Let's cut the posturing and look at the facts. Plenty of people have cleared this flashpoint with two melee DPS. You stand behind the boss. When coils land, the tank moves the boss to a safe location, and faces him towards the next destination. Since you're melee DPS and you have no reason to ever move off the boss (most of the time, even if the boss isn't moving because of a cast, you can still DPS him from the side and stay out of bad stuff... you know, apply a tiny fragment of thought to what you're doing), you can interrupt Incinerate. Rinse and repeat.

 

.

 

I'm still wondering why melee dps are any problem on the robot. Oh yes, if the tank is bad and can't tank a mob while moving, I can see, but otherwise ?

 

We recently went on this boss with 2 people who had very low experience of the boss, including the tank. It only took 1 try to kill it with 2 melee dps. Just because the tank was explained what to do, just because a melee dps was taking care of incinerate. I agree a lot of things are happening there, but OP is wrong when he thinks that this content is not doable. The damage output on this encounter is not even over the top. It is only if incinerate is not interrupted and if dps stands in electical bubble. Other than that it's a very standard damage taken output encounter.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Nolenthar

I wish the people who are so offended by Lost Island's "difficulty" could just manage to look at it from a different perspective.

 

I enjoy the game when I actually get to play it. As in, when I'm actually required to think about what I'm doing, and when stupid mistakes get punished. LI HM and EC HM is the only content in this game where that happens (well, perhaps healing J&S on KP NiM might just qualify as well, although it's more of a HPS check). Everything else - tier 1 ops, HM flashpoints, story denova - can be sleepwalked through.

 

I don't say this with the intention of boasting, and I don't think everything in this game should be rock hard. It's just that, frankly, this game is not very hard at all, and for those of us who derive enjoyment from matching ourselves against a challenge and striving to perform well, we have one operation and one flashpoint. Surely that's not too much to ask? Discussing the loot drops vs effort required is one thing, but does the flashpoint really need a nerf? Is it really so bad to have one lone piece of 4-man content with a modicum of challenge?

 

You fail to see the picture clearly, all your interested in is if the game provides you with the challenge you desire. Look at it this way there are 2 types of players, raiders and non raiders (which is made up of a significant proportion of casuals). Raiders end game content are raids...pretty simple so far, and for non raiders/casuals there are flashpoints....why?. Because they can be generally completed in 30min to an hour and dont require co-ordination in many cases.

 

HM LI is a mini raid being passed off as a flashpoint, good for those that want a challenge but a dissaster for many of the casual community. Take away their end game content and gear progression and many become bored and will unsub. Give the casuals their flashpoints for entertainment and we can keep our raids ( and difficulty) that way all parties are happy. For if we lose the casual component of the playerbase the game is as good as dead.

 

And for the recoed I have completed HM LI

Casuals can do the story mode and still experience all the same content as everyone else.

 

Why is it that some players assume only raiders are interested in gear progression? I know many casual players who's sole purpose of doing dailies & flashpoints is all about gear progression and storymode doesnt provide that which is why players run HM.

Im sorry but how does this hurt casuals?

 

If they are as you say doing the other fps like bread and butter then after they have geared up the only thing hindering them from completing it would be knowing how to do the bosses :/

 

If there wasnt LI people would complain about fps being weak because there is your complaining it doesnt hand you rakata gear on a plate?

 

Silly boy, no one capable of doing HM LI is running it for gear lol...........we do it for the weekly 8 black hole badges and the blue speeder (which I have). You want Rakata gear then run HM EV & KP it's easier than HM LI

Edited July 2, 2012 by NoxiousAlby

You fail to see the picture clearly, all your interested in is if the game provides you with the challenge you desire. Look at it this way there are 2 types of players, raiders and non raiders (which is made up of a significant proportion of casuals). Raiders end game content are raids...pretty simple so far, and for non raiders/casuals there are flashpoints....why?. Because they can be generally completed in 30min to an hour and dont require co-ordination in many cases.

