Who says you are getting downgraded?

 

perhaps I have been misinformed, but what I have read & been advised about the bolster mechanic is that it will "normalize" (that's probably a better term than downgraded) gear stats across the group so that essentially everyone has a 162ish ilevel. If you are under that ilevel, it moves you up. if you are above it, it moves you down.

 

Reno, please tell me I have misunderstood or was misinformed.

perhaps I have been misinformed, but what I have read & been advised about the bolster mechanic is that it will "normalize" (that's probably a better term than downgraded) gear stats across the group so that essentially everyone has a 162ish ilevel. If you are under that ilevel, it moves you up. if you are above it, it moves you down.

 

Reno, please tell me I have misunderstood or was misinformed.

 

Don't take my word for it, but I'm pretty shure it's only going to boost those undergeared.

Don't take my word for it, but I'm pretty shure it's only going to boost those undergeared.

 

I hope so buddy, I really hope so.

Don't take my word for it, but I'm pretty shure it's only going to boost those undergeared.

 

Well it would be impossible not to...

 

(Otherwise it wouldn't be a BOOST!)

I don't understand why there is even a need for this?

 

I am a casual player who spent most of their time PVPing, and even I can put together a PVE set that let me into all of the SMs, it only took a few hours to get a starter set together. I even did my first Dread Palace the other week, it was such a smooth run with no wipes. When I asked about joining the pug despite never having run it before they asked me about my gear and my response was clearly adequate because I got an instant invite after I told them my gear levels and that I was purple augmented.

 

Gearing for SM ops is ridiculously easy. You can farm gear for these ops in HM flashpoints and level 50 classic operations. Then when you are ready you can start with the lower level ops and progress through them as you win gear. By giving people bolster, you are basically giving them a shortcut to the higher end raids, without ensuring that they have had practice in clearing easier operations first.

 

Do you really want inexperienced people who haven't done many Ops before running around Dread Palace? It's not their gear that matters most, it's their situational awareness. A well geared newbie can easily wipe a raid by dropping fire on the melee or dropping away a platform under the tank.

I don't understand why there is even a need for this?

 

I am a casual player who spent most of their time PVPing,

 

That is a contradiction.

 

I think many people tend to classify themselves as "casual" when they are anything but.

I'm not sure that's the title you'd want, if you really thought about it...

 

Lols, good catch -- coffee-Barrage hadn't proc'ed yet.

 

Overall, though, I support in principle the idea of getting more people into Ops more easily, specifically us un-guilded-as-yet rabble (which, unless I'm mistaken, is part of the idea here)...but SM only, and please God, no "tactical" zerg-derpfests :/

 

(KDY -- ugh, why is that in the level-cap bracket at all?)

Story Mode Ops are meant to be very accessible and the changes to how they are displayed in Group Finder and the addition of Bolster will allow players to progress through Story Mode as they reach that part of the story, without the need to go and farm gear, or bypass that part of the story and get Oricron gear.

 

I would agree however that players with better gear than the bolster level shouldn't get "bolstered".

Edited May 10, 2014 by MaximusRex

I don't understand why there is even a need for this?

*snip*

 

I'd venture a guess that this is happening the way it's happening (rotation of specific operations) because nobody is really running older operations.

 

Yes a guild run might happen to get a title or a speeder achievement or something but that's it. If you're 2 years late to the party and you just hit 50 you're basically SOL trying to get an EV, KP or EC group to see the story. It just never pops and I can remember like 2 times in the last half a year I saw someone trying to make a story EV group in general chat.

 

This way when EV is up for 30 comm rotation it will actually pop and a couple of 50s can get schlepped through the operation each run. And so they don't get booted the second someone sees sub 25k HP in operations frame they get bolstered.

Edited May 10, 2014 by aeterno

What scares me on this is that if there is too many undergeared players that get bolstered to Artifact level (which is I think less than recommend gear to Ops) then accomplishing might come hard. I am not saying 16 players on Artifact level are not able to do 55 SMs, if they know their jobs it will even be easy. But if these people have lvled with KDY and never learned to play their class/role, operation might turn.. Interesting. They may also think that bolster makes them gods KDY style and not bother to follow basic group play rules. Which is not true because Artifact level is barely enough to SM Ops.

 

I don't believe they will downbolster those who have better gear because then there is zero point to have gear (if you do only SMs

And unorganized PUG downbolstered under recommended gear lvl to those Ops is not very likely to succeed

Before SWTOR I haven't played any other MMO. I'm a semi-casual player who does not join HM of 55s operations because I find SM properly balanced and I didn't need any bolster to enjoy the story mode. It's not a big deal to do repeatedly Emerging Conflicts V, dailies on Makeb and Section X, then HM FPs and finally some OPS. It's a natural progress that makes you a better player en route. Edited May 10, 2014 by PavSalco

A well geared newbie can easily wipe a raid by dropping fire on the melee or dropping away a platform under the tank.

