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Predation is not utility? Hint - teams take them specifically for rated matches for Predation. Bloodthirst? Granted, I use Berserk more often, but Predation always must be available on the team's demand.

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Predation is not utility? Hint - teams take them specifically for rated matches for Predation. Bloodthirst? Granted, I use Berserk more often, but Predation always must be available on the team's demand.

Compare that to a shadow tank that can successfully delay several attackers until the team comes, that can ninja cap in VS and CW and turn the game around. Predation is only marginally useful as a speed boost in CW and HB. Bloodthirst has a 5 min cd. Other ACs can turn the tide of a match by delaying and harassing the other team. Sadly everyone wants to be the baddest mofo around instead of using their brains to win.

A good team of Marauders/Sentinels can be a pain, but I think we have the tools to take them down. They output a high DPS and can defend themselves, I can see why the defenses are there, they're a Melee DPS and therefore take on damage from AoEs. I don't think it makes them OP in PvP, but should a person be effective, they are difficult to take down, but arguably, it's the same for every one. I've come up again Marauders and Sentinels who aren't that difficult to take down. E.G. I was doing lowbie PvP last night on my Dirty Fighting Gunslinger and had no trouble taking down some Marauders, I lacked defensive capabilities but made up for it in CCs and movement impairments. I can slow him down, make my distance, get damage when he can't, then kick them in the nuts, blaster whip him then move out of the way. As a Sharpshooter (as I was previously) I found them more annoying, but then I was less mobile. Bear in mind also, I am a Dirty Fighting noob, I only respecced it for PvP last night.

On my Sage, I have CCs, defenses and heals to keep me alive, plus force speed and can take advantage of obstacles and like a Gunslinger, I can slow my foe down. If a Marauder comes after me, I can survive it. Not always, but some are more skilled and persistent than others.

When it comes to groups, I think Marauders are annoying because they can output a high DPS and can really work well if you've got a well focused group. Sometimes this is what happens and if they spot my Sage, he might not live that long. But I wonder if it's possible for another group of DPS to use a similar tactic and get similar results? Maybe a team of Dirty Fighting gunslingers, throws flash grenade to prevent nearby people attacking, kick their specific target in the nuts and shoot the crap out of them? If I can get 3 of my guild's gunslingers together I might try it.

Kite, have you tried to kite Ravage. The ability hits targets at 10+ meters away. Once it is successfully cast you take all the channeled dmg, no matter what the distance is. Oh and the whole uninterruptable part of the spell, I wish force lightning was uninterruptable.

What are you talking about? I rarely get a full Ravage on my opponents unless they're stunned/preoccupied/or CC'd in any way.

We can make our opponents immobile but we have to spec into it.

Compare that to a shadow tank that can successfully delay several attackers until the team comes, that can ninja cap in VS and CW and turn the game around. Predation is only marginally useful as a speed boost in CW and HB. Bloodthirst has a 5 min cd. Other ACs can turn the tide of a match by delaying and harassing the other team. Sadly everyone wants to be the baddest mofo around instead of using their brains to win.

While I get what you're saying, you're arguing broad-spectrum balancing. By that logic, ToR could be a glorified RPS game for all I care. Tank>DPS>Healer>Tank, melee DPS one-shooting stuff as soon as hey get into melee, because they don't have ranged skills and are vulnerable to kiting. This kind of balancing is for simpler combat systems. Fortunately, ToR is balanced on multiple levels, not just the "overall usefulness" (which, admittedly, suffers at times).

If match initiative is only "marginally useful" to you in rated matches, I don't know what is...

Lol so true.

 

People who are not 50, well geared (full WH, if not min/maxed), and playing RWZs consistently, should really not post under the pretense that they know anything about pvp balance.

only give input if you are in the 2% of people doing this.

Edit: You cannot and will not know anything about pvp until you meet the above. ALL levels below 50 and/or time spent without full BiS is nothing. it does not exist and you cannot take anything from it to use in the future.

Because maras are designed to kill. They don't have any other asset (utility, stealth...)

Snipers are also designed to kill, they dont do half the damage of a marauder in any spec. Sniper is the other "pure DD" AC and should do the same damage as marauder if you ask me. Now before you say "sniper has defensive stuff to add to a team", I do not think that matters all that much, marauders have a dps buff. Either bring the dps of marauders down to the lvl of the Sniper or bring the sniper up to the level of the marauder.

