Apologies. I do not mean to be the spreader of bad info.

Wow I'm am not about to claim to be a know it all, but 95%of the info in this thread is wrong. I myself have all 3 tanks. I've researched a ton into this. Guard in PVE does NOT transfer DMG. I repeat guard does NOT transfer DMG in pve. What gaurd does do is give the person a 15% dmg reduction as well as giving them a threat reduction. Also a big one that no one understands is even tho you may be out of range for guard in Pve IT STILL WORKS. That being said Guard should be reserved for the top dps. Mara's, PT's, Snipers, and Merc's are the classes you want to be guarding normally. Powertech's have no threat drop so if u have a well geared one i wouldn't think twice Guard goes to the Powertech. People may giggle at a dps merc being Guarded but a well geared one in PVE can put out huge threat.

 

Guard should never be applied to the healer unless there is a situation where the boss does a random HUGE attack to a member of the raid. I.E. the snipes by kephess in HM EC where the Pulsar droids are active. It also helps to have guard on the healer on this fight b/c when the the 3 groups of adds spawn those adds(because no one can attack them while under the protective shield) Tend to make a B line for a healer. Guarding the healer here takes away a small amount of that dmg if they do go for the healer. But by putting guard on them in this fight I've noticed more times than not if both healers are guarded then the adds will go right for a Tank. On the first group of adds that come out after the burn phase on the Walker Droid 9 out of 10 times the adds come right at me and i dont need to waste an Aoe taunt.(save it for when the second group comes out which again 9 out of 10 times comes at me as the tank. The third group the off tank uses his aoe and there is little to no raid dmg this way. Again this is the only fight in the entire game i have ever used Guard on a Healer. You are much better off in every other fight guarding top dps that way the boss doesn't turn and cleave the raid.

@wetslampigduex, while I agree with your most of your points, you're incorrect about two things:

 

a. The PvE damage reduction is 5%, not 15%

b. Guard breaks outside of 15m

 

Here are my tests on the subject, as a healer with another tank player, and a friend on his imp toon

 

1. Tank guards me, I get the "guard" buff.

2. I move 16m away. The buff changes to "out of range"

3. I engage in world PvP with another player at 16m away, no damage is transferred

 

Now, as far as the 5% PvE damage reduction and the 25% thread reduction, the only way to know for SURE would be to dig through the logs. But since the PvP damage transfer breaks at 16m, along with a buff that states that guard is out of range, we were satisfied that the tooltip description of 15m is correct for both PvP and PvE.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Khevar

Yeah was doing this off the top of my head thanks for pointing out i was wrong about the 15%... but as far as the pve 15m range i find it hard to believe there is a range in pve. we guard our ranged dps in toth and zorn because they tend to pull threat off our juggy tank around the time tank swaps happen and when we have our guards on them they never pull hate. Same with the tanks fight in EC HM we guard both dps on storm caller because if the tank losses hate after moving DD to the dps its instagibble. While having both on guard they are both showing up as the two lowest on the threat meters in swmonitor. so take it for what it is but it works for my guild

@wetslampigduex, while I agree with your most of your points, you're incorrect about two things:

 

a. The PvE damage reduction is 5%, not 15%

b. Guard breaks outside of 15m

 

Here are my tests on the subject, as a healer with another tank player, and a friend on his imp toon

 

1. Tank guards me, I get the "guard" buff.

2. I move 16m away. The buff changes to "out of range"

3. I engage in world PvP with another player at 16m away, no damage is transferred

 

Now, as far as the 5% PvE damage reduction and the 25% thread reduction, the only way to know for SURE would be to dig through the logs. But since the PvP damage transfer breaks at 16m, along with a buff that states that guard is out of range, we were satisfied that the tooltip description of 15m is correct for both PvP and PvE.

 

The threat and damage reduction in PvE has, essentially, unlimited range.

The threat and damage reduction in PvE has, essentially, unlimited range.

Interesting.

 

It seems the only way to be certain would be to check the combat log details (which I haven't). Do you know if anyone has dug into game mechanics at this level and check it out?

 

I could be wrong about the 15m, I would be very surprised if it worked outside of 30m.

