tl;dr thread

 

Mediocrity loves company, apparently.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Arlanon

There's a baseless double standard in thinking (or lack thereof).

 

If you were doing Eternity Vault, which would you prefer? A random group finder pug, or a premade guild team who knows what they're doing? You would prefer the premade group. No one enjoys a pug pve group that wipes repeatedly.

 

If you were doing Alderaan Civil War, which would you prefer? A random group finder pug, or a premade guild team who knows what they're doing? You would prefer a pug? You enjoy a pug pvp group that wipes repeatedly?

 

RETARD OVERLOAD RETARD OVERLOAD

 

No dah sherlock, but since you know let's try this question:

 

Do you want a guy trying to win in Recruit gear or a guy that doesn't care in War Hero Gear. Note both individuals here will lead to losing. But which is more fun and why?

Ok lets look at it this way. Do you believe that a geared premade fighting a pug group requires much skill at all?

 

Do you believe there is much skill needed to play the fotm dps classes with a pocket healer on you when the people you are fighting are randoms who don't know eachother and have far less gear on average?

No dah sherlock, but since you know let's try this question:

 

Do you want a guy trying to win in Recruit gear or a guy that doesn't care in War Hero Gear. Note both individuals here will lead to losing. But which is more fun and why?

 

I would want an intelligent, objective-minded Recruit over a dumb worthless War Hero. The guy who is trying to improve, will do so. The guy who is not trying to improve, never will.

 

Also: Your petty attempt at insulting me is amusing. I can tell this is a topic near and dear to your heart. You really have given up all hope of ever improving, haven't you? It's why you so adamantly promote lowering the bar.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Arlanon

I would want an intelligent, objective-minded Recruit over a dumb worthless War Hero. The guy who is trying to improve, will do so. The guy who is not trying to improve, never will.

 

Also: Your petty attempt at insulting me is amusing. I can tell this is a topic near and dear to your heart. You really have given up all hope of ever improving, haven't you? It's why you so adamantly promote lowering the bar.

 

You are right, because everyone wants Premades to vs Premades, effectively forcing the queues for premades to be longer, forcing people to abuse the system to premade in a way if they have to wait for too long.

 

If that doesnt work we should then try to somehow "force" that everyone solo queues so that it becomes fun when one group of bads vs one group of goods is somehow fun.

 

Oh dont forget to punish ppl in a WZ too for quitting early despite that he could either: Scream and berate others, AFK, or unsub for a 'forgettable' PvP evening.

 

The only suggestion that could work as stated was Doom for matchmaking, but that isnt simple, and most want to punish the premades for pugstomping.

 

The real problem which I keep stating and others as well is the bads because they are forcing the people to PREMADE in the first place. If people worked to the objective then Premades wouldnt occur as much, making it more fun. Which means that getting 8 man people possible for Rated WZ because people are trying to win rather than trying to farm comms.

 

But no one sees that, everyone sees that all Premades wanna do is Pugstomp. Because thats how every one views it. Amrite?

 

Also: You attacked me first, and my reply was no dah sherlock if that was a petty insult to you I hate to see what you do if someone berates you. Sheesh.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Zhaker

Ok lets look at it this way. Do you believe that a geared premade fighting a pug group requires much skill at all?

 

Do you believe there is much skill needed to play the fotm dps classes with a pocket healer on you when the people you are fighting are randoms who don't know eachother and have far less gear on average?

 

Ok let's look at your way.

 

Do I believe that a geared premade fighting a pug group requires much skill at all?

 

Maybe, depends on the PuG Group. if the PuG group are good players that want to win then the premade will need to fight to win it. If they can win through overpower more power to the premade, and that the PuG tried to at least give it a shot. No biggie, and good for them to try. If they make calls and do there best all good. If they didnt make inc call when we coulda won, if they decided to 3 cap when they shouldnt then yea I'm going to be pissed and annoyed.

 

Do I believe there is much skill needed to play the fotm dps classes with a pocket healer on you when the people you are fighting are randoms who don't know each other and have far less gear on average?

 

Being FOTM DPS means jack if you dont know the rotation and have the understanding of the class properly. Just because they're OP doesnt mean in the hands of a scrub that I should be scared. Hell if by anything a scrub Mara is going to be a joke. Does it take much skill, it might, no guarantee that being a recruit geared level 50 mara = I win right?

