Thank you Eric and the Dev team! Great feedback, I think you responded to every comment too which I really wasn't expecting! I hope to see some of the changes you spoke of in the future.

To comment on the resource management question (DPS view only):

I, like many others, am not for a complete revamp of our heat system, I like it the way it works now...I'd be perfectly happy with bringing our free rail shot back, Pyro has no need for improvements since yesterday's 2.4 update

As far as interrupts/pushback, not really my area of expertise since it is very PVP driven, but I can say that the pushback even in PVE is a pain in the rear at times and would love any improvements you can make to it.

I find the answers/feedback you gave to the questions was satisfactory to the point I really don't have anything else to add at the moment!

Where did they say snipers are fine? If you've missed the news from the other forums.. snipers are going to get nerfed.

 

1) The 2-pc set bonus that causes their orbital to tick one additional time is going to 4-pc PVP

2) Orbital/Flyby is going to get a single . target . DPS damage reduction.

 

Source is on my sig.

I meant to say they argued they are fine and then turn around saying they are not fine. Make up your mind; that was the point and the reason why nothing they say or do can really be taken seriously. The all powerful metrics have spoken; you are fine they are fine was their answer to sorcs. Everyone knew and explained how that was not the case to no avail. Now suddenly something has changed. Perhaps the metrics are not all they are cracked up to be; we have seen this same pattern time and again since launch. Even prior to launch metrics are all seeing was the mantra. Yet they never learn; the people who play this game figure stuff out way before the metrics gods catch up.

THIS! THIS THIS THIS!!!! This is the bane of so many issues imo. The punishment we suffer from pushback and interrupts are the cause of almost every one of this classes problems (minus resource management).

 

Far too many of our harder hitting abilities are dependent on getting that channeled skill off...and they're far too easy to shut down by any competent player (speaking for PvP specifically). I understand the fear of the "ranged" DPS, but without the ability to cast any of our skills, we're nothing.

 

My suggestions:

- Interrupt/pushback immunity for 15 seconds after an interrupt/pushback, or, any Interrupt/pushback instantly triggers a Tech Override charge - I'd suggest a Tech Override charge for EVERY interrupted cast - it's just far too easy to shut down the cast dependent classes in PvP and this is the single biggest issue I feel the class has.

You do understand that interrupting some of those skills is the only way some classes stay alive against you?

You do understand that interrupting some of those skills is the only way some classes stay alive against you?

lol not really, there are classes that do more damage and have much better defenses that do not suffer from interrupts. So if you think a merc is a problem I'd like to introduce you to my friend the SMASHER!

This is a message from Rambeezy @ The Shadowlands. (He's currently un-subbed and cannot post on the forums)

So basically our rotation is fixed how ya'll want it and that’s not going to change but ya'll would be willing to increase our optimal regeneration percentage. Currently we have no reason to go above 40% heat unless someone screws up or we hit an aoe phase. I’m curious as to how close to the sorcerers system ya'll would be willing to go without giving us the ability to spam rapid scan like dark infusion. Are ya'll just looking at the regeneration aspect of sorcerers or the regeneration and consume. Mercenaries consume would have to be much more painful than a consume is for a sorcerer, obviously. Maybe 20-25 heat for 25-30% hp with a 30-45 second cd? This would warrant the removal of vent heat. I would need more information on how this change is being developed but I do like the idea of letting us “yoyo” more than 40% of our heat. Going to guess ya'll were looking at raising it to 60-70%? Which IMO would be perfect. Not sure how 100% would look.

Hopefully we don’t have to wait till the next round of questions to get feedback on this proposed “overhaul,” and hopefully I don’t have to re sub to test these changes. I’d rather not play this game while the semester is going on……It would be nice to get a group of the best mercenaries from each spec and a few combat team guys to work in private on these changes or at least discuss the specifics of this “overhaul” before the community makes a blind decision. If we can get together, both developers and live gamers, I could see some great things for Mercenaries. Skype, phone, in person, TS3, vent etc. doesn't matter, just needs to happen in private IMO. Overall great feedback, I see why these questions took a while. Sorry I’m not subbed atm but ya'll definitely made the idea of re-subbing sound like the right thing to do. Anyways back to my school work, but like I said, we need more specifics on this “overhaul.”