That's just beyond ridiculous. You're basically drawing up these arbitrary rules whereby serious players should only be doing 8-man or above content, and attaching a minimum duration to it.

 

First, I don't always have another seven players handy to form a raid group. Second, and more importantly, I like smaller group content. Group interaction is more personal, it's much less prone to stoppage, and I just like the combat dynamics. Furthermore, am I to believe that I'm only allowed to enjoy semi-challenging content if I can devote two to four hours at a time? I'm just not allowed to get three friends and have fun playing something shorter? I'm not going to say what I think of that proposition, because I'd start violating the code of conduct around here, but rest assured that I find your nonsensical assertions borderline offensive.

 

I'd also like to know where story EV and KP fit in your little collection of rules, seeing as they clearly have little relevance for serious players, and many casuals are (gasp) raiding in these instances.

 

As someone else has already highlighted, you have ten other flashpoints that you can faceroll. TEN. And you're still not happy because Lost Island violates your ridiculously strict and arbitrary laws about how content should be tuned. Well, too bad. We have only one lone flashpoint and one raid that has any degree of difficulty. Just leave us alone

 

I'm also confused as to how the following two assertions can be simultaneously possible:

 

1. No one clears LI for the gear.

2. LI is a "disaster" for the casual community because it blocks their gear progression.

 

...huh? Besides which, players of any calibre can now get almost full BiS gear with the ridiculous number of BH comms available. "Casuals" (I'm not a fan of the label, but now's not the time for that discussion) get a large portion of the best gear in the game handed to them on a plate, and have the vast majority of endgame content tuned for them. Isn't this enough for you? Don't you have some actual issues worth complaining about?

Edited July 2, 2012 by Aurojiin

Lots of talk about casual players here, well I am a casual player. If you ask me I think the best way to design a mmo is to make the good gear available in 2 ways: Hard content, or very slowly through easy content. So what have Bio done? They have made LI and EC hard to do and drop the good stuff and they have made Tier 1 FP and Ops easier to do and drop Black Hole comms (if you use the random group finder). I think that looks just about right to me. Since I have a vested interrest I checked and it will take me 7 days on the random finder to buy a Black Hole headpiece. Looks about right to me am I wrong?

I think Lost Island HM has the exact level of difficulty, that beating it requires both decent gear and skills from all the players, and yet it's not too hard that it becomes an "elites only" Flashpoint.

 

Speaking from experience as a tank, the first time I encountered the first boss, I was slightly undergeared (missing 2 Columi pieces), and I totally panicked. But after a couple of runs (5), we picked up the rhythm, and we finally beat the boss. The process might be long and painful, but in the end it was fun and rewarding, because it required more teamwork than before, and what's MMO without teamwork?

 

Now after having beaten LI HM a couple of times, it's still fun, because even now I have better gear, you still need the concentration and the cooperation from the players in order to succeed. You can allow yourself one or two mistakes, which is great, but screwing up a bit too much will still cost you, even if the whole team is on Rakata gear. For me it's the only challenging Flashpoint in the game, and no, I do not want Bioware to nerf it, because then the whole game will be a joke, if every content in every mode can be lead by a undergeared/skilled tank who has one of his eyes closed during Boss fight.

That's just beyond ridiculous. You're basically drawing up these arbitrary rules whereby serious players should only be doing 8-man or above content, and attaching a minimum duration to it.

 

First, I don't always have another seven players handy to form a raid group. Second, and more importantly, I like smaller group content. Group interaction is more personal, it's much less prone to stoppage, and I just like the combat dynamics. Furthermore, am I to believe that I'm only allowed to enjoy semi-challenging content if I can devote two to four hours at a time? I'm just not allowed to get three friends and have fun playing something shorter? I'm not going to say what I think of that proposition, because I'd start violating the code of conduct around here, but rest assured that I find your nonsensical assertions borderline offensive.

