Personally speaking, I have no problem with how I appear to other people, opinions vary. If you know I'm being carried by your skill and do not like it, feel free to leave at any point. You can do what you like as well, isn't free will a kicker Why should your over enthusiastic play style trump mine? Also feel free to verbally berate me in chat. I welcome all criticisms.

Its obvious you dont care how you look to other people.

feel free to leave at any point

So now I have to leave because your playing like a douchbag? What are you saving those 300k credits for? Repair bills because you go into endgame PVE content with the same mindset about gear that gets your squad wiped? You can hide behind your arrogant "I can do what I want" comments all you want, but like it or not you are basically griefing your teamates by not doing what you can to help them win.

Would I report you for not buying Recruit gear as was suggested in an earlier post? No. Would I verbally berate you for it? After about the 4th or 5th WZ in a row where we are getting rolled and your running around with 0 expertise, im damn sure going to say something in a constructive manner. Its when you respond like a child that you can do what you want that youll get the attention your craving from me.

Your difference in expertise is too low, and DR is higher for other secondary stats, so your testing is compromized on this at first. You have provided zero tests outside of WZs, you have posted 2 results that were equal, where expertise was showing a higher trade off at a higher % than a lower. This was also with a lower value range in your ability tooltip. Still you claim expertise being inferior, when it already gives a higher trade off at minimal expertise, even with a lower tooltip value ont he ability.

 

It only gains more and more the more expertise you get compared to secondary stats that are early on effected by DR at a higher degree. Still you claim them better than expertise. You claim a full rakata set is as good for pvp as a full BM set. You have absolutely no clue how expertise works in reality, you think you do from a paper point of view.

 

The difference between a full rakata and a full BM sets are huge when it comes to PvP.

 

Compare the stats on the full sets, see the minor difference in stats and the huge difference in pure buffs to damage, mitigation and healing in pvp.

 

edit: I've also already told you I've done the proper tests at 50 with my sorc i.e same as sage, flagged on fleet, unflagged and out of combat in WZs, but you never bothered to check that did you? Results were the exact same on all tries. That was done to prove that expertise does not kick in outside of active combat i.e the trauma buff getting applied.

I did!!!!! You didn't notice the deliverance values AND all stats in WZs were the same as they were on the ones when I was at the fleet? Plus, I used YOUR criteria to when "EXP kicks in" on all of them. Plus, you still haven't shown ANYTHING. Show me your "proper tests" dude. I told you I have a TON more screens where the fell in the accepted range.

I was waiting for you to respond, because I knew it would happen, I could just shut up...... Naw wait. Since you got a sorc and you don't have ANY Rakata pieces:rolleyes:, I'll be the one who drops down a few levels to make it easier on you. Here let's do this.

PUT YOUR "MONEY" WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS

YOU: BUY 100% RECRUIT GEAR FOR 350K AND TAKE A SCREEN OF "DEATH FIELD" AS STATED ON THE TOOLTIP WHILE YOU ARE AT FLEET. THEN APPLY 100% YOUR EXP DAMAGE BONUS TO THE MAX TT VALUE.

ME: ZERO-OUT EXP ENTIRELY, TAKE A SCREEN OF MY "FORCE in BALANCE" AS STATED BY THE TOOLTIP.

DON'T USE ANY RELICS/STIMS/ADR/PLAYER BUFFS- This will be shown above your HP anyway, but just to put it out there.

DON'T CHEAT- ALL of my screens shows my stats pulled up, buffs applied, and my tooltip value (even while IN-COMBAT in WZs (the values and tooptip reading was up)).

If your calc'd value, exceeds mine, I will pay your dues next month.. Just send me your email and I will send it via PP.

If I exceed it, NOTHING. The joy of you spending 350K in credits is enough for me...

I did!!!!! You didn't notice the deliverance values AND all stats in WZs were the same as they were on the ones when I was at the fleet? Plus, I used YOUR criteria to when "EXP kicks in" on all of them. Plus, you still haven't shown ANYTHING. Show me your "proper tests" dude. I told you I have a TON more screens where the fell in the accepted range.

I was waiting for you to respond, because I knew it would happen, I could just shut up...... Naw wait. Since you got a sorc and you don't have ANY Rakata pieces:rolleyes:, I'll be the one who drops down a few levels to make it easier on you. Here let's do this.

