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Why no imperial trooper


alienstalker

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I didnt read through all the post ( shame shame i know) but it seems that alot of you just want that look of imperial trooper. Pay $150 for the CE and you can buy it from the Imperial VIP vendor in the CE lounge.
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Mayhap Imperial Trooper could be introduced as a class in an expansion?

 

TOR is my first MMO, but I was under the impression that major expansion packs tend to include 1 or 2 new classes for the game.

 

If in a year they release an expansion pack that includes 1 new class per faction, then Imperial Trooper could easily be one of them. The other might be, for example, maybe some kind of devoted healer class, like Republic Medic or something like that?

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I'll be honest, I know next to nothing about the EU. I know enough about the EU to get the impression that it has grown into a confused mess of variable quality. So, I'm going to base my argument on what I do know - the movies. Those sixth movies of ... erm ... variable quality.

 

My point though is this; while there has been a lot of talk about whether the Imperials should have troopers, nobody has asked about (what is to me) the elephant in the room - why on earth do the Republic have troopers?

 

I mean, aren't troopers the bad guys? I watched New Hope back in the 70's and Empire in the early 1980's and loved them. I mean really loved them. To me the bad guys in Star Wars meant black armoured Sith Lords, Officers in grey uniforms and white armoured troopers. It's become a classic image and is deeply ingrained in our collective culture now. Even my 71 year old mother knows a Storm Trooper when she sees one (although she probably doesn't see one that often).

 

Now, if all I knew was the Original Trilogy, I'd be looking at SWTOR's Empire and be thinking, "Black armoured Sith - check. Grey uniformed officers - check. White armoured troopers - check. But, huh? What? they're on the wrong side!! The white armoured troopers are the good guys? Really?"

 

"Aha!" say the true fans though. "The white armoured guys started off as the god guys. Haven't you seen Attack of the Clones? Haven't you seen the Clone Wars? That's why the Republic have troopers."

 

Yeah but, I don't think that makes sense. I know there are 6 movies, not three. I also know that white armoured troopers appear in 5 out of the 6 movies. I also know that in 3 out of those 5 movies they are most definitely the bad guys. Yet, when you think about it, weren't they always the bad guys? They were definitely the bad guys in Revenge of the Sith because they killed all the jedi and made it possible for Palpatine to become Emperor. Can you really say they were not the bad guys at the start of that film? I think it's more a case of we didn't know they were the bad guys. In fact they are the same troopers as in Attack of the Clones.

 

Those aren't good guys! They're enemy sleeper agents! Those white armoured chaps were always the bad guys, it just took us 1 and a half movies for us to find out their true nature.

 

.. and another thing; at the beginning of Attack of the Clones, the Republic has no army. It has no troopers. It was Palpatine who secretly caused the army of clones to be created. He didn't corrupt something pre-existant in the Republic. He created something new and deadly, devious and erm, Sithy.

 

So, I'm left thinking that Bioware's mistake with troopers was making them a Republic class instead of an Imperial Class. Would it not have made more sense to assume that in making a clone army, Palpatine was creating something that the old Sith Empire had? After all, he also reinstated grey uniformed officers and a black armoured Sith Lord.

Edited by Crito
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Minority of who?

 

People who want another class added into the game?

People who play SWTOR?

 

In order to be a minority that means you have to be a smaller group then someone else. But you don't say what the other group is so that comment is a bit of nonsense.

 

Considering the number of times I've seen an Imperial Trooper class be requested, there's actually a fair amount of interest in adding one. In fact I'd say it's the single most asked for class to be added into the game.

 

Out of 1.3 million people and you consider this to be a good showing of majority? There should never be an exact mirror class implemented, I'd rather see something actually creative.