 

Also, having a pocket healer means jack especially on premades or smart PuG who will zerg the healers ***. If the healers get zerged like a boss then it merely only gives the FOTM DPS class a few more seconds to win, now unless this FOTM DPS is uber skilled that can kill anyone including peeps in Full Elite War Hero in 2 seconds I'm going to favor the zerg.

 

If a Pocket healer and FOTM DPS out gears, out skills, and out plays the zerg then more power to them and good on them for winning. It'd just mean the zerg need to work out a better rotation and keep at it.

No one is FORCING anyone to join a group. This notion that players are banding together as some sort of last resort is absurd.

 

You are just a bad player looking for ways to justify your badness. And hoping to become some sort of hero to the rest of the bads, who will no doubt look up to you as a role model of bads everywhere.

 

In the real world, Jedi school would have kicked you out for being emo. Sith school would have simply murdered you. Panda school would embrace you with open arms.

No one is FORCING anyone to join a group. This notion that players are banding together as some sort of last resort is absurd.

 

You are just a bad player looking for ways to justify your badness. And hoping to become some sort of hero to the rest of the bads, who will no doubt look up to you as a role model of bads everywhere.

 

In the real world, Jedi school would have kicked you out for being emo. Sith school would have simply murdered you. Panda school would embrace you with open arms.

 

You sir are an idiot.

 

But seeing that you are using Real World scenarios. Let's try this:

 

So Lebron James left Cleveland to join the Miami Heat, so he must be a bad player right? I mean he just got Finals MVP for winning the NBA 2011-2012 season right cause he got favourable calls right? (NOTE: I am a Bulls fan not a Heat fan).

 

But let's use SWTOR World Scenarios here:

 

A good player that is playing with PuG is like going to keeping PuGGing if his team is stupid not to try to win? Right? If that person is you, good for you! You must be so good you can beat anyone right?

 

So let's put this in light. In RWZ, what killed it wasnt to do with good killing bads, it was a mixture of server issues, latency and wierd **** going on in RWZ.

 

You also know why RWZ got killed, is because people abused it to get RWZ comms in the first place, they queue dodged those that were "too good" and tried to queue to face each other to get the max comms.

 

So ok, let's ask this question, those "good" players should be doing what?

 

- Pugging with bads? If they wont listen then those "good" players are going to have fun amirite?

- Reroll to the other side? If they want to but now you're forcing them. And they cant be fudged.

- Play another class? Same thing as Rerolling.

- Do nothing and unsub? Thats possible, but not good for Bioware no?

- Premading with friends while waiting for RWZ? I think this is the choice they would choose for MAX enjoyment.

Any reason why those who run in premades because they don't like losing don't want their own bracket? Hmm...guess that sorta answers itself.

So ok, let's ask this question, those "good" players should be doing what?

 

Playing to win.

 

I didn't bother reading the rest, that part just happened to catch my eye.

 

I'm not going to bother arguing stupidity with you. I will let your own stupidity speak for itself. The good players here know you're bad. We don't need to prove that to each other. Rather, it is bad players like you who feel the need to prove you are good.

 

You can do that one of two ways:

 

1= be good

2= cram it down everyone's throats trying to convince them that you are good (or that you SHOULD be good, or that you WOULD be good if... <INSERT ARBITRARY DEMAND HERE>)

 

The real goods let their actions do the talking. That is why I'm not going to try to debate you on this. The more vocal you get, the more bad you are showing yourself to be. It's called "Small Man Syndrome". You can Google that. Keep in mind that "smallness" can be metaphorical, so don't go thinking there's necessarily some sort of literal implication there. I know that will probably be the first and perhaps only conclusion your one-dimensional mind will attempt to come to.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Arlanon

Being good takes lot of time and work and even that wont quarantee that you actually woulld be good. Some come here to have fun and relax not to work, some dont have enough time, some just dont have talent to perform well no matter how hard they try. Over 20 abilities to use and you should learn to counter with them, I dont even know most of the time with what ability foes are attacking, let alone counter them. This isnt easy game (at least for me).