 

PUT YOUR "MONEY" WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS

 

YOU: BUY 100% RECRUIT GEAR FOR 350K AND TAKE A SCREEN OF "DEATH FIELD" AS STATED ON THE TOOLTIP WHILE YOU ARE AT FLEET. THEN APPLY 100% YOUR EXP DAMAGE BONUS TO THE MAX TT VALUE.

 

ME: ZERO-OUT EXP ENTIRELY, TAKE A SCREEN OF MY "FORCE in BALANCE" AS STATED BY THE TOOLTIP.

 

DON'T USE ANY RELICS/STIMS/ADR/PLAYER BUFFS- This will be shown above your HP anyway, but just to put it out there.

 

DON'T CHEAT- ALL of my screens shows my stats pulled up, buffs applied, and my tooltip value (even while IN-COMBAT in WZs (the values and tooptip reading was up)).

 

 

If your calc'd value, exceeds mine, I will pay your dues next month.. Just send me your email and I will send it via PP.

If I exceed it, NOTHING. The joy of you spending 350K in credits is enough for me...

Doesnt work that way and please go easy on the caps button, no need to break it.

You cant test things like you claim, the only way to properly test things is to have a full set of gear at a certain rating, one of each type. Like 2 sets of 128 rating or something. On has expertise the other doesnt. You cant test it any other way. The only thing you can properly test is if expertise has any impact outside of combat, which it doesnt.

I did 25 "casts" during each condition, they all came back the same. Because expertise doesnt trigger out of combat. You need to test on fleet, flagged and unflagged, aswell as out of combat and in combat in WZs and make the proper calculations if you dont take my word for it.

Your tests are halfassed and prove squat. You should use a combat log parcer if you want anything closely to scientific in your testing. But as I said, pull out a good comparison between rakata and BM pure stats (main and secondary. Post it here and I can discuss it with you why expertise is better.

I'm going to be nice to you and log on ym sorc and check deathfield in his current gear, old champion gear with a BM weapon and BM bracer/belt and let you know it, with stats and all, wont take any screeny but will tell you the current buffs here in a post.

edit: My sorc stats in champion gear with bm weapon+belt+bracers. Buffs, sorc buff, agent buff, BH buff, rakata willp. stim.

willp. 1576

endurance 1335

b-dmg 692

exp 804 (16.89%, 14.30%, 9.14%)

crit 30%

surge 76.36 342 rating

deathfield dmg 1583-1628 (1850-1903 with exp)

Creeping terror 1856/18s (2169/18s with exp)

Froce lighting 2858/3s (3341/3s with exp)

Doesnt work that way and please go easy on the caps button, no need to break it.

 

You cant test things like you claim, the only way to properly test things is to have a full set of gear at a certain rating, one of each type. Like 2 sets of 128 rating or something. On has expertise the other doesnt. You cant test it any other way. The only thing you can properly test is if expertise has any impact outside of combat, which it doesnt.

 

I did 25 "casts" during each condition, they all came back the same. Because expertise doesnt trigger out of combat. You need to test on fleet, flagged and unflagged, aswell as out of combat and in combat in WZs and make the proper calculations if you dont take my word for it.

 

Your tests are halfassed and prove squat. You should use a combat log parcer if you want anything closely to scientific in your testing. But as I said, pull out a good comparison between rakata and BM pure stats (main and secondary. Post it here and I can discuss it with you why expertise is better.

 

I'm going to be nice to you and log on ym sorc and check deathfield in his current gear, old champion gear with a BM weapon and BM bracer/belt and let you know it, with stats and all, wont take any screeny but will tell you the current buffs here in a post.

So your answer is "no" to the challenge? Do you need me to send you credits for the recruit gear since they so easy to come by? LOL "Won't take a screeny?"

HOT GARBAGE, I say, HOT GARBAGE!!!

Just admit I'm right (tier for tier it don't matter), so recruit gear is just dumb in MOST cases.

So your answer is "no" to the challenge? Do you need me to send you credits for the recruit gear since they so easy to come by? LOL "Won't take a screeny?"

 

HOT GARBAGE, I say, HOT GARBAGE!!!

 

Just admit I'm right (tier for tier it don't matter), so recruit gear is just dumb in MOST cases.

Since you are so fast to post and use caps here I repost this.