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@ Crito: It's a good point. I reckon it's mostly because Bounty Hunters have more iconically been part of the bad-guy team (hunting for Solo, in Episode II, Cad Bane, etc.). Meanwhile, the target audience watching the Clone Wars has probably gotten used to seeing the troopers as the good guys and with the Republic (Rex, Cody, etc.) and so want to plsy after them.
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I'll be honest, I know next to nothing about the EU. I know enough about the EU to get the impression that it has grown into a confused mess of variable quality. So, I'm going to base my argument on what I do know - the movies. Those sixth movies of ... erm ... variable quality.

 

My point though is this; while there has been a lot of talk about whether the Imperials should have troopers, nobody has asked about (what is to me) the elephant in the room - why on earth do the Republic have troopers?

 

I mean, aren't troopers the bad guys? I watched New Hope back in the 70's and Empire in the early 1980's and loved them. I mean really loved them. To me the bad guys in Star Wars meant black armoured Sith Lords, Officers in grey uniforms and white armoured troopers. It's become a classic image and is deeply ingrained in our collective culture now. Even my 71 year old mother knows a Storm Trooper when she sees one (although she probably doesn't see one that often).

 

Now, if all I knew was the Original Trilogy, I'd be looking at SWTOR's Empire and be thinking, "Black armoured Sith - check. Grey uniformed officers - check. White armoured troopers - check. But, huh? What? they're on the wrong side!! The white armoured troopers are the good guys? Really?"

 

"Aha!" say the true fans though. "The white armoured guys started off as the god guys. Haven't you seen Attack of the Clones? Haven't you seen the Clone Wars? That's why the Republic have troopers."

 

Yeah but, I don't think that makes sense. I know there are 6 movies, not three. I also know that white armoured troopers appear in 5 out of the 6 movies. I also know that in 3 out of those 5 movies they are most definitely the bad guys. Yet, when you think about it, weren't they always the bad guys? They were definitely the bad guys in Revenge of the Sith because they killed all the jedi and made it possible for Palpatine to become Emperor. Can you really say they were not the bad guys at the start of that film? I think it's more a case of we didn't know they were the bad guys. In fact they are the same troopers as in Attack of the Clones.

 

Those aren't good guys! They're enemy sleeper agents! Those white armoured chaps were always the bad guys, it just took us 1 and a half movies for us to find out their true nature.

 

.. and another thing; at the beginning of Attack of the Clones, the Republic has no army. It has no troopers. It was Palpatine who secretly caused the army of clones to be created. He didn't corrupt something pre-existant in the Republic. He created something new and deadly, devious and erm, Sithy.

 

So, I'm left thinking that Bioware's mistake with troopers was making them a Republic class instead of an Imperial Class. Would it not have made more sense to assume that in making a clone army, Palpatine was creating something that the old Sith Empire had? After all, he also reinstated grey uniformed officers and a black armoured Sith Lord.

 

 

Well The Republic always had an army up until the Ruusan Reformation which kind of disbanded the Jedi as a Military force and the army in general I think. I'm not completely sure myself I just looked into it briefly to figure out why the republic didn't have an army before the clones came into being.

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I have to say that both sides make good points. And I'm not really decided on which option would be best. I mean, sure it would be nice to for once not be the super awesome elite squad commander. But then again... regular grunt's don't see action every moment like in the game. (which is ok, becuz nobody is going to play a game where you spend 7 hours on guard duty and nothing happens.)

 

But maybe there could be a compromise. Say you're commander or XO of a squad...but you're not super high ranking spec forces squad like Havoc. You and your squad would go on missions and you would have to make important decisions and strategic moves as Commanding Officer. I'm just thinking that maybe a middle ground could be found here.

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It just seems a bizarre design decision to me, for the Republic to get a soldier type character, but not the Imperials. Once you get below the level of Sith in Imperial society, the Empire is essentially a military dictatorship - but you can't actually play a member of its military? Weird.

 

If Bioware do add more classes later, then I hope they will consider some kind of military option for the Empire. It does not have to mirror the Republic Trooper.

 

I'd like to see some kind of assault trooper, kind of like a space marine. It could be an expert in boarding ships and close quarter fighting armed with a vibrosword in one hand and a pistol in the other perhaps. Give him imperial trooper style armour, a set of companions that are his squad members and a ship, similar in style to the fury (the only really Imperial looking ship in the game imho) and I'd be a very happy player. Maybe the mirror class for the Republic could be a wookie, then everyone is happy.

