alive and working until it isnt, at all. I have played most of my time during off hours (non-peak), and still continue to do so at times. Having seen the game function just fine during non-peak hours recently leads me to believe that the doom and gloom is overblown. I can log in during off hours and still get flashpoint/pvp pops with reasonable regularity. Are there slow times? Sure, but not all the time, as people state. Is it as optimal as I would like it to be? No, but thats unrealistic, and always has been even before it launched, given MMORPG trends in the past.

As for roadmaps and action plans, they would make no difference to me because I will evaluate the content that actually makes it to the game. No sense in building hopes for content or additions that are stated with positive intentions, but fall through production. Anyone who knows anything about production and development understands ideas arent always able to be fully implemented as hoped. Video games are no different. My momma always told me to "dont count your chickens before they hatch," and I guess it stuck with me. I can certainly understand your personal investment to having roadmaps or action plans related to recruiting friends, but it leaves not only bioware, but you too, exposed when things dont pan out.

As a player who has left and come back several times (and is strongly considering leaving again), here's the things that have made me quit and come back:

Story content stagnation/droughts: The flow of new story content has been very feast/famine since I started a few months before RotHC. Right now feels like famine. KotET felt too short, the ending too abrupt. Iokath is terrible in its design and the story there feels largely unfinished. Then we get two horrible flashpoints trying to tell a story that would be so much better if told on the actual planets, like back in the old days. KotFE was great when it was first introduced, but I'm well past ready to be done with the entire story arc (which still feels unfinished, to me). And can we please get the rest of our old companions back soon? I mean ALL of them except the ones that have been killed off already (good riddance, Skadge!). If this new method of telling the story through flashpoints is how things are going to be done going forward, I'm not going to stick around.

Ops: SWTOR is one of the few MMO's where I enjoy doing Ops (raids). Boss fights are well designed. In the vast majority of cases they aren't overly complex or difficult, but still reasonably challenging on Veteran/Master. Unfortunately we haven't gotten a full-length new op in quite a long time. Now we're getting bosses for a new op at a pace of about one every 6 months? On top of this I can't help but feel like there's very few (if any) guilds running ops on a regular basis these days. I suspect this is due to fewer players around in general.

Loot system: Up until KotFE, I felt that SWTOR had one of the best loot systems of all the major MMO's around (at the time). I really can't say that any more. Sure the conversion to Mastery and Adaptive armor made getting geared much easier, but it sucked a lot of flavor out of the system. Then, to make things worse, the CXP crates were added, and Ops boss loot tables were randomized. Thankfully it's slowly getting put right, but the CXP grind should never have been added in the first place (imho).

So what would get me to stick around? Here's a quick list:

1. New set of chapters released (preferably all at once) wrapping up the entire Eternal Empire/Alliance storyline and reuniting us with ALL of our lost companions.

2. The remaining bosses in the new Ops released all at once. Vet and Master mode don't have to be included right away, but soon (within a few months at most) thereafter.

3. Removal of the CXP grind. Raise the level cap to 80. Raise the Legacy cap to 100.

4. Addition of new playable races/classes to the game.

Sorry about the wall-of-text, but it felt necessary.

Go with the League of Legend model. Open up all area's of the game to F2P, but limit rewards like credits received, valor gained, lightside points earned. Make all area's of the game accessible to F2P but keep them wanting more by creating time benefits to being a sub. As it is now, F2P is driven away from the game. Those people you drive away missed out on new friendships, learning new ways to have fun in game, and will never become subs. Let people have fun, more will sub and less will leave.

Also clean up the game... your classes have too many buttons that do basically the same things. More buttons is not more depth, but a 4 button rotation can be fun if you give the player interesting situational buttons. (I'm not saying reduce it to four, but just as an example)

Last, selfishly for myself and a few others, give us an option to turn off screenshake in the game. I love this game, but some classes and story chapters make me feel like I'm going to puke.

Cross-server queue system.

That one change could make a massively positive impact on this game and avoid a lot of problems down the road, many of which we've already seen and will likely see again.

