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Marauder/Sentinel Set Bonus Discussion


EricMusco

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Hey everyone,

 

We wanted to take a moment to reach out to the community to collect ideas on set bonuses. We are looking for opinions on current and previous set bonuses as well as concepts for future. This thread will cover Marauders/Sentinels.

 

Note: Our intent is to have set bonuses not increase DPS by more than 5%. Please keep this in mind when posting your suggestions.

 

Current Level 60 Set Bonuses (for reference)

  • 2-Piece: Battering Assault or Zealous Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds.
  • 4-Piece: Reduces the cooldown of Frenzy or Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases all damage dealt by 3% for 10 seconds.
  • 6-Piece: Activating Ravage, Master Strike, Dual Saber Throw, or Twin Saber Throw will grant Weaponmaster's/Challenger's Critical Bonus making your next Vicious Throw, Furious Strike and Annihilate or Dispatch, Concentrated Slice and Merciless Slash critically hit. This effect can't occur more than once every minute.

Cheers, all!

The SWTOR Combat Team

Edited by EricMusco
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What's the point in suggesting something that will get ignored as usual? I'm sorry for the negativity, but please prove me wrong. For every recent patch that affected Marauders we gave you 50 or more pages of feedback and yet you **** in our face. Number one example is the self-heal nerf and the Stoic/Brazen "buff", that literally straight up ignored the feedback and then you proceeded to give the stupidest excuse ever:

While the Fury/Centering generation applied by Defensive Forms (and the new Brazen/Stoic) improves the DPS and defensive output of Marauders/Sentinels who are being actively attacked, it does nothing for those who are avoiding damage or attention and allowing their team/companions to draw the target’s ire. Due to this fact, we are leaving this Fury/Centering generation skill as a player choice and not moving it to a class-baseline passive.

I really don't see the use in suggesting anything new. I'm sure others will keep trying though. Good luck.

Set bonus changes aren't needed. Other changes are needed.

 

I will just repeat AGAIN what I and (judging by the posts of other Maras in the past) most of the Marauder community thinks.

Reverse the homogenization crap you're trying to pull, by giving every every DoT spec the same self heal-concept. Crit-selfheal was great and fun and unique. Bring it back, give us 2% back (maybe 1,5% if you're afraid it'll be broken). Remove your fkd up DoT-spread idea in turn, this spec doesn't need a spread anyway. Simple.

Make Stoic/Brazen a baseline passive and move Expunging Camo to tier 1. Come up with something new for Heroic. Simple.

Bring the old Anni playstyle back. Fix Combat Gore window or Ravage damage. Simple.

Nothing else needed.

Edited by DynamiCtagez
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2 piece: When you activate Force Rend / Force Melt you automatically use the /cry emote.

 

4 piece: When in Annihilation / Watchman Force Rend / Force Melt are removed and the damage made up elsewhere. :rak_01:

 

Sorry to be non-constructive here but you have bigger issues than set bonuses here. If you fixed Annihilation and returned it to it's true hybrid DoT style of play from pre 3.0 rather than this true DoT spec garbage I would be happy with KOTFE even without new Ops.

Edited by MorgenBlue
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No point in providing feedback on what we want for our class when it is consistently ignored.

 

Seems to me that the only purpose of these feedback threads is for the devs to know what they're up against in defending whatever changes they've already decided upon. Or possibly asking this in every class thread is just a pathetic attempt to distract people from the complete lack of new end game content. It certainly isn't about integrating our ideas on how the classes operate.

 

I'll offer this feedback to you: You have done absolutely nothing to convince me that you care about what we all think.

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Marauders have way more problems than their set bonus right now. The other classes didn't get treated like we did so I get the feeling this thread is going to be pretty bitter. That said I don't see why you all are looking at changing the set bonuses. Honestly they are pretty much fine for all the AC's right now. Instead of focusing on the set bonuses that are all pretty beneficial to everyone right now I think you need to focus more on the class balance itself. The marauder community still hates the current form of annihilation and you completely ignored our pleas to fix it or even revert it to 2.10 when it was nearly perfect. PT/Assassin/Sorc are still pretty OP in pvp......I think you guys are focusing on the wrong stuff here. Edited by Raansu
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My thoughts:

 

Right now I like the buff's the set bonus currently gives though the jury is still out on which set bonus is better.

Some napkin math.

2 - piece gives 2% for 15 seconds every 30. This results in 1% extra damage.