While I haven't checked the logs, I do know that in regards to Firebrand and Stormcaller, with me on the side of Firebrand closest to the exit door, and the melee on the opposite side of Stormcaller (Basically the two turret heads between us) just over 30 meters away and they still get the benefit of the threat reduction of my guard. That was noticeable in practice.

 

Reading the tool-tip is says "While active, the guarded player takes 5% less damage and generates 25% less threat."

 

The 15 meters clause is added in the next sentence, and only in regards to PvP, saying;

 

"In addition, so long as you are within 15 meters of the guarded player, 50% of all incoming damage from enemy players is redirected to you."

 

This says nothing about Threat or the 5% damage reduction in PvE so it's safe to assume that so long as the player has the buff the Damage and Threat reduction stands.

 

Edit: IIRC, when someone that's guarded moves out of the 15 meter range, the person guarded gets two buffs. The first being "Guarded" the second being "Out of Range" possibly meaning that the "out of range" only applies to the 15m PvP clause.

Edited October 23, 2012 by BlznSmri

I thank the OP who puts his guard on healers, it's a great idea. I always guard the healer and I always get guarded as the healer. Considering the healers job is to heal, if the DPS pulls agro for a few moments, depending on the situation, it's barely a problem, he'll be up to full in a few seconds and the tank will regain agro. As a healer, I always heal others first before myself, I usually only heal myself when I'm around 40%, otherwise I slowly heal up by doing my AOEs. The guard really does help me out, on BT HM, with all the large groups, I manage to get a lot of trash on me, but when I have the skilled tanks who know when and who to put there guard on, they usually keep it on me for the trash, so I don't have to panic. They do switch guard onto the DPS for boss fights and maybe a few golds here and there, that helps me out more than if it were on me, in that situation, because as a merc healer, I have a MUCH easier time with focused healing.

Personally, unless a fight like HM EC Kephess (haven't done it yet) suggests it, I always guard the top dps (Sentinels for my guild). Healers never pull off me, so the threat reduction doesn't really have any effect on a healer whatsoever. even in random FP pugs I always guard the best geared dps.

Also remember, if you guard the healer (who gets a 25% threat reduction) and there are mobs that NOBODY is attacking, the healer will still be at the top of the aggro table and will get attacked anyway.

Also remember, if you guard the healer (who gets a 25% threat reduction) and there are mobs that NOBODY is attacking, the healer will still be at the top of the aggro table and will get attacked anyway.

 

Another reason to NEVER guard the healer, as the healer will almost never pull off anything with any threat on it.

 

And the adds that spawn during Kephess start with a certain amount of threat and beeline towards the tanks.

 

The fight against Kephess himself is one where guarding the DPS is pretty much the most important thing to do, since a DPS pull off means every melee dps just ate a cleave, which means they're now dead.

 

In fact, that's why DPS should be guarded to begin with. Everyone saying "well if the healer dies it's a wipe" doesn't really seem to understand how this game works.

 

Healers generate half the threat of everyone else. A healer will never, ever, ever, ever, ever pull off a target that's actively being attacked (in a realistic situation, not talking level 50 healer with level 10 people or anything). The reduced threat from guard is USELESS. The 5% damage reduction SOMETIMES comes into play, but more often than not a DPS pull off ends up in more overall raid damage (since it generally means the DPS just ate a cleave) and often causes a wipe. The 5% damage reduction on a healer will almost never be the difference between life and death.

 

DPS generate a lot of threat. Tank's generate twice the threat, but usually put out less than half the DPS. A high burst class, like a carnage marauder, will frequently pull off a tank that doesn't pay attention and use taunts intelligently. Guard helps this.

 

Nearly every boss in this game cleaves. A cleave is extra damage to the DPS or possibly a wipe. The DPS are just as important to the fight as the healer or the tank. You can not do it without them.

 

I've played all 3 roles somewhat extensively. If I get guarded as a healer I cancel it and tell them to put it on someone else. It's doing nothing for me, the 5% damage reduction is utterly useless since most heals on myself are overheals anyway, and the threat generation reduction is ignorable for healers.

The only fight in pve that you should guard the healer is the last phase in terror from beyond.

