by removing class stances u ruined the game by letting dps have guard....

 

a dps has no business having a guard that is for tanks only.. fix the game you broke

Most tanks are not using guard correctly anyway so I fully support giving DPS:ers guard, in particular for PvP but even for PvE it's very helpful in multiple situations to enable DPS:ers to guard other players. I think your lack of understanding about how tanks, dps and guards work prevent you from realizing the improvement this change has made to swtor.

by removing class stances u ruined the game by letting dps have guard....

 

a dps has no business having a guard that is for tanks only.. fix the game you broke

They didn't remove class stances. They made the class stances passive and automatic and tied to the correct discipline. (Only tank VGs have Ion Cell, etc.)

 

And the DPS specs that now have guard have always had guard, or at least since 3.0 did away with skill trees.

They didn't remove class stances. They made the class stances passive and automatic and tied to the correct discipline. (Only tank VGs have Ion Cell, etc.)

 

And the DPS specs that now have guard have always had guard, or at least since 3.0 did away with skill trees.

 

True, I remember at the time switching from surging charge into Dark Charge to apply guard on a healer that was in a bad spot. Now they made it in a way that you don't need anymore to switch stance to do it.

It has pro and cons

Now you won't loose dps or miss a specific proc given by your stance

But you'll take more damage than before when guarding because you don't have anymore the passives of the tank stance.

It's a choice, a good one, except that maybe guard should be more effective when used by a tank.

Most tanks are not using guard correctly anyway so I fully support giving DPS:ers guard, in particular for PvP but even for PvE it's very helpful in multiple situations to enable DPS:ers to guard other players. I think your lack of understanding about how tanks, dps and guards work prevent you from realizing the improvement this change has made to swtor.

 

I do not appreciate your unwarranted insults.

 

 

in pvp there is no reason for a dps to have guard... they are a dps.. yes they can taunt and reduce damage but having the guard ability has no place in a dps tool kit.. it does however fit in a tank's tool kit. notice how a dps aoe taunt is its agro drop

 

I have 30+ toons all 65+ I know all the classes.. so I'm curious how you decide to make any remarks about my "understanding about how tanks, dps and guards work ."

 

and understand how players are abusing guard in pvp ......exploit early exploit often I think the saying is.

 

also there is no reason for a dps to have the guard ability in PVE.. only reason would be a crutch that encourages poor/bad gameplay practices

 

if tanks cant hold agro that is part dps not agro dropping and part a tank improperly weaving his taunts into his rotation/opener...

 

tip to you is to not make baseless insults about someone you don't even know .. just makes you look bad tbh

Edited September 20, 2017 by BillyMayesHere

While I am against dps having guard because it takes away from my purpose as a tank, I do feel like commenting on some other comments here. Primarily as a tank holding aggro is my job. Yes dps can and should assist by aggro dumping and so on, but fundamentally holding aggro is a tank issue. Just like dps checks are primarily a dps issue. A tank can help dps but provided he's not doing pathetic no one is going to blame a tank for an enrage. The same goes for dps and pulling threat. Provided they're being complete idiots (i.e. taunting the boss on purpose without pre-planning with the tank or pulling before the tank on purpose, etc) holding aggro is primarily a tank concern

 

*Lots of text without punctuation, paragraphs or any arguments over here*

 

My intention wasn't to insult you, it was simply a statement on what I perceived to be a lack of understanding for how guard enhances the performance of DPS players in primarily PvP, but just as much in PvE. A lot of people have classes at max level, even in full 248 and CXP 300, multiple of them are not playing their classes even close to their full potential or understand how to correctly use their cooldowns and abilities. Being a jack of all trades but master of none is not a credential I see as helping your case in this situation.

 

For DPS in PvE, primarily guard, but taunt just as well are both useful tools which can really help the group if used correctly. A group will have at least two guards by default, however, on multiple bossfights, it helps to direct damage towards specific DPS to make use of Into the Fray/Energy Shield and other passives/cooldowns. Additionally, if you have a DPS taunting an add or a boss, guard helps and decreased threat generation is irrelevant since the DPS is using taunt. That is for PvE, as illustrated there are several benefits for a group and that is without even considering the benefits for a 16man group where this becomes even more of a benefit.