But Bioware will never nerf marauders/sentinels, because they are their bread and butter because everyone and their grandmothers play one.

Because people who know how to play a marauder really well can take people down in 3 seconds sometimes. It's a very humbling and at times humiliating experience . They rage and go strait to the forums to vent. As far as I'm concerned I don't care if they hate me and my class. I spent two month setting up my hot keys and programming my mouse so I performed fluidly when pvping. I never have to look down to choose my next move. I just keep and eye on my CDs and plan my next 2 to 3 moves ahead of time. I put in the time to work my class properly so as far as the hating of our class tells me I'm doing a good job on my part. If they do nerf marauders I don't care. I will adapt and L2P him with what I have. And FOTM doesn't apply to me. Been playing marauder since swtor came out. The reason I pick marauder was because I could fly through the air to my target lol.

Hope to see you pubs at Black Hole

Yoshimura Po5 server

Snipers are also designed to kill, they dont do half the damage of a marauder in any spec. Sniper is the other "pure DD" AC and should do the same damage as marauder if you ask me. Now before you say "sniper has defensive stuff to add to a team", I do not think that matters all that much, marauders have a dps buff. Either bring the dps of marauders down to the lvl of the Sniper or bring the sniper up to the level of the marauder.

 

But Bioware will never nerf marauders/sentinels, because they are their bread and butter because everyone and their grandmothers play one.

Err, that's simply not true. Sniper has amazing damage, as well as lots of ways to bring misery to the enemy. Leg Shot, two knockbacks (if specced) and long-range AoE mez are the first things that spring to mind. But spike damage is my favorite. Granted, I half-abandoned my not-even-full-BM-Sniper to gear a healer Sage, but, unless something drastically changed since 1.2, looking forward to gearing it once I'm done with Sage.

Snipers are also designed to kill, they dont do half the damage of a marauder in any spec.

If that's the case, then said snipers are awful. In RWZs, powertechs and snipers are always primary kill targets because of the ridiculous amount of damage they can do. Both of these classes SHOULD be top damage in most ranked warzones.

Because people who know how to play a marauder really well can take people down in 3 seconds sometimes. It's a very humbling and at times humiliating experience . They rage and go strait to the forums to vent. As far as I'm concerned I don't care if they hate me and my class. I spent two month setting up my hot keys and programming my mouse so I performed fluidly when pvping. I never have to look down to choose my next move. I just keep and eye on my CDs and plan my next 2 to 3 moves ahead of time. I put in the time to work my class properly so as far as the hating of our class tells me I'm doing a good job on my part. If they do nerf marauders I don't care. I will adapt and L2P him with what I have. And FOTM doesn't apply to me. Been playing marauder since swtor came out. The reason I pick marauder was because I could fly through the air to my target lol.

Hope to see you pubs at Black Hole

Yoshimura Po5 server

Because people who know how to play a marauder really well can take people down in 3 seconds sometimes. It's a very humbling and at times humiliating experience .<.........>

Can be true for every class, once they're geared, and the enemy is not.

But Bioware will never nerf marauders/sentinels, because they are their bread and butter because everyone and their grandmothers play one.

Yeah, BioWare is not going to nerf Sorcs... oh, sorry, I thought we were a couple of months ago...

I guess it's mostly because they have the highest perceived (damage output)/(time to kill) ratio. Compare it to a supposedly high damage spec like Scoundrels or Mercs (both specced for damage dealing, obviously). It's not even close, really. At least from my point of view.

Now, this doesn't inherently mean there's something wrong with the class. As an operative, I can tell you all about being nerfed without proper measurement of perfomance. You can tell people as many times as you want that, no, a youtube video from 3 patches ago does not help the discussion. That, yes, damage was overboard, but they should've tuned the class after they tuned stat mechanics like surge and relic stacking.

So, why do people hate marauders? Someone in this thread replied "Because they have 3 functioning trees, while others would be happy about one." and that might be part of it. Of course there's always exceptional players who achieve remarkable things with just about any AC out there. But assuming a somewhat randomized distribution of player ability across the ACs, it seems that the average person in average gear performs better when playing a marauder than playing a mercenary, for instance.

