Bcause, unfortunately that 31/31/31 spec of yours isn't playable to the rest of us at the moment...sorry.

 

Oh 31/31/31 isnt playable? Ehmm, thats why i wrote the 3 simple words for kiddies "Annihilation" , "Rage" , "Carnage"

So they ll KNOW i dont speak for 1 spec. But stupid ppl are stupid. Next time i ll have to draw it.

Sorcs are fine, use line of sight and stop casting in the open. There are so many ways to kite and kill players that I see awful players not utilizing. People have to get out of the mindset that they can just channel and kill. Melee have a lot of trouble when they're not on you...

 

Sorcs are not fine. I have a 50 BM jugg and a 50 BM/WH sorc and the jugg is roflol overpowered whereas the sorc is a liability.

 

Range classes are just fodder to mdps now, sorcs/sages especially as they HAVE to stand still to cast for 2/3 of their trees.

 

At least op healers can run...

Sorcs are not fine. I have a 50 BM jugg and a 50 BM/WH sorc and the jugg is roflol overpowered whereas the sorc is a liability.

 

Range classes are just fodder to mdps now, sorcs/sages especially as they HAVE to stand still to cast for 2/3 of their trees.

 

At least op healers can run...

 

Ofc they are not fine...

I have 4 sec cc immunity on my jugg after charge, and every sorc i face, they spam their knockback right after i charge...

Their noobness results in death...serves them well

Sorcs are not fine. I have a 50 BM jugg and a 50 BM/WH sorc and the jugg is roflol overpowered whereas the sorc is a liability.

 

Range classes are just fodder to mdps now, sorcs/sages especially as they HAVE to stand still to cast for 2/3 of their trees.

 

At least op healers can run...

 

I play with madness sorcs and sorc healers (that have been playing their classes for months) who are doing just fine. I can tell you from that you're saying that you probbaly aren't optimizing your gear nor are you probably playing your class right.

 

Watch some of the sorc streamers on twitch.tv, they do really damn well, even after the sorc nerfs. They are in no way a liability if you use the full breadth of tools available to you.

 

*at least op healers can run*

You have a sprint

Edited May 5, 2012 by Dracosz

I play with madness sorcs and sorc healers (that have been playing their classes for months) who are doing just fine. I can tell you from that you're saying that you probbaly aren't optimizing your gear nor are you probably playing your class right.

 

Watch some of the sorc streamers on twitch.tv, they do really damn well, even after the sorc nerfs. They are in no way a liability if you use the full breadth of tools available to you.

 

*at least op healers can run*

You have a sprint

 

Do you realise the cd of sprint? Yes, exact same as charge. If i sprint away the mdps can charge me (sprint doesnt get you out of charge range).

 

And pray what do you do once youve sprinted away? Cast a hot that does 2k (total) heal? (thats 1 skill for the mdps) or cast a lolheal that has a 2.3s cast time... (please interrupt me).

 

No thanks, I'm one of the top sorcs on my server (still) with augmented BM/WH gear, 300 surge and 430 crit and at times even noob mdps tear me up with literally nothing I can do.

 

My jugg on the other hand is pure easy mode despite having significantly worse kit. Enrage>Charge>Obliterate>Smash>Scream>lolyouaredeadstupidsage. There is literally nothing they can do as they dont even get a chance to move.

 

Seriously, play both archetypes, its a joke atm.

Do you realise the cd of sprint? Yes, exact same as charge. If i sprint away the mdps can charge me (sprint doesnt get you out of charge range).

 

And pray what do you do once youve sprinted away? Cast a hot that does 2k (total) heal? (thats 1 skill for the mdps) or cast a lolheal that has a 2.3s cast time... (please interrupt me).

 

No thanks, I'm one of the top sorcs on my server (still) with augmented BM/WH gear, 300 surge and 430 crit and at times even noob mdps tear me up with literally nothing I can do.

 

My jugg on the other hand is pure easy mode despite having significantly worse kit. Enrage>Charge>Obliterate>Smash>Scream>lolyouaredeadstupidsage. There is literally nothing they can do as they dont even get a chance to move.

 

Seriously, play both archetypes, its a joke atm.

 

Noob detected

Do you realise the cd of sprint? Yes, exact same as charge. If i sprint away the mdps can charge me (sprint doesnt get you out of charge range).

 

And pray what do you do once youve sprinted away? Cast a hot that does 2k (total) heal? (thats 1 skill for the mdps) or cast a lolheal that has a 2.3s cast time... (please interrupt me).

 

No thanks, I'm one of the top sorcs on my server (still) with augmented BM/WH gear, 300 surge and 430 crit and at times even noob mdps tear me up with literally nothing I can do.

