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The problem with a lot of classes in PVP


Delani

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Fair but every class needs more strength and weakness, the decay idea is good but is it going to make the gameplay more fun? I agree that every class shouldnt be like operatives but every class needs an "out" like operative. I dont care what is but lets be honest, some classes are lacking something. Maybe it isnt movement but its something.

 

I can agree with this to a point. I think each class should have some form of anti focus ( a brief cloak, period of extreme damage reduction, or increased parry / dodge ) I was simply addressing your earlier comments specifically. Something does need to be done, but an additional breaker isn't the answer.

 

A question that should be asked though. If mercs / Ops didn't have their moment of extreme cheesiness, would any of the above be necessary? If those classes couldn't fight outnumbered as well as they do I think we'd have a lot less to complain about in general.

 

Right now everyone wants to be as OP as them. That isn't the answer.

Edited by Dyne-
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new xpacks are never balanced. my sub runs out long before, so I won't have to worry about it, but...yeah. that's a pipe dream. small changes require constant updates, and that definitely isn't happening.

 

Agreed lol.

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I can agree with this to a point. I think each class should have some form of anti focus ( a brief cloak, period of extreme danger reduction, or increased parry / dodge ) I was simply addressing your earlier comments specifically. Something does need to be done, but an additional breaker isn't the answer.

 

A question that should be asked though. If mercs / Ops didn't have their moment of extreme cheesiness, would any of the above be necessary? If those classes couldn't fight outnumbered as well as they do I think we'd have a lot less to complain about in general.

 

Right now everyone wants to be as OP as them. That isn't the answer.

 

Nope!!! buffing mercs, and maras definately threw off the balance. Nerfing them now might make certain players unhappy so i personally beleive buffing other classes is the way to go especailly since they are adding new abilities in September. What I was suggesting as an anti-focus is something like sorces casting stuff from the dead (like the eso abilitiy) or a tactical item that allows you to summon your companion while in a warzone (LOL). Something that requires skill and its new. Theres already enough cloak. Well find out what bioware has planned for us when all the classes are on the PTS but i just hope its creative. Without ruining the purpose of classes lol

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Theres already enough cloak. Well find out what bioware has planned for us when all the classes are on the PTS but i just hope its creative. Without ruining the purpose of classes lol

 

If I could cast from the dead i'd probably main sorc lmao. Whatever they do as an anti-focus i'd make them the same in function, but visually look different as to fit with the class and the lore behind the character. ( ex: saber users deflecting, sorcs using tutaminis, bounty hunters / commandos using shields or jetpacking ). I agree there's enough cloak, and whatever they do I just want it to be good.

 

I gotta jet, was nice talking to you though. Good luck in your warzones!

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Yes!!! I honestly agree with most of what you said, the problem with the pvp is that it is too mundane and repetitve, we know what each class has and exactly how to fight it. We need more creativity which is what I was saying the entire time. In regards to the post you responded to, I was just stating the reason why certain classes are op and why certain classes are not and the root of this issue is hard stuns. We need more creativity and innovative ideas that will allow each class to feel unique and different without adding more of what is already in the game. Do you have any ideas at all that might work rather than what you think would not work?

 

Well, they are introducing these tactical and amplifiers in 6.0; that are supposed to liven things up.

 

Besides that, the only other thing I can think of is nerf / remove a lot of the stuns, immunities and speed abilities back to the 1.2 - 2.0 meta when classes still felt unique and we didn’t have stun wars vs speed wars.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Sure, it doesnt change the fact that pt and sins need something to make them more viable. Hopefully people can come up with good ideas that dont make the game more mundane.

 

On this we agree ^

I just don’t think they need more dps. They already do a lot of damage if you have enough uptime. Deceptions burst is great and really fast. Even if the individual numbers seem low, they all hit with a really small window to deal a big window burst.

 

What I mean by killing mercs and Mara’s is a good sin can wear them down. Remember a Mara can’t self heal or stealth out and break combat and then heal. Eventually a Mara will die.

With a Merc you can literally stealth out and cc them when they try to heal, then come out of stealth and heal up in front of them. It’s not about a stand up facetank fight, it’s about wearing them down. It’s also why Operatives are the best at 1v1. Not because they have the highest dps, but because they can wear any class down (Sins are just a weaker version).

 

PTs also have really dangerous damage. It’s their DCDs that a slightly weak. But that’s a difficult one to get right because of there great dps potential. If you aren’t careful in buffing them, they could easily become OP with a small buff.

