- Make Plasma Brands dot over 9 seconds.

- Give Blade Storm and all damage over time effects a 30% critical damage increase.

- Give the spec a 15% movement speed increase.

- Bring back the old Gather Strength PL0X.

Vigilance made viable again .

- Make Plasma Brands dot over 9 seconds.

- Give Blade Storm and all damage over time effects a 30% critical damage increase.

- Give the spec a 15% movement speed increase.

- Bring back the old Gather Strength PL0X.

 

Vigilance made viable again .

- Ditch the movement speed increase. Class is already one of the most mobile.

- Instead of boosting crit damage, increase the damage of burns on targets under 30% HP. Lets REALLY melt them once they pass that point and make Vigi a soft enrage destroyer.

- Ditch the movement speed increase. Class is already one of the most mobile.

- Instead of boosting crit damage, increase the damage of burns on targets under 30% HP. Lets REALLY melt them once they pass that point and make Vigi a soft enrage destroyer.

I like your idea of boosting burn damage, though I think it should be full time instead of when they are under 30% HP, but I wouldn't object to your idea either.

Gather Strength isn't that useful PowerReaper due to unremitting (sp?).

I like your idea of boosting burn damage, though I think it should be full time instead of when they are under 30% HP, but I wouldn't object to your idea either.

 

Gather Strength isn't that useful PowerReaper due to unremitting (sp?).

A 30% boost for 30% of the fight is a 9% boost on overall burn damage, given Vig can currently hold its own in the DPS department, its a nice bump but not overly game changing. Its also really handy for quickly getting through a soft enrage and gives Vigi a bit more of a niche.

Gather Strength is amazing in PVP where snares and roots are handed out like candy. Its sub par in PvE even on a tank as those are much much rarer.

- Make Plasma Brands dot over 9 seconds.

- Give Blade Storm and all damage over time effects a 30% critical damage increase.

- Give the spec a 15% movement speed increase.

- Bring back the old Gather Strength PL0X.

 

Vigilance made viable again .

- Plasma Brand dot ticks over 6 seconds. This would make the high damage that it does more effective in a PVP environment without effecting PVE damage output vs a 9 second tick.

- Single Saber Mastery: Shien Stance boosts melee damage by 6%, and boosts critical damage of Blade Storm and all periodic effects by 30%. This would be a good place to put this buff. Because of how Single Sabery Mastery works, the Blade Storm bonus is locked to Shien Stance blocking both hybird tanks and Focus specs this ability. It would also give low level Guardians a decent burst move outside of Master Strike without being overpowered at those levels in both PVE and PVP environments.

- Narrowed Focus increases movement speed by 15% OR decreases area damage taken by 30%. Narrowed Focus is of little use currently in both PVE and PVP. Either option would be infinitely better. The movement speed would beneficial in a variety of ways, and AOE damage reduction would help solidify Vigilance's role as a "Smash Killer," something it is already fairly good at.

- Gather Strength increases the damage of the next melee attack that uses focus by 10% OR 15%. Stacks up to 3 times. Not quite as potent as pre-patch 5 stacks, but honestly 5 stacks is rare. Setting the stacks to 3 would make the talent much more consistent. Possibly limit it to Shien stance only.

That's how I would implement your proposed, albeit modified, changes without having to change the tree much.

-

Vigilance made viable again .

My own Vigilance wishlist:

- +30% critical damage on burn effects.

- Shorten PB burn.

- Passive AoE damage resistance a la Defensive Roll.

- Commanding Awe also prevents DoTs from breaking Awe.

- Incoming damage lowers active cooldown on Focused Defense (a la Reflexive Shield).

- Narrowed Focus eliminating overtime cost of Focused Defense.

- Critical hits dealt lower active cooldown of Force Push.

- "True Strike" cooldown/mechanic which makes the next Overhead Slash or Dispatch ignore all damage resistance and avoidance (including Undying Rage, shielding and defense).

- Zen Strike procs shortening Master Strike channel times to (not by) 2 seconds.

A big-arse wishlist, the entire implementation of which would undoubtedly make Vigilance overpowered, but I'd very much like to see at least some of those things.

I'd also add that they have to be very careful about increasing burst damage because high burst combined with Unremitting could easily make the spec overpowered. Unremitting is an insanely powerful and important talent, any changes must be made with that in mind.

Another important thing: no changes in the actual playstyle please! I don't want to have some must-use spammable attack like Ion Pulse. Butchering an ability like they did with Guardian Slash should also be out of the question.

I'd also add that they have to be very careful about increasing burst damage because high burst combined with Unremitting could easily make the spec overpowered. Unremitting is an insanely powerful and important talent, any changes must be made with that in mind.

 

Another important thing: no changes in the actual playstyle please! I don't want to have some must-use spammable attack like Ion Pulse. Butchering an ability like they did with Guardian Slash should also be out of the question.

They should make Deafening Defense possibly make Enraged/Focused Defense not cost rage to heal you, making it less useless. And Zen Strike procs of Master Strike to cause Master Strike to channel faster.