P.S. Anything is better than nothing.

Regarding changes to the interrupt/casting mechanics, I posted this in the PvP forum but thought Id share it here as well:

If Bioware is serious about improving the casting/channeling/interrupt/pushback situation, here is what I would do:

 

- Abilities with cast times can be activated while moving

- Initiating an ability with a cast time while moving applies a 25% slow on your character

- Channeled abilities can be activated while moving

- Activating a channeled ability while moving applies a 70% slow on your character

- You cannot be interrupted for 4s after having been interrupted

- You cannot suffer from pushback more than once every 3s

- Change Alacrity in the following ways:

• Adjust DR so its not a useless stat (We should be able to reduce 1.5s casts to <= 1s with excessive Alacrity stacking)
  
• Alacrity reduces the slow effect while casting/channeling on the move
  
• Alacrity reduces the effect of pushback
  

THIS! THIS THIS THIS!!!! This is the bane of so many issues imo. The punishment we suffer from pushback and interrupts are the cause of almost every one of this classes problems (minus resource management).

 

Far too many of our harder hitting abilities are dependent on getting that channeled skill off...and they're far too easy to shut down by any competent player (speaking for PvP specifically). I understand the fear of the "ranged" DPS, but without the ability to cast any of our skills, we're nothing.

 

My suggestions:

- Interrupt/pushback immunity for 15 seconds after an interrupt/pushback, or, any Interrupt/pushback instantly triggers a Tech Override charge - I'd suggest a Tech Override charge for EVERY interrupted cast - it's just far too easy to shut down the cast dependent classes in PvP and this is the single biggest issue I feel the class has.

You do understand that interrupting some of those skills is the only way some classes stay alive against you?

You do understand that interrupting some of those skills is the only way some classes stay alive against you?

So what about the higher damage classes with better defenses that cannot be interrupted how do you deal with them?

Sorry, but I have to chuckle a bit about this thread now. Many player responses to the heat/resource management issue. All different. No consensus. There will be no changes.

Mara and Snipers have a bit too much utility. No time table on when that might be fixed. If it ever happens, they'll still do 50% and 25% respectively more damage output than Merc Arsenal in pvp. Merc Pyro is even further behind.

Merc healing.... well at least Sorc healers are even crappier than you in arena pvp. Too bad you (Merc healers) are the worst in the game for pve.

Thing is, when the devs say they think "Mercs are in a pretty good place", it is actually true. In a relevant sense. You guys remember how crappy things were 12 months ago? Now we live in a slum. Before we were homeless!

THIS! THIS THIS THIS!!!! This is the bane of so many issues imo. The punishment we suffer from pushback and interrupts are the cause of almost every one of this classes problems (minus resource management).

 

Far too many of our harder hitting abilities are dependent on getting that channeled skill off...and they're far too easy to shut down by any competent player (speaking for PvP specifically). I understand the fear of the "ranged" DPS, but without the ability to cast any of our skills, we're nothing.

 

My suggestions:

- Interrupt/pushback immunity for 15 seconds after an interrupt/pushback, or, any Interrupt/pushback instantly triggers a Tech Override charge - I'd suggest a Tech Override charge for EVERY interrupted cast - it's just far too easy to shut down the cast dependent classes in PvP and this is the single biggest issue I feel the class has.

Agree, FINALY Bioware will notice why few ranged dps AC's have issues and why some not. Ability pushbacks are problem that needs to be looked. Its really bad far sages due not having skill for auto attack from ranged like GS or commandos/mercs have.

crow always tastes so foul when you have to eat it. nevertheless i said i would, and i do apologize for doubting it. as near as i can tell you are better than any merc healer in the game. i wasn't exaggerating when i said i have looked at over a hundred parses. for some reason not any commando ones but am fixing that now. maybe pubs are better players.

 

ironically, i think this makes my overall point even stronger. you were able to pull the kind of numbers a sorc does and maybe the merc you mention can do it (do you know if he uploads parses?), but what does a sorc with an equal talent put out? nobody blinks at a sorc doing 4k, so how common is it.

 

i still disagree with you, but you have show proof of being a better player than i, so i will shut up now.