 

For PvP, the guard aspect can be a problem and requires a bit more of finesse but perhaps it's easier illustrated how DPS are able to benefit from guard. Using it to protect the healer helps spread out burst damage which could have killed the healer if not shared. For a situation where it's two DPS fight two or more targets, it helps as well as it spreads out the damage which increases the Time2Kill which in turn improves the damage they are able to deal.

 

I apologize for what you perceived to be an insult, but it remains clear to me that you lack quite a bit in knowledge and understanding of how a DPS using guard can be helpful for multiple situations both in PvP and PvE. I, however, hope that this post has helped towards improving that.

Edited September 21, 2017 by RikuvonDrake

by removing class stances u ruined the game by letting dps have guard....

 

a dps has no business having a guard that is for tanks only.. fix the game you broke

 

Dps having a guard is pretty meaningless and more likely was intended for solo play with companion.

 

Plenty of things have been "broken", but damage roles having a guard shouldn't be the complaint to be voicing.

I feel dps having guard isn't broken per se. It isn't that powerful, in PvE you'll already have two people with guard anyways meaning you can always guard those who really need it. Not to mention you can't be guarded when guarding.

In PvP it's slightly more powerful, but quite often it's just a way to die really quickly. Though it can be useful to guard a healer.

 

That said, I think it's a bit odd for any dps class to have guard, it doesn't really fit thematically in my opinion.

I feel dps having guard isn't broken per se. It isn't that powerful, in PvE you'll already have two people with guard anyways meaning you can always guard those who really need it. Not to mention you can't be guarded when guarding.

In PvP it's slightly more powerful, but quite often it's just a way to die really quickly. Though it can be useful to guard a healer.

 

That said, I think it's a bit odd for any dps class to have guard, it doesn't really fit thematically in my opinion.

 

This pretty much. On the pve front sure you have an extra guard, that then can't be guarded himself. In PvP it really is a faster way to die. See that dps guardian guarding someone? Smoosh him.

 

I don't like dps guarding because in PvP it's my primary purpose as a tank. Seriously what else am I accomplishing if not protecting my team?

Yeah, remove more class identity. SwToR is still a little to different from WoW. We dont want that, dont we.......

Guard was never a part of DD spec identity, and it takes away from a tank's identity and role that they can do this with no sacrifice. I was fine with them guarding back when they had to give up DPS to do it, but now it's become a plague.

 

I play full tank, I will always play full tank with tank gear regardless of current balance and refuse to skank, so for me it very much infringes upon my identity in PvP when I can no longer guard switch because a bunch of DDs have given individual guards out to all the healers. Nothing tilts me more in this game than going to switch guard and some idiot DD already guarded someone and didn't bother to check that his team has a tank, and it's contributed to my almost abandoning PvP entirely.

 

The rest of the tank's job remains unchanged - taunt the appropriate targets on cooldown, stun and generally annoy healers so they can't do their jobs, Guardian Leap allies under attack on cooldown. However guard switch was always a peculiarity of SWTOR PvP tanking, and one which sets it apart from the likes of WoW, and it's sad to see it compromised like this. The best I can do now is request that DDs leave the guard button alone when I'm or another tank is in the area and hope they listen.

Snip

 

I totally agree with everything you said, Guard switch was one of the main things for tanks... There is not much point of guard in DPS specs anyway, most of them don't even use it correctly. And it doesn't make sense for a dps spec to have a damage transferring ability, protection of allies isn't their role.

I totally agree with everything you said, Guard switch was one of the main things for tanks... There is not much point of guard in DPS specs anyway, most of them don't even use it correctly. And it doesn't make sense for a dps spec to have a damage transferring ability, protection of allies isn't their role.

 

I personally agree as well. Guard and guard swapping are the realm of tanks and should be. I too find having to yell at someone to drop guard before they die rather annoying. That said I do skank in pvp, because tank gear is frankly useless. Call it make up from all the time I spent playing vigi out of protest to dps getting guards.

