http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4098530#post4098530

 

The thread above was started in the Sorc healer forum but I believe that it needs to be brought here to bring attention to the issue we and it seems others are experiancing in 8 man KP nightmare on jarg/sorno. No matter how we work the encounter the tank on jarg is taking massive hits 10-12k+.

 

We have tried cooldown timing, tank swaps and every strat we can find to make the encounter work but nothing seems to help. We are aware of the debuff appiled by jarg and the group cleansing ect. Something just seems extremely out of balance. Pre 1.2 this fight was hard but doable post 1.2 the 8man encounter seems like its doing damage to the tank that you would see in the 16 man Nightmare.

 

Both tanks we are using for this encounter are fully rakata geared Juggers being healed by 2 full rakata geared Sorcs. Again I understand Sorcs took a slight hit to healing with 1.2 but it seems this encounter is just not possible any longer on 8 man.

Is the Jarg debuff coinciding with happy happy Rail Shot time? Because our group had that issue pre-1.2 however we haven't run it since the patch update so I can't say if there were any significant changes. I do know that our healers had a hell of a time with this fight even before 1.2 and I was pretty much rolling cooldowns on my VG tank and we still had to have a sage healer aoe plus a gunslinger shield to fill in on CDs for us to clear it. I don't think we managed a clean NiM kill of these guys once in any event.

We have no problem in HM with the same exact group. I can understand NiM being harder but with everyone out gearing the instance it still seems impossible to manage. This is Pre rail shot btw . When we did manage to get to that phase it was tank insta pwn. Edited April 23, 2012 by Thegriss

We have done this fight 8man NiM post 1.2 and can't say we have had any major issues with it, if anything NiM seemed to feel a bit easier than before, but that is most likely a gear connection. Generally I save any major cooldowns if I start to get too low, which is normally after getting the fire debuff, but remember to make sure dots are cleared.

The problem with this fight is the debuff makes no tactical sense. Why even state you're taking more damage from fire if it can't be cleansed or avoided or reliably swapped out of? Might as well just make him hit like a mac truck as a matter of course. Goes to show the progression of logical fight mechanics from raid to raid, since the two boss EC fights all have reliable, understandable mechanics you can plan for and respond to in order to mitigate.

 

We've killed the fight with our main operations group, but when we brought in backup healers they couldn't keep me up (in full Rakata/Campaign/Black Hole gear).

Edited April 23, 2012 by DeimosAmon

We did this on NiM for the fist time since 1.2 last night and did not have any issues. Shadow tank on Jorg, Guardian on Sorno. 2 sage healers and 2 commando dps as spot healers.

I've had to spot/off-heal this as a BH Merc Arsenal.

The 2 healers could not keep the tank up during those few massive hit timeframes.

 

Out Sorc is having problems where his casts take longer than the purple circles are dropping.

Do sorcs have to spec alacrity in order to finish out their casts properly now or are we doing something wrong with our sorc healers?

We had a similar issue. Full rakata group heading into NM Kragga. Down the Rancor before enrage timer. Wiped three or four times to J&S. The debuff plus rail shot is waxing our tanks. If we do hold on the sages our out of energy at about 50 percent.

 

Feels like with the med pac and other class changes they need to possibly retune this fight? I don't know.

I've had to spot/off-heal this as a BH Merc Arsenal.

The 2 healers could not keep the tank up during those few massive hit timeframes.

 

Out Sorc is having problems where his casts take longer than the purple circles are dropping.

Do sorcs have to spec alacrity in order to finish out their casts properly now or are we doing something wrong with our sorc healers?

 

We also had this issue. The tank on jarg being at full health could be killed in the time it takes me to cast a 1.7 sec purple puddle. Something is plan wrong with this fight.

We also had this issue. The tank on jarg being at full health could be killed in the time it takes me to cast a 1.7 sec purple puddle. Something is plan wrong with this fight.

 

Didn't they change Sorc/Sage AoE heals so you don't get a big heal at the beginning, and instead just the graduate HoTs?

 

I would think casting an AoE on a tank near a boss doing AoE damage wouldn't be very force efficient because only the tank may benefit.

Didn't they change Sorc/Sage AoE heals so you don't get a big heal at the beginning, and instead just the graduate HoTs?

 

I would think casting an AoE on a tank near a boss doing AoE damage wouldn't be very force efficient because only the tank may benefit.

 

If you drop a circle correctly the front of it is at the tanks back and the sorc is on the oppisite side. This way you avoid the mob damage and both players get the benefit of the circle. The circle is not ment to keep the tank alive it just helps mitigate some damage while allowing myself to use consuption. The point i was trying to make is a full HP tank died in the time it took to cast a 1.7 sec spell.

Didn't they change Sorc/Sage AoE heals so you don't get a big heal at the beginning, and instead just the graduate HoTs?

 

I would think casting an AoE on a tank near a boss doing AoE damage wouldn't be very force efficient because only the tank may benefit.

 

Firstly, the big heal at the beginning was never intended, and only happened for Sages. But the AoE heal is very beneficial in the phase where Jarg and Sorno group up in the middle and grapple people in.

Tried this fight couple of weeks ago 8man(nightmare) with a sorc/Merc Healer, according to askmrrobot we did 2.1m(Sorc: 1.2m|Merc: 0.8m) healing untill they enraged at 3%, and killed us basically instantly. This was when we decided to make a tank switch, we didnt try it though, because the raid ended then

I have a direct feedback to this 8-man NiM (We didn't have problems with enrage timers or whatever... Was a pure healing problem).