I 95% agree with KBN

Look at it this way:

-Sorcs are meant to be raid healers, so their high numbers are justified

-Op healers are a jack of all trades type of healer, they can be good raid or tank healers but wont be better at either then a sorc or merc (unless in fights where you need to move a lot or stacking up is discouraged, then they beat sorcs in raid heal), also they don't have any buffs the only thing they bring to the table is their raw healing. That said their numbers are so-so justified as well (they could use an energy management nerf though which would eliminate any 5k+ parses)

-Merc healers are tank healers with big single target heals and a lot of buffs, like kolto residue, kolto shield and reactive armor (none of those buffs contribute to hps or ehps) so they shouldnt even put out those numbers a raid healer can.

What i disagree with KBN is that Merc heal COULD use some PVE buffs, since they are slightly behind still (bad RNG with crits and you are not much of a tank healer then). A buff to our heat management, a fixed crit curve and a change to Peacekeeper talent would be enough to make us as good as Sorc/Op

Wow... I'm starting to feel like I'm the only Merc who doesn't really have an issue w/ the heat system.

Guess I rapid shot too much...

What i disagree with KBN is that Merc heal COULD use some PVE buffs, since they are slightly behind still (bad RNG with crits and you are not much of a tank healer then). A buff to our heat management, a fixed crit curve and a change to Peacekeeper talent would be enough to make us as good as Sorc/Op

I certainly wouldn't complain about any of the things you're listing here. I'm curious though as to exactly how you feel the heat management should be buffed. I've given it some thought, and it's just really hard to see where it would fit without making us very OP. Right now, our single-target output is superior to a Scoundrel of equal gear (I did the math on this a while back on an old thread) at maximum sustainable rotations for each. Our single-target healing rotation is actually ammo-neutral so long as you don't refresh Trauma Probe/Kolto Shell more than once every 30 seconds and you push Supercharge Cells / Supercharge Gas shortly after it comes up (there is a reasonable grace window). If we already have an ammo neutral rotation that has higher output than a similarly neutral rotation for our nearest-neighbor class, how do you fairly buff that situation? I'm not strictly arguing against it, I'm just curious as to what you have in mind.

Peacekeeper is a terrible talent. I have no idea what Bioware was thinking there. A nicer rate of return on crit would also be SUPER nice, given how crit-dependent merc healers are.

If we could cast while moving, and changed interrupt/pushback, problem would be solved.

I also like the idea of overhaul to our system. Maybe change the way vent heat works, and the talent in bodyguard tree could be changed instead of giving alacrity, increases heat dissipation by 2 for 10-15 seconds.

On the energy management system, how about this: Thermal Clips. I know its a rip from Mass Effect in terms of name but hear me out. The idea would be that a bounty hunter/trooper can reload every x seconds which fills up his ammo/heal bar to full. The ammo/heat bar DOES NOT regenerate on its own. This gives the trooper/hunter a certain number of abilities he can fire before he has to reload again. This would allow us to burst on demand (but with tactical consideration of the fact that we would be vulnerable for the rest of our clip time afterwards) or pull a sustained burn through our clip which would optimally leave us at about 10-20% spare resources when a new clip is ready.

The reason this seems like a better system to me is that it allows both burst and sustained but requires the player to think about what they are doing and when they are using their big hits. It would also be easier to balance as the devs could simply add/remove seconds from the clip cooldown as needed.

To make things more interesting, defenses could be rooted to the clip as well. For example, we could have reactive shield/TSO be turned into toggle abilities only one of which can be turned on at a time. Having the reactive shield turned on would provide an armor boost but damage debuff when you reload, having the TSO turned on would provide a damage boost but also an incoming damage debuff. The skills could be toggled at any time but only activate upon reloading and the effect persists until the next time you reload (potentially lowing you to sit with the shield for a while but at the cost of an empty clip). Having either of them activated means that you start with the clip only 75% full. So having neither of them would allow you to burst/push sustained a bit more but at the cost of the utilities they provide.

Hey everyone!

 

We do not disagree with your final comment about the “unforgiving heat management system” and are curious to know whether the Mercenary/Commando community would like to see a resource overhaul at some point in the distant future? If we were to make Heat/Energy Cells for Mercenaries/Commandos work more like a Sorcerer’s/Sage’s Force pool, would it be appreciated or despised by those of you who play Mercenaries/Commandos? We are not planning any change to the Heat/Energy Cell system at this time, but would like to know more about the community’s opinion of the current Heat/Energy Cell resource system. We will talk more about this issue in the answer to your third question.