My sorc stats in champion gear with bm weapon+belt+bracers. Buffs, sorc buff, agent buff, BH buff, rakata willp. stim.

willp. 1576

endurance 1335

b-dmg 692

exp 804 (16.89%, 14.30%, 9.14%)

crit 30%

surge 76.36 342 rating

deathfield dmg 1583-1628 (1850-1903 with exp)

Creeping terror 1856/18s (2169/18s with exp)

Froce lighting 2858/3s (3341/3s with exp)

Why should I buy recruit gear when I already have the champ gear, wase of credits.

Now do me a favor and post something similar to that without expertise. To be fair, take a culumni set with rak belt, bracers and weapon, that would be the best comparison.

Its obvious you dont care how you look to other people.

So now I have to leave because your playing like a douchbag?

You don't have to do anything. Feel free to stay and play. I also should reiterate here that I do attempt to play my best, but I'm not going to stress out or grind something which I find boring and lacking in fun just to squeeze out an extra bonus for a team I do not know.

What are you saving those 300k credits for?

Beer mostly, I love me some presence bonus.

You can hide behind your arrogant "I can do what I want" comments all you want, but like it or not you are basically griefing your teamates by not doing what you can to help them win.

I would want you to be able to prove to BW that I'm griefing by not purchasing recruit gear or better. Griefing is the purposeful attempt to ruin another's gaming experience through irritation and harassment. If I were truly running around the map with nothing on yelling obscenities to everyone, then yes, I would be griefing you (extreme example). If I'm making every effort to play to the best of my mediocre abilities, then no I'm not griefing. Intent needs to be proven and I would find it difficult to believe BW would punish someone for not having recruit or better gear to queue solo.

Would I report you for not buying Recruit gear as was suggested in an earlier post? No. Would I verbally berate you for it? After about the 4th or 5th WZ in a row where we are getting rolled and your running around with 0 expertise, im damn sure going to say something in a constructive manner. Its when you respond like a child that you can do what you want that youll get the attention your craving from me.

I'm not craving any attention, but you seem to be willing to give it to me regardless so the conversation continues. I can still do what I want in this game and so can you. I see no conflict of interests here. You play how you see fit and I will play how I see fit. If I decide that it is worth my time to purchase the recruit gear over BM then I will do it (although I have yet to reach that conclusion). If I decide to grind out for BM, I feel no sympathies for you in doing so. It is my decision to make and at the moment I believe it is a diminished returns value.

Since you are so fast to post and use caps here I repost this.

 

My sorc stats in champion gear with bm weapon+belt+bracers. Buffs, sorc buff, agent buff, BH buff, rakata willp. stim.

 

willp. 1576

endurance 1335

b-dmg 692

exp 804 (16.89%, 14.30%, 9.14%)

crit 30%

surge 76.36 342 rating

deathfield dmg 1583-1628 (1850-1903 with exp)

Creeping terror 1856/18s (2169/18s with exp)

Froce lighting 2858/3s (3341/3s with exp)

 

Why should I buy recruit gear when I already have the champ gear, wase of credits.

 

Now do me a favor and post something similar to that without expertise. To be fair, take a culumni set with rak belt, bracers and weapon, that would be the best comparison.

Credits are easy to come by remember... Do you have 350K? I do. Ok, so well just take your word for it.... Fine. I'll post and EVEN show the screen to back it up.

Credits are easy to come by remember... Do you have 350K? I do. Ok, so well just take your word for it.... Fine. I'll post and EVEN show the screen to back it up.

Back what up. Would be simple for you to allow for the easy comparison between the stats of the champ set I used and the cul set I suggestsed, but oh nevermind.

More screenshots to desipher...

You don't have to do anything. Feel free to stay and play. I also should reiterate here that I do attempt to play my best, but I'm not going to stress out or grind something which I find boring and lacking in fun just to squeeze out an extra bonus for a team I do not know.

 

 

Beer mostly, I love me some presence bonus.

 

 

I would want you to be able to prove to BW that I'm griefing by not purchasing recruit gear or better. Griefing is the purposeful attempt to ruin another's gaming experience through irritation and harassment. If I were truly running around the map with nothing on yelling obscenities to everyone, then yes, I would be griefing you (extreme example). If I'm making every effort to play to the best of my mediocre abilities, then no I'm not griefing. Intent needs to be proven and I would find it difficult to believe BW would punish someone for not having recruit or better gear to queue solo.

