Let's try and keep the Progression Tracking thread clean, and move all this useless banter here.

 

 

Did D&T kill Op9 and Kephess? Yes, they have. They have posted proof of it. If they weren't the world-first, who was?

Edited June 14, 2013 by Askesis

EDIT:

 

Topic been beaten down to death...

 

Just be careful and no one try to insult or troll anybody else. I think we can all agree to disagree on the the progression race of this Patch. The rules were not as clear cut compared to Nibbon's 16-man NiM division. With cooler heads towards the end of the 2 day forum-drama, now, i think you guys did a really good job on those kills. Especially the bugs you found in those bosses, those will be nothing but help for the devs and everybody else.

 

Personally I just can't wait for my guild to down nim dg so i can finally watch how they will do the rest of the instance.

Fair enough.

 

I do find the petty sniping towards D&T is getting really silly.

^

Edited June 17, 2013 by paowee

This is so easy, show the rule book, a piece of paper here it says things have to happen this way or that way.

If isnt nothing against skiping bosses, a kill is a kill, if the guy that keeps the score and possibly made the rules says is ok then the kill is valid.

If other ppl want to make some other rules and keep track in a diferent way, they should

Personally, this op is full a bugs (ex. last boss jumps to 22% HP to 2% and dies happen to D&T, or when he enter the burn fase and hes HP jump up to 32%) all the kills shouldnt count at all

But i really dont care

Edited June 15, 2013 by ErosGyne

For all intent and purposes, a good portion of the community are going to recognize the kill, another will not, and the majority will not give a damn who did what. What happened has happened.

Kill is kill. Grats on your kills, but you should get reduced points for skipping. Unless there are rules that ban skipping, this should be considered valid kills. Rules need to be made before progression starts.

World firsts after so much practice on PTS is a farce.

 

This is merely another farce on top of that and the whole business calls for eyes to be rolled at the screen when mentioned.

World firsts after so much practice on PTS is a farce.

 

This is merely another farce on top of that and the whole business calls for eyes to be rolled at the screen when mentioned.

 

you mean all 4 hours spent on pts for this? yeah so much practice. Or were you referring to the 9 months that we have had HM TFB to practice on?

you mean all 4 hours spent on pts for this? yeah so much practice. Or were you referring to the 9 months that we have had HM TFB to practice on?

 

No the farce of "D&T skipping a boss, does it matter" is separate to the farce of "people have been downing bosses in NiM TFB well before it was made live but world firsts still matter".

Edited June 15, 2013 by Gyronamics

Kill is kill. Grats on your kills, but you should get reduced points for skipping. Unless there are rules that ban skipping, this should be considered valid kills. Rules need to be made before progression starts.

 

Way to say there should be a new rule (decreased points for skipping bosses) and then say "but no new rules".

Edited June 15, 2013 by namesaretough

No the farce of "D&T skipping a boss, does it matter" is separate to the farce of "people have been downing bosses in NiM TFB well before it was made live but world firsts still matter".

 

PTS was open to everyone in every guild with open transfers of up to date toons for the most recent time. We went in I want to say 1 night with less than ideal comp and checked it out as well as many other guilds. Thats an even playing field. Stop trying to make something out of nothing

The real question is still: "Did DnT beat the bosses while they were working as intended?". You can claim a world first for killing the Terror when all you have to do is just sit there and wait for some poorly written code to kill the boss for you in phase 3 of the fight (which I can only imagine that when it is working as intended, would actually take some effort to survive) but I really don't think that the folk from DnT will even come close to expecting that they have a world first for getting that boss down just from that fight. It also stands to reason that there might be a few more bugs in the operation since you already have 2 fairly significant bugs (at both ends of the spectrum I might add). So if/when the developers decide to fix everything up, if the bosses in TFB NiM have changed in any fashion, then I would suggest that DnT's kills become less valid and they would have to do them again. If a boss doesn't change in mechanics/numbers (Both stated and ninja as we all know BW's penchant for changing numbers here and there without putting it in the patch notes) then DnT's kills are valid. Maybe each fight could be weighted with a certain number of points with regards to it's difficulty? Beating DG would seem to be a fairly intense task and it still hasn't been completed yet, but every other boss in the operation has, so maybe you could say that DG is the hardest fight in the operation so we will give it 1.5 point multiplier? Just suggestions but long story short is: DnT did a great job in killing the bosses, but if they change, then they should have to kill them again, otherwise World Firsts for errybody.

PTS was open to everyone in every guild with open transfers of up to date toons for the most recent time. We went in I want to say 1 night with less than ideal comp and checked it out as well as many other guilds. Thats an even playing field. Stop trying to make something out of nothing

 

I'm not talking to you at all but you keep thinking I am.