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OK, so you wanna be an Imperial Trooper. Let's check the credentials:

 

First, the original Republic Trooper. A member of Havoc Squad, the renowned best SpecForce Squad in the galaxy. Meaning that, basically, one would have to put up with being 2nd place. It's in no way heroic to be 2nd choice in the galaxy, who would want that? BW designed the stories with the being "heroic" in mind, every character is unique to the TOR-Universe and one of the best of his kind, some being THE best.

 

So now let's check Imperial SpecForces. Not that much to talk about, really, but anyway.

We have, number 1, Shadow Fist. Former rivals of the Havoc defectors, one of the best teams the Empire has. Status: All members KIA by an unfinished Havoc Squad.

Number 2: Pierce's BlackOps squad, aid in taking down the War Trust. Status: All but one KIA, surviving member reassigned to serve a Lord of the Sith personally.

Number 3 is Delta Squad. Serving on Ilum, Delta was originially supposed to take down the rayshields of a Republic base. Status: KIA.

There is also the Imperial Guard and the Emperor's guard, allegedly the best the Empire has to offer. Most members encountered throughout the game are KIA and fail to accomplish their goals.

There are also many other SpecOps soldiers encountered, but they aren't really worth mentioning, as they are either cannon fodder or only appear once and never again. Seems to me that the Empire needs to improve their training.

 

So basically, my point is, it's not really worth it story-wise.

 

Oh and also, it's not "Smugglers are Republic and BH are Empire", it's lore-wise that ONE special Smuggler and BH fight for the Republic and Empire respectively, kinda explained in the backstory. You have to see it's not about all Smugglers and Bounty Hunters, but about certain individuals who find themselves in a tough spot.

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OK, so you wanna be an Imperial Trooper. Let's check the credentials:

 

First, the original Republic Trooper. A member of Havoc Squad, the renowned best SpecForce Squad in the galaxy. Meaning that, basically, one would have to put up with being 2nd place. It's in no way heroic to be 2nd choice in the galaxy, who would want that? BW designed the stories with the being "heroic" in mind, every character is unique to the TOR-Universe and one of the best of his kind, some being THE best.

 

So now let's check Imperial SpecForces. Not that much to talk about, really, but anyway.

We have, number 1, Shadow Fist. Former rivals of the Havoc defectors, one of the best teams the Empire has. Status: All members KIA by an unfinished Havoc Squad.

Number 2: Pierce's BlackOps squad, aid in taking down the War Trust. Status: All but one KIA, surviving member reassigned to serve a Lord of the Sith personally.

Number 3 is Delta Squad. Serving on Ilum, Delta was originially supposed to take down the rayshields of a Republic base. Status: KIA.

There is also the Imperial Guard and the Emperor's guard, allegedly the best the Empire has to offer. Most members encountered throughout the game are KIA and fail to accomplish their goals.

There are also many other SpecOps soldiers encountered, but they aren't really worth mentioning, as they are either cannon fodder or only appear once and never again. Seems to me that the Empire needs to improve their training.

 

So basically, my point is, it's not really worth it story-wise.

 

Oh and also, it's not "Smugglers are Republic and BH are Empire", it's lore-wise that ONE special Smuggler and BH fight for the Republic and Empire respectively, kinda explained in the backstory. You have to see it's not about all Smugglers and Bounty Hunters, but about certain individuals who find themselves in a tough spot.

 

 

That's only from your point of view though, on the Empire side, it can equally be said that the Empire classes take down the best of the best, it's only a matter of point of view, just because Havoc squad is said to be the best by the republic, doesn't mean it is.