4 - piece gives 3% for 10 seconds after zen. Zen comes roughly every 20 seconds though there is variation from spec to spec. This is a 50% up time with 3% damage bonus or an average of 1.5%

6 - piece gives about 5k extra damage every minute or 5000/60= 83dps that in a 5k parse translates into 1.67%

 

So far we have a 4.17% dps gain from set bonus which is below your stated goal. Changing the new four piece to be more similar to the old 4-piece will give us closer to the 5% dps goal you stated while also tilting the scales in favor of new set bonus compared to the old. Other than that, set bonuses for sentinel are good.

Edited by g_mK
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No reason to change anything, they all are fine as damage increases. If we had more context like 'we don't like how much more burst is created by having an autocrit on the 6 piece. What would be a good idea for a different way of helping burst damage on the 6 piece?' we could help more. As is the question is very open ended, and they don't need sweeping reform. Edited by Emperor-Norton
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Every other class has pages of replies to their topic, but we don't. I think we've all realized there's no point in sharing feedback that will just be ignored like when the 3.0 PTS launched, but go ahead EA. Prove us wrong. I dare you. I would say you can't do any worse, but I know better. Edited by Bugattiboy
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Every other class has pages of replies to their topic, but we don't. I think we've all realized there's no point in sharing feedback that will just be ignored just when the 3.0 PTS launched, but go ahead EA. Prove us wrong. I dare you. I would say you can't do any worse, but I know better.

 

Like I said in my first post. This thread is going to be pretty bitter lol.

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Speaking from the Annihilaton point of view:

I believe the 6th tier set bonus is a bit out of place. I would advocate for a flat damage increase to Annihilation, if anything, rather than give it an autocrit once a minute. There might be other ways to go, but the current autocrit just doesn't seem right. It does give a damage increase, however slight it might be, but it introduces some awkwardness, unpredictability even over the course of long boss fights with adds, if you know what I mean. Wonder what Oofalong or Ardarell would say.

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Like I said in my first post. This thread is going to be pretty bitter lol.

 

Bugattiboy is also wrong. Out of all the specs set bonus threads, at the time I write this, only 3 others have more than 1 page of replies...

Edited by azudelphi
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I dont understand 1 thing: why do you need our feedback to ignore us? Cant you just ignore us without us writing pages about what our class needs, or is it more funny that we write so much yet you still just go with your useless ideas and fixes? Have you not noticed that WE DONT LIKE WHAT YOU DID TO OUR CLASS! Noone likes the new playstyles, what do we need to do to use a time machine and revert us back to 2.X???
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The Sentinel needs some resistance to constant CC especially as a melee class. Borrowing a page from the Guardian's playbook would be welcome. I think immunity to stuns after force leap and finishing the CD on force leap with saber throw would be a welcome change. This would provide a nice buff to Combat especially which relies on a 3 sec Precision window.

These reforms would be very useful in a boss fight where I need to leap out of a circle, or defend the healer from yet another trash mob.

 

Proposed Level 60 Set Bonuses:

2-Piece: Zealous Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Additionally, Force Leap / Charge grants immunity to stuns knock-backs and all CC for 5 sec.

 

4-Piece: Saber Throw finishes the cooldown on Force Leap. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases movement speed by 15% and all damage dealt by 3% for 10 seconds.

 

6-Piece: Lowers the cool-down of Valorous Call by 30 seconds. Additionally, activating Ravage, Master Strike, Dual Saber Throw, or Twin Saber Throw will grant Weaponmaster's/Challenger's Critical Bonus making your next Vicious Throw, Furious Strike and Annihilate or Dispatch, Concentrated Slice and Merciless Slash critically hit. This effect can't occur more than once every minute.

Edited by LukeArvin
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I dont understand 1 thing: why do you need our feedback to ignore us? Cant you just ignore us without us writing pages about what our class needs, or is it more funny that we write so much yet you still just go with your useless ideas and fixes? Have you not noticed that WE DONT LIKE WHAT YOU DID TO OUR CLASS! Noone likes the new playstyles, what do we need to do to use a time machine and revert us back to 2.X???

 

It would be great if they miraculously listened to us and gave us 2.10 annihilation in the expansion. I don't see it happening but one can dream.

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All these 2% dmg increase and autocrit bonuses are awfully boring and don't make much sense in some cases.

 

-These autocrits can result in someone getting globaled in 3 seconds in arenas where there's no tanks and every dps is focusing 1 target.

