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[BUG] Sniper Debilitating Shots pierces Hydraulic Overrides


Jenzali

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Debilitating Shots

Increases the Trauma duration of Shatter Shot by [3 / 6] seconds. In addition, when Leg Shot's immobilize effect wears off, there is a [50 / 100]% chance the target's movement is slowed by 70% for 3 seconds.

 

Hydraulic Overrides

Grants 6 seconds of immunity from movement-impairing effects, knockdowns and physics and increases movement speed by 30%.

 

As per the definition used everywhere else in the game (except for Covered Escape), movement-impairing effects include both roots and snares.

 

The slow portion that applies after Leg Shot wears off is still a slow, meaning that Hydraulic Overrides should provide immunity to it. As of now, a Sniper can Leg Shot a BH with HO active and the slow will pierce HO and be applied immediately. Seems unintended.

 

Hydraulic Overrides has always provided immunity to both roots and snares (even before it was given to all BH/Troopers), so it makes no sense that one slow bypasses it. So either Hydraulic Overrides has been bugged for a year and a half, or this new talent added to Snipers in 2.0 is bugged. I'm inclined to think it's the latter.

 

Regarding the argument that "movement-impairing effects" do not include both roots and snares. In fact both roots and snares are considered movement-impairing effects.

 

 

Additional argument to show that Covered Escape is the exception, rather than the rule. "Movement-impairing effects" most definitely include both roots and slows. See Mercenary's new talent in the Pyro tree (and similar talents in the Agent/Smuggler Lethality/Dirty Fighting trees):

 

Degauss

Chaff Flare has a [50 / 100]% chance to remove all movement-impairing effects when activated.

 

This removes both roots and snares. Therefore movement-impairing effects include roots, and Hydraulic Overrides should remove and provide immunity to both roots and snares.

 

Edited by Jenzali
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According to the devs in another post, roots and snares aren't movement-impairing effects, so really you should just be rooted.

At least, that is the reasoning they gave for why Covered Escape does not break roots.

 

In my opinion, both abilities should remove all roots and slows.

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According to the devs in another post, roots and snares aren't movement-impairing effects, so really you should just be rooted.

At least, that is the reasoning they gave for why Covered Escape does not break roots.

 

In my opinion, both abilities should remove all roots and slows.

 

I think you got it backwards. From what I've seen covered escape does break roots and snares, it doesn't break CC. Hold the line (should be) exactly the same - and is in every other situation. You can get hard stunned or mez'd but you can't get rooted or snared. Sounds like a bug to me.

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According to the devs in another post, roots and snares aren't movement-impairing effects, so really you should just be rooted.

At least, that is the reasoning they gave for why Covered Escape does not break roots.

 

In my opinion, both abilities should remove all roots and slows.

 

^ This. I saw that dev post too. It was pretty snotty, which is rare for a dev post. They said they would update the "movement-impairing" language to make it clear that it applies to roots while sarcastically suggesting that they should add death to the description since, you know, death also impairs movement. Pretty rude, especially since most people would read "movement-impairing" to include things like roots which, hate to say it, impair your movement. This language is used elsewhere for other abilities which also grant immunity to movement impairing abilities but not too roots. I think Force Speed is one as well as the talented movement buff from the Snipers Covered Escape.

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^ This. I saw that dev post too. It was pretty snotty, which is rare for a dev post. They said they would update the "movement-impairing" language to make it clear that it applies to roots while sarcastically suggesting that they should add death to the description since, you know, death also impairs movement. Pretty rude, especially since most people would read "movement-impairing" to include things like roots which, hate to say it, impair your movement. This language is used elsewhere for other abilities which also grant immunity to movement impairing abilities but not too roots. I think Force Speed is one as well as the talented movement buff from the Snipers Covered Escape.

 

Yea, I'm pretty disappointed that they haven't responded to the replies to that thread.

Covered Escape has the exact same wording as the sorcerer and assassin talents that break movement impairing effects and those remove roots.

If it says it removes movement-impairing effects, it should remove all roots and slows.

If it says it gives immunity to movement-impairing effects, it should give immunity to all roots and slows.