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Why do people keep bringing in balance as if its an issue. An Imperial Trooper can fight alonside the Empire and against the Republic just as well as anyone else. Realistically, a smuggler would never be able to take one of the most powerful Sith Lords in the galaxy (which you are), yet it happens all the time. A lightsaber should kill an opponent in one hit, yet it takes loads of strikes. I don't see why it is being made into issue about the Imperial Trooper.
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Somehow, I don't think playing as a storm trooper would lead to fulfilling gameplay, when the game is likely to end in the prologue when a moody sith chokes you to death because the recurring villain got away. Also, at this point, it's just not a good expenditure of resources to make a class that wouldn't add anything to the game mechanically, and would have a similar story to an existing one.
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We get 4 stories per side. Why do we want classes that are totally similar to each other in both story and design? We have a republic trooper and we have an imperial agent. Two different looks into the military of both sides. If we had an imperial trooper, we wouldn't have bounty hunters. Is that really what we want? Now we have smuggler and BH on both sides: classes that are basically independent, yet work for different sides. A much better balance of stories imo. I really cannot believe people think mirror roles/stories are better than completely unique ones. BH and smuggler are very iconic characters in the Star Wars universe on their respective sides. Agent an Trooper are less so, but no less awesome. Sure, anyone can think of a dozen different class ideas that would be cool, but in game development you really do have to make choices. It's insane that this topic has so many replies arguing that we should have imperial troopers, who most closely resemble stormtroopers from the original trilogy, and who were basically just cannon fodder. I prefer agents and bounty hunters by a pretty huge margin.

 

Basically, no point crying after an Imperial Trooper. They didn't go for it, and they never will. If they make new classes down the line, I'm sure they can think of a hundred better stories than the life of a stormtrooper, and from a gameplay stand-point it would be a pretty insane idea to make another trooper. I'm not saying it couldn't be cool, because it could, but if you want to play a trooper, play republic. That's all.

Edited by Boissi
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I agree, I think it would be great to have imperial troppers and smugglers...or even make them a 'neutral' faction, so that they can play both sides. I suppose that could get unbalancing, but who knows, I don't see any probs with picking a neutral class, and then committing to a side later on maybe...
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So, I'm left thinking that Bioware's mistake with troopers was making them a Republic class instead of an Imperial Class. Would it not have made more sense to assume that in making a clone army, Palpatine was creating something that the old Sith Empire had? After all, he also reinstated grey uniformed officers and a black armoured Sith Lord.

 

You're... ignoring the EU in an EU game set after several other EU games and incorporating material from dozens of EU media? And then claiming that Bioware made a mistake in making the Troopers Republic?

 

I mean, you're ignoring most of the fluff of the game, then coming up with conclusions based on that. I'unno, that just seems stupid to me.

 

 

....Or you could buy the CE and buy the Imperial trooper armor from the CE vendor for your agent.... just saying.

 

That's really not cheap at all, you know.

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You're... ignoring the EU in an EU game set after several other EU games and incorporating material from dozens of EU media? And then claiming that Bioware made a mistake in making the Troopers Republic?

 

I mean, you're ignoring most of the fluff of the game, then coming up with conclusions based on that. I'unno, that just seems stupid to me.

.

 

Yes, I am ignoring the EU quite deliberately because how many people here really care about the EU? There are plenty of Star Wars fans out there who do, but how many of them play MMO's? Put it another way, how many MMO players are Star Wars fans? Do you really think any MMO can survive simply by attracting the hardcore fans of a particular IP?

 

If this game was ever going to thrive as an MMO, it needed to attract MMO players who are not Star Wars fans too and those people do not care about the EU at all. What those people want is to play a game that looks and acts like they expect it to. If they have a passing knowledge of Star Wars, as many, many people do, they chances are they would expect the "stormtroopers" to be the bad guys.

 

 

 

 

... and did you just call me stupid?

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they chances are they would expect the "stormtroopers" to be the bad guys.

 

They would also expect the Orks to be badguys, but in WoW the Hoard isn't really the bad guys either. So your argument falls apart. Plus anyone with a passing knowledge of SW would also have some knowledge of the Clone Wars show, in which all the Troopers are good guys.