Well if you find common sense offensive....then bad luck

If you prefer 4 man content over 8 man content but want the same raid style mechanics then might I suggest you petition BW to introduce 4 man Ops. because you would fall into the extreme minority of players capable of clearing difficult content but prefering 4 man content. I also fail to see how pleasing players such as yourself is good for the game when content to please you will exclude the greater majority casual players.

 

I'd also like to know where story EV and KP fit in your little collection of rules, seeing as they clearly have little relevance for serious players, and many casuals are (gasp) raiding in these instances.

It's elementary my dear Watson, any raider worth their grain of salt geared their character in Columi by running SM EV & KP. From there we ventured into HM EV & KP for Rakata..............& then EC

Aso I would change "many" to "some" of which quite a few would be raiders alt characters. Theres a reason many players wont raid and the number 1 answer would be "they dont want to encounter players such as yourself". I know friends who wont raid and regardless of the difficulty they still refuse to raid, because they have no desire to have to put up with the flotsam of society.

As someone else has already highlighted, you have ten other flashpoints that you can faceroll. TEN. And you're still not happy because Lost Island violates your ridiculously strict and arbitrary laws about how content should be tuned. Well, too bad. We have only one lone flashpoint and one raid that has any degree of difficulty. Just leave us alone

 

Is it acceptable for non raiders to clear the same 9 FP for the last 7 months? With the only new puggable addition being Kaon. I'm happy with HM KP & EC, I dont need 4 man content to challenge myself with and would rather allow other segments of the community to have what they enjoy. If non raiders want to run HM LI to get their badges and blue speeder I say let them (I prefer the red one anyway). I just dont see why we should be demanding difficult content in 8 & 16 man as well as 4 man, but then again i'm not that selfish.

 

I'm also confused as to how the following two assertions can be simultaneously possible:

 

1. No one clears LI for the gear.

Seriously you didnt understand ? Raiders dont run HM LI for gear, there is nothing that drops in that flashpoint/mini raid that cant be picked up from either HM EV or KP. So i'll say it again, raiders dont run HM LI for gear.

2. LI is a "disaster" for the casual community because it blocks their gear progression.

Whereas for non raiding/casual players the only place Rakata drops is HM LI (the chest), and it is the only place many of them will ever get Rakata from.

 

So to summarise raiders dont run HM LI for gear but casuals/non raiders do, as the chest is the only upgrade obtainable through 4 man content.

 

...huh? Besides which, players of any calibre can now get almost full BiS gear with the ridiculous number of BH comms available. "Casuals" (I'm not a fan of the label, but now's not the time for that discussion) get a large portion of the best gear in the game handed to them on a plate, and have the vast majority of endgame content tuned for them. Isn't this enough for you? Don't you have some actual issues worth complaining about?

Either you arent as far along as you claim to be in HM EC or your jumping on the band wagon wanting to return to the days of the special snowflake.

Yes casuals can get Black hole gear MK 1...........................are you seriously going to tell me that it's on par with the MK 2 & 3 Black Hole gear we can get? not to mention campiagn gear. I read the QQ about BH badges being readily accessible and laughed, no matter how hard or long casuals try to gear themselves their gear will always be inferior as the game currently stands. But again i'm not one of those players who spends all his time worrying about everyone else and what they have, I only concern myself with what I have.

Edited July 2, 2012 by LexiCazam
Removed rude comments

Lots of talk about casual players here, well I am a casual player. If you ask me I think the best way to design a mmo is to make the good gear available in 2 ways: Hard content, or very slowly through easy content. So what have Bio done? They have made LI and EC hard to do and drop the good stuff and they have made Tier 1 FP and Ops easier to do and drop Black Hole comms (if you use the random group finder). I think that looks just about right to me. Since I have a vested interrest I checked and it will take me 7 days on the random finder to buy a Black Hole headpiece. Looks about right to me am I wrong?