 

My jugg on the other hand is pure easy mode despite having significantly worse kit. Enrage>Charge>Obliterate>Smash>Scream>lolyouaredeadstupidsage. There is literally nothing they can do as they dont even get a chance to move.

 

Seriously, play both archetypes, its a joke atm.

 

There's not way you're putting out 18k damage in that time and a charge>obliterate will leave you with 0 points to smash and follow it up with a scream.

 

Please if you're going to complain use factual evidence and not crappy made up, well ****.

There's not way you're putting out 18k damage in that time and a charge>obliterate will leave you with 0 points to smash and follow it up with a scream.

 

Please if you're going to complain use factual evidence and not crappy made up, well ****.

 

Learn to read. Enrage.

I guess you all rolled a juggernaut/marauder already, that could be the only rational explanation, why isnt the forum flooded with NERF threads.

Warriors became too powerful, which made them TOO POPULAR. No resource bar ROOT, charge immunity, overpowered slow/control mechanism's leave no room for any ranged, especially not for sages. A single warrior can kill a sage in no time, but what if 2 or 3 charges you... OF course you could say that 3 sages would do the same to a warrior, but thats not quite true. And here we run into our second problem, WARRIOR SURV. Really? Insane damage reduction talents, saber ward, last stand, intervene, AOE BLIND, KNOCKBACK, and the best and cheapest AOE SLOW in the game...

Warriors, both jugs and marauders CRIT FOR 7k , with both masterstrike and SWEEP/EXECUTE. 3 hardest hitting abilities belong to the same class, and you think its *********** BALANCED? Practicly its like if i started from 70% hp, since under 30% i get chain executed. ANd thanks to UNAVOIDABLE DAMAGE warrior mechanisms, you find yourself under 30% in an eyeblink, no matter how geared or skilled you are...

 

They really have too much survability can easily hit 7000+ and make chain dps that kills sage with same kind gear in blink of an eye. Sage has to stop moving damage (telekinetics) or putt all dots in still the damage is poor compared to survability. Someone must be insane if calls this game balanced. Yes i play sage, sentinel and juggernaut so i know.

Learn to read. Enrage.

 

6+3=9-3=6-3=3-4=-1... See.

 

And it's still not 18k damage.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Xerain

You should not be able to be rooted with a full resolve bar. This would fix a lot of the QQ regarding Sents/Marauders and Jugg/Guardian. I cannot tell you how many times I have been white barred (full resolve bar if you didn't understand that correlation), and I will get rooted in place for another 4-5 seconds during that period of so called CC immunity. Of course its not hard to kill 1 person with 2-3 melee when they can keep you locked in place for 15-20 seconds.

You should not be able to be rooted with a full resolve bar. This would fix a lot of the QQ regarding Sents/Marauders and Jugg/Guardian. I cannot tell you how many times I have been white barred (full resolve bar if you didn't understand that correlation), and I will get rooted in place for another 4-5 seconds during that period of so called CC immunity. Of course its not hard to kill 1 person with 2-3 melee when they can keep you locked in place for 15-20 seconds.

 

1 person can keep you in place 15-20 seconds? Maybe with carnage spec and if no one beats on you when they pop intimidating roar but doing that would be extremely lucky.

 

Good thing roots and CC in this game can't be cleansed though right?

1 person can keep you in place 15-20 seconds? Maybe with carnage spec and if no one beats on you when they pop intimidating roar but doing that would be extremely lucky.

 

Good thing roots and CC in this game can't be cleansed though right?

 

Please read my post before you respond. I said 2-3 melee keeping you locked in place for 15-20 seconds.

6+3=9-3=6-3=3-4=-1... See.

 

You are so stupid, you really want to throw stuff out there when you know nothing about either class involved?

 

My jugg is specced into Rage/Veng cross (as top tier skills are not worth it imo)

 

- Enrage gives me full rage bar + 4 shockwaves (auto crit smash)

- Ruin from veng tree means smash costs no rage

- Hence, automatic critical hit from smash

- Hence double damage from smash + all the other damage from the precursors

- Hence **** and get a clue.

 

Honestly, WTG to completely undermine yourself.

I don't have to prove anything. I didn't screenshot the 7549 hit, because I routinely get hit above 7000 with smash/force sweeps on my server. I'm sure they pop trinkets/overcharge consumables to do it, but if I do the same thing as a sorc I am lucky to get a 4k hit off with my death field, and that only hits a max of 3 targets, not 5 like smash/sweep does.

 

If it makes you feel better, I'll screenshot the next one, but a rage-specced Jugg is the most devastating thing in the game right now when it comes to that smash. Maybe outside that smash they don't do much, but who really cares about sustained dps in PvP. You know who has good sustained dps right now? Sorcs. Where does that get them? No where. PvP is all about burst and Juggs have that in spades. The whole rage tree needs to be nerfed.

