if a player tanks some pugs, he will get across a lot of things, different players and repeating patterns in players behavior. in the end he will probably hear always the same stuff.

in particular he will be almost always paired with another tank, which from what i found out, tend to want to do always the same things and don't want to learn anything new, once what they know seems to work.

which is translated in doing always the same role in all the ops bosses, despite of the tanks are two.

these following examples are based on my experience in pug tanking in the last two or so years.

General

- let me main tank: you will hear this a lot, doesn't mind gear or experience, it's just who has the biggest HP pool and generally raidwide accepted. even in fights where tanks do the same things( tfb kephess f.e.)

- i take the boss: in tank and spank fights with adds it's the easier thing to do, so the mighty main tank with so many HP actually decides to do the easiest of the tank jobs, this is fun, especially in fights like master and blaster, where i would espect to hear '' i take the small one'' from a so called main tank..

- guard the healer: another big classical, despite you are aggroing everything really good and healers are sleeping, there won't be any pull until you guard the green goo spammer.

- taunting back trash or boss: this is unpleasant..you taunt a mob to split the damage, a boss to force a swap being ignored or to have it in a better position..and they get immediately taunted back, like you are a annoying dps.

and now boss specific examples, i admit i give this some help asking everytime ''which one you want to take?'' or ''how you want to do it?'':

most of the fights in sm are tank and spank or with unsignificant tanks mechanics, and in the last year the overgearing was so rampant, that a lot of mechanics have been cheesed and so lost, but some remain evergreens of pug tanking..

TFB

dread guards: ''i take kel'sara'' then taunts back with 30 stacks.

SNV

thrasher: ''i take the boss''.

olok: ''i take the boss''.

warlords: ''you take sunder'', proceeds to taunt back on thchuk even if at 10% hp.

DF

draxus: ''i take the boss'' and be grateful if you get the aoe taunt on last wave to aggro the guardians and let you taunt back one.

grob: ''i take the boss'' and the he stands still ignoring magnets, or ''i take the adds''.

corruptor: ''i take the boss'' so blame is on you if dps slack on the adds and incompetent healers die.

brontes: guess what, ''i take the boss, you do clones''.

DP

bestia: ''i take the boss''

tyrans: this is the most randomly done boss in the whole history in my opinion ao there's no trend here:p .

calphayus: i usually was sent in the future on the last phase, it seems nobody wants to take the responsibility to position the boss under the cyrcle.

raptus: tanked on one of the crystals, you cause wipes if you move it an inch and you just have to hope to not get knocked out of the platform.

coucil: my favorite..i've never tanked calphayus until i've done it HM.

Ravagers

sparky: ''i take the boss''

bulo: taking the barrels in sm causes wipes, even if in hm i do it all the time :confused:

master and blaster: i've never tanked blaster..i do at least 2-3 pugs weekly tanking..

coratanni: i've never tanked cora..only pearl

ToS

malaphar: taunting the boss to relieve a 20 stacks tank is a jerk move apparently and so the boss is promplty taunted back..you know just in case something goes wrong, but no.

SS: ''i take U2'' and here a good 50% of tanks actually taunts U1 from you when targeted, while like 10% or less of U2 tanks takes the bomb. and when tanking U2 there's a good % of U1 tanks taunting back immediately.

Lurker: ''can you respec?''

Nothing new, remember going Fortress NiM with a pugged tank who had 54k hp and taunted nefra all the time, making it nearly impossible for the cotank not to get stacks.Right before the groupwide hit he taunted again, but instead of running to the place where the group usually stacks he didnt move at all and got one-shotted. His words were : " Bad Healers can't even top up a bis tank". I the cotank just lolled at his commendation gear. He was sure he was experienced in Fortress NIM and killed everything on another account.

This was pre 3.0

It's fun being the off tank on blaster, pulling threat on the 2nd GCD (even when doing a low threat opener) and cleaving the raid.

You could follow up with "guard plz" and see how those healers demanding guard themselves respond to a tank asking for guard.

I usually guard the healer, but that is because I don't think of dps as a threat usually and I rather have the 5% dmg reduction on my healers. If the dps pulls agro, guard or not, then I did something wrong.

