Jump to content

Bioware can you explain to me why...


NamikazeNaruto

Recommended Posts

Smash can hit people for 10k AoE up to 5 people? You think I am kidding... but I am not, a friend of mine critted someone for 9k on his smash yesterday. My biggest hit on assassin is up to 7.5k and that is single hit. Yet not only can Smash/Force Sweep do more damage on a single target.... but it hits 5 people at once! There are 3 different ways to have your stacks of singularity up to accomplish this so basically every time smash is off cooldown you can land it on people with the full damage.

 

Every game you can tell who the smash specced people are. because they have at least 200k more overall damage than anyone else on the scoreboard. Sure maybe one smash specced player is not so bad. However, now since people know how powerful it is... most people that are a guardian/jugg/sent/mara just abuse the crap out of this. So teams take 2 or 3 smashes to the face for about 5-6k damage a piece if you are full WH... and up to 9-10k if your gear is horrible. Now multiply that damage by 2 or 3 because that is how many smash specced players are usually in a warzone. So if there were 3 of them... WH geared people lose 15k-18k health instantly and horribly geared players take up to 27k-30k damage. Just tell me Bioware... how is this in any way balanced?

Edited by NamikazeNaruto
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 233
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I must say I love the 30% AOE damage reduction the AP tree gives me. I think I haven't been hit above 3.7k by smash since 1.4 :D

 

Also, while I agree smash can do extreme damage in certain conditions to players with crappy gear, it is also an attack that is fairly easily evaded. It is predictable so you know when to use your defensive abilities to negate it. It also misses a fair amount of times if you are not caught in a charge -> smash -> push -> charge -> choke -> smash sequence (which is usually your own fault for allowing to happen, though sometimes cannot be prevented)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must say I love the 30% AOE damage reduction the AP tree gives me. I think I haven't been hit above 3.7k by smash since 1.4 :D

 

Also, while I agree smash can do extreme damage in certain conditions to players with crappy gear, it is also an attack that is fairly easily evaded. It is predictable so you know when to use your defensive abilities to negate it. It also misses a fair amount of times if you are not caught in a charge -> smash -> push -> charge -> choke -> smash sequence (which is usually your own fault for allowing to happen, though sometimes cannot be prevented)

 

It's not so easy to evade anymore, the stacks both auto crit and singularity/shockwave now last 20 seconds, so you will get hit with the smash/sweep. The only way to evade it is if a shadow/assassin pops their resistance to tech/force right before they triggered the smash/sweep.

Edited by Devilk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must say I love the 30% AOE damage reduction the AP tree gives me. I think I haven't been hit above 3.7k by smash since 1.4 :D

 

Also, while I agree smash can do extreme damage in certain conditions to players with crappy gear, it is also an attack that is fairly easily evaded. It is predictable so you know when to use your defensive abilities to negate it. It also misses a fair amount of times if you are not caught in a charge -> smash -> push -> charge -> choke -> smash sequence (which is usually your own fault for allowing to happen, though sometimes cannot be prevented)

 

All fair points, and I also get that the Rage/Focus spec is something of a one trick pony, and that is their one trick. But I think when the single hardest hitting attack in the game, is both AoE AND Instant, there is something fundamentally wrong. Ravage... Ravage should be the hardest hitting attack that any warrior class or spec has, period. In fact every class/spec's hardest hitting ability should always be a 3 second channeled ability, and it certainly shouldnt affect 5 people at once.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not so easy to evade anymore, the stacks both auto crit and singularity/shockwave now last 20 seconds, so you will get hit with the smash/sweep. The only way to evade it is if a shadow/assassin pops their resistance to tech/force right before they triggered the smash/sweep.

 

Yep, there are plenty of ways to reduce the damage.. for a time but there isn't really a way to evade the smashes anymore. In a game with 2-3 smash specced players, lol, your defensive cooldowns may protect you for a little bit but not for long.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All fair points, and I also get that the Rage/Focus spec is something of a one trick pony, and that is their one trick. But I think when the single hardest hitting attack in the game, is both AoE AND Instant, there is something fundamentally wrong. Ravage... Ravage should be the hardest hitting attack that any warrior class or spec has, period. In fact every class/spec's hardest hitting ability should always be a 3 second channeled ability, and it certainly shouldnt affect 5 people at once.