 

But anyway, I found my solution in under 50 wz and this game will be dead before all my alts hit 50 if this keeps going. Its better to be some use in under 50 than be burden in 50.

 

It starting to be VERY clear that us bads or casuals or newcomers and pros or competitive players wont fit in same warzones, so maybe there should be minor league for us and major league with skill based rating requirement for them?

Until cross server queues become a reality, there simply won't be enough of a population to support two separate queues. RE: We have two separate queues now. One of which is mostly inactive.

 

Arguing for anything else in the meantime is a band-aid "solution" that would cause more problems than it would create.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Arlanon

I was rail shotted 5-6 times one after the other from a premade group of powertechs. This sure is fun:D:D:D. Its like hai thar 20k hp how are you doing ---> rail shots x5 ----> where did you go hp? come bac***kk:confused: Edited December 13, 2012 by Penang

Any reason why those who run in premades because they don't like losing don't want their own bracket? Hmm...guess that sorta answers itself.

 

I was kinda thinking that myself.

Any reason why those who run in premades because they don't like losing don't want their own bracket? Hmm...guess that sorta answers itself.

 

Everyone knows this is the case. Even them.

 

It's just that the same type of person who is like that, is also too much of a coward to admit it.

 

 

You sir are an idiot.

 

But seeing that you are using Real World scenarios. Let's try this:

 

So Lebron James left Cleveland to join the Miami Heat, so he must be a bad player right? I mean he just got Finals MVP for winning the NBA 2011-2012 season right cause he got favourable calls right? (NOTE: I am a Bulls fan not a Heat fan).

 

But let's use SWTOR World Scenarios here:

 

A good player that is playing with PuG is like going to keeping PuGGing if his team is stupid not to try to win? Right? If that person is you, good for you! You must be so good you can beat anyone right?

 

So let's put this in light. In RWZ, what killed it wasnt to do with good killing bads, it was a mixture of server issues, latency and wierd **** going on in RWZ.

 

You also know why RWZ got killed, is because people abused it to get RWZ comms in the first place, they queue dodged those that were "too good" and tried to queue to face each other to get the max comms.

 

So ok, let's ask this question, those "good" players should be doing what?

 

- Pugging with bads? If they wont listen then those "good" players are going to have fun amirite?

- Reroll to the other side? If they want to but now you're forcing them. And they cant be fudged.

- Play another class? Same thing as Rerolling.

- Do nothing and unsub? Thats possible, but not good for Bioware no?

- Premading with friends while waiting for RWZ? I think this is the choice they would choose for MAX enjoyment.

 

so you're the lebron james of swtor? Cool story.

 

Anyways I pug all the time on my Sorc healer. I hit 560k healing last night with nothing but recruit gear and my WH mainhand. I was only guarded in about the first third of the match too. The rest of the match I was keeping our team at south alive, while we recaputured it. We barely won and I do believe I had a big impact on that match. People need to stop blaming their teammates and blaming their class or blaming the other team(how DARE they fight back) and work hard themselves to be the difference for their team.

 

If you're running to cap nodes and you're going alone, stop, wait(hide or stealth if you have it) and let a teammate or two catch up to you. That will help a great deal. If teammates are struggling to cap a node, get there as fast as possible and make whatever difference you can. Use your CC and make sure not to break that of your teammates. Focus fire enemy healers and intercept those who are focus firing your healers.

 

TLDR: PVP in this game is actually pretty easy. I hate to burst anyones bubble but it really is. Teamwork is always possible even as pugs and will make the differnece in securing that win(more wins means more valor more comms) Stop blaming bad teams and enemy premades. Start making the diffrerence yourself.

Look Z I believe you don't see what I am trying to say

 

. I want more even matches that is all.

 

I also believe this will benefit casual and new players which will bring in more development money (which is more important than what I want and that is why I bring this up).

 

Premade matching would put randoms with randoms more often and premades with premades more often. More even matches.

 

I assume you agree that the skill softcap in this game is rather low. Now a great player can go far above that skill cap since it is a soft one however players that are only marginally better or worse in other games are about the same here. That is why there are many mediocre players that gear up and form premades and stomp pugs but refuse to q up for ranked.