Though sometimes I just slap it on a strong dps.

master and blaster: i've never tanked blaster..i do at least 2-3 pugs weekly tanking..

coratanni: i've never tanked cora..only pearl

This is for the best, since Master and Pearl actually require paying attention, unlike SM Blaster/Cora.

ToS

It's fun being the off tank on blaster, pulling threat on the 2nd GCD (even when doing a low threat opener) and cleaving the raid.

To be fair, if I'm ever in a TOS pug I'll always want to take unit 2 on sword squadron just in case the other tank gets himself killed, you can solotank if the unit 1 tank dies but if the unit 2 tank does it's a wipe

Other than that, I always let the other tank tell me what role they want me to do. It's always nice to get to be lazy on fights like sparky and coratanni if the other tank feels like playing with adds/pearl though!

You pug TOS!? You're a braver man than I am.

 

actually i do it weekly and on multiple toons..the only thing you need is the time to cycle through all the dps bads that join.

i also always ask for what the other tank preferes, since i'm comfortable with all the roles, but yes, it's too good when you can be lazy..

I usually guard the healer, but that is because I don't think of dps as a threat usually and I rather have the 5% dmg reduction on my healers. If the dps pulls agro, guard or not, then I did something wrong.

Though sometimes I just slap it on a strong dps.

If your DPS can't pull aggro off of you, they aren't very good.

If your DPS can't pull aggro off of you, they aren't very good.

Especially with the new 4pc bonus, but even without, there's no reason for dps to pull off you on any tank class, at least for long enough to take an attack from the boss (nothing wrong with waiting for target of target to flash to someone else before taunting early in the fight except in very limited and specific situations).

I usually guard the healer, but that is because I don't think of dps as a threat usually and I rather have the 5% dmg reduction on my healers. If the dps pulls agro, guard or not, then I did something wrong.

Though sometimes I just slap it on a strong dps.

So.... you throw your guard on the lowest threat producing role in the game.... because of 5% damage reduction. lol ok. I can think of 2 fights that I actually needed to guard the healers and that was on the last phase of the Terror fight and Corrupter Zero.

The only time I really care what the other tank is doing is when they clearly lack situational awareness and positioning skills. Can't tell you how many times I just let an under geared tank take the lead to let them feel special and they threaten to wipe the raid by facing bosses towards the raid group.

Also, I've pulled threat off of tanks on accident before. I even had one that was so bad I had to pop cloak to wipe my aggro to keep from pulling aggro.

Also, I've pulled threat off of tanks on accident before. I even had one that was so bad I had to pop cloak to wipe my aggro to keep from pulling aggro.

that's easier on some bosses..i tend to stay in a spot compatible with not wiping the raid..

that's easier on some bosses..i tend to stay in a spot compatible with not wiping the raid..

That would be an option, but the time I'm thinking I had a debuff where the boss could one shot me if I got hit.

Sounds like a really smug, elitist post. You should probably stick to guild only runs.

nah, i've a lot of successful pug runs. these are just things that tend to repeat when i tank pugs..i didn't notice the harsh criticism you saw in my post..

So.... you throw your guard on the lowest threat producing role in the game.... because of 5% damage reduction. lol ok. I can think of 2 fights that I actually needed to guard the healers and that was on the last phase of the Terror fight and Corrupter Zero.

Thats actually what good tanks do. Putting guard on players that receive the most dmg because dps should never pull aggro.

So.... you throw your guard on the lowest threat producing role in the game.... because of 5% damage reduction. lol ok. I can think of 2 fights that I actually needed to guard the healers and that was on the last phase of the Terror fight and Corrupter Zero.

Like I said, if the dps pull off me then I did something wrong.

I am confident that I can keep agro off any dps, so why bother guarding them for threat?

So if the threat component is not what I used guard for, then what's left? 5%-8% (Shadow tank) damage reduction.

So I guard (melee) dps for a few fights, but that is because they tend to receive a lot of damage during certain fights (torque anyone?).

Like I said, if the dps pull off me then I did something wrong.

I am confident that I can keep agro off any dps, so why bother guarding them for threat?

 

So if the threat component is not what I used guard for, then what's left? 5%-8% (Shadow tank) damage reduction.