I won’t pretend to be an expert on a PT. It’s one of my worst classes. So I’ve no suggestions at all on what to do to fix them.

 

What I would like is some extra range on the Deception Sins or for them to remove that GCD change they made last year that’s nerfed the burst window. I personally don’t like the gap closing ability (I want to call it shadow stride? But I think that’s the OP one). Which also leads me to the Operative gap closer. I don’t think that’s needed either (personal opinion).

They should have just left those gap closers to PTs and Warriors. By adding those gap closing type abilities to other classes, it takes away the uniqueness of other classes. It’s the same with everyone having speed abilities now.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Fair but every class needs more strength and weakness, the decay idea is good but is it going to make the gameplay more fun? I agree that every class shouldnt be like operatives but every class needs an "out" like operative. I dont care what is but lets be honest, some classes are lacking something. Maybe it isnt movement but its something.

 

I would like to see more damage and more weakness on my lightning Sorc, nerf off healing and a little nerf to self heal and give them proper single target burst damage similar to other burst classes. I would love to see dots removed entirely from the spec and have all lightning type abilities

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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new xpacks are never balanced. my sub runs out long before, so I won't have to worry about it, but...yeah. that's a pipe dream. small changes require constant updates, and that definitely isn't happening.

 

Agreed. I am concerned how they think they will be able to balance properly with these tacticals and amplifiers

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I would like to see more damage and more weakness on my lightning Sorc, nerf off healing and a little nerf to self heal and give them proper single target burst damage similar to other burst classes. I would love to see dots removed entirely from the spec and have all lightning type abilities

 

I think Musco mentioned having more single burst dmg, He and the combat team know people love their sorc toons, so I tihnk they will take good care of that class. I just hope they implement something that suprises us

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The classes you mentioned having additional cc breakers would become hilariously OP in the hands of a good player. I know players that play Sorcs, Sins, and PTs that would crush with that kind of freedom. It would be like giving me cc immunity and damage resistance on leap on my Rage Jugg. People would be begging for nerfs if that was a thing.

 

 

 

 

Btw I just realized what you said here and why is that a problem? Players that are good should be able to crush with a certain degree of freedom.

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Btw I just realized what you said here and why is that a problem? Players that are good should be able to crush with a certain degree of freedom.

 

Because skilled players already crush without having to have an unfair advantage to do it. IMO part of being dangerous in pvp is the ability to reliably manage multiple effects on yourself and your enemy while simultaneously dealing damage and guarding your own weak points in a rapidly changing environment. Having an additional cc breaker would almost remove this burden entirely ( at least for me ) and result in a scenario where we would have almost no constraints. Being lethal in pvp should take actual thought and effort on the part of the player, and the threat of dying should always factor into actions taken by a player in pvp.

 

It doesn't take any abstract thought to realize the problem this would cause if only certain classes had it. It would have to be something everyone has, or no one has.

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Because skilled players already crush without having to have an unfair advantage to do it. IMO part of being dangerous in pvp is the ability to reliably manage multiple effects on yourself and your enemy while simultaneously dealing damage and guarding your own weak points in a rapidly changing environment. Having an additional cc breaker would almost remove this burden entirely ( at least for me ) and result in a scenario where we would have almost no constraints. Being lethal in pvp should take actual thought and effort on the part of the player, and the threat of dying should always factor into actions taken by a player in pvp.

 

It doesn't take any abstract thought to realize the problem this would cause if only certain classes had it. It would have to be something everyone has, or no one has.

 

But if every1 has is it, it wouldnt be class defining. If you are considering the movement suggestions I was showing in that YouTube video as an additional cc breaker then maybe if this type of movement was implemented, with constant tweaks it could become more "balanced" but I personally think that dps sins having a dash abilitiy and increasing their overall agility would make them very suffice.

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Because skilled players already crush without having to have an unfair advantage to do it. IMO part of being dangerous in pvp is the ability to reliably manage multiple effects on yourself and your enemy while simultaneously dealing damage and guarding your own weak points in a rapidly changing environment. Having an additional cc breaker would almost remove this burden entirely ( at least for me ) and result in a scenario where we would have almost no constraints. Being lethal in pvp should take actual thought and effort on the part of the player, and the threat of dying should always factor into actions taken by a player in pvp.

