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Gamebreaking behaviour within hardmode flashpoints


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There has always been some kind of mobskipping in either small or large scale in flashpoints but the latest trend is simply wrong.

 

It seems that teams doing flashpoints skip some of the bosses and have no respect for the ones that are signing up to get better gear.

 

Please respect the players that join flashpoints with groupfinder to gear up, it is enough to wait for ages for them to pop.

 

Alternatively Bioware could make the flashpoint not complete unless all bosses are dead (the way it should be)

 

Thoughts?

 

Is it fair to ignore players in the team that needs gear and steamroll through the flashpoint not listening at all?

 

If you need gear simply ask the group prior to the Flashpoint if they wouldn't mind killing some of the bosses so they can get gear. 99.9% of groups have no problems doing so.

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There has always been some kind of mobskipping in either small or large scale in flashpoints but the latest trend is simply wrong.

 

It seems that teams doing flashpoints skip some of the bosses and have no respect for the ones that are signing up to get better gear.

 

Please respect the players that join flashpoints with groupfinder to gear up, it is enough to wait for ages for them to pop.

 

Alternatively Bioware could make the flashpoint not complete unless all bosses are dead (the way it should be)

 

Thoughts?

 

Is it fair to ignore players in the team that needs gear and steamroll through the flashpoint not listening at all?

 

Some of those mobs and bosses that you want to defeat for gear(some of which isnt all that great, imo) are capable of wiping the entire team. Depending on the gear and experience makeup of the team, skipping some of the content is not necessarily a bad idea.

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No, I would not change to tank only to play more often. I always play to have fun and to tank is not fun for me

 

As a DPS you will always be a passenger in the group. What the tank and healer wants is generally what the group will do, you don't like it? You can always step in to their role and take control for yourself.

 

And again, the gear is worthless, the time spent is a waste for the VAST majority of players out there to kill these mobs...because lord knows, I really need another tionese crystal to go with my collection of 1000, pretty sure it's been at the cap for months.

 

I don't need that crap even my companions don't need that crap. If I'm in there, I'm there for BH coms and BH coms alone. Sorry, but you are just another nameless face who happened to be in my group. I don't owe you anything and you don't deserve to have any expectations of me or my time.

 

Get your chance at columi gear at the end and be thankful for that and your daily BH com reward and put up.

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If you need gear simply ask the group prior to the Flashpoint if they wouldn't mind killing some of the bosses so they can get gear. 99.9% of groups have no problems doing so.

 

That is exactly what I have asked every flashpoint while I was investigating this, and my conclusion is not 99,9% as you write. It is more like 5-10 % of the groups that agrees to do anything else then a "speed run".

 

Some are severe allergic to kill ONE mob except the outmost necessary and end up either leaving, starting a drama or ignoring me for asking.

 

If I only read your reply on the forum I might have believed you but I have done some research about this and my conclusion is that I do not agree with you

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Some of those mobs and bosses that you want to defeat for gear(some of which isnt all that great, imo) are capable of wiping the entire team. Depending on the gear and experience makeup of the team, skipping some of the content is not necessarily a bad idea.

 

Shoot holes in your own arugment a lot? How does one get experience killing a boss? You read up on it and then do it. How does one get gear? You kill the bosses that drop the gear. Skipping bosses does not help with these things. Now yes I understant the desire of skipping. Heck I have even done it myself, a lot. Running the same FP's over and over on my sin tank on it's way to 50 (my 4th 50 btw) gets old quick. But if someone says hey I want to do the bonus boss I'll do it. I'll even sit throught CS's while you speed runners are screaming "SPACEBAR!!!!!11!!!!1!!!one!!!1!!!" just because one of the DPS'ers in the group hasn't experienced the content before.

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As a DPS you will always be a passenger in the group.

 

I do not agree with you, not by a longshot.

 

Get your chance at columi gear at the end and be thankful for that and your daily BH com reward and put up.