 

 

I'm not craving any attention, but you seem to be willing to give it to me regardless so the conversation continues. I can still do what I want in this game and so can you. I see no conflict of interests here. You play how you see fit and I will play how I see fit. If I decide that it is worth my time to purchase the recruit gear over BM then I will do it (although I have yet to reach that conclusion). If I decide to grind out for BM, I feel no sympathies for you in doing so. It is my decision to make and at the moment I believe it is a diminished returns value.

Seriously people like this are the reason I only win 2 or 3 Warzones all day long. Self centered ******es who only care about themselves and never play to win. This is a MMO. If you wanna drag down your teams on purpose then **** and go play a FPS or something. Just quit already. MMOs dont need more bads and all of your posts scream "Im a bad, I dont care, and I am gonna drag all my teams down to my level of fail"

Back what up. Would be simple for you to allow for the easy comparison between the stats of the champ set I used and the cul set I suggestsed, but oh nevermind.

 

More screenshots to desipher...

On my toon...

WP= 5,000,000,000

END=5,000,000,000

CRIT= 100%

etc, etc.

Now do you see why it matters?

***sigh.....No, probably not. I'll do both just be patient.

[EDIT] I also don't know exactly what pieces you are wearing(MASTER/MYSTIC/STALKER), but I will just put my stuff on and we will have your tale of the tape....

Seriously people like this are the reason I only win 2 or 3 Warzones all day long. Self centered ******es who only care about themselves and never play to win.

I certainly try to play well, but again I admit to my own failings at PvP. Thank you for your input on my personality, I will take it under advisement.

This is a MMO. If you wanna drag down your teams on purpose then **** and go play a FPS or something. Just quit already.

Why would I ever quit? I'm having fun playing this game. Your discussion on my purposeful intent has already be covered so I will refrain from double posting.

MMOs dont need more bads and all of your posts scream "Im a bad, I dont care, and I am gonna drag all my teams down to my level of fail"

I would argue that MMO games need as many players as possible to be successful regardless of play style. Competitive and casual players should be welcome with open arms to a MMO as it is the subscription which essentially helps the game grow and prosper. I have fully admitted to my shortcomings in PvP. Winning is not the outcome for me; I'm there to enjoy the match and if I'm having fun it does not matter to me if I win or lose. One thing is for certain though, you will never find me calling someone else "bad" or judging them personally.

What I find interesting is I've had 3 people in the last few days get on my case for not buying recruit gear on my L50. I'm a casual PVPer.

The toon is almost in full Rataka with a few battlemaster pices.

Swapping a Rataka piece for a single recruit piece is a roughly 2-3% hit to all stats (endurance, primary, secondaries, and some armor reduction compared to my total) since recuit gear has such poor non-expertise stats. This swapping nets a super ~1-1.5% buff to damage from the expertise. It depends a little on which item you're swapping, but recruit is a significant step down from Rataka.

Seriously people like this are the reason I only win 2 or 3 Warzones all day long. Self centered ******es who only care about themselves and never play to win. This is a MMO. If you wanna drag down your teams on purpose then **** and go play a FPS or something. Just quit already. MMOs dont need more bads and all of your posts scream "Im a bad, I dont care, and I am gonna drag all my teams down to my level of fail"

No, ... the fact that BioWare pairs you up with them is the problem. As I've said before, Bioware will implement ranked warzones (full, not just pre-season 8x8) before your complaining makes other people change their behavior.

It is not the casual player's fault that bioware groups them up with serious competitors. Spend your energy urging bioware to prioritize ranked WZs (which require cross server WZ) higher.

Wow, I didn't know all the Call of Duty nerds were playing Star Wars: TOR.

Guys, take your meds and relax. It's just a game. We're not playing for the world series or trying to bring about world peace by playing war zones. Play and have fun. If someone is rolling in PVE gear, so be it. You know how many times I've seen a PVP player showing up in OPS and HMs in PVP gear? You don't hear me complaining. We need the player base, even if it IS bad. I'd rather take a WZ full of PVE geared ppl than no WZ's at all, because thats currently how it is on my server. 3 hrs in queue and not a single WZ pop. Fun!

No, just plain no!

People are already leaving the game. Putting another restriction on them to enter a busted PvP system is just a bad idea. Would you like to have no one play? or do you feel PvP is for the hardcore only? To balance your suggestion, I suggest that ALL pvp gear instantly lose ALL STATS when not in a PvP zone. Make them work like the PvP adrenals and stims.