I think in general the community would like to see the ammo/heat system stay as is. More on this at the end, but it seems like agent/smuggler prove the concept works (since it's essentially the same), so it seems that tweaking our abilities would be more than sufficient to address our ammo issues without requiring the work of a complete overhaul.

The reason why Mercenaries/Commandos were originally given longer, weaker cooldowns is because they are passively superior to many of the other classes in the game. By nature of wearing the heaviest armor in the game, they take less damage than many other classes without needing to touch a button. They also have the ability to heal themselves and their allies, along with a 30 meter range for most of their abilities.

 

It is fairly clear now that Mercenaries/Commandos are not the dominating force on the field of battle that we originally feared they might be. With that said, some classes have utilities that are just too strong and/or cooldown durations that are quite possibly too short – the Marauder/Sentinel is a good example of a class like this. So while some classes may pine to be given cooldowns that will make them as strong as Sentinels/Marauders, we would rather reduce the effectiveness of Marauder/Sentinel cooldowns to make them more like the other classes when it comes to survivability.

 

However, this does not mean that we should ignore Mercenary/Commando (or any classes, for that matter) cooldowns. We might consider lengthening the duration of the Health Monitor/Fired Up effect provided by Kolto Overload/Adrenaline Rush and maybe even not put the ability on cooldown unless the effect actually triggers Kolto Overload/Adrenaline Rush before it expires. It might be safe to shorten the cooldown on Power Surge/Tech Override or maybe even allow it to affect two abilities baseline. Our concern with Thermal Sensor Override/Reserve Powercell is that the ability only exists to mitigate the frustration caused by an unforgiving resource system, and we would prefer to fix the resource system rather than give players additional buttons or shorter cooldowns to fight against their obstinate resources. Electro Net is a powerful, strategic ability that we feel has an appropriate strength with an appropriate cooldown length, so we probably will not be making any changes to it.

 

Unrelated to utility cooldowns, another thing that we have been internally considering for a while now is adjusting our pushback & interrupt systems because we believe the classes that have abilities with activation and channel times are simply being too greatly affected by those systems. These adjustments would primarily benefit all Mercenaries/Commandos and Sorcerers/Sages (Snipers/Gunslingers do not gain much because they are already immune to pushback & interrupts while in cover). Power Shot/Charged Bolts, Unload/Full Auto, and Tracer Missile/Grav Round are some key abilities that would benefit from these adjustments. Please let us know your opinion of the pushback & interrupt systems as they currently stand, and we will take the community’s feedback into consideration.

I used to not think Pushback was really that much of a deal, at least in operations, until I started using my Gunslinger there. In fights with lots of low grade damage going out, I definitely notice, so at the least giving talents which completely reduce pushback, and provide some sort of interrupt protection, would be greatly appreciated.

On the issue of cooldowns, I'm not sure why the original thought was that we'd be so powerful, but that thought clearly existed from the beginning. It's supposedly why we didn't have an interrupt for the longest time, perhaps even why we didn't have a battle rez in the beginning. I'm glad you guys are finally coming around to the reality. I'd also look at Plasma Grenade. Why does a mediocre 3 target AoE (though with decent single target damage) cost a full THIRD of our resources? It's kinda ridiculous, and I'd be interested to see what you guys do to bring our cooldowns more in line with their usefulness, or vice-versa. A question though. If you fix the resource management to not require RP/TSO, then can we expect to see this ability replaced with something that gives us a bit more punch?

We are sorry that the community did not positively receive the change to the 4-piece Eliminator set bonus, and the change was in fact directed at making the set useful for Pyrotechs/Assault Specialists. But in reality, this set bonus only served to mask the real issue: a systematic problem with the Heat/Energy Cell system.

 

As a damage dealer, it is not fun being forced to fight two battles at the same time – one against your enemy target and another against your resource bar. As you pointed out, we have made changes to certain abilities (like Incendiary Missile/Incendiary Round) and even created entire abilities (Vent Heat/Recharge Cells and Thermal Sensor Override/Reserve Powercell) to mitigate the frustration caused by an unforgiving resource system. But maybe the time has finally come to fix the real problem – the resource system itself?