Idk what do you think.

They should make Deafening Defense possibly make Enraged/Focused Defense not cost rage to heal you, making it less useless. And Zen Strike procs of Master Strike to cause Master Strike to channel faster.

 

Idk what do you think.

Focused Defense having no cost is a possible proposal. But I would like a clarfication about it... You talk about the activation cost, or the cost that comes afterward ?

About Zen Strike, I don't think you will ever see that live someday. Sorcerers and Sages have a similar effect on Force Lightning and Telekinetic Throw, and it has a long internal CD (10s), so it's unlikely too be compatible with Zen Strike's base effect which cancel the CD while this ability is already way stronger. And it has already the Focus point gain... Focus points + CD cancellation + Alacrity, that would be a lot for a single proc.

Focused Defense having no cost is a possible proposal. But I would like a clarfication about it... You talk about the activation cost, or the cost that comes afterward ?

 

About Zen Strike, I don't think you will ever see that live someday. Sorcerers and Sages have a similar effect on Force Lightning and Telekinetic Throw, and it has a long internal CD (10s), so it's unlikely too be compatible with Zen Strike's base effect which cancel the CD while this ability is already way stronger. And it has already the Focus point gain... Focus points + CD cancellation + Alacrity, that would be a lot for a single proc.

Not the initial cost the cost it spends to heal you wish is incredibly stupid.

Not the initial cost the cost it spends to heal you wish is incredibly stupid.

The frontloaded cost is what's always bothered me, especially since Focused Defense is supposed to be a threat drop, not a survivability CD, and no other threat drop has a resource cost attached to it. The Force cost for each tick of healing is perfectly understandable, especially since it's contingent on you taking damage in the first place. I would be honestly prefer the opening cost were removed outright for both Focus *and* Vigilance. The sustained cost is acceptable enough.

The frontloaded cost is what's always bothered me, especially since Focused Defense is supposed to be a threat drop, not a survivability CD, and no other threat drop has a resource cost attached to it. The Force cost for each tick of healing is perfectly understandable, especially since it's contingent on you taking damage in the first place. I would be honestly prefer the opening cost were removed outright for both Focus *and* Vigilance. The sustained cost is acceptable enough.

In a PVP environment, the priority is switched. For PVP, the front loaded activation cost isn't a problem, it's the continual resource drain that harms us. Additionally, Focused Defense is use as a moderate defensive CD in a PVP environment.

Focused Defense is useful currently in PVP for Vigilance. However, the resource limitations associated with it make it difficult to use whenever you start getting focused like it should be used.

- Make Plasma Brands dot over 9 seconds.

That would be a nice change, I'd prefer more upfront scaling in preference to more damage over time.

-

- Give Blade Storm and all damage over time effects a 30% critical damage increase.

Problem is focus already has a talent that does this in regards to bladestorm. The increase on DoT's would be nice but it could cause problems with some funky focus/vigi hybrids (theory only). Safest bet would be to add surge bonus to master strike as it's one of our cornerstones.

- Give the spec a 15% movement speed increase.

Would be nice.Would prefer minimum range on leap removed/reduced or CD reduced but ill take a speed boost.

- Bring back the old Gather Strength PL0X.

.

Another would be nice but the odds are we will come out of a CC chain and just get globalled before using it. Could also be too potent with yet another focus hybrid and could be just too potent overall. Had minimal impact on pve at best, the tree does suffer from pve utility (we dont bring anything another guardian spec) wouldn't this be a good spot to slot in something?

Concerning raid wide utility, what if the guardian had a skill that increased the defense of everyone in the raid for a brief period of time (ie. making an ideal setup to have a sentinel AND a guardian). Obviously it would have a big cooldown, but would be a step in the right direction.

Furthermore, focused defense as a defensive cooldown and a threat drop isn't working. Its expensive and honestly those two functions need to be two seperate skills.

Concerning raid wide utility, what if the guardian had a skill that increased the defense of everyone in the raid for a brief period of time (ie. making an ideal setup to have a sentinel AND a guardian). Obviously it would have a big cooldown, but would be a step in the right direction.

 

Furthermore, focused defense as a defensive cooldown and a threat drop isn't working. Its expensive and honestly those two functions need to be two seperate skills.

Doesn't necessarily have to be two separate skills. Look at Force Camouflage. 50% damage reduction, threat drop, stealth, increased movement speed all rolled into one. For free.

Doesn't necessarily have to be two separate skills. Look at Force Camouflage. 50% damage reduction, threat drop, stealth, increased movement speed all rolled into one. For free.

The reason that Sentinels find it useful but Guardians don't is that Guardians are a tank capable class. Unless it was intended that Guardian tanks should never touch Focused Defense, the combination of a self heal/survivability CD with their threat drop is pretty bad, considering.

The reason that Sentinels find it useful but Guardians don't is that Guardians are a tank capable class. Unless it was intended that Guardian tanks should never touch Focused Defense, the combination of a self heal/survivability CD with their threat drop is pretty bad, considering.