-The 2% dmg increase ... ZZzzz

 

Here's a list of the nice and fun bonuses that are already in game:

 

-Reduces the minimum range of saber throw - Juggs

 

-Lightning Strike and Lightning Bolt or Disturbance and Telekinetic Burst reduce the cooldown of Recklessness or Force Potency by 1 second. - Sorcs

 

-Consumption or Noble Sacrifice no longer removes any health when used with a stack of Force Surge or Resplendence. - Sorcs

 

-Wither or Slow Time reduces the cooldown of Mind Control and Mass Mind Control by 2 seconds per activation. - Sins

 

-Dark Ward’s or Kinetic Ward’s duration is increased by 3 seconds and charges are increased by 3. - Sins

 

These are the couple examples that have a direct impact on how you play your toon. Having more bonuses that reduces the cooldowns of certain abilities when activating another ability would be great. You could take some of the class utilities in the utility tree and make them set bonuses instead. Like the marauder's cloak of annihilation.

 

One of my old favorite bonus was the 8% heal when activating intercede as a jugg. Would probably be too much right now since juggs are pretty tough but you can see how a bonus like that would change someone's behavior.

 

It seems pretty clear that bonuses for healers and tanks are better or a lot more specific and tailored for their role because they're made for just 1 discipline while dps bonuses have to work for 2 disciplines

 

There's also a couple unfairness when it comes to having every class get 1 autocrit. Operative's kolto injection is a lesser heal compared to Merc's healing scan but both get the autocrit treatment . Could say the same about ambush and maul and heatseeker missiles.

 

In the end, i think the answer is to bring back separate PVE and PVP bonuses. PVE bonuses would result in higher dps or easier energy management while PVP bonuses would result in better utilities or defensive abilities.

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Hey everyone,

Note: Our intent is to have set bonuses not increase DPS by more than 5%. Please keep this in mind when posting your suggestions.

 

Current Level 60 Set Bonuses (for reference)

  • 2-Piece: Battering Assault or Zealous Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds.
  • 4-Piece: Reduces the cooldown of Frenzy or Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases all damage dealt by 3% for 10 seconds.
  • 6-Piece: Activating Ravage, Master Strike, Dual Saber Throw, or Twin Saber Throw will grant Weaponmaster's/Challenger's Critical Bonus making your next Vicious Throw, Furious Strike and Annihilate or Dispatch, Concentrated Slice and Merciless Slash critically hit. This effect can't occur more than once every minute.

Cheers, all!

The SWTOR Combat Team

 

The sixth piece is awful for watchmen and bad for the others, on some classes/specs, you use the skill with the 100% crit a few times each minute, but watchmen uses it ~12 times each minute (5 secs cooldown) so its pretty much a useless buff. What if the 6pc set do something useful like: 2x merciless slash resets the duration of force melt*, Increases precision duration by like 0.5 secs and for concentration it could increase the duration of force exhaustion and the cc immunity granted by it.

 

*(or force sweep, if something like this happens, force melt focus cost should always be 2.. also make force sweep viable for single target rotation! every other dot spec has something like this!)

 

Edit: here is a good one; 6pc: master strike final hit reset the duration of cauterize (so you must use it wisely or you still lose the free cauterize). For combat: 3rd hit reduces precision cooldown by 3 seconds and cost by 1. For concentration: 3rd hit make your next merciless slash cost -3 focus (or free, --just hyphotetical numbers---)

 

Or forget my ideas and just fix that watchmen rotation, master strike can't fit there most of the time, specially if you have some delay, maybe reduce master strike to 2.5 secs? (cauterize dot has a 100% chance to reduce the channel time of master strike by 0.5). This should be implemented regards of the set bonuses btw, with this change i would be happy with any other 6 pc bonus other than the current one. Edit: that master strike change with the 6pc set would be game changing for the watchmen rotation (guess it would be finally fixed/complete) and also really good for the other 2 specs + it seems very funny.

Edited by James_Mcturney
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The Sentinel needs some resistance to constant CC especially as a melee class. Borrowing a page from the Guardian's playbook would be welcome. I think immunity to stuns after force leap and finishing the CD on force leap with saber throw would be a welcome change. This would provide a nice buff to Combat especially which relies on a 3 sec Precision window.

These reforms would be very useful in a boss fight where I need to leap out of a circle, or defend the healer from yet another trash mob.