 

 

I have columni/rakata/BH/WH geared characters but I am investigating this as a phenomenon. Please read some of my conclusions in this thread if you are interested, this is not something I write for myself.

Edited by Icestar
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As a DPS you will always be a passenger in the group.

I do not agree with you, not by a longshot.

 

Actually for SWTOR Sydexlic is correct. FP's are pretty much a two person party with the other two slots fillable for what ever cc's/damage dealing meat heads you can find. And I say this with an Arsenal Merc main. You do not need a puller because you are not camping. There is no decidated buff/debuff class nor is there a decidated mez (cc) class as everyone has those abilities. Bascially all you need is a Tank to keep hate, a Healer to keep the tank alive and two other randoms that can spam attacks and/or cc's over on adds. Don't beleve me try playing EQ, FFXI, or even Rift somewhat and see what you need for a party makeup when running a raid or a dungeon.

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Actually for SWTOR Sydexlic is correct. FP's are pretty much a two person party with the other two slots fillable for what ever cc's/damage dealing meat heads you can find.

 

A needed spot in a team is not a passenger. Try do a HM flashpoint with only a healer and a tank, with standard gear.

 

I would never call a needed spot a passenger.

 

Now ontopic on my original subject please :tran_cool:

Edited by Icestar
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I hate when people skip. There are a dozen reasons not to:

 

1.) Daily comms drop off most mini bosses and some main bosses. Right now, almost everyone can benifit from daily comms. The list of things to buy and why are just to many to list.

 

2.). Every boss drops at least tionese crystals. Off hand weapons are cheap, 14 comms and 20 crystals (I think) and sell for 12.5k. Most runs will net you enough to buy at least 2. That's 25k, more than you get for the daily it's self.

 

3.). All the trash loot that can be sold to boost your income. With alot of playerd complaining about being poor, I don't know why more people are maximizeing thier credits potential.

 

4.). BoEs that can be sold from bosses and trash loot. Not to mention chances on Columi implants and ear pieces that can be dropped. Could be sold or go to companions. I personally love to send them to alts. Help get them into flashpoints without being a leeching scrub in recruit gear.

 

5.). Legacy xp. I know, some people don't care. But some do.

 

You see, there are alot of reasons to do all the bosses and clear the content. Notice that those are all selfish reasons and helping people gear up wasn't even mentioned. The next time you want to be selfish, at least do it right. And o yeah, bio and scavaging can get mats in the runs that they can either sell or make crafted goods for use or resale.

 

My #1 reason to not skip: needless wipes thwt cost me credits. >:(

 

The "issue" is that at this point of the game, people are doing HM for the BH comms. The columi drop at the end is even not a goal anymore, it's just a bonus till you can get BH gear.

 

People need to accept that at this point, Columi (and Exotech) is nothing but an intermediary gear. Like it or not but most rewards are completely useless, a bunch of bosses still drop blue gear... Seriously, blue gear...

 

So once again, today the common denominator to run any HM is to get BH comms, if you don't like it get a guild and stay out of groupfinder.

Edited by demotivator
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A needed spot in a team is not a passenger. Try do a HM flashpoint with only a healer and a tank, with standard gear.

 

I would never call a needed spot a passenger.

 

Now ontopic on my original subject please :tran_cool:

 

Did and done before is not that hard as long as those people know how to play their class. Sin Tank and Sorc Healer. Just about everyone in SWTOR has a CC. (No Mez class required) Everyone has a class buff and no class has a specific job of buff/debuff. (No Bard type class required) The whole game is linear with no sandbox elements so you are not camping a spot and bringing mobs to a party. (No pulling class required). I challenge you with this. Try doing any FP at the rated level with nothing but two DPS or even four DPS.^^

 

And I only brought it up beacause you did. :p

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A needed spot in a team is not a passenger. Try do a HM flashpoint with only a healer and a tank, with standard gear.

 

I would never call a needed spot a passenger.