 

And its quite the reverse, I'd rather this farce became nothing instead of this bickering over "world first" or "did it count".

My views are as follows:

 

1) Gratz to D&T on the world first kills.

2) Unfortunately the way in which it was achieved should dis qualify you from the progress race competition.

3) Both the 8man and 16man competition rules were badly written, it should be absolutely clear that the kills should be sequential.

4) Due to number 3 D&T should be included in the scores, you can't change the rules after the event unless using the "not in the spirit of competition" argument.

 

Ears

If BW didn't want you to be able to skip bosses, they would lock difficulties once a boss has been killed. With a competent group and appropriately geared If after 5 wipes you can't down a boss, there is something wrong with the encounter. (If you already know 90%+ of the mechanics.)

 

My guild decided to skip DG's after 3 wipes. Broke fight is broke.

Mmmm, normal mode too hard, I keep dying!!!

 

Switch to easy, ahhhh that's better, I am awesome!!!

 

= Difference between a casual and an elitist

World firsts after so much practice on PTS is a farce.

 

 

You know virtually every boss in WoW is tested on PTR before being released. Some of those bosses still take guilds far better than any currently raiding SWTOR guild 300+ attempts to kill on live servers.

 

For all intent and purposes, a good portion of the community are going to recognize the kill, another will not, and the majority will not give a damn who did what. What happened has happened.

 

^

My guild decided to skip DG's after 3 wipes. Broke fight is broke.

 

I find it funny that people go... "If we can't do it in 3 wipes it must be broken!" seriously? Not to bash you or anything but maybe you just weren't good enough those 3 wipes?

 

Its a nightmare raid, it is meant to be hard. Skipping is just taking the easy option when you don't want to be considered for any sort of ranking system. It makes a mockery of the instance.

 

Bug or no bug. the instance order is Horror > Guards > Operatior > Kephess > Terror.

If you do it in any other order and claim those as your kill times then you don't deserve credit for that.

Why on earth would you revive this topic? All it is going to do is start more problems... or was that your intention to begin with? The bottom line is if every guild were to skip the DG then I'm sure there would be plenty of guilds that potentially would have been "first". But the fact is most hardcore guilds are not switching to hm, and getting themselves locked out and basically giving up all progression on the fight. We should not be expecting guilds to smash through content the first day or two it comes out. Where is the difficulty in that? This is nightmare, it is supposed to be just that. Didn't guilds not clear the tanks in EC NiM for a lengthy amount of time? I would rather have a fight like this that would leave me feeling accomplished instead of just another raid to farm. I hope they leave it as is seeing how guilds are getting them farther and farther down each day. Suckafish brought Kel'Sara down to 0% I believe. The fight is not impossible. Edited June 15, 2013 by TrillOG-

ot:

 

Edited June 15, 2013 by paowee

Its a nightmare raid, it is meant to be hard. Skipping is just taking the easy option when you don't want to be considered for any sort of ranking system. It makes a mockery of the instance.

 

Excuse me, but BW made a mockery of that operation ---- Terror bug existing after all this time.

Mmmm, normal mode too hard, I keep dying!!!

 

Switch to easy, ahhhh that's better, I am awesome!!!

 

= Difference between a casual and an elitist

 

Hahaha +1

 

It's still funny how D&T brag about winning "1 man" contest . Congratz! You have beaten competition so hard

For both 8m and 16m progression tracking, guilds should be require to complete the bosses in order on NiM to be given credit for boss kills. Lowering the difficulty on a boss just to get by it because the others are easier is not how progression tracking and racing is meant to be done.

 

So in this case the guild could say they are 4/5 in terms of how many bosses they have killed, but in the progression tracking they should be 1/5 because the 2nd boss, Dread Guard, has not been killed yet. I guess once that boss is killed a guild can then be considered 5/5, but they should not be awarded the point values for the bosses beyond the skipped boss. And since most tracking systems award pts for when you kill bosses and later bosses and final bosses are worth more then I would say the guild needs to rekill those bosses after the 1st kill of the skipped boss and that point in time is when there kill is recorded in the progression tracking.

Mmmm, normal mode too hard, I keep dying!!!

 

Switch to easy, ahhhh that's better, I am awesome!!!

 

= Difference between a casual and an elitist

It's easy to take pot shots at others from an an ivory tower. Have you even set foot in NM TFB? There's no mention of it on your guild website.

No never.....

It's easy to take pot shots at others from an an ivory tower. Have you even set foot in NM TFB? There's no mention of it on your guild website.

 

Friendly Fire has definitely killed the first boss on TFB Nim.

Please do more research before calling a top guild out.