 

On that note though, if the opponent team has dps guarding, it's quite useful. Focus whoever he's guarding and have one person wreck the poor stupid dps that thinks he can guard.

Well, guard is a very important part of gameplay when used correctly. A good dps that do good guard swap, or use it at the right moment can reverse a fight. Still, I agree that tanks should have more advantages when using guard.

Maybe make guard less effective when used by a dps ? I was thinking that maybe 20% damage reduction instead of 50% would help a lot. And maybe making tanks able to soak a little bit more damage because of it ? 60% damage absorb would be good too, no ?

 

As for PvE, the damage transfer don't apply so this isn't a bother. I would keep it as a dps for PvE, but just for either the 5% damage reduction or the 25% aggro drop. One of the two should go away.

 

(again, I don't see why removing guard would be the solution. We still have class that can off-heal pretty well. This game is about cooperation, removing every ability allowing for some team play isn't what I call "good" for cooperation.)

Edited October 19, 2017 by supertimtaf

Well, guard is a very important part of gameplay when used correctly. A good dps that do good guard swap, or use it at the right moment can reverse a fight. Still, I agree that tanks should have more advantages when using guard.

Maybe make guard less effective when used by a dps ? I was thinking that maybe 20% damage reduction instead of 50% would help a lot. And maybe making tanks able to soak a little bit more damage because of it ? 60% damage absorb would be good too, no ?

 

As for PvE, the damage transfer don't apply so this isn't a bother. I would keep it as a dps for PvE, but just for either the 5% damage reduction or the 25% aggro drop. One of the two should go away.

 

(again, I don't see why removing guard would be the solution. We still have class that can off-heal pretty well. This game is about cooperation, removing every ability allowing for some team play isn't what I call "good" for cooperation.)

The thing is that DDs having access to guard is often the exact opposite of teamplay. Either they can guard as well as a tank can, in which case why have a tank, or their guards are comparatively weak, in which case they only get in the way when a tank is present. Currently it's the latter, which as a tank I find horribly irritating - that's one of the tank's jobs, and I can't do it while the DDs are guarding half the team. It was one thing back when it was a serious trade-off for them to guard, but now that it's possible without a DPS loss I see this far too often.

 

As to another poster's assertion that tank gear is "useless," I have to disagree. True, the tank stats don't do nearly as much as they could or should in PvP with the lack of physical attacks for defense and the prevalence of high crit% for shield/absorb - if you say defensive stats need buffing, I agree - but they still result in a net damage reduction. My tank philosophy is simple: it's my job to reduce the group's overall DTPS first and foremost. Secondary goal is being a general nuisance to the healers. DPS is a distant third. So if gaining 1000 DPS means an additional 150 DTPS, that's not a trade I'm willing to make. It's not my job, simple as that.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Aulus_Claudius

Dont tell me how to play the game. I guard taunt and aoe taunt in pvp for the medals! That is all Edited October 20, 2017 by Bladedarkman

by removing class stances u ruined the game by letting dps have guard....

 

a dps has no business having a guard that is for tanks only.. fix the game you broke

 

Agreed. However, if your taking a pvp utility away from assassins they need to get something back. We have no raid utility and no pvp utility. Guard as a dps is a great skill for both pvp and pve.

Agreed. However, if your taking a pvp utility away from assassins they need to get something back. We have no raid utility and no pvp utility. Guard as a dps is a great skill for both pvp and pve.

 

It just so happens that I have the perfect deal: phasewalk and pre-nerf sith executioner back for Deception, phasewalk and aoe dmg reduction for Hatred and they can take our guard away with our compliments, smiles and cookies. How about that Dear Dev in charge of Combat Balance? (there's gotta be at least one, yes? )

Edited October 21, 2017 by nyrkverse

Everyone who has guard in pvp, should use guard if possible. Edited October 23, 2017 by cool-dude

Guard was never a part of DD spec identity, and it takes away from a tank's identity and role that they can do this with no sacrifice. I was fine with them guarding back when they had to give up DPS to do it, but now it's become a plague.