 

Now ontopic on my original subject please :tran_cool:

 

That spot is needed to make the queue pop through GF. It's not needed to clear the instance. Half of the content in HM FPs has been soloed and the other half has been 2 manned.

 

Now I personally don't mind fighting bosses we would normally skip, I DO mind doing Bonus bosses in a HM FP. Each boss only take a short amount of time, but activating a bonus boss means a lot of trash has to be fought. That said, there are some bosses that I would rather skip anyway, especially if they are prone to wiping a group like the "run through" boss on HM BoI.

 

Now the key offenders for boss skipping are BoI and T5, each only requiring you to fight 1 boss and a handful of trash. Compare a 12 minute run to the end with a 30-45 minute full clear and tell me which you'd rather do, given that most people are only getting BH comms and those that could use the gear are still able to get it in other FPs from non-skippable bosses. For example, Kaon, Esseles, D7 and MP all have plenty of non-skippable bosses for you to fight. Enjoy a quick run when you can and we'll do a proper clear when I have to.

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So once again, today the common denominator to run any HM is to get BH comms, if you don't like it get a guild and stay out of groupfinder.

 

That is not a nice thing to say, but you represent many of those I met when I investigated this.

 

It is sad that Biowares flashpoints has become nothing more then comm grinding farms. People used to enjoy killing bosses and had alot of fun, that is atleast how it used to be.

 

I stil enjoy the flashpoints though and I never ever only do them for comms, I do them because I think they are fun do to.

Edited by Icestar
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That is not a nice thing to say, but you represent many of those I met when I investigated this.

 

It is sad that Biowares flashpoints has become nothing more then comm grinding farms. People used to enjoy killing bosses and had alot of fun, that is atleast how it used to be.

 

I stil enjoy the flashpoints though and I never ever only do them for comms, I do them because I think they are fun do to.

 

As do I. When leveling I love running FPs. They give good gear, help you learn a toon and how it fits in a group. At 50 diong HMs most people have the gear, they know their toons and they know how the fit in a group. So you just speed run it for comms. Plus, everyone overgears them these days so it isn't a challenge, there is no sense of accomplishment like the first time you downed Bulwark pre-nerf, the first time you took out LR-5 and Lorrick or even the first time you took down Ironfist. Thanks to over gear (most of) these aren't scary anymore.

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So once again, today the common denominator to run any HM is to get BH comms, if you don't like it get a guild and stay out of groupfinder.

 

It's so but it's WRONG!

 

i assume that people en masse always do the easiest way.

with recruit and soon-will-be-in-1.6 tionese armor for free - nobody will run HM Flashs for that stuff.

with BH commendations and BH and campaign gear to buy a few of people (especially overgeared) will not skip bonus goals and minor bosses

Anyone will be glad to have all the gear without even running Flashs or Ops, just with one click (see recruit stuff) - we are lazy and mean, you know.

 

But that players have such opportunity to skip content - it's a mistake and must be change.

If the content is made - everybody must run it in full and proper way. No skipping, no sidewalking, no cheats.

You pay to play not to skip!

 

It's a matter of bad design.

And of bad loot balance and gear levelling too, but it's another question and another discussion

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why then skip-running them?

do what is still scarying you :-)

or do it proper way if you do run it for fun and not for gear!

 

Yeah, definitely. People will have a lot of fun and joy over spending 1 hour in flashpoints that can be completed in 15 minutes that they have done perhaps a hundred times before and will have jolly good FUN!

............

...........

 

 

Not.

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Yeah, definitely. People will have a lot of fun and joy over spending 1 hour in flashpoints that can be completed in 15 minutes that they have done perhaps a hundred times before and will have jolly good FUN!

Not.

 

If you run one certain Flashpoint hundred times - it's all because your own greediness has you.

No one needs to run a Flashpoint 'hundreds times' to get one part of gear set - no more then 10 and you will have it for sure.