 

It doesn't take any abstract thought to realize the problem this would cause if only certain classes had it. It would have to be something everyone has, or no one has.

 

The thing is because pts and sins lack suffiecient dcds, they need to be harder to pin down or they need their dcds buffed. One or the other would make players who love/main those two classes pretty happy.

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I posted in another thread, but I think that gear will need to be LOCKED IN once players join a match. I'm imagining all of the matchmaking manipulation and people changing Tac, Amps, set bonuses midmatch. It sounds like it might become a counter-fest.
The only thing that needs to remain locked when a match starts is the persons spec. The gear they have they can swap out if they think they need to when ever they are not in combat. The only thing I wish to be able to change before a match starts but after you take the pop are your utilities, but as soon as the match actually starts, then those are locked in too.
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The thing is because pts and sins lack suffiecient dcds, they need to be harder to pin down or they need their dcds buffed. One or the other would make players who love/main those two classes pretty happy.
If they gave back the 30% dr during stuns to both sins and pts, then I would be happy. Sins do not need anything more than that to be viable. I think pts do need something a little more but nothing crazy, maybe something that absorbs the next 3-5 force-tech attacks similar to what mercs have. and definitely make adrenal rush base max% heal to point higher.
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merc asorb is only 2, its pretty much a gimmick "asorb the auto crit) cd.

 

and pts actually have something very similar, the 35% evasion of both yellow and white after sonic missile (I think its called) grants sonic defence. 6 secs of 35% evasion of all damage types. this ability is a mimic of IO mercs "absorb" which is different from arsenals. its grant a 35% def chance to all inc damage types as well for 6 seconds.

 

side note: the 35% dcd is for burst AP only, but its clone is for DoT IO only.

Edited by Seterade
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If they gave back the 30% dr during stuns to both sins and pts, then I would be happy. Sins do not need anything more than that to be viable. I think pts do need something a little more but nothing crazy, maybe something that absorbs the next 3-5 force-tech attacks similar to what mercs have. and definitely make adrenal rush base max% heal to point higher.

 

They should give players choice,

Phaswalk, or stun dr, or evade/agile ability, some force power, etc. that allows players to deal with damage intake and stuns how they would like.

The more choices the better, I just hope what they offer is atleast creative and innovative. But just offereing what you already took away from us is not enough imo.

Edited by Delani
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I posted in another thread, but I think that gear will need to be LOCKED IN once players join a match. I'm imagining all of the matchmaking manipulation and people changing Tac, Amps, set bonuses midmatch. It sounds like it might become a counter-fest.

 

Yeah, it could be a storm in a tea cup if they don’t

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They should give players choice,

Phaswalk, or stun dr, or evade/agile ability, some force power, etc. that allows players to deal with damage intake and stuns how they would like.

The more choices the better, I just hope what they offer is atleast creative and innovative. But just offereing what you already took away from us is not enough imo.

 

Do you play your Sin in ranked or regs?

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The only thing that needs to remain locked when a match starts is the persons spec. The gear they have they can swap out if they think they need to when ever they are not in combat. The only thing I wish to be able to change before a match starts but after you take the pop are your utilities, but as soon as the match actually starts, then those are locked in too.

 

Yeah, I would like to be able to change utilities during a match. I often forget to swap between raid utilities and pvp utilities. With Tac items, set bonuses -- I don't know. I will have to play around with it on the PTS, I guess (once it's on there).

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Yeah, I would like to be able to change utilities during a match. I often forget to swap between raid utilities and pvp utilities. With Tac items, set bonuses -- I don't know. I will have to play around with it on the PTS, I guess (once it's on there).

 

I could see that being a HUGE problem to be fair, Unless you can change the tacts, amps and set bonuses before the timer begins.

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I could see that being a HUGE problem to be fair, Unless you can change the tacts, amps and set bonuses before the timer begins.

 

I don’t like the idea of being able to swap tact’s and Amps. But sometimes you forget to swap out your pve gear for pvp gear before you enter a match. I use one set for pvp and one for pve because of how Bolster works. Although this may or may not be a problem in 6.0. We’ll need to wait and see.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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I don’t like the idea of being able to swap tact’s and Amps. But sometimes you forget to swap out your pve gear for pvp gear before you enter a match. I use one set for pvp and one for pve because of how Bolster works. Although this may or may not be a problem in 6.0. We’ll need to wait and see.

 

If you forget then thats the price you have to pay, its just one match.

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