 

Thematically, we would still use Heat/Energy Cells, so the change would only be in functionality. There is nothing that thematically requires Heat/Energy Cells to work how they currently do. For example, we could let you safely use more than 40% of your resource bar more than once every 2 minutes; however, we cannot allow Mercenaries/Commandos to heal indefinitely – which is actually the reason why the system works like it currently does. This is why a resource system that works in a similar manner to the Sorcerer’s/Sage’s Force resource could work for Mercenaries/Commandos, while something like the Juggernaut’s/Guardian’s Rage/Focus resource would not be feasible. We should state that overhauling a resource system is a substantial amount of work on our end, and as such, it is not something that would happen anytime soon. We will be looking for your feedback here, because we would not want to make a drastic change to your resource system without support from you – the players.

.

I think a huge way to help with our ammo without completely overhauling the ammo system is to simply lower the cost. Originally the Trooper ammo system meant that in order to achieve something almost like parity, the base ammo cost for abilities had to be 8, with most abilities that were used costing 2 ammo or generating 16 heat.

Of course it turned out that this still wasn't much like parity, which was why the Trooper system was changed to be out of 100 ammo, but the costs were never reexamined. In fact, High Impact Bolt had it's base cost increased by 2 ammo before taking the new set bonus into consideration.

The agent/smuggler system is essentially the same as ours now and is proof positive that it works just fine, so the question to ask is why it works for them and not for us.

I'll compare Gunnery/Arsenal to Marksman/Sharpshooter because those are the commando and gunslinger specs with which I am most familiar. I'm sure similar comparisons can be made by more knowledgeable people for other specs.

The first thing one notes about SS Gunslinger when it comes to energy management is that by far their most frequently used ability, Trick Shot, costs 5 energy. This is an ability they use about once every three GCDs. Every GCD they use it they are essentially gaining 4 energy (9 energy regenned during the GCD, 5 used on Trick Shot). Both Charged Bursts and Aimed Shot cost 15 energy (1 less than our standard 16 ammo/heat), and speed shot, which is used more or less on cooldown is 20 ammo. Additionally, for 1/3rd of the time they are generating around 13.5 energy. This is what allows that spec to use Flyby on cooldown (25 energy), since using Flyby while Burst Volley is active regens about 15 energy during the cast time.

The combination of Burst Volley, and 4 energy given back for free during all those Trick Shots, allows the spec to weave in Flyby, Vital Shot, and even Sabo Charge, before they have to start worrying about ammo.

Compared to Arsenal merc/Gunnery commando, we have one Ammo Neutral ability, which is Full Auto/Unload. EVERY other ability is energy negative, even abilities like High Impact Bolt and Electronet which only cost 10 ammo/heat. That's what forces us to use Hammer Shot so much, and is one reason why bad RNG procs on Curtain of Fire/Barrage is so devastating. Not only are we losing damage on one of our most potent abilities, but we're losing out on our one single energy neutral ability.

Removing the entire tier regen system might indeed solve all our problems, but I have to think that that would also come with the need to properly rebalance costs, and ultimately it would only make the ammo system a bit more forgiving. It might be enough though, who knows?

I would much rather just rebalance costs of our current abilities. It would be less work on your part, and do us a world of good. I would suggest lowering the base cost of Grav Round by 3 (so with the latent it would cost 13 ammo/heat), and would change the talent (special munitions for Commando) to lower High Impact Bolt by 5 per point invested while in AP cell (resulting in a 1 ammo HiB, it would negate the need to change the set bonus). I would also change cell charger to reflect the recent changes made to the Vanguard version so that 2 ammo/heat is given back every GCD rather than 8 in one large chunk every 6 seconds.

Now the problem of course is that's an approach to one spec, and similar re-examination would need to be done for all three specs, but I have to believe an overhaul of the ammo system is going to require that as well. Meanwhile, changing a few talents in each tree should be less work on your end.