What I find interesting is I've had 3 people in the last few days get on my case for not buying recruit gear on my L50. I'm a casual PVPer.

 

The toon is almost in full Rataka with a few battlemaster pices.

 

Swapping a Rataka piece for a single recruit piece is a roughly 2-3% hit to all stats (endurance, primary, secondaries, and some armor reduction compared to my total) since recuit gear has such poor non-expertise stats. This swapping nets a super ~1-1.5% buff to damage from the expertise. It depends a little on which item you're swapping, but recruit is a significant step down from Rataka.

so apparently the Devs don't know how the game works.

Having zero or little expertise on your gear (e.g. pure PvE gear) is the primary reason for people to experience a sped-up time to death in Game Update 1.2. While it was quite viable pre-1.2 to bring your Rakata or Columi gear without any added expertise into PvP, the increased focus on expertise in the PvP track of gear has made it much harder to compete with that equipment compared to even the entry level Recruit set.

 

Consequently, the single most effective step you can take to decrease time to death (i.e. increase time to kill of your opponent) is to gear for increased expertise. Coming from PvE, obtaining at least some pieces of Recruit gear is definitely recommended.

Please teach them the error of their ways . They mistakenly think expertise dominates other stats

No, just plain no!

 

People are already leaving the game. Putting another restriction on them to enter a busted PvP system is just a bad idea. Would you like to have no one play? or do you feel PvP is for the hardcore only? To balance your suggestion, I suggest that ALL pvp gear instantly lose ALL STATS when not in a PvP zone. Make them work like the PvP adrenals and stims.

Your suggestion would ruin PvP gear for world pvp, but if they wanted to make it work like that in PvE I'd have no problem with that. I fail to see how it would force people to leave the game though. Would you cancel your subscription if your OP group wanted the tank to wear tank gear, a healer to wear healing gear or DPS to wear dps gear? I doubt you would. Would you let someone in level 40 greens and blues into your Hardmode OP group or even a normal OP group? I highly doubt it. You'd probably want someone that has put some effort into getting their gear ready to run the content.

Is the cost of Recruit gear really that high? Its free if you farm it in Outlaws Den and credits are pretty easy to come by doing a few dailies if you just want to buy the gear. Is it really so bad to ask people to do be prepared for PvP when they set foot into a WZ?

Honestly, I think that being forced to PvP with people who refuse to wear PvP gear is forcing more people away from the game than my proposal would cause to cancel if implemented.

so apparently the Devs don't know how the game works.

 

 

Please teach them the error of their ways . They mistakenly think expertise dominates other stats

I'm not quite sure what your getting at. The dev comments are extremely vague. Compared to Columni, recruit is viable. Anything less than Columni, you should definitely have recruit to optimize PVP stats. Compared to Rataka, Black Hole, or Campaign, recruit is a step down because you give up too much endurance, primary, and secondary stats for the expertise on recruit gear to make up.

Expertise is still important, it's just important to know where the break even point is.

Why would I drop my damage (via primary stat) and also drop by health by ~3% per piece to get ~1% damage reduction and ~1% damage bonus from expertise?

Now, if you compare Battlemaster to Rataka..the Battlemaster is better for PVP.

Wow, I didn't know all the Call of Duty nerds were playing Star Wars: TOR.

Guys, take your meds and relax. It's just a game. We're not playing for the world series or trying to bring about world peace by playing war zones. Play and have fun. If someone is rolling in PVE gear, so be it. You know how many times I've seen a PVP player showing up in OPS and HMs in PVP gear? You don't hear me complaining. We need the player base, even if it IS bad. I'd rather take a WZ full of PVE geared ppl than no WZ's at all, because thats currently how it is on my server. 3 hrs in queue and not a single WZ pop. Fun!

You have the option not to take the person in PvP in your OP group, PvP'ers don't have that option when the guy with 11k health and level 40 greens shows up in their WZ they've been waiting in the queue for an hour to get in. You're correct that we're not playing for rating, but we are trying to maximize our time in game. I'm not 20 years old anymore and I don't have all day to sit around and play. If I can only be online long enough to get in 3 maybe 4 WZs I need to maximize my chance of winning so I can get my daily done and continue to gear up my character.