So I guard (melee) dps for a few fights, but that is because they tend to receive a lot of damage during certain fights (torque anyone?).

8% of a flame vent or even a misplaced scatter blaster ( on watchman sometimes i tend to land in bad spots) is still a considerable amount of damage...

Thats actually what good tanks do. Putting guard on players that receive the most dmg because dps should never pull aggro.

Yes... in pvp. In PVE anyone out side of 10 meters DOES NOT get the 5% damage reduction. So no it's not what good tanks do. Good tanks swap taunts to highest threat DPS to help with aggro....

Like I said, if the dps pull off me then I did something wrong.

I am confident that I can keep agro off any dps, so why bother guarding them for threat?

 

So if the threat component is not what I used guard for, then what's left? 5%-8% (Shadow tank) damage reduction.

So I guard (melee) dps for a few fights, but that is because they tend to receive a lot of damage during certain fights (torque anyone?).

As I said to the guy above you. The 5% Damage reduction DOES NOT extend past 10m. So if you have a healer that is standing inside 10 meters he is make life a hell of a lot more complicated for himself as well as the melee DPS. If a boss mechanic has a random target ability then Healers/Ranged DPS standing in melee make it so Melee DPS get less DPS time on the boss than they normally would just so a healer or Ranged DPS could get a 5% damage reduction.... yeah.... I think not.

Yes... in pvp. In PVE anyone out side of 10 meters DOES NOT get the 5% damage reduction. So no it's not what good tanks do. Good tanks swap taunts to highest threat DPS to help with aggro....

You have it backwards, the within 10 (or is it 15?) meters requirement only applies to the PvP portion of guard, where you absorb 50% of damage taken. The 5% DR and the threat drop apply no matter how far you are from your guarded target.

As I said to the guy above you. The 5% Damage reduction DOES NOT extend past 10m. So if you have a healer that is standing inside 10 meters he is make life a hell of a lot more complicated for himself as well as the melee DPS. If a boss mechanic has a random target ability then Healers/Ranged DPS standing in melee make it so Melee DPS get less DPS time on the boss than they normally would just so a healer or Ranged DPS could get a 5% damage reduction.... yeah.... I think not.

Again, this is wrong, the DR does apply past 10 meters. Test it yourself, find a mob that hits for a set damage value, then guard someone and see how hard it hits when standing within 10 meters, then guard them and see how hard it hits outside of 10 meters.

Nope you're right, I forgot about the 50% < 15m part of guard for some reason. Still putting guard on someone for the sole purpose of a dam reduction is pointless. I mean I can see it for last phase of terror since threat doesn't mean any thing. But other than that, 5% in a Operation environment isn't going to save you.

Also, if you can get away with not using guard on certain DPS classes... well then you must have some really bad DPS. Personal experience I have always guarded DPS classes because the threat drop was needed. Even with going through a taunt rotation and less than 60 sec in the fight some classes have so much front loaded burst that the guard is actually needed for a threat reduction not a damage reduction. Also, most RL's (Raid Leaders) call for raid DPS CD's at the start of the fight. So you as a tank have to deal with all those adrenals being popped on top of the Raid CD's and personal buffs beyond that. And heaven forbid they get a lucky string of crits in there.

Guard by and large is pointless anyways, you can get by without it. The best benefit it provides is still threat reduction, but if you're 100% confident in your threat, that can be put towards DR for whoever needs it most, but the DR benefit is minimal as its multiplicative and not additive DR.

The best use of guard is understanding exactly what the ability does, and utilizing that in the best way for you personally on a case by case basis. Not debating whether it should always go on a healer or a DPS

Hell, there are fights as a Jugg where I will purposely guard the other tank in order to get a speed boost (I think Cartel Warlords having to kite Sunder is the last time I've done that). Just use it in the way you feel best helps you.

Oh don't get me wrong, I've done some wacky crap on my Jugg to get through a boss fight. Even interceding the other tank just to boost his DR to help the healers out.

But I'm just saying from my personal experiences, my guard swaps are between the DPS. I only have about 1-2 maybe 3 fights that I guard the healers to try and reduce their threat to the over whelming amount of adds the boss may have. But I never value guard (outside of pvp) for the DR portion.