I wondered why they decided to merge the servers yet again instead of doing some kind of cross server deal...perhaps it is a financial decision, perhaps they lacked the expertise to enable cross server play.

It is a shame, because cross server, IMO, would be a big boost to the game.

I'm not sure that the roadmap would have that much of an effect on pulling back in players, perhaps it might help retain current players (which is not a bad thing naturally)

Oh, I agree it would only help on the margins. Ultimately, to me it's not very complicated -- if 6.0 is decent -- people will stay, and some will come back to at least go through the storyline and evaluate end-game at that point. If it's really, really good -- word of mouth will spread and may even attract new players.

If the content is there, they stay. If not, they either quit or rotate out until the next tranche of content is released (and in the case of this forum, they will do so in Tolstoy-esque fashion with multiple posts announcing the date about them quitting forever).

I don't think tweaking F2P vs. Subscriber incentives will matter in the grand scheme of things in comparison to quality content. But nothing wrong with teasing the player base to get them talking about the new release. (On this point, Olag and I just flat out disagree).

Dasty

At risk of getting all annoying and Biz Schoolish on people -- I consider what is going to happen in next the 2 to 3 months an Action Plan. I consider what they have planned over the course of the next year a Roadmap.

I agree with Jdast on this.. very much so.

It has been a complaint of mine since Keith took over that the roadmaps they release are not actually roadmaps... because of their short time frame of context and very tactical nature of the information. So yeah.... what they call a roadmap is actually a short term action plan (as in one quarter, give or take).

People who actually are in the business of producing and maintaining roadmaps in corporations cover a one to two year period typically, with quarterly review and update as required. In fact.. they often produce two forms.... an "operational roadmap" and a "strategic roadmap". The main difference being that strategic roadmaps are meant to be a multi-year high level statement of direction and focus, with operational roadmaps being more on the order of one year in duration and represent more detail as this represents actual implementation that is approved, rather then long term strategy.

Not that I think roadmaps actually serve much of a constructive purpose with the ever complaining special interest groups that plow the forum.... so maybe what Keith has been publishing is all this audience can really embrace and absorb (despite claims by some of wanting to see the longer term future for the game).

At the end of the day though... maybe it simply does not matter really. When they release information, they get raked and railed for it and whatever they release gets interpreted/distorted by special interest groups. When they do not release any information, they get raked and railed for it and the special interests simply continue to interpret/distort with pure fiction. In other words.. the outcome with the forum, the broader player base, in game chat, etc.... is pretty much the same whether they provide information or don't.

And, to actually address the topic of this thread.... I doubt there is anything the studio (or any MMO studio actually) can do to "retain players" and "attract old players back". Why? Because players of MMOs these days are much more nomadic and with the selection of MMOs available today... they are more like roaming grazers then persistent players. Which is one reason why the flexible access models common for most MMOs these days works so well. Personally, I see no issue with as I think it is actually healthy for MMO players to change up which MMO they play from time to time as all MMOs end up stale when over played. We have guild members rolling in and out of subscription all the time....... but we do have continuity with them as the guild maintains an organized presence across multiple MMOs... so it's not like we lose track of them, and most of them return after a few months.. so the net effect on our guild over time has been negligible in SWTOR (and the other MMOs we are present in).

Well - Since I had like a day left - I just provided all these details in un-sub feedback so I hope it helps.

Readers Digest Version:

1. Communications - lacking, vague and misleading sometimes
   
2. Content - Nice new boss, but not enough to get people playing longer
   
3. More Subs - rewards program needs a refresh and boost
   
4. Account Wide Unlocks (Rare Mounts/Pets) - Money opportunity for obtained mounts only
   
5. Double CXP - Still bad we have this system (Notice Players gone day after events)
   
6. In game moderators - Toxic Chat's when people are bored
   
7. Roadmap - Ties back to communications or lack of them
   
8. Conquest - Yeah...
   

Best of luck my friends! I hope to return when things look better, but my New Years resolution was NOT paying another month SUB if it appears we have no future for this game beyond maintenance mode.