The Jedi of Luke Skywalker's order seemed to be more readily militant than prior Jedi. They frequently trained together as fighter wings, and Luke even adapted the Jedi Code to omit the phrase "never to attack others". I think that this represented a fundamental shift in the philosophy of the new Jedi that Luke was training. Any comments, theories?

This takes place every time the Jedi Order is on the verge of collapse, it is refashioned and adapted to compensate for the weaknesses that had been used against them to be almost wiped out anyway.

The Exile and Luke made some changes, the Ruusan reformation made others, so it has happened throughout the Order's history.

This takes place every time the Jedi Order is on the verge of collapse, it is refashioned and adapted to compensate for the weaknesses that had been used against them to be almost wiped out anyway.

 

The Exile and Luke made some changes, the Ruusan reformation made others, so it has happened throughout the Order's history.

Luke reshaped the Jedi dramatically, however. In some ways he returned to some ancient customs, in others he was breaking new ground.

For instance, Jedi are allowed to marry freely, and their children seem to be powerful force sensitives at least half the time, if not more. It's always been something of an unknown how bloodlines affect Force aptitude, whether it actually has a powerful effect or not.

To quote Wookiepedia:

"The teachings of the New Order differed from those of the Old in several ways, and were closer to those practiced by the Jedi before the Great Sith War. Jedi were allowed to marry and have families, and each Jedi Master could train multiple apprentices. Jedi were allowed to use conventional weapons and armor besides their lightsabers, and the wearing of the Jedi robes, while popular, was no longer mandatory. For a long time, the Order was also much less centrally controlled, with each Jedi being given much greater personal freedom and responsibility."

Luke reshaped the Jedi dramatically, however. In some ways he returned to some ancient customs, in others he was breaking new ground.

 

For instance, Jedi are allowed to marry freely, and their children seem to be powerful force sensitives at least half the time, if not more. It's always been something of an unknown how bloodlines affect Force aptitude, whether it actually has a powerful effect or not.

 

To quote Wookiepedia:

"The teachings of the New Order differed from those of the Old in several ways, and were closer to those practiced by the Jedi before the Great Sith War. Jedi were allowed to marry and have families, and each Jedi Master could train multiple apprentices. Jedi were allowed to use conventional weapons and armor besides their lightsabers, and the wearing of the Jedi robes, while popular, was no longer mandatory. For a long time, the Order was also much less centrally controlled, with each Jedi being given much greater personal freedom and responsibility.

Yes, Luke in his own words had realised that the very restrictions themselves and how staunchly they were enforced, were often times a reason for a Jedi to fall, doesn't mean the NJO didn't get owned by loosening and even removing many of those restrictions.

Whilst Luke made improvements, he also made some monumentally stupid decisions regarding the rules of his Order, emotions ran rampant in the Jedi of his time.

Whilst some Jedi had the perk of confronting their emotions and not being overwhelmed by them due to ignoring said emotions and not acknowledging them, it also meant that his Jedi were poorly guided in how to subvert.

I still maintain that the Orthodox Jedi Order had the best outlook.

Yes, Luke in his own words had realised that the very restrictions themselves and how staunchly they were enforced, were often times a reason for a Jedi to fall, doesn't mean the NJO didn't get owned by loosening and even removing many of those restrictions.

 

Whilst Luke made improvements, he also made some monumentally stupid decisions regarding the rules of his Order, emotions ran rampant in the Jedi of his time.

 

Whilst some Jedi had the perk of confronting their emotions and not being overwhelmed by them due to ignoring said emotions and not acknowledging them, it also meant that his Jedi were poorly guided in how to subvert.

 

I still maintain that the Orthodox Jedi Order had the best outlook.

How to subvert what? I'm not sure I see what you're getting at there.

As for emotions running rampant in the Jedi Order, I think that the NJO took a more mature stance than the orthodox Jedi did. After all, we rarely see Jedi falling to the Dark Side during battles, but rather they are seduced by certain Sith who play to their natural tendencies (Jacen Solo and Lumiya) or they give in to impatience during their training (also under the influence of Sith spirits in many cases).

However, all of this happened regardless in the orthodox Jedi Order. If anything, the establishment of families helped to stabilize many Jedi and strengthened their roots to the Order. The NJO seems to be more resilient on the whole, when compared to the Jedi Order during the later days of the Old Republic.

How to subvert what?

Emotions.

There weren't nearly as many problems created by lack of subversion in the Jedi Order than there was in the NJO, hell even the students in Luke's Praxeum had problems.

Not to mention that the NJO failed so badly that the Jedi of Cade Skywalker's day were at an almost all time low for the Order.

Emotions.

 

There weren't nearly as many problems created by lack of subversion in the Jedi Order than there was in the NJO, hell even the students in Luke's Praxeum had problems.

 

Not to mention that the NJO failed so badly that the Jedi of Cade Skywalker's day were at an almost all time low for the Order.

No lower than they were when the Empire wiped them out. And quite honestly, the Legacy Era is sketchy at best. You essentially had a couple of Empire fanboys go nuts writing comics and create a time period where it's one empire vs. another.

You could say it was an all time low for the entire galaxy, since Krayt's Sith pretty much rule the galaxy, and instead of the Rebel Alliance, you have... the Alliance-in-Exile???

Seriously, the writing behind those comics is quite loose. Cade Skywalker is a character created just because the executives at Lucasfilm probably refused to approve the series unless there was a blatant tie-in to the film era.

I personally think any of these Old Republic Jedi have a pretty good chance of winning a duel vs. PT Jedi (with the exception of perhaps Mace Windu), simply because they were not only adept in the Force as students of Ossus masters, but they had proven in actual war they were experts with a lightsaber.

Ulic Qel-Droma

Nomi Sunrider

Sylvar

I also have to disagree that war makes Jedi weaker because it tests their resolve as well as their skill. Assuming they survive and are not turned to the Dark Side, I only see this experience strengthening a Jedi.

I personally think any of these Old Republic Jedi have a pretty good chance of winning a duel vs. PT Jedi (with the exception of perhaps Mace Windu), simply because they were not only adept in the Force as students of Ossus masters, but they had proven in actual war they were experts with a lightsaber.

 

Ulic Qel-Droma

Nomi Sunrider

Sylvar

 

I also have to disagree that war makes Jedi weaker because it tests their resolve as well as their skill. Assuming they survive and are not turned to the Dark Side, I only see this experience strengthening a Jedi.

That's basically the point of this thread, to point out that the Prequel Jedi lacked practical expertise with combat. One of the big arguments for the Prequel Jedi is the rambling list of how many forms they've all mastered and so forth. However, there's a huge lopsidedness to this because the films have been explored in almost painful depth and elaborated on with two TV series and multiple novels, comics, and games. The Old Republic Era is much less developed in terms of specific characters and their abilities, rather little is known except about a select few characters.

Not to mention the fact that Star Wars is a very stagnant universe, with only small, incremental improvements made to anything over time. So it seems to run counter to the themes which tie the universe together to have sudden, dramatic improvements made in the lightsaber styles by peacetime practitioners.