 

I'm not overly impressed with the BH gear, like the look but not the stats and in many cases the stats are actually unsuitable for many classes. Campaign gear is the bomb but you need to run EC for that, I suggest you check what modifications are beneficial in the BH gear and take them out to put in your Columi gear (if thats what your wearing) to keep the 4 set bonus.

I think Lost Island HM has the exact level of difficulty, that beating it requires both decent gear and skills from all the players, and yet it's not too hard that it becomes an "elites only" Flashpoint.

 

Speaking from experience as a tank, the first time I encountered the first boss, I was slightly undergeared (missing 2 Columi pieces), and I totally panicked. But after a couple of runs (5), we picked up the rhythm, and we finally beat the boss. The process might be long and painful, but in the end it was fun and rewarding, because it required more teamwork than before, and what's MMO without teamwork?

 

Now after having beaten LI HM a couple of times, it's still fun, because even now I have better gear, you still need the concentration and the cooperation from the players in order to succeed. You can allow yourself one or two mistakes, which is great, but screwing up a bit too much will still cost you, even if the whole team is on Rakata gear. For me it's the only challenging Flashpoint in the game, and no, I do not want Bioware to nerf it, because then the whole game will be a joke, if every content in every mode can be lead by a undergeared/skilled tank who has one of his eyes closed during Boss fight.

 

I say Kudos to you and well done !

 

As I told the OP a few pages back, if they are willing to be patient and work on the flashpoint a day a week (not to become to frustrated) they will eventually improve and succeed in completing it. Which is what you did, you worked at it, but I just cant help but think that HM LI will discourage far more players than it will encourage.

Silly boy, no one capable of doing HM LI is running it for gear lol...........we do it for the weekly 8 black hole badges and the blue speeder (which I have). You want Rakata gear then run HM EV & KP it's easier than HM LI

 

I have ran LI on my alts for gear, i have ran it with my merc dps, when he was basically in tionese and worse, he still pulled about 800 -900 dps, and we had no problems. I tank it on my darksin who is half columi and rakata, and never once have had a problem with it; I have even tanked it with a healer wearing lvl 40 green and blues (was desperate for a healer and didnt mind the repair bill if i had gotten one), he died on the droid about 80% into it, but still was able to get it down. I have tanked it with a healer in full rakata though, who couldnt keep up with heals on the second boss.

 

I have also healed the flashpoint quite a bit on my healer, but never for gear on him.

 

What i dont get is people talk so much about gear checks and things of that nature, and how gear makes or breaks flash points, but people never talked about how correctly itemized columi is better then non re-itemized rakata, that gear for the most part means nothing if a person doesnt take the time to go through every piece of it and min/max it.

I'm not overly impressed with the BH gear, like the look but not the stats and in many cases the stats are actually unsuitable for many classes. Campaign gear is the bomb but you need to run EC for that, I suggest you check what modifications are beneficial in the BH gear and take them out to put in your Columi gear (if thats what your wearing) to keep the 4 set bonus.

 

Campaign isn't "the bomb" at all, in fact, in order to get BiS gear, you need to mix Campaign with BH. It's total rubbish how BiS gear can be obtained by queuing for these face-roll flashpoints every day just because the casual community doesn't want to put the time and effort in to progress through Ops.

 

I sincerely hope EC HM (or LI HM) will never be nerfed, since they were (and still are for many) a good challenge. While content should still be accessible to "those who can't" (in other words, casuals), there is always Story Mode which is perfectly accessible.

 

On topic, the Flashpoint is challenging, I don't see how this is a problem, I've done LI HM in many PuG groups with no voice communication, mediocre gear and making a few mistakes with boss strategies, it just requires a brain and a bit of teamwork unlike the other HM FP's which can be practically carried by one well geared DPS. If LI was as easy as say, Taral V, I'm sure many more people would have complained about how the content is easy than they are now with regards to how "hard" it is.

 

I'm not elitist in any way, I only worry for the future of this game if all the content was homogenized in difficulty and became more of a story experience as the casual players are seemingly demanding.