 

In fact, they would be more likely to associate the look and feel of the Trooper class with the Republic then Empire given how popular the Clones Wars show is, and how recent it is.

 

Myself I think an Imperial Trooper class could work in this game. The real question isn't if there can be one but if the time and effort to make whole new classes is a good idea or not. If so, would something that plays very much like the Bounty Hunter be a good idea or not, even with a new storyline.

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They would also expect the Orks to be badguys, but in WoW the Hoard isn't really the bad guys either. So your argument falls apart. Plus anyone with a passing knowledge of SW would also have some knowledge of the Clone Wars show, in which all the Troopers are good guys.

 

I wouldn't expect orcs to be bad guys in WoW on the basis of them being the bad guys in other settings, but I would expect troopers to be the bad guys in a Star Wars game on the basis of them being the bad guys in Star Wars.

 

In fact, they would be more likely to associate the look and feel of the Trooper class with the Republic then Empire given how popular the Clones Wars show is, and how recent it is.

 

... except that the clone troopers are not actually good guys at all. As I said in my earlier post, they are actually enemy sleeper agents who will eventually kill the jedi. Given that the whole look and feel of the Sith Empire is based largely on the Galactic Empire of the original trilogy, my opinion is that troopers in their current form, would have worked better as an Imperial class.

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I wouldn't expect orcs to be bad guys in WoW on the basis of them being the bad guys in other settings

 

They were the bad guys in the Warcraft games.

 

I would expect troopers to be the bad guys in a Star Wars game on the basis of them being the bad guys in Star Wars.

 

The clone troopers started off as good guys, and there's a whole TV show devoted to them being bad guys. Anyone who knows anything at all about Star Wars will know about the TV Show, and will know that the troopers started off as good guys.

 

The fact that some people who only saw Ep 4-6 and associates the trooper with Stormtroopers simply doesn't matter at all. Espeically considering that the Troopers in this game don't even really look much like Stormtroopers. They have color on their armor, their helmets are different and they use different weapons.

 

Plus they start off with no helmet and armor that looks Nothing like the clone troopers or storm troopers.

 

Your whole argument fails on pretty much every level, because it counts on people who most likely don't even exist or else exist in such small numbers that it doesn't matter. The bulk of people who play MMO's will have at least a passing understanding of the SW universe and as such know that the Republic Troopers came first. They will not come here expecting Imperial Troopers any more then you expected to see Orc's being the badguys in WoW.

 

Given the popularity of the Clone Wars TV show, the fact that SWTOR takes place 3000 years prior to that, and the need to balance classes in this game...

 

It would of been monumentally stupid of them to make Imperial Troopers and not make Republic Troopers. They could of done both, but then there would be either no bounty hunters, or else bounty hunters on both sides. That would of required 5 stories per side.

Edited by VanorDM
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The clone troopers started off as good guys, and there's a whole TV show devoted to them being bad guys. Anyone who knows anything at all about Star Wars will know about the TV Show, and will know that the troopers started off as good guys.

 

I think you've missed the point of my posts. I'm arguing that the clone troopers were never the good guys. They didn't start out as the good guys and turn into bad guys. they were created as sleeper agents, were always the bad guys, were always intended to betray the jedi. They were the bad guys.

 

Remember that the events of the Clone Wars series take place between episodes 2 and 3. The true nature of the clone troopers was only revealed towards the end of episode 3.

 

It would of been monumentally stupid of them to make Imperial Troopers and not make Republic Troopers. They could of done both, but then there would be either no bounty hunters, or else bounty hunters on both sides. That would of required 5 stories per side.

 

I'm only taking issue with the people who have said that it makes no sense to have Imperial Troopers. To me it makes perfect sense. If we are playing a game of "What would we have done differently", then I would have still had 4 classes per side. What I would not have had is two force user classes per side. One is plenty. Sith Warriors, Imperial Troopers, Bounty Hunters and Imperial Agents would have been my dream team as far as the Empire is concerned.

Edited by Crito
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