 

I'm sorry, but I just have to react to this. I'm a focus Guardian (same as rage jugg). I am in full BM remodded for power (since surge is on no pvp mods after 1.2). My Force crit multiplier is at 99%, force bonus damage at about 670.

If you don't understand the numbers, I can tell you that there won't be a lot more Focus Guardians/rage juggs hitting significantly harder than me.

If I pop my relic/adrenal, I hit a sorc with force sweep/smash for like 4.7-5k, I think my highest hit so far was 5.4k. If I had some WH pieces (they are more friendly towards surge) I might be hitting them for 5k+ regulary.

The best geared jugg on our server is Rage spec, has full WH and is hitting me for just under 6k with his smash.

If you're getting hit for 7k+ on regular basis, you're either full of crap of you thought ignoring expertise was a good idea. It's not.

I guess you all rolled a juggernaut/marauder already, that could be the only rational explanation, why isnt the forum flooded with NERF threads. \

 

I went back to my mage on WoW, but the forum is already flooded with nerf threads.

You are so stupid, you really want to throw stuff out there when you know nothing about either class involved?

 

My jugg is specced into Rage/Veng cross (as top tier skills are not worth it imo)

 

- Enrage gives me full rage bar + 4 shockwaves (auto crit smash)

- Ruin from veng tree means smash costs no rage

- Hence, automatic critical hit from smash

- Hence double damage from smash + all the other damage from the precursors

- Hence **** and get a clue.

 

Honestly, WTG to completely undermine yourself.

 

Hey you never said spec in here sir. Not my fault you're going around going blah blah blah smash spec, maybe you should give more information?

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/7unsWGY/enrage

^I see 6 and no talent to increase that...

 

You're still not doing that much damage to kill a sage with that combo so GG. Everything would need to crit and even then it wouldn't be doing enough damage to kill a person (unless they had like 11k hp)

Hey you never said spec in here sir. Not my fault you're going around going blah blah blah smash spec, maybe you should give more information?

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/7unsWGY/enrage

^I see 6 and no talent to increase that...

 

You're still not doing that much damage to kill a sage with that combo so GG. Everything would need to crit and even then it wouldn't be doing enough damage to kill a person (unless they had like 11k hp)

 

Keep backpedalling. Its funny.

 

Most sages in full BM (in fact an above par assumption) have about 16k-16.5k hps (Not this invented 18k number youve pulled out of your a**e), I know because you know what... I HAVE ONE.

 

Are you seriously saying that the 10-12k dmg I can put out on my jugg within 5 seconds does not mean the sage is, in effect dead? What do you do when you see a sage/sorc with 1/4 health? I assume you just let it stand there.... Let me put it this way, when a class as squishy as a sage sorc is below 50% its just a matter of time until death.

 

Honestly, just go home. I play both classes and have no particular preference for one over another (I'm good at both). My OBJECTIVE stance is that my jugg is massively opd compared to my sorc.

 

Anyone saying otherwise is:

 

1/ Wrong

2/ Has not played both classes

3/ Has vested interests (ie is an mdps)

1 person can keep you in place 15-20 seconds? Maybe with carnage spec and if no one beats on you when they pop intimidating roar but doing that would be extremely lucky.

 

Good thing roots and CC in this game can't be cleansed though right?

 

Oh, and just to clarify that you didn't even read my post at all. Operatives can't cleanse your root or your CC. Evasion does not dispel your root. I have two escape abilities, PvP trinket and Vanish, both with long cooldowns. I can constantly survive 3-4 melee chasing me around because I am better than them 99% of the time, but if you white bar me you can still keep me "CC'd" with charge root, leaving me defenseless while the other 2-3 melee are beating my brains in.

You should not be able to be rooted with a full resolve bar. This would fix a lot of the QQ regarding Sents/Marauders and Jugg/Guardian. I cannot tell you how many times I have been white barred (full resolve bar if you didn't understand that correlation), and I will get rooted in place for another 4-5 seconds during that period of so called CC immunity. Of course its not hard to kill 1 person with 2-3 melee when they can keep you locked in place for 15-20 seconds.

 

if roots were affected by resolve that would be a huge buff to melee lol

if roots were affected by resolve that would be a huge buff to melee lol

 

Man you people DO NOT read at all. All I said is you should not be able to be rooted WITH A FULL RESOLVE BAR. Meaning roots do not fill your resolve, but you can't be rooted for the duration you are fully resolved. Do I need to write this in crayon?

 

Edit: Just to clarify its a buff for ranged just as much as it is melee since you can't be rooted by a Warrior ACs gap closer.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Ohpstar

Alright,i give up, not just the topic, but the sage class as it is.