When people don't have the courtesy to wear PvP gear in WZs it severely hurts my team's chances of winning. It affects 7 other people negatively. If you're really worried about people leaving the game, you'd be wearing PvP gear in WZs because not doing so frustrates people into quitting or simply not pvping. Its not like the gear is not freely available to anyone either. If you don't have money go farm it in Outlaw's Den on Tatooine, it drops for free there in the chests.

I'm not quite sure what your getting at. The dev comments are extremely vague. Compared to Columni, recruit is viable. Compared to Rataka, Black Hole, or Campaign, recruit is a step down because you give up too much endurance, primary, and secondary stats for the expertise on recruit gear to make up.

 

Expertise is still important, it's just important to know where the break even point is.

 

Why would I drop my damage (via primary stat) and also drop by health by ~3% per piece to get ~1% damage reduction and ~1% damage bonus from expertise?

Trust me, even if you have full Campaign gear, you still will want to mix in the Recruit set for all but maybe 2 pieces or if the 4 set piece is just that good. Anyone wearing full PvE gear is just a free kill unless they're a tank, and in that case you can just ignore them.

On my toon...

WP= 5,000,000,000

END=5,000,000,000

CRIT= 100%

 

etc, etc.

 

Now do you see why it matters?

***sigh.....No, probably not. I'll do both just be patient.

[EDIT] I also don't know exactly what pieces you are wearing(MASTER/MYSTIC/STALKER), but I will just put my stuff on and we will have your tale of the tape....

Yes cos lying about stats would matter how? Its not like you cant check it on any website or so what a set gives. And what optimal modding options there are.

My sorc is running in stalker gear, I prefered those set bonuses over the others, and alacrity would only apply to my force lighting, so would be a total waste in general.

I did however miss one thing, I do have BM ear and implants aswell with those stats, so cul set plus rakata ear, imps, bracers, belt and weapon would be the correct setup, with the matrix relic. I cant remember but if my memory serves me right my gear is optimized around surge and power in every piece. Ripped glove mods/enhancements in all pieces. So maybe that comparison wont work in the end.

But feel free to run around in whatever gear you find good and go against the stream that says and has proven that since 1.2 expertise is the way to go. There is no reason for me to test it further, it has even been explained in several links you have posted and not read yourself.

The difference in damage, survivability and healing is just to big to pass up. Pure % buffs are better than formula based stat buffs that suffers a DR very quickly i.e all secondary stats besides power suffer from DR, expertise starts suffering at a much higher peak.

edit: Will actually go and check my assassins stats, can easily check what damage deathfield does for him in recruit gear.

Assassin stats in full recruit gear, BM belt, BM bracer, matrix relic, champ shield generator, champ relic. Sin buff, BH buff, agent buff, rakata stim.

WP: 1293

End: 1243

Bonus dmg: 336 Melee, 550 Force

Exp: 16.74%, 14.34%, 9.17%

Crit: 27.40% Melee, 26.34 Force

Surge: 62.12% 84 Rating

Deathfield dmg: 1299-1363 (1516-1591 vs players with no expertise)

There is a difference between those stats and my sorc, but my sorc is also optimized for surge and power. Versus any other gear that isnt yet optimized recruit gear does just fine. Not even PvE gear starts with optimized stats, so you sacrifice alot on alacrit or accuracy, stats that just arent really good as dps in pvp, especially not as a madsin.

Trust me, even if you have full Campaign gear, you still will want to mix in the Recruit set for all but maybe 2 pieces or if the 4 set piece is just that good. Anyone wearing full PvE gear is just a free kill unless they're a tank, and in that case you can just ignore them.

Honestly, we shouldnt try to get that message across to those people, because lets face it, those free kill rakata people are nice to have ont he other team.

Honestly, we shouldnt try to get that message across to those people, because lets face it, those free kill rakata people are nice to have ont he other team.

For some reason those guys only show up on the team I'm on.

Occasionally you can use PvE gear to fake your gear level since PvE gear always have higher HP and that's the only thing truly visible to the other team. For example full Columi might get you 17K which is BM/WH range, so if you're a mid or lower survivality range DPS you can sometimes make you look less attractive as a first kill target versus a 14K guy in Recruit gear. That said, as soon as anyone actually hits you they'll realize you're still an easy kill, so it's certainly not a long term solution.

Level 49 now. when i hit 50 i wont get any pvp gear just so i can see the hate tells

*snicker*