I certainly wouldn't complain about any of the things you're listing here. I'm curious though as to exactly how you feel the heat management should be buffed. I've given it some thought, and it's just really hard to see where it would fit without making us very OP. Right now, our single-target output is superior to a Scoundrel of equal gear (I did the math on this a while back on an old thread) at maximum sustainable rotations for each. Our single-target healing rotation is actually ammo-neutral so long as you don't refresh Trauma Probe/Kolto Shell more than once every 30 seconds and you push Supercharge Cells / Supercharge Gas shortly after it comes up (there is a reasonable grace window). If we already have an ammo neutral rotation that has higher output than a similarly neutral rotation for our nearest-neighbor class, how do you fairly buff that situation? I'm not strictly arguing against it, I'm just curious as to what you have in mind.

 

Peacekeeper is a terrible talent. I have no idea what Bioware was thinking there. A nicer rate of return on crit would also be SUPER nice, given how crit-dependent merc healers are.

Well based only on my experince with overheating, I only overheal when my big heals refuse to crit and have to catch up (nothing to do about that) or there is a lot of raid healing required becuase of f*cked up mechanics.

Taken from that my ideas (not gonna say specific numbers, i'm not theorycrafter):

-a general small heat reduction to rapid scan and/or kolto missle

-and/or supercharged effect added to rapid scan: additonal small heat reduction (even mabye interrupt immunity for pvp?)

-and/or heat dissipation from kolto shell crit (maybe change Peacekeeper into this)

I don't want to make heat management scoundrel like easy, so all of this could be 1-3 heat.

Right now, our single-target output is superior to a Scoundrel of equal gear (I did the math on this a while back on an old thread)

Also can you link that thread, i'm curious about it. I enjoy reading your threads

Also can you link that thread, i'm curious about it. I enjoy reading your threads

Unfortunately, I didn't author the thread. It was a reply several (iirc, 10-12) pages in. I think I was discussing something with Kitru, perhaps on the commando or scoundrel subforum. I don't really have a good way of finding it now. :-( What I might do though when I'm done revising my tank stat post for the new HMs is write a "Healer Comparison Post" similar to what I did for DPS, but more theoretical. I think I now have a decent way of modeling healer output over time.

Unfortunately, I didn't author the thread. It was a reply several (iirc, 10-12) pages in. I think I was discussing something with Kitru, perhaps on the commando or scoundrel subforum. I don't really have a good way of finding it now. :-( What I might do though when I'm done revising my tank stat post for the new HMs is write a "Healer Comparison Post" similar to what I did for DPS, but more theoretical. I think I now have a decent way of modeling healer output over time.

Oh yeah, can't wait for both of them

Lol, i cant believe people are complaining about Merc DPS, if you cant get almost 3k dps with the simplest roatation in the game...there's a problem..

But BW, good job with these answers. Even if you regurgitated what you said to the sorcs just more eloquently worded. I.E. "you can heal and have utility, get over it"

Lol, i cant believe people are complaining about Merc DPS, if you cant get almost 3k dps with the simplest roatation in the game...there's a problem..

Some people prefer more of a challenge with live opponents and go for PvP. There are no PvE bosses that interrupt you every time you cast Tracer Missile, so the main weakness of Mercs is PvP DPS (and PvE/PvP Heals depending on your opinion).

But I do agree that Arsenal Merc PvE DPS is somewhat simple and mostly balanced, no need for QQ in that area. Unless we are talking about Pyro which is user error for selecting that build.

But I do agree that Arsenal Merc PvE DPS is somewhat simple and mostly balanced, no need for QQ in that area.

Pushback is still a big problem, even in PvE. It wasn't pre-2.0, but something didn't scale appropriately in the system. There are several bosses where mercs (and sorcs) are severely penalized relative to snipers, often to the point of not being able to fill certain roles (e.g. anomaly killing in TfB).

Unless we are talking about Pyro which is user error for selecting that build.

Our highest parsing commando does a 3140 in Assault/Pyro *before* you account for armor debuff and execute. Once you add those in, the DPS goes up to 3457, which is one of the highest boss-adjusted parses of any spec in the game (including snipers and marauders). This same commando generally sits in the 3k range in gunnery/arsenal. He does prefer gunnery, and he situationally swaps depending on the boss mechanics and the raid composition (e.g. external armor debuff), but he pulls much better numbers in Assault/Pyro.

Very, very underrated spec.