 

In the end, that's my worry. KDY is great for fast and easy XP when leveling, but, I think its obvious that with each TFP you run, your chances of seeing incredibly dumb group-behaviour increases (please see GF thread for examples). The TFPs, as intended, are role-neutral, which, consequently, means that a fair number of people aren't learning their roles.

 

It goes without saying that someone is going to go from 15-54 KDY right into 50-55 bolstered ops. A healer who hasn't had to learn to cleanse. A DPS who hasn't learned to interupt. A tank who hasn't learned to manage and direct a fight.

 

I get that Bioware probably is doing this as a means to address an underutilization. It makes sense from that point and as at least one poster has said, they have never done any SM content, ops or even FPs (past the first one). I'd love to see MORE players doing PVE content. Its a win-win for all of us.

 

But there is only so far you can go. You can survive almost any 'mistake' done in KDY because it was designed to be role-neutral. I think a bolstered SM Ops, even a more forgiving 16-man one, is asking for trouble.

 

Anyways, if it is a 'short-term' thing: fine. Whatever. If they make 'tactical ops,' IN ADDITION to normal ops, that's fine too. We'll see, I guess.

If this goes through can we removed bolster from PvP? Thanks.

SM are easy.

 

If they can pug HM 55 FPs then it is a good gear bolster to speed up progression to higher gear tiers but this isn't a free pass because of mechanics. To use the most self serving example, I have reservations about trying to do the level 50 op SM Explosive Conflict with pug tanks in who need to bolster to have 156 gear? Sure KP and EV and even TFB and S&V aren't nearly as hard, but they do have mechanics that require some effort and teamwork that can be hard without good communication.

 

I get the feeling this really needs clear concise details of the mechanics of each boss on a website with a character limit per paragraph so they can be cut and pasted, paragraph by paragraph in ops chat, so those who step up to lead are not typing it over and over and over.

I don't like this. We have double XP weekends, tactical flashpoints and now bolstered ops. When will people actually (be forced to) learn their class and role? in HM Ops? Oh happy days.

 

Also: I foresee a lot more need rolls in SM Ops, by both totally ungeared people and those who leave their good gear at home so they can justify rolling need on stuff to gear their alts and companions.

Edited May 10, 2014 by KyaniteD

... And if you do, make it work this way: any gear one wears that is under Artifact (156 if I remember correct) quality gets bolstered to Artifact level.

 

Then important part: if one wears lets say full 180 ( or anything above 156) his/her stats will be exactly same than outside bolster. (would help organize gear cuz preview wouldn't be necessary)

Other thing is I simply feel stupid when my stats change around. This pisses me so much I have ran KDY exactly once since it came out. Even if I have 7 alts I try to lvl fast.

 

I am player who is not pro, has not operation guild etc. I am what you would describe "casual"

I still enjoy my weekly SMs. Running Dread Palace always makes me glad, and being locked out annoys

That's why I am most worried. If you turn my weekly SMs I enjoy so to KDY type faceroll I don't know what content will be good for me. I did not put a lot effort to get stat optimized 180 gear and expensive Dread Forged relics to run 16 man

KDY. Bioware, you have sad subscriber right here

 

If you love bolster so, please even make it function like suggested above, so +156 players wouldn't get affected at all:)

simple solution...dont enter group finder..get in a premade group and enter old style

I fully support this update to Group Finder. This is a non issue. As when not going through GF you will not be bolstered. Changing nothing for those who currently run OPS.

 

Glad to finaly see that BW is adding everything to GF like they should.

 

Full support to BW, disagree with this thread. Bolster on.

 

But remove bolster from ranked PVP.

 

 

Remember these are STORY MODE OPS.

That is a contradiction.

 

I think many people tend to classify themselves as "casual" when they are anything but.

 

Since when was participating in unranked pvp a hardcore activity? Tbh I actually meant casual from a PVE perspective... as in I don't do HM 55 ops, NiM ops or guild ops. I occasionally pug into SM 55 or a HM 50 when they are forming, and some weeks I do none. This to me is casual as it's only participating in entry-level stuff on a casual (non scheduled) basis.

 

 

I'd venture a guess that this is happening the way it's happening (rotation of specific operations) because nobody is really running older operations.

 

Yes a guild run might happen to get a title or a speeder achievement or something but that's it. If you're 2 years late to the party and you just hit 50 you're basically SOL trying to get an EV, KP or EC group to see the story. It just never pops and I can remember like 2 times in the last half a year I saw someone trying to make a story EV group in general chat.

 

This way when EV is up for 30 comm rotation it will actually pop and a couple of 50s can get schlepped through the operation each run. And so they don't get booted the second someone sees sub 25k HP in operations frame they get bolstered.

 

There are still people without RotHC? Isn't it free now? Getting into EV and KP is easy, there are pugs forming for them all the time, and on the odd occasion I see a sub-level 55 in the group. EC not so much, so I can understand them wanting to make the old 50 raids more accessable from that perspective, and even TfB or S&V to get people started.