Well, that is true. But as it IS a threat drop, tanks are indeed not supposed to touch it in PvE, just as Shadow tanks are not supposed to use their combat stealth when tanking, except in very specific circumstances (Incinerate Armor etc.). The self-heal aspect - and the 15% damage reduction that comes with Commanding Awe (which is still in a DPS tree, don't forget, even though most tanks get it) - was probably added to its function with PvP in mind.

The resource cost, however, is ridiculous. You need 14 Focus over 10 seconds to make full use of the thing... that is insane, you basically cannot use any ability but Focus builders if you want the maximum potential self-healing.

The resource cost, however, is ridiculous. You need 14 Focus over 10 seconds to make full use of the thing... that is insane, you basically cannot use any ability but Focus builders if you want the maximum potential self-healing.

It's just poorly thought out overall. It's the only threat drop that requires a resource to be activated, which is just a bit mind boggling, and eats up 14 Focus to heal you for all of 30% of your HP, assuming you even *have* said Focus when you're getting wailed on (since you don't get the heals if you ain't got the Focus).

I have been playing vig since launch and now have lvl 50 shadow and SS gunslinger and i wil say vig need somthing. Over all damages and survivability is great but more often than not we are at a tactical disadvantage. If we don't begin a fight with a leap we are very weak combined with a sunder miss and the dots which a counsler class comando or operative can remove . It does not have the burst to give your team the numbers advantage like other dps classes can, does not have the utility of the shadows or sages. Damage reduction is not needed its already sort of a hybrid dps /tank. Any of the following would help.

1 lower cool down of force push would help maybe roots snars stuns lower coold down 5 sec per .

2 How about swelling winds leads to narrow focus w/ narrow focus causing all burns to erupt and apply full damage imediatly and removes the cool down of sunderstrike so we have a usefull spamable attack and a miss does not mean 4.5 seconds later you can sunder and try to apply PB this is a big problem vs sin tanks and snipers.

3 have PB burns reduce healing.

4 force slow applies a very weak dot to snare and reveal stelthers

none of these would alter pve 1 and 2 help damage 3/4 utility

/Signed.

I agree with all said changes. Honestly when I switched from vigilance to focus @ 1.4 it really pissed me off as I was enjoying the play style of vigilance so much more. I really hope the devs are looking at this thread there are some really great suggestions....

I agree focused def needs some love, you either use it and spam focus builders or you die. Anyway its not like the talent is op, its healing is acceptable at best.. in pve - nearly useless as each hit from boss will do you well over 3k damage and heal you for what? 60 hp? It wont heal 30% of your total hp as someone has stated.. in pvp i only use it to boost my defense to try and run away. Someone also said spending focus to heal yourself is acceptable.. i agree but 1 focus for 60hp isnt worth it. Imo - remove healing aspect of focused defense and make it cost nothing, or better yet - make it a pure defensive ability droping its healing aspect and put "additionaly reduces your threat by a high ammount" in commanding awe ability.

You guys talk a lot about overpowering focus/vig hybrids. Since when can a guardian have both synergy for sweeps and be able to get gathering strenght? Whole point of focus build is based on using combat focus and exhaustion to build synergy. Without either, focus is just as crippled. Besides, you wouldnt benefit from gather strenght as a hybrid because after your first sweep You wont have synergy builder to begin with.

Shortening PB dot seams very reasonable, as it will only boost your pvp effectiveness without affecting pve in any way. Better yet - remove sunder nececity to begin with. Vig spec has absolutely no burst right now. I dont consider master strike to be a burst ability, its too easy to kite and distrupt, leaving you with one, two succesful hits at most which are unlikely to crit..

Heres another thing about vig spec. Our main attack is a cast which is easly interrupted, kited and its white damage.. pve wise - fine, most enemies have nothing agaist it, they will gladly take all damage in but in pvp its a laugh. It only works on incapicated oponents, and by incapicated i mean brain dead. Master strike needs some serious love.

Ive also thought about guardian's party usefulness. I thought about how this game would suffer if guardians werent here at all, nothing came to mind.. less sweepers in pvp maybe? Then i thought about guardian tanks which are inferior to shadow tanks in so many ways its just riddiculous and not even worth mentioning as its obvious. Even vanguards are superior. Then i came to realise, guardians bring nothing to the game at all. They lack as a tank in all departments defense, damage and utility. Everyone who disagrees i encourage you to play shadow or vanguard which dont even need threat enhancement abilities as they dish out so much damage they can hold their agro without them. Then there's shadow ability to stun a mob, which is so useful in ops, most parties wont even bother with a guardian to begin with.

The only thing keeping me from droping my guardian is that i find it cool to be one, thats it..

Pooled hatred needs to return to its pre-nerf form and also have all kids of cc make it proc. It is impossible to get 5 stacks without being nearly dead. Knockbacks, stuns, rooting... it's all movement immpairing effects and yet they do not let Pooled Hatred proc! Only the effects that slow you down do. It's stupid.

Thats kinda why I'd rather them just scrap Pooled Hatred/Gather Strength all together and give us something we could use all the time.