 

I WOULD RATHER PREMADE 70% OF THE TIME (I believe to stay skilled you must pug at least around 30%).

 

I just want to make sure that I have challenging fights. I actually prefer to be pugstomped than to do the pugstomping. That is why I want premade matching and that is why I don't premade now unless its with random guildies that don't pvp much lol.

Seriously.... this thread is still going?

 

Did you guys get tired of arguing east/west vs snow/grass?

Edited December 14, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

Seriously.... this thread is still going?

 

Did you guys get tired of arguing east/west vs snow/grass?

 

Ugly why are you bumping it then?

So I met this Republic person who had an Imperial Sorcerer alt. We'd won 15 matches together, her healing, me guarding her.

 

After win 15, I invited her to group with me. We won 6 more in a row before going to bed (not together).

 

YES IT WAS A PREMADE PUG. FEEL FREE TO HEAD ASPLODE WHENEVER YOURE READY

So I met this Republic person who had an Imperial Sorcerer alt. We'd won 15 matches together, her healing, me guarding her.

 

After win 15, I invited her to group with me. We won 6 more in a row before going to bed (not together).

 

YES IT WAS A PREMADE PUG. FEEL FREE TO HEAD ASPLODE WHENEVER YOURE READY

 

OMG you used TEAMWORK!!!! in an MMO, this clearly makes you an unskilled player.

@Druidregalia:

 

Thats what I'm trying to get at. But I'll add one extra thing, that frustrated people will want to group with other frustrated people to PREMADE, its not because that they lost, its because its HOW they lost. Who wants to play a WZ where 87.5% of people are doing random ****. Thats NOT fun.

 

PREMADE lessons this, you have it from 87.5% of random idiots to 50%, and even if its 50% premade could still lose because the other team full of PUG could win.

 

If people skilled up to do the basics of the WZ, not about individual skills of the class then the WZ would actually be more fun.

 

@DarthRaika:

 

Oh I understand this. But DO understand that ANYTHING that could make queue times longer for Regular WZ is not a good way to go about it. I mean anything longer than 10 minutes and I usually just call it. Because I hate waiting. Premade or PuG I experience long waits when Empire is on a Roll and Republic play stupid or vice versa.

 

Now I have the options to PUG or to Premade, and I usually PUG first than premade. Why? Because its faster to PuG than premade, no need to organize and set up players and wait for them to finish and yadda yadda yadda.

 

I premade when it gets to the point that us individuals that we go up against a constant Premade Republic or that Empire that we are with are stupid.

 

But of course Aralian ( or whatever that tool name is ) thinks I'm a scrub cause I support premades, but oh wait he premades too. Not only that he insults me for thinking premades are not last resort, to me they are. To others it might be for grouping with like minded people and also for friends and guildies.

 

EDIT:

 

I'll also admit something too. I sometimes **** up, I do stupid things and costed WZ and I always apologize and improve from that cause its stupid to do.

 

Now that said, I don't expect people to repeat the stupid **** and/or not improving ad nauseum, cause whats the point of playing, you cant just play because you want to. You all want to win right? There are other ways to do this than just trying to punish the premades.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Zhaker

I hate being put ON a premade team most of the time. These are the people that ***** at you for being in PVP recruit gear (like you should magically be able to get WH without ever PVPing) and shout 'omg, you suck so bad!' in chat over and over (and if you tell them to stop, they act like it's constructive criticism and say 'you need to admit you suck before you can get better').

 

I play with my guildies usually and half the time end up with a new guy who has NO PVP recruit gear (and will not go buy any, but I can't boot him because the guild masters frown on being mean to your less intelligent team members) and one or two who are in PVP recruit gear. That's fine. As long as everyone tries their best I can even forgive someone who doesn't have recruit gear, but to then get tossed onto a 4 man premade who berates you the whole time (without actually giving anything constructive like 'hey, don't use your CC breaker on that first bubble stun because they're going to throw another stun at you right after') just sucks the fun out of it.

does anyone actually read Zhaker's posts all the way through

 

i dont

Edited December 14, 2012 by Arlanon

Seriously.... this thread is still going?

 

Did you guys get tired of arguing east/west vs snow/grass?

 

God, I hope not. Those were my favorite PvP "discussions"