Edited July 2, 2012 by vesani

stuff

 

I'm sorry, but it's just you. Seeing a game population as "raider"/"not raider" is quite close-minded. First of all, FP were not designed for the "non raiders". They were designed for the players, whether they are crafters, PvPers, levellers, altoholics, or event raiders. I personnally don't see the game restricted : You do PvP, don't come PvE ! Seriously ?

 

Second, a 4-man doesn't have to "offer no challenge, requires no coordination". It's your view on the situation only.

 

SWTOR does many things really good, and that is tuning content. There is 2 content in this game giving challenge to the most competitive crowd (a very large competitive crowd, cause none are overtuned). Those players don't have any challenge anywhere else (well, I myself have because I ended up 2-manning HM, that's how hard the content is), and you complain about the only content which requires them to make friends and learn to play together ? MMO gaming you know ?

 

And about the content, what you enlight is true as well for everyone. Only 2 HM were added, and that gave 10 HM for the "non competitive players" and 1 HM for the other ones.

Take LI off the Speeder quest and most casuals will forget it exists after their first foray there for the Rakghoul Weekly.

 

I'm a casual but I enjoy raiding when I get the chance, I've yet to clear it but it gives me a goal and I like that. I don't think I've wiped on more than 2 HM FPs in the last month and one of those was a PUG D7 run with no-one having done it before.

 

Now D7 HM, there is a fun one to run in a recruit geared party without voip.

Here is a random gripe about a boss that dead ended my group the on time I went. The Savrap sample. We quickly figured out how to deal with his stomp and to click the consoles when he jumps up. However the spit was doing like monster damage with impunity.

 

According to what I hear the group has to spread out to avoid splash damage. Each of us were at a separate console and from what I could see the ehaler was in the middle but we were all still taking epic damage the healer couldn't heal us through and getting destroyed. Either the healer was not very well geared or maybe the recert 1.3 patch did something to the boss's spit to make it uber epic. My thoughts at the time was like, either lessen the spit damage or shorten the casting time of console.

Here is a random gripe about a boss that dead ended my group the on time I went. The Savrap sample. We quickly figured out how to deal with his stomp and to click the consoles when he jumps up. However the spit was doing like monster damage with impunity.

 

According to what I hear the group has to spread out to avoid splash damage. Each of us were at a separate console and from what I could see the ehaler was in the middle but we were all still taking epic damage the healer couldn't heal us through and getting destroyed. Either the healer was not very well geared or maybe the recert 1.3 patch did something to the boss's spit to make it uber epic. My thoughts at the time was like, either lessen the spit damage or shorten the casting time of console.

 

That phase is supposed to be a healing check - as long as your healer has decent gear they should be able to clear it fine. I've done it 3 times since 1.3, twice on my healer and once on my dps, and neither had issues. It does make it easier if you have a sage or commando as one of your dps but that isn't necessary at all.

Yes casuals can get Black hole gear MK 1...........................are you seriously going to tell me that it's on par with the MK 2 & 3 Black Hole gear we can get? not to mention campiagn gear. I read the QQ about BH badges being readily accessible and laughed, no matter how hard or long casuals try to gear themselves their gear will always be inferior as the game currently stands.

It never ceases to amaze me how little understanding people have of gearing in this game. I've lost count of the number of posts I've made explaining this in detail, but I'm not going to bother at this point. Hint: if you think Campaign and BH MK2+ gear is universally better than vendor BH gear... you have a lot to learn. Fact of the matter is that 90% - more or less - of BiS gear for any class can be acquired without ever stepping foot in a raid.

 

As for the rest of the discussion, let's just drop it. It's clear that no one will convince you of the ridiculousness of your "raider"/"non-raider" divide, and I suspect that if you're so selfish and/or stubborn that you can't begrudge one single 4-man instance that requires players to be awake, rationality isn't your strong suit at any rate.