 

Maybe I am just scarred by the horribleness that was LFRaid in WoW. Some groups were ok but some groups... you had to heal like it was hardmode even though the encounter itself was easier than storymode simply to try and carry all the bads, and if the tank was bad with the mechanics then it was all over. And the loot problems... since it was cross server and so many people in the pool, server reputation was no longer important, so getting loot was difficult because so many people rolled on stuff they couldn't use so sometimes you had to compete with half the raid when only you and one other could actually equip the item as an upgrade.

 

SWTOR's quite different so I don't foresee it having anywhere near as many problems as this, thankfully. It should make operations easier to pug into, so maybe this is a good thing after all. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it goes.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Solloby

I don't know what all the fuss is about. There is no way they are going to down bolster anyone. The other issue is pugging is pugging weather it is bolstered or not. Some of these story modes are difficult if you don't know what you are doing. Experienced raiders are going to be needed and on the positive side there will be some noobs who take right to this and learn the mechanics before hand and step up to the challenge. You are going to see more wipes than usual on some of these ops but give it a month. A lot of these guys will become discourged when people wont want to carry them through and repair bills get sky high and the runs should smooth out the more people see and learn the fights. You can tell people to watch as many videos and read as much as they can before hand it is not the real thing. I think this is why Bioware is doing this so more people will try it and a lot of them may enjoy it and learn there roles betters because they don't want to be the cause of the wipe or wipes. You are always going to have looters and people who refuse to learn there class.

i totally support the bolster things, i did remember i just join the game like 6 months ago and nobody even care to start old ops SM let say EV , KP and EC for the story

now i have alerady done all of them even in HM many people who just joined may not have chance to see it

and also i have alt that can gear much faster this way so yeah bolster away

I fully support this update to Group Finder. This is a non issue. As when not going through GF you will not be bolstered. Changing nothing for those who currently run OPS.

 

Glad to finaly see that BW is adding everything to GF like they should.

 

Full support to BW, disagree with this thread. Bolster on.

 

But remove bolster from ranked PVP.

 

 

Remember these are STORY MODE OPS.

 

I wouldn't say its a non-issue, thats a bit too dismissive. The concerns are understandable from some, but again I think what benefits the game has to take precedence, even if it is difficult for a few folks to swallow.

Even if this would have zero effect to overgeared people's stats I can still foresee people running with Tython gear to avoid repairs and justify ninja-needs would like dev comment about this issue

I must admit, as someone who only PVPs, I really do appreciate the irony here.

 

I cannot wait until I am the best specced person in your SM OP due to some messed up mechanic, I will have absolutely no clue how to play my class in a PVE environment, but hey, who cares, it is what bolster does and lets everyone play what they want to right.

 

When your pve gear was bolstered to better than top tier pvp gear, I did not hear the cries from you guys, I really cannot wait.

 

On a serious note, it is just another way BW are making this game easier and easier, you literally could get a monkey to level up for you these days.

 

The PVP system was ruined by bolster, which allowed people who are hopeless at it, to "have a go", and now the same useless people are ruining the ranked system. Your PVE world is about to become the same. Not good for the long term future of the game in my opinion.

 

While they are at it, why not just make everything like these flagship tactical flashpoints, for your OPs as well, do away with the trinity and just all derp to your hearts content.

Edited May 13, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

Even if this would have zero effect to overgeared people's stats I can still foresee people running with Tython gear to avoid repairs and justify ninja-needs would like dev comment about this issue

 

This is partly my concern. Race to lvl 15, head to Kuat until lvl 55, and then right into SM ops. So from starter planet gear directly to 78s is how it will be now? You are correct Adaliaya...this is exactly what some people will do.

I must admit, as someone who only PVPs, I really do appreciate the irony here.

 

I cannot wait until I am the best specced person in your SM OP due to some messed up mechanic, I will have absolutely no clue how to play my class in a PVE environment, but hey, who cares, it is what bolster does and lets everyone play what they want to right.

 

When your pve gear was bolstered to better than top tier pvp gear, I did not hear the cries from you guys, I really cannot wait.

 

On a serious note, it is just another way BW are making this game easier and easier, you literally could get a monkey to level up for you these days.

 

The PVP system was ruined by bolster, which allowed people who are hopeless at it, to "have a go", and now the same useless people are ruining the ranked system. Your PVE world is about to become the same. Not good for the long term future of the game in my opinion.

 

While they are at it, why not just make everything like these flagship tactical flashpoints, for your OPs as well, do away with the trinity and just all derp to your hearts content.

 

Totally spot on. I know I have not seen a PvP match since 2.0 launched. Sure they have "improved" bolster some since then, but I never looked back. I could also never accept bolster at lvl cap for PvP. Had it been only for 10-54 I might have kept at it after 2.0...but nah.