 

Proposed Level 60 Set Bonuses:

2-Piece: Zealous Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Additionally, Force Leap / Charge grants immunity to stuns knock-backs and all CC for 5 sec.

 

4-Piece: Saber Throw finishes the cooldown on Force Leap. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases movement speed by 15% and all damage dealt by 3% for 10 seconds.

 

6-Piece: Lowers the cool-down of Valorous Call by 30 seconds. Additionally, activating Ravage, Master Strike, Dual Saber Throw, or Twin Saber Throw will grant Weaponmaster's/Challenger's Critical Bonus making your next Vicious Throw, Furious Strike and Annihilate or Dispatch, Concentrated Slice and Merciless Slash critically hit. This effect can't occur more than once every minute.

 

Wow nice op set, although it shouldn't be a set bonus but a utility for pvpers! =) i'm a pve and i know its useless for us, you are not fooling anyone xD

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Marauders have way more problems than their set bonus right now. The other classes didn't get treated like we did so I get the feeling this thread is going to be pretty bitter. That said I don't see why you all are looking at changing the set bonuses. Honestly they are pretty much fine for all the AC's right now. Instead of focusing on the set bonuses that are all pretty beneficial to everyone right now I think you need to focus more on the class balance itself. The marauder community still hates the current form of annihilation and you completely ignored our pleas to fix it or even revert it to 2.10 when it was nearly perfect. PT/Assassin/Sorc are still pretty OP in pvp......I think you guys are focusing on the wrong stuff here.

 

This isn't meant as a criticism , but we should all remember that there are 3 specs, I think we should as a community have solidarity. We want to improve the class, not just one spec. Fixing any one spec does not fix marauders. Even though I am a carnage marauder I'm all for anni getting its do, but carnage and fury should be equally addressed. This is infinitely more important than the set bonus.

 

~ Grim

 

"The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

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Well, I wish this thread was a little less toxic. The combat team has asked a question, it is up to you if you want to answer it, but blaming Bioware and saying "Just fix Watchman already" and "You're gonna ignore us" is counterproductive. Anyways.... my thoughts...

 

2 Piece: This is actually pretty decent, I think this can be left as is.

4 Piece: This is kind of different in my opinion, because if my memory serves me correctly, this is very similar to our old 4 piece, minus the cool down reduction on Valorous Call, which is no longer there.

6 Piece: This is where the work is needed, in my honest opinion. The Auto Crit, is not particularly amazing for any Sentinel spec. In fact, it's terrible for Watchman. Merciless Slash is used every six seconds in Watchman, that's around 10 every minute.... 1 Crit out of 10 is not that big... especially when RNG can give that to you. For Concentration, It gives you a nice pretty number on your Concentrated Slice, but that's the only perk. For Combat, you get a nice Precision window, but once again, 1 Crit once only every minute, and one that you may get anyway, seems kind of underwhelming to me.

 

I can honestly suggest making the old 2 Piece Set Bonus the new 6 Piece. Why? Each Sentinel Discipline makes heavy use of Master Strike. While it doesn't hit as hard as it used to, it's still a heavy damaging ability, and for Watchman, gives us a Focus neutral or Focus positive filler that we can use on cool down. Since Master Strike is very very important to Sentinels, I think a damage boost to it would do wonders.

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Speaking from the Annihilaton point of view:

I believe the 6th tier set bonus is a bit out of place. I would advocate for a flat damage increase to Annihilation, if anything, rather than give it an autocrit once a minute. There might be other ways to go, but the current autocrit just doesn't seem right. It does give a damage increase, however slight it might be, but it introduces some awkwardness, unpredictability even over the course of long boss fights with adds, if you know what I mean. Wonder what Oofalong or Ardarell would say.

 

I think all 3 specs should be given a flat damage bonus. Anni is no more deserving of it than any of the other specs. Anni already does more than the other 2 overall, if anything it should be Carnage and Fury that get it (Which isn't to say Anni shouldn't get it. Merely that no spec has some sort of divine right to have greater damage than any other one.)

 

~ Grim

 

"The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

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This isn't meant as a criticism , but we should all remember that there are 3 specs, I think we should as a community have solidarity. We want to improve the class, not just one spec. Fixing any one spec does not fix marauders. Even though I am a carnage marauder I'm all for anni getting its do, but carnage and fury should be equally addressed. This is infinitely more important than the set bonus.

 

~ Grim

 

"The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

 

Carnage and fury are not completely broken like annihilation is.

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