I thank the OP who puts his guard on healers, it's a great idea. I always guard the healer and I always get guarded as the healer. Considering the healers job is to heal, if the DPS pulls agro for a few moments, depending on the situation, it's barely a problem, he'll be up to full in a few seconds and the tank will regain agro. As a healer, I always heal others first before myself, I usually only heal myself when I'm around 40%, otherwise I slowly heal up by doing my AOEs. The guard really does help me out, on BT HM, with all the large groups, I manage to get a lot of trash on me, but when I have the skilled tanks who know when and who to put there guard on, they usually keep it on me for the trash, so I don't have to panic. They do switch guard onto the DPS for boss fights and maybe a few golds here and there, that helps me out more than if it were on me, in that situation, because as a merc healer, I have a MUCH easier time with focused healing.

 

The guard doesn't help you out in the large trash pulls on BT HM. As a healer your threat is trivial. The only way you will gain aggro on these large groups is if no one is hitting the mobs. In that case you will gain aggro no matter who has guard on them. Reducing your trivial threat further is a waste of the ability. The 5% DR isn't going to be very meaningful on trash pulls either. A skilled tank will not guard the healer.

DPS always have 100% control over the amount of threat they generate. Always. They can always stop pushing buttons for a second. Two seconds, even, in the case of heroic and exceptionally disciplined individual DPSers. They have much more control over their own threat than healers do. Edited October 26, 2012 by Otembe

DPS always have 100% control over the amount of threat they generate. Always. They can always stop pushing buttons for a second. Two seconds, even, in the case of heroic and exceptionally disciplined individual DPSers. They have much more control over their own threat than healers do.

Why not guard that dps that's pulling aggo instead?

 

The healer isn't going to RIP aggro off the tank, the healer is going grab aggro on any mobs that haven't been attacked or taunted.

 

a) Don't use taunts in the beginning of the fight, use them when they're needed.

b) DPS burn down the weak mobs first, then there's nothing left to aggro on the healer as the elites are busy with the tank.

c) Profit.

DPS always have 100% control over the amount of threat they generate. Always. They can always stop pushing buttons for a second. Two seconds, even, in the case of heroic and exceptionally disciplined individual DPSers. They have much more control over their own threat than healers do.

 

Healers generate threat at HALF the rate of DPSers!

 

Their threat generation is trivial. They will only ever have aggro on mobs no one is hitting. I'd rather use the buff to ensure my best dpser doesn't have to stop hitting buttons for a second or two than waste it by putting it on the person in the group that generates the least threat.

 

Your point is totally, completely, and unequivocally absurd. Control of threat isn't an issue. We are talking about putting a threat decrease on a role that generates threat at a significant rate vs putting it on a role that generates threat at an insignificant rate. If you think healing aggro is ever an issue in this game I have to question whether you have even a basic understanding of how threat generation works.

as a Healer, I rather you place it on the dps, preferred the melee dps and I'll not pull aggro of the tank unless it is a mob no one has ago on and when that is the case guard did nothing to help,

in PvP, you always guard the healer, for obvious reasons.

 

Not true. In PvP you guard the targets that will be taking focus fire and you switch guard depending on who is being targetted.

 

If I'm a Guardian and the Sentinel next to me is taking damage while the Sage behind me is safely out of attack range I will switch guard to that Sentinel.

 

If the healer than tells me over voice that he's has someone on him then I'll leap back and throw a guard up.

Its a shame how they watch for the dps classes and not the others, if you gte enough enemies and cant do the cc on all you usualy have to play crazy as a tank, you do not inflict enough dmg to keep them on you.

 

So you turn and turn and taunt whenever its up, rest already on cd.....and kids cry they want to dps more and more. Seems devs where once one of those kids. Yesterday i was playing a warzone, somebody said: " 4k, 6k, 5k, 6k, those where my last deaths, wth".

If you're guarding the healer in PvE, you're doing it wrong. Period. The threat table has been well established, but in case someone has missed it:

 

100% - Tank

75% - DPS

50% - Healing

 

In addition, all healing trees have threat reducing talents to make their threat generation even less. The ONLY way a healer should pull aggro is on a MOB they have previously CC'd and no one else has attacked it yet.

 

As a tank, your job is to hold threat so that DPS can do their job, which is cause damage. Since damage causes threat, and they put out more damage than the tank, the logical choice is to guard the highest DPS for the threat reduction. Most DPS classes have a threat reduction ability that they should be using on cooldown, but many don't.