 

AoE, instant, and requires little setup to deal the maximum damage. One of their three ways of getting 4 stacks of singularity gives all 4 stacks to them instantly and has a 1 minute cooldown I believe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Smash doesn't crit the same across every player it hits

I can hit a group of players and the numbers will vary across each taking

Into account each players mitigation so smashing 3 players you would see as an example 7k 4k 2k

not 7k 7k 7k

I agree It is a strong move for an instant aoe that has minimal set up requirement

Link to comment
Share on other sites

AoE, instant, and requires little setup to deal the maximum damage. One of their three ways of getting 4 stacks of singularity gives all 4 stacks to them instantly and has a 1 minute cooldown I believe.

 

40 seconds talented.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's so funny to see people cry about this when Rage/Focus has been able to do that damage since......ever.

 

It didn't always have the armor penetration, and it didn't used to be so easy to land. However, if you must know I've always had an issue with smash spec just for the sheer fact of having such a high damage ability be an AoE. However, before it could be evaded, not so much now. It is literally a low risk high reward spec. The top dps in a warzone now are always smash specced players, ALWAYS. It's not even close.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It didn't always have the armor penetration, and it didn't used to be so easy to land. However, if you must know I've always had an issue with smash spec just for the sheer fact of having such a high damage ability be an AoE. However, before it could be evaded, not so much now. It is literally a low risk high reward spec. The top dps in a warzone now are always smash specced players, ALWAYS. It's not even close.

 

While I essentially agree with you, the problem is the entire rage tree revolves around smash. Significantly reducing the smash damage because it is AOE will make rage juggernauts and their republic counterparts terrible in one on one encounters which is still important even if the focus is team vs team.

 

What I personally think would be a good solution is change the AOE mechanic of smash so that the primary target is hit by the full amount, but the secondary targets that are within the AOE range take less damage. Or reduce the amount of damage to each target depending on the amount of players it hits. (say 1 player hit takes a potential 6000 crit, 2 players hit would take a potential 5000 crit each, 3 players or more hit would get a potential 4000 crit each.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's so funny to see people cry about this when Rage/Focus has been able to do that damage since......ever.

 

that's what ppl say, and I suppose it's true. however, there are definitely more ppl smashing all over the place, because I'm taking significantly more dmg from juggs. in fact, 1v1, I can kite a jugg all day. and I'm decent but nothing special. thus, I think the issue is that more juggs/guards are focus spec'd, and they're catching ppl in close proximity.

 

I can say that probably the best dps in my guild was a focus guardian before he unsubbed. so...yeah. the spec has always been good, but for w/e reason, it's now the fotm and flooding wz's, wrecking melee who are unable to avoid thanks to being in stun 50% longer.

 

I The top dps in a warzone now are always smash specced players, ALWAYS. It's not even close.

patently not true. but I'm with you on the other stuff.

 

:2cents:

Edited by foxmob
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Focus has always been good. The improvements along with every warrior/knight using this tree is out of control. I really don't want to have to play a spec/class with AoE damage reduction just because Bioware didn't think this change through, but I'm guessing it will take weeks/months for them to figure out rage/focus is over the top.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Dev Post

I asked Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Rage and Focus builds and how they're fitting into PvP overall right now, and here was his comment:

 

Rage and Focus have always been high burst specs, but they haven't been very popular due to some usability and quality of life issues in the past. Our goal for Focus and Rage was to address those issues without significantly affecting their burst. In large part, I think we've done that, but the result is that many people are playing them now, which means there's a lot of AOE burst happening in warzones that wasn't happening before. We're willing to wait and see if their popularity is a result of being viewed as "flavor of the month" (i.e. Rage/Focus populations will naturally subside as people realize the spec doesn't suit their playstyle) or if they are truly too good and were just too unusable before. In short, we're going to keep a close eye on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it is more of a flavor of the month thing having been playing focus spec for a while now the spec isn't that much different in 1.4 then it was in 1.3. Never had resource management problems before 1.4 so the changes weren't that big of a deal. The biggest change that happened to focus was when they changed the stances so now that it gives a bonus to force damage.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I asked Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Rage and Focus builds and how they're fitting into PvP overall right now, and here was his comment:

 

Rage and Focus have always been high burst specs, but they haven't been very popular due to some usability and quality of life issues in the past. Our goal for Focus and Rage was to address those issues without significantly affecting their burst. In large part, I think we've done that, but the result is that many people are playing them now, which means there's a lot of AOE burst happening in warzones that wasn't happening before. We're willing to wait and see if their popularity is a result of being viewed as "flavor of the month" (i.e. Rage/Focus populations will naturally subside as people realize the spec doesn't suit their playstyle) or if they are truly too good and were just too unusable before. In short, we're going to keep a close eye on it.