I actually really like LI (hm). Yeah, it's difficult but when you are done you are a much better player because of it. Interrupts are hardly needed or used before LI but you can't get through the Flash Point without putting them to good use and then you are so used to using them that you begin to use them in every instance. Cleanse, Purge, etc. are also valuable and separates the healers who can pass LI and those who can't. Had two healers in LI with both in Rakata and a well geared DPS and I kept dying on the droid... I called it and grabbed a healer who was much less geared and two DPS and we ran through it with no deaths.

I do think it should offer better gear (different gear), I would like to see the end boss have another mechanic added (too predictable), and the invisible incinerate fixed (only happens at start of fight).

My suggestion is to bind your fast Interrupt to the "F" key. If you heal then make sure you have your "cleanse" power handy.

LI is a team effort. Some teams just don't interact that well together and others interact as one being.

What i dont get is people talk so much about gear checks and things of that nature, and how gear makes or breaks flash points, but people never talked about how correctly itemized columi is better then non re-itemized rakata, that gear for the most part means nothing if a person doesnt take the time to go through every piece of it and min/max it.

 

No arguement from me here, both Rakata & Black hole gear is poorly itemized in terms of stats, Your right in saying that modifications need to be made to min/max your dps.

It never ceases to amaze me how little understanding people have of gearing in this game. I've lost count of the number of posts I've made explaining this in detail, but I'm not going to bother at this point. Hint: if you think Campaign and BH MK2+ gear is universally better than vendor BH gear... you have a lot to learn. Fact of the matter is that 90% - more or less - of BiS gear for any class can be acquired without ever stepping foot in a raid.

BIS without stepping foot in a raid? for most players with limited credits?.................next you'll be telling me how you detailed evidence that pigs can fly.

 

As for the rest of the discussion, let's just drop it. It's clear that no one will convince you of the ridiculousness of your "raider"/"non-raider" divide, and I suspect that if you're so selfish and/or stubborn that you can't begrudge one single 4-man instance that requires players to be awake, rationality isn't your strong suit at any rate.

What you consider ridiculous I see as necessary for a healthy game, Cataclysm seems more your style of MMO and we all know how that turned out for Blizzard. Rationality is something I have in abundance hence my wish for raiders and casuals alike to receive enjoyment of this game, your self inflated ego and attitude of entitlement however is something I thankfully dont have.

 

For the record i'm not begrudging anyone anything unlike yourself, I run HM Ops. I also clear HM LI once a week rotating guildies to give everyone the chance in our guild to obtain the blue speeder. I think that FP regardless of their tier should be achieveable by all causual players, if i'm in the mood for a challenge i'll invite guild members who dont normaly run HM EC to run it with me. Now compare your attitude to mine and see which of us is selfish & stubborn.

Edited July 2, 2012 by NoxiousAlby

BIS without stepping foot in a raid? for most players with limited credits?.................next you'll be telling me how you detailed evidence that pigs can fly.

In your defence, there's a lot of players who don't understand gearing in this game (despite it not being very complex). I'd recommend you spend a little time getting to grips with it, rather than continuing to embarrass yourself further.

 

What you consider ridiculous I see as necessary for a healthy game, Cataclysm seems more your style of MMO and we all know how that turned out for Blizzard. Rationality is something I have in abundance hence my wish for raiders and casuals alike to receive enjoyment of this game, your self inflated ego and attitude of entitlement however is something I thankfully dont have.

Holy crap. It's really quite amazing.

 

There's ten flashpoints for "casuals" and one flashpoint with a degree of challenge. My desire to preserve that lone flashpoint makes me "entitled" (the most abused word on the internet next to "irony" these days). This is despite my constant and repeated assertions that I'm happy for 95% of the game to remain casual friendly.

 

For the record i'm not begrudging anyone anything unlike yourself, I run HM Ops. I also clear HM LI once a week rotating guildies to give everyone the chance in our guild to obtain the blue speeder. I think that FP regardless of their tier should be achieveable by all causual players, if i'm in the mood for a challenge i'll invite guild members who dont normaly run HM EC to run it with me. Now compare your attitude to mine and see which of us is selfish & stubborn.