 

Done on 1.2.0c with a Shadow Tank on Columi/Rakata (More of the former thant the later) on Jarg... Was a tight fight but doable (I was the Shadow tank and I was reserving my HS to trigger it after Jarg spike) and we one-shoted them (In theory, we were expecting a "bad" NiM run because I was forced to go tank and I'm mainly one of the top DPSers).

 

Tried to do on 1.2.1 this Thurdsday with 2xfull Rakata JG tanks (The one on Jarg fully tweaked and with as much augment slots as possible). Wiped and wiped and wiped with the JG on Jarg always dying... Had to swap to Hard mode.

 

Then we reached Fabricator (No issues on Foreman NiM) on NiM and got the patience to actually reclean on the trash after each wipe (Thanks BW to add even more anoying bugs).

 

Same situation... on 1.2.0c with an undergeared Shadow Tank we one-shotted without problems. Yesterday (On Thurdsday session we were so pissed that we stoped after Foreman) was a constant wipe fest because of tanks dying... Pure lack of healing. Again swap to HM and one-shot... We were so pissed again that we didn't even bother with Karaga on NiM... We just wanted to get the hell out of there.

 

 

The healers are full rakata Commando & Sage were the same on both Weekly runs... Only 1 of the tanks swaped (In theory, past week, with decent runs with the worst geared tank) and, OFC, the 2 intermediate game patches.

 

The pattern is there, ofc, Self Healing vs Defense Avoiding attacks... But if it's this tight... Why the same team sees such a radically different results on content that was on farm before?

 

EDIT: Wish I had "solid proof" as like the healing/tanking logs of both weeks... Will have next week to see exactly were the source of this diametrally different experience is.

 

EDIT2: Just to clarify, before 1.2 with less gear we got KP NiM on farm, btw. And we didn't notice anything strange with me as "backup" tank on the run after 1.2 hitted.

Edited April 28, 2012 by ragamer

Can anyone help me out with a strat for this fight? We are having problems with our Jugg tank on Jarg taking massive damage after getting the fire damage debuff. Do we need to do a tank switch after the debuff? Any tips, tricks, advice is greatly appreciated.

Can anyone help me out with a strat for this fight? We are having problems with our Jugg tank on Jarg taking massive damage after getting the fire damage debuff. Do we need to do a tank switch after the debuff? Any tips, tricks, advice is greatly appreciated.

 

My guild immediately swaps tanks whenever the Jarg tank gets the "increase fire damage" debuff in Nightmare Mode. That thing is no joke.

Have you tried using a shadow or sin with resilience on that debuff?

 

I absolutely love this fight, one of my favorite in the game to dps. We do it with two commando healers, two ranged on Jarg and two melee on sorno and have it on farm now. It's just fun as a dps due to the mechanics.

Our tanks were both Juggs. Worried about tank swaps cuz taunts are at a premium already with carbonized phase and such. Plus the debuff seems to come very frequently, so we'd be swapping constantly and burning taunts.

Our tanks were both Juggs. Worried about tank swaps cuz taunts are at a premium already with carbonized phase and such. Plus the debuff seems to come very frequently, so we'd be swapping constantly and burning taunts.

 

If you're swapping tanks for the debuff, you don't need to worry about taunts for the carbonizer probe phase, as Jarg will almost certainly go after whichever tank isn't carbonized (because both tanks should have a HUGE threat lead on everyone else due to repeated taunt boosting).

 

Yes, the debuff does come very frequently, and you have to switch a ton.

Edited July 20, 2012 by CitizenFry

shadow tanks and fast cleanses makes the fight trivial, cleared it on nightmare at the begining of the week, 1 shot J&sorno. to be fair, it was me and another full burster on jarg, we stayed 20% ahead of sorno and had all dps rotate over to nuke him at the railshot phase, sorno with vengeance is a pansy and easily destroyed.

Thanks for the advice. We will give it a shot. Also curious if you dps both equally till dead or if you shift all dps to

Jarg at 40% or so?

Thanks for the advice. We will give it a shot. Also curious if you dps both equally till dead or if you shift all dps to

Jarg at 40% or so?

 

can't remember the exact percentage off the top of my head, but as soon as railshots started we shifted all but one DPS to jarg, one dps stayed on sorno for complete interrupts. jarg was nuked down asap

Honestly I've never noticed the railshots (maybe I'm not paying enough attention, or someone else in the group is doing something to neutralize them). We usually DPS evenly all the way down. You definitely don't want to leave Jarg for last, he hits like a truck when enraged. Haven't experienced Sorno's enrage, but the claims of "pansy" don't surprise me, so much of his output is the Unload, and you should be interrupting that.

Too lazy to read all (in case anyone else said this)

 

We encountered issues post 1.2 with having Sorc healers in our group. Maybe it was just the player or maybe it was the 'nerf' to the class, don't know. I don't play a Sorc healer. However we did switch to an Op healer and Merc healer and usually clear it in about 45-50minutes with our premade weekly now.

 

I did read that someone did it with 2 sage healers, so I don't have any idea. I just know that dropping our sorcs for different classes post 1.2 helped us out.

Assassin tanks will have a way easier time on Jarg than either a PT/Jugg. The majority of Jarg's damage is Tech/Elemental, so it ignores armor and defense/shield. Self heals + the ability to resist all tech every 45 seconds is a huge advantage.