You've got your part of gear? Run another Flashs for another parts. Got the whole set? Run operations. Did all operations nightmare mode both 8 and 16 men? You are kidding!

Nobody makes you run any Flash 'hundred times'. Nobody. There is no need for that in the game at all.

 

Wanna grind days and nights to be a little overgeared goddy?

Then do not complaint about "i am tired of hundreds runs to get proper gear for me, for my companions, for my alt, for my alt's companions, for my another alts and for theirs companions and just a bit to sell out on GTN to get some money because i am so greedy and first of all for BH commendations to buy more gear from vendors because big boys do not take me with them to operations..."

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If you run one certain Flashpoint hundred times - it's all because your own greediness has you.

No one needs to run a Flashpoint 'hundreds times' to get one part of gear set - no more then 10 and you will have it for sure.

You've got your part of gear? Run another Flashs for another parts. Got the whole set? Run operations. Did all operations nightmare mode both 8 and 16 men? You are kidding!

Nobody makes you run any Flash 'hundred times'. Nobody. There is no need for that in the game at all.

 

Wanna grind days and nights to be a little overgeared goddy?

Then do not complaint about "i am tired of hundreds runs to get proper gear for me, for my companions, for my alt, for my alt's companions, for my another alts and for theirs companions and just a bit to sell out on GTN to get some money because i am so greedy and first of all for BH commendations to buy more gear from vendors because big boys do not take me with them to operations..."

 

You are missing the point. There is no fun to be had about content you have already seen, chewed and digested. You simply do that as a means to an end, you do not have fun in that FP, you have fun when you get your end result. (BH commendations for most), if you make FP's 45 minutes instead of 15, these people won't have fun in the end, as you seem to claim.

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You are missing the point.

 

no, i am not.

 

There is no fun to be had about content you have already seen, chewed and digested.

 

how many times you need to run it to get your part of gear? 5 or 6 runs?

how many times you need to run content 'in 15 minutes' to fully and totally chew it and digest?

why do you run it more?

no fun no run.

it's simple.

 

You simply do that as a means to an end, you do not have fun in that FP, you have fun when you get your end result. (BH commendations for most)

 

You do not need BH commendations from HM Flashs if you run operations and get campaign gear from ops loot.

There's no hard work to get BH comms enough for implants and ears (35 each) - the only BIS gear you can not take from ops loot. And these gear is not vital for ops effectiveness. It helps, but not vital.

 

and about your fun from end result - people are supposed to have fun playing through content.

not just from getting the final loot. loot is just a help to get to another, next content.

 

why on earth are you playing for? to get The Most BFG in the Game only!?

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So, by reading a few pages of this i've come up with this...

 

So all you newer play realize why all us 'geared' experienced player most likely skip all this. When we hit 50, we ran these FP's to gear, we were locked out of these FP's after running them once per day. We were not over geared and honestly some of these FP's had some rough spots while attempting them in daily gear/tio/columni gear(there was no BH ect.). I remember it took me 3 week's running BP to get the damn boots.

 

I do these FP for 1 reason and 1 reason only now, for the BH com's so i can gear alts or r/e bh gear for mats. That being said, i've done every FP on HM no less than 75 times. I do not want to watch the convo, i do not want to kill trash i can skip, i do not want to waste anymore time in said FP than i need to. However, if i join a GF HM FP and i see players w/ 13k-14k HP, i absolutely have no issue in taking another 2-3 mins to kill a random mini or bonus boss in a fp(except kaon cause that one just takes forever and ppl in that gear will die lol) all they need to do is ask. I also space bar through every convo(everyone should have done these while lvling cept maybe the last few d7, kaon, ect.) if someone states they haven't seen the video, then by all means go ahead and watch it, just let it be known this is your first time, i will not give you any bs.