Yes, you. You're begrudging players who enjoy content that requires their attention the only 4-man instance they have in the game.

 

Your distinctions are nonsensical. Many, many "casual" players raid. Many "hardcore raiders" enjoy smaller group content. If Bioware's smart they'll continue to provide a range of content to appeal to different elements of their audience. If they can't see the forest for the trees, they'll start drawing arbitrary lines in the sand and alienate more players.

Campaign isn't "the bomb" at all, in fact, in order to get BiS gear, you need to mix Campaign with BH. It's total rubbish how BiS gear can be obtained by queuing for these face-roll flashpoints every day just because the casual community doesn't want to put the time and effort in to progress through Ops.

Dont kid yourself.............

You would you rather modify Rakata gear to keep the set bonus or modify Campaign gear for the set bonus?

Thankyou.......Campaign gear is the bomb, the fact that it needs to be modified because the stats arent always suited to the class (both Rakata & Campaign) is a problem not of our doing.

Me personaly I swap modifications around from BH MK 2 &3 into my Campaign gear, last time I checked you cant be BIS just from acquiring BH gear MK 1 so stop making false assumptions that anyone can be BIS just from acquiring BH MK 1 gear.

 

I sincerely hope EC HM (or LI HM) will never be nerfed, since they were (and still are for many) a good challenge. While content should still be accessible to "those who can't" (in other words, casuals), there is always Story Mode which is perfectly accessible.

I dont see this happening as the squeeky wheel makes the most noise, that being us raiders who QQ louder and more frequently than the majority of causuals who never come onto the forums.

 

On topic, the Flashpoint is challenging, I don't see how this is a problem, I've done LI HM in many PuG groups with no voice communication, mediocre gear and making a few mistakes with boss strategies, it just requires a brain and a bit of teamwork unlike the other HM FP's which can be practically carried by one well geared DPS. If LI was as easy as say, Taral V, I'm sure many more people would have complained about how the content is easy than they are now with regards to how "hard" it is.

Last time I checked the enrage timers on bosses dont allow players to be carried and you certainly make it sound easier than most players have encountered.

 

I'm not elitist in any way, I only worry for the future of this game if all the content was homogenized in difficulty and became more of a story experience as the casual players are seemingly demanding.

You most certainly are elitist, I draw your attention to your paragraph 2. We are a minority in RPGMMO's these days a fact that many raiders seem to ignore. Why shouldnt the majority of the playerbase be demanding? Given that all end game content is created to suit out needs, that BIS is achievable only at our level.

It's the same rubbish time and time again in every MMO that caters to us, when the majhority of players have difficulty or disagree with how we perceive the game should be we jump up and down like petulent children telling them to L2P.

We have our raids and BW now understands the level of difficulty that raiders are looking for, let the non raiding community have their 4 mans. Unless like Aurojiin you want it all

Edited July 2, 2012 by NoxiousAlby

In your defence, there's a lot of players who don't understand gearing in this game (despite it not being very complex). I'd recommend you spend a little time getting to grips with it, rather than continuing to embarrass yourself further.

Dont flatter yourself, the only thing thats been embarrassing in this conversation has been your selfish entitled attitude.

 

Holy crap. It's really quite amazing.

 

There's ten flashpoints for "casuals" and one flashpoint with a degree of challenge. My desire to preserve that lone flashpoint makes me "entitled" (the most abused word on the internet next to "irony" these days). This is despite my constant and repeated assertions that I'm happy for 95% of the game to remain casual friendly.

Fine then add the Rakata chest and blue speeder to Kaon Under Seige, because thats why many casuals want to run HM LI otherwise make it achievable for 95% of players. As i've said before I dont care but I certainly hear plenty of players who are dissillusioned with it.

 

Yes, you. You're begrudging players who enjoy content that requires their attention the only 4-man instance they have in the game.