 

I play full tank, I will always play full tank with tank gear regardless of current balance and refuse to skank, so for me it very much infringes upon my identity in PvP when I can no longer guard switch because a bunch of DDs have given individual guards out to all the healers. Nothing tilts me more in this game than going to switch guard and some idiot DD already guarded someone and didn't bother to check that his team has a tank, and it's contributed to my almost abandoning PvP entirely.

 

The rest of the tank's job remains unchanged - taunt the appropriate targets on cooldown, stun and generally annoy healers so they can't do their jobs, Guardian Leap allies under attack on cooldown. However guard switch was always a peculiarity of SWTOR PvP tanking, and one which sets it apart from the likes of WoW, and it's sad to see it compromised like this. The best I can do now is request that DDs leave the guard button alone when I'm or another tank is in the area and hope they listen.

 

Very well said, your post was.

by removing class stances u ruined the game by letting dps have guard....

 

a dps has no business having a guard that is for tanks only.. fix the game you broke

 

The game seems to work.

 

Haha jk I'm not going to be an arrogant ******e.

 

I'm fine with DPS having a guard!

Edited November 18, 2017 by doohickeyexpress

Dps having guard makes the tank role obsolete at times. Tanks still have their role, but are less effecive and less useful than before. Swtor is following that ugly trend that all MMORPGs these days do, namely making Tanks useless.

I could list you 10 MMOs where tank classes are not needed anymore, dunno if thats okay with the forum rules tho.

 

Skilled healers actually only need guard and then they can heal up whatever, with DPS actually driving some good damage instead of tanks. In Healer + Guard Dps vs. Healer + Tank, the team with the DPS wins because the tank will eventually run out of cooldowns and then just get bursted down, focusing much more on staying alive than on doing damage, meanwhile the DPS can just continue to use low cooldown damage skills as an infinite ressource.

 

Remove that guard from DPS, Bioware!

Dps having guard makes the tank role obsolete at times. Tanks still have their role, but are less effecive and less useful than before. Swtor is following that ugly trend that all MMORPGs these days do, namely making Tanks useless.

I could list you 10 MMOs where tank classes are not needed anymore, dunno if thats okay with the forum rules tho.

 

Skilled healers actually only need guard and then they can heal up whatever, with DPS actually driving some good damage instead of tanks. In Healer + Guard Dps vs. Healer + Tank, the team with the DPS wins because the tank will eventually run out of cooldowns and then just get bursted down, focusing much more on staying alive than on doing damage, meanwhile the DPS can just continue to use low cooldown damage skills as an infinite ressource.

 

Remove that guard from DPS, Bioware!

 

I will say one thing. If a dps throws up a guard just squish him. Dps specs of tank capable classes are hardly in a place where they want to be taking more damage.

 

On the other hand, as a tank watching 2 people die because one had the other guarded so I couldn't guard either of them is like the fastest way to piss me off.

Another instance of PvP players wanting changes to the game which change the way I PvE.

 

Back yourself up.

 

I play (as PvE) my Hatred Assassin as a hybrid Tank... I recently switched to a gear set with a Focus, but mostly I've been running with a Shield. I haven't done much group content with this character yet (only level 50 or so) because... why would I... but I did go World Boss hunting, and we found it useful when the boss in question spawned adds to have an "off tank" to sweep up the adds. And, because Assassins (regardless of their spec) have Tank utility... I feel entirely justified as playing my character the way I want to play my character (and that's a Tanky build).

 

...what I would prefer to see, is a return to giving the players in a Hybrid role a choice of their stance. Normally, Deception is Surging Charge, Hatred is Lightning and Shadow is Dark Charge... give me the choice of the clearly Tankier Dark Charge for when I need to increase my defense, and Lightning Charge for when I need to DPS.

 

And, this is something that is in WoW, if you want to compare classes (or, it used to be, at least as recently as Pandaria). I totally remember doing a Raid, and seeing that the main tank was about to drop. I'm on a Fury Warrior. I Taunted the boss, popped all my defensive cooldowns ... and then all my offensive cooldowns. I knew I was going to die pretty quick, but I did save the Raid.