 

So all in all speak up and the majority of the people will sympathize with you(at least i will), but to be honestly we just wanna face roll as fast as possible thru the FP and if your slowing the group down more often than not your pissing the exp. players off. Or we're just laughing at how bad you are... i.e. you have no idea how many dps assassins ive seen standing 25 meters out the entire FP LoL.(even after telling them they are a melee class, christ the only ability that can hit that far is FL if they use recklessness... and thats on what a 1-2 min CD lol)

Edited by wetslampigduex
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Discussion looks like Greek tragedy where either opposing side was right or doing the right thing. :)

 

I would however consider gamebreaking or unfair imposing on players the need to clear everything - that is what communication is for - agree on start one way or the other, stay or leave by own decision and suck it up if you have not left the group which you did not like.

 

On my side I was never met with any rude or insulting behavior when asking in FP if anyone would do bonus bosses because I never seen them yet. It turned out in each group that there was at least 1 other person who never did it. Funny moment comes when group who blitzes in 15 mins through HM FP for BH comms start wiping on bonus boss. ;)

 

Rgs

 

PS.

You do not need BH commendations from HM Flashs if you run operations and get campaign gear from ops loot.

There's no hard work to get BH comms enough for implants and ears (35 each) - the only BIS gear you can not take from ops loot. And these gear is not vital for ops effectiveness. It helps, but not vital.

That's right but we're hamsters on the treadmill. Edited by BogyOne
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I liked the constructive suggestions a while back about making killing bosses worthwhile. As it is, the super awesome loot they drop isn't worth most players' time. If they dropped BH comms, even one, I'm sure you'd see people killing them - even hitting bonus bosses.

 

As it stands, Bioware incents boss/trash skipping: the faster you can get through a run, the faster you can gear up. I'm happy with this, too, but either option is fine. But expecting GF groups to be in a FP for an hour for no greater reward (12.5k from a tionese offhand aside) seems...cruel.

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no, i am not.

 

 

 

how many times you need to run it to get your part of gear? 5 or 6 runs?

how many times you need to run content 'in 15 minutes' to fully and totally chew it and digest?

why do you run it more?

no fun no run.

it's simple.

 

 

 

You do not need BH commendations from HM Flashs if you run operations and get campaign gear from ops loot.

There's no hard work to get BH comms enough for implants and ears (35 each) - the only BIS gear you can not take from ops loot. And these gear is not vital for ops effectiveness. It helps, but not vital.

 

and about your fun from end result - people are supposed to have fun playing through content.

not just from getting the final loot. loot is just a help to get to another, next content.

 

why on earth are you playing for? to get The Most BFG in the Game only!?

 

Ah. Ahahahahaha. 5-6 runs? You sir, are a complete joke, or an oblivious person to how this game works. And you have no right whatsoever to tell me how I should play, what I should do. Cry all you like, I will prefer my 15 minute runs to your 45 minute all boss trash killing runs? Not like it? I am a tank, I will get insta pop another group after leaving yours, and will have my way.

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I would note that only the columni rewards , Daily , and BH comms are worth doing. The tionese comms drop too slow to be worth the trouble of getting that gear. I already have all purple mods , augments, and purple armour with just a week or so of dailies. I do though prefer to do all the bosses. However, I have yet to do a single HM flashpoint in which the group did not skip all bosses possible. Including the final boss of Taral V which would have dropped a columni piece. I would prefer to do at least the bosses and definitely the final boss on all runs I do. However, I believe a fast run with a group that can do it is better than a slow run in a group that can't, or leaving and rolling the group dice again. I do think BW should make the quest bosses sequenced so you have to kill each boss to unlock the next and have to defeat the last boss to finish the flashpoint. The fact that you can run past the last boss on taral v and go straight to talking to the scientist and your done is very bad design. Also bosses should not leave combat if we run away they should chase us all the way till we or they are dead. Otherwise make a door behind all bosses that you have to unlock by defeating them to continue. There is no logical reason to design things so that a boss can be skipped might as well redesign the flashpoints so they are final boss only.
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