Have you ever experienced a flashpoint or instance that couldnt be pugged with any level of success? I havent, not through vanilla, TBC, Wotlk or Cata and yet HM LI is a pug breaker. These players who post that they regularly pug HM LI are either very lucky or just plain kidding themselves. The mechanics are unforgiving and the enrage timers on the bosses require minimum dps output. Is this achievable by the average player?

 

Your distinctions are nonsensical. Many, many "casual" players raid. Many "hardcore raiders" enjoy smaller group content. If Bioware's smart they'll continue to provide a range of content to appeal to different elements of their audience. If they can't see the forest for the trees, they'll start drawing arbitrary lines in the sand and alienate more players.

As I said previously why on earth would you add content that the majority of players cant complete and offer rewards that everyone of the players participating in the 95% (rubbish percentage) of easier content would want. And yet for the majority of players running HM LI nothing drops in that flashpoint that is of any use.

Dont kid yourself.............

You would you rather modify Rakata gear to keep the set bonus or modify Campaign gear for the set bonus?

Thankyou.......Campaign gear is the bomb, the fact that it needs to be modified because the stats arent always suited to the class (both Rakata & Campaign) is a problem not of our doing.

Me personaly I swap modifications around from BH MK 2 &3 into my Campaign gear, last time I checked you cant be BIS just from acquiring BH gear MK 1 so stop making false assumptions that anyone can be BIS just from acquiring BH MK 1 gear

Dear Lord, I actually have to break this down.

 

BH MK-1 through 3 all have 61 mods in them. They just have different itemisations; the tiers have the same stat budgets.

 

Campaign also has 61 armourings/mods/enhancements; it's not inherently superior to BH MK-1 in any way. For any piece of moddable gear that you can purchase from the vendor (head, gloves, chest, pants, boots), you can achieve BiS by simply dismantling the appropriate pieces of BH gear and using tier 1 shells (if you have a set bonus worth preserving; for some ACs this doesn't even matter).

 

Let's take my main (Sage healer) as a case study. There's only three things that have to be acquired from raiding:

 

1. The BIS earpiece would theoretically be a BH drop. i've never heard of anyone getting it on any server, so in practice everyone just uses the Rakata earpiece (daily comms).

2. You need unlocked armourings for bracers/belt. These can be found on the GTN occasionally.

3. Mainhand 61 hilt; there's no BH mainhand.

 

Campaign obviously offers the benefit of preserving set bonuses with your choice of appearance although it's important to note that two Campaign pieces have Force Wielder armouring; ergo they're actually not BiS and you will need to use BH armourings and at least one tier 1 shell to preserve your 4-piece bonus.

 

So, practically speaking, you can achieve complete BiS for my main's class with the exception of the mainhand hilt. The story is pretty much the same for everyone (with class-specific variations such as those with moddable offhands etc).

 

Have you ever experienced a flashpoint or instance that couldnt be pugged with any level of success?

I've successfully pugged LI multiple times. It's not a pug breaker, it's a bad-player-breaker.

 

As I said previously why on earth would you add content that the majority of players cant complete and offer rewards that everyone of the players participating in the 95% (rubbish percentage) of easier content would want. And yet for the majority of players running HM LI nothing drops in that flashpoint that is of any use.

Well, let's drop HM EC then, because the majority of players can't complete that. If hardcore players are such a pointless minority it would seem better to give them a few challenging flashpoints than entire raids, but I digress.

 

I'd like you to point me to where I said the loot drops in HM LI were appropriately tuned. I'm advocating preserving the flashpoint's degree of challenge, nothing more. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Aurojiin

I think that FP regardless of their tier should be achieveable by all causual players,

 

You're clearly mistaking casual players for bad players. As others said before, the only thing required in LI is actually to use all the tools the game gave you (interrupt, cleansing, etc) which others FP don't force you to. If you want my opinion, the problem doesn't rely on LI, it relies in overnerfed content which never encouraged players to learn to use their ability, or to work as a team. Casual players can and will clear LI HM without any problems.