 

So is this getting sorted out soon then? and when!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thing is...it really didn't need buffing at all. It was already a very powerful spec. Maybe it could be cleaned up a little to be easier to play, but these changes actually increased the amount of damage it can do, and how often it can do it. I really don't get it.

 

And unfortunately by that dev comment, it sounds like it will take a long while before any change happens. DPS scoundrels are still waiting their turn at being "flavor of the month" by the way. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I asked Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Rage and Focus builds and how they're fitting into PvP overall right now, and here was his comment:

 

Rage and Focus have always been high burst specs, but they haven't been very popular due to some usability and quality of life issues in the past. Our goal for Focus and Rage was to address those issues without significantly affecting their burst. In large part, I think we've done that, but the result is that many people are playing them now, which means there's a lot of AOE burst happening in warzones that wasn't happening before. We're willing to wait and see if their popularity is a result of being viewed as "flavor of the month" (i.e. Rage/Focus populations will naturally subside as people realize the spec doesn't suit their playstyle) or if they are truly too good and were just too unusable before. In short, we're going to keep a close eye on it.

 

In short: You still have no idea what you're doing on the PVP end of the spectrum. Assassin/Shadow Tank hybrids are outDPS'ing PURE dps classes (This is possible in Tank stance mind you), Sentinel/Marauder burst death squads are obliterating everything within 6 gcds (Yet still retain the most defensive CDs and TEAM BUFFS) and Paired smash (geared) warriors are AOE bombarding the **** out of clusters of players. Sorcs still don't have a defensive CD, mercs are still a red headed step child in the DPS department (just like lightning sorcs, the lack of mobility // reliance on one spell makes them a joke) and Operative healers are still the best PVP healer in the game.

 

The only thing I've seen *fixed* recently was the Pyro/vanguard ability to destroy someone at range and melee.

 

SIDENOTE: I am happy to see another "we're keeping an eye on it" response which is along the same lines of "Soon" and "stunlocking operative teams ruining PVP". /sarcasm.

 

On a more serious note: Can any of the developers respond to the Class Feedback threads? Because as of right now, they haven't listened to a damn word in them and have mentioned NOTHING about balancing PVE or PVP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I asked Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Rage and Focus builds and how they're fitting into PvP overall right now, and here was his comment:

 

Rage and Focus have always been high burst specs, but they haven't been very popular due to some usability and quality of life issues in the past. Our goal for Focus and Rage was to address those issues without significantly affecting their burst. In large part, I think we've done that, but the result is that many people are playing them now, which means there's a lot of AOE burst happening in warzones that wasn't happening before. We're willing to wait and see if their popularity is a result of being viewed as "flavor of the month" (i.e. Rage/Focus populations will naturally subside as people realize the spec doesn't suit their playstyle) or if they are truly too good and were just too unusable before. In short, we're going to keep a close eye on it.

 

Thanks for the reply, Allison.

 

One of the biggest problems with Smash/Sweep now is the fact you can't stop it. It used be if you saw it coming you could knock them back and stop it. Now I notice that when a Jugg/Guardian leaps to me even if I knock them back before it goes off I'll see them land the animation goes off 20m away and I still eat a 5k hit. It also takes little to no setup. Leap, Smash/Sweep isn't exactly a complex rotation. Force Stasis/Choke, get knocked back, Leap, Smash/Sweep isn't exactly rocket science either. It's an incredibly hard hitting AoE instant it should take some significant setup to deal the kind of damage that it does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DPS scoundrels are still waiting their turn at being "flavor of the month" by the way. :rolleyes:

 

LOL... just LOL. :)

 

 

 

In my view the extra stacks of shockwave and cooldowns and stuff do make it easier to use, the problem is it also makes the spec significantly stronger. When combined with the instant cast it's too much; dodging/knockbacks used to be the way to counter smashes. It is very fun to play as, but kinda ridiculous when there's more than one (just like pre-1.4 assault vanguards).

 

And an even more serious problem IMO is that it makes Vigilance/Vengeance specs completely obsolete. Seriously, the only benefit is extra damage reduction, as a DPS spec. Rage/Focus hits 5-10% higher on a single target, and completely obliterates groups. Our Vig Guardian was already our raid's highest DPS, and now he's respecced and does 8% more damage without even practicing on Focus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...