Again, can we derive from this that Marauders are broken? Not necessarily. It may mean other classes lack tools to do the job they're brought for. It may mean that some abilities are too much. But in the end, it's Bioware that decides these things, so because I have no idea of marauder mechanics, I just hope you guys aren't nerfed into oblivion so hard that a few months from now you get 3 posts in your subforum per day because everyone left.

Snipers are also designed to kill, they dont do half the damage of a marauder in any spec. Sniper is the other "pure DD" AC and should do the same damage as marauder if you ask me. Now before you say "sniper has defensive stuff to add to a team", I do not think that matters all that much, marauders have a dps buff. Either bring the dps of marauders down to the lvl of the Sniper or bring the sniper up to the level of the marauder.

 

But Bioware will never nerf marauders/sentinels, because they are their bread and butter because everyone and their grandmothers play one.

You're ranged.

I've played a Marauder to 32 and can safely say they are by far the best DPS class, I steamrolled straight to 32 within a few days, with Annihilation spec you get constant small self heals as well as speed boosts and some really strong attacks, compared to every other class i've played, I think it took half the time on a marauder. They may or may not need a fix, but they definitely need to get back on level with operatives.

Now that is just dumb and stupid, mara and sniper are on more or less same dmg output but, but the 2 classes have different strength, saying a mara should be more on lvl with and operative (who does less dmg then the sniper) makes no sense.

Because people who know how to play a marauder really well can take people down in 3 seconds sometimes.

Killing someone in 2 global cooldowns? I think not, nice try though

Kite, have you tried to kite Ravage. The ability hits targets at 10+ meters away. Once it is successfully cast you take all the channeled dmg, no matter what the distance is. Oh and the whole uninterruptable part of the spell, I wish force lightning was uninterruptable.

Don't know which Inquisitor advanced class you play but force lightning is un-interruptable with 3 stacks of harness darkness. (Darkness Assassin tree.) The whole thing about Ravage, since you mentioned force lightning, guessing you have force speed, is to speed away from it or CC, it's not hard.

Apart from Annihilation there is on more great spec for PvP. Every good Rage Marauder will know that when stacking surge and power you get a character that hits like a truck.

Fully geared with WH grade power+surge mods, enhancements, relics a Marauder/Juggernaut in rage spec can do 5500+ crits with the following rotation:

Force Charge--> Force Choke/Crush--> Shockwave x4--> Smash. This will leave many oponents a damaged wreck wich then you can finish with your other skills.

But it's not OP If you miss with smash it's over unles you can get in range before Shockwave cools down you are dead. Good playes who can predict this coming can escape but they have a split second to do it or they take the mostrous hit of the Marauder/Juggernaut

Because maras are designed to kill. They don't have any other asset (utility, stealth...). People don't qq about other classes even though they may as reliably help to win a game but they get mad when a Mara ROFLstomps them. People think that pvp = deathmatch.

No stealth huh... and no other asset other than dps. I've seen maras hold off teams from capping a node just as long as a tanksin with their ridiculous force camo, UR and aoe mez. Not to mention they are the only ones that can withstand huttball fire traps.

And yes predation is awesome for PvP, if you think that isn't utility then you are being naieve.

UR is a PvP ability alright - and I don't think it's OP, personally. It's the number of defenses that can be chained that needs a look. Why Camo, originally a stealth\gapcloser\escape\channel break skill, became a shield wall which is better baseline than tanks have talented is beyond me, however. Did just fine pre-1.2 without it.

*IF* UR is a PvP ability - it's not one that belongs on a class with already solid defensive abilities and this much DPS. I can think of only one class that should have anything remotely like this and it's sorc/sage.

*IF* UR is a PvP ability - it's not one that belongs on a class with already solid defensive abilities and this much DPS. I can think of only one class that should have anything remotely like this and it's sorc/sage.

UR has PvP design oozing all over it. A perfect "last ditch effort" mechanic, perfectly suited for a DPS class. And that's exactly why I think that other Marauder defenses should be toned down - namely, the shield wall component on Camo, and, perhaps, either uptime, or mitigation bonus of CloP.

Still, need to be careful not to overdo it. Marauders *are* comparatively squishy outside cooldowns. Not even mentioning vulnerability to CC. But the number, the accessibility and the chainability of those cooldowns, combined with the damage potential, seem to be the core of the problem.