 

People are treating me if i were a complete retard standing in the open and not using my cd's. FOR GODS *********** SAKE, im a 7x times glad hero, twice rank2 from outland. Played every class in wow, got 3 geared chars in swtor, reached 700k dmg done as a gunnery commando,pyrotech, combat sentinel. I know the *********** game mechanics, i know my own role and im telling you SAGE IS AS BROKEN AS IT CAN BE.Already explained why. IF you cant experience that during your wz's, you must be a total retard...

JUST ASK YOURSELF, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME WHEN YOU LOST TO A SAGE. IF you ever did, end of discussion, YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING VERY WRONG ... and thats it.

 

Thank you for feeding this topic, WE NEED TO KEEP UP THE WHINE POSTS, nerf cries always get a result, sooner or later at least

Im *********** out of here

I just give my opinion thou i know this section of bioware forum is most time pointless waste of time. If bioware would have taken steps and test changes not on paper then we would not have issues with melee classes.

 

I have also sage that i dont play much in pvp reason is what OP kinda layed all out. What i see is alot of Sins and marauders around now. 2-3 marauders jumping on one target is dead withing seconds. Only tanks and high defence classes can survive a bit longer to actually recieve heals and have chance. No one argues that one should stay alive when 3 people attack you same time, but i seen marauders get away same with sins.

 

Not going to talk about sin, people who have fought full BM or WH geared sin know what they can do if they got some healing backup. Bioware did try to balance on paper classes one by one, but what happens when 3-4 or more same class stack up - you get massacre in 8vs8 zone. Thats all i have to say. Good luck discussing one class balance. Until Bioware starts testing pvp in odd class mixup and puts high expertise vs lower exertise they get the picture what is happening in WZ's now.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Divona

i'm a ranged class and i dont want to say a lot of bla bla bla bla

 

but i think is obvious that a class cannot be the best dps 1vs1 and at same time the best defensive class.

i can't take half of my life with 2 swings of saber.

 

marauders and juggernaut are melee class but both have a ranged swing of 3k crits that plus their powerful swing takes me exactly half life.

 

before 1.2 i had a very impressive dps with commando gunnery (arround 450k, 500k) but i can say my weakness. i was totally unusefull on huttball without speed, immunity. i didn't have interrupt and all my skills channeled.

 

now i've a decent dps, not best. i've just finished a Wz where a Marauder scored 511k and 100k healing (remember he's melee) and i've scored 350k with a better rate of fire (i'm ranged). He had 72 kills (remember he have to defeat 1on1 mostly) and i had 50 (remember i can spam my skills arround over more targets than i should have more kills). i still have the old weakness plus a nerf on damage and less survive ability.

normaly with a grav round i'm hitting from 2,6k over 2,8k on a Sorcerer with light armor but when i hit a marauder in medium i can hit from 1,6k to 1,7k cause of procs, shield and so on. with juggernaut is even worst, with most hits lower than 1,5k. you may understand that is very difficult to take over a 18k health charter hitting him with such as those critcs damages.

 

i admit that they are not very powerfull buffed, they are still the same as 1.1.5 the problems is within the other classes that taken a weak with new expertise e various nerfs.

I guess you all rolled a juggernaut/marauder already, that could be the only rational explanation, why isnt the forum flooded with NERF threads.

Warriors became too powerful, which made them TOO POPULAR. No resource bar ROOT, charge immunity, overpowered slow/control mechanism's leave no room for any ranged, especially not for sages. A single warrior can kill a sage in no time, but what if 2 or 3 charges you... OF course you could say that 3 sages would do the same to a warrior, but thats not quite true. And here we run into our second problem, WARRIOR SURV. Really? Insane damage reduction talents, saber ward, last stand, intervene, AOE BLIND, KNOCKBACK, and the best and cheapest AOE SLOW in the game...

Warriors, both jugs and marauders CRIT FOR 7k , with both masterstrike and SWEEP/EXECUTE. 3 hardest hitting abilities belong to the same class, and you think its *********** BALANCED? Practicly its like if i started from 70% hp, since under 30% i get chain executed. ANd thanks to UNAVOIDABLE DAMAGE warrior mechanisms, you find yourself under 30% in an eyeblink, no matter how geared or skilled you are...

 

The only issue I have with Juggs is more of an issue I have with standard MMO diminishing return implimentations vs. horrendous resolve system in SWTOR.

 

It's not really the Juggs fault that Bioware can't comprehend CC mechanics that were fixed in the industry 7 years ago.

 

BTW there are boatloads of nerf threads regarding the Melee classes.

 

I prefer they just buff the survivability and give some interrupt protection to range classes (example mercs) instead of nerfing everyone.

 

It's clear that Bioware hasn't absolutely no idea as to what they're doing in regards to PVP.

 

The more "resources" they dedicate to PvP the worse it gets.