 

All abilities that use this wording should work like that.

Covered Escape and Hydraulic Overrides should be fixed so they match the wording.

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Yea, I'm pretty disappointed that they haven't responded to the replies to that thread.

Covered Escape has the exact same wording as the sorcerer and assassin talents that break movement impairing effects and those remove roots.

If it says it removes movement-impairing effects, it should remove all roots and slows.

If it says it gives immunity to movement-impairing effects, it should give immunity to all roots and slows.

 

All abilities that use this wording should work like that.

Covered Escape and Hydraulic Overrides should be fixed so they match the wording.

 

I don't think the Soec talents that grant immunity to "movement-impairing" effects apply to roots but I haven't played my sorc in a while. The wording is still very poor though, even if that's the case. Needs to be fixed every where it appears.

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My understanding is:

 

Movement impairing = snares

Immobilizing = roots

Physics = knockbacks and pulls. Possibly knockdowns? Not sure.

 

I think the OP is right in that while the root from leg shot should pierce HtL, the additional slow should not.

 

I would agree, however my trooper seems to be immune to knockback while under the effects of Hold The Line.

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As it is in the game, "movement-impairing" effects includes both slows and roots, except for in the case of Covered Escape.

Take a look at the sorcerer talent or assassin talent that break movement-impairing effects. Those work against roots (like Legshot).

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As it is in the game, "movement-impairing" effects includes both slows and roots, except for in the case of Covered Escape.

Take a look at the sorcerer talent or assassin talent that break movement-impairing effects. Those work against roots (like Legshot).

 

Yup. Hydraulic Overrides has always provided immunity to both roots and snares (even before it was given to all BH/Troopers), so it makes no sense that one slow bypasses it. So either Hydraulic Overrides has been bugged for a year and a half, or this new talent added to Snipers in 2.0 is bugged. I'm inclined to think it's the latter.

 

Knockdowns = Spinning Kick, Spike, Shoot First, Hidden Strike

Physics = pulls, and knockbacks (eg. Overload, Force Pull, Force Push, Concussion Charge)

Movement Impairing Effects = roots and slows. Covered Escape seems to be the only exception to this rule.

 

My understanding is:

 

Movement impairing = snares

Immobilizing = roots

Physics = knockbacks and pulls. Possibly knockdowns? Not sure.

 

I think the OP is right in that while the root from leg shot should pierce HtL, the additional slow should not.

 

I strongly disagree with this. If Hydraulic Overrides didn't break and provide immunity to roots, Commandos and Mercs would be just as non-viable as they were pre-2.0, especially in Huttball. As of now it's the only thing providing us pseudo-resistance to leaps because we can remain on the run.

 

I have this bad feeling that me reporting this bug will somehow result in another nerf to Mercs/Commandos if indeed they didn't intend roots to be considered "movement impairing effects".

Edited by Jenzali
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Additional argument to show that Covered Escape is the exception, rather than the rule. "Movement-impairing effects" most definitely include both roots and slows. See Mercenary's new talent in the Pyro tree (and similar talents in the Agent/Smuggler Lethality/Dirty Fighting trees):

 

Degauss

Chaff Flare has a [50 / 100]% chance to remove all movement-impairing effects when activated.

 

This removes both roots and snares. Therefore movement-impairing effects include roots, and Hydraulic Overrides should remove and provide immunity to both roots and snares.

Edited by Jenzali
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- Hydraulic Overrides is something every Trooper gets for Free

- Talent Leg Shot snare is super high in the Marksman tree, only full Marksman spec's can take it.

 

 

Because of this, I'm fine with how it is working atm. I have both a powertech and a sniper.

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- Hydraulic Overrides is something every Trooper gets for Free

- Talent Leg Shot snare is super high in the Marksman tree, only full Marksman spec's can take it.

 

 

Because of this, I'm fine with how it is working atm. I have both a powertech and a sniper.

 

The problem is that these (Hydraulic Overrides and Covered Escape) are escape abilities, and they currently are not doing their job because of these bugs.

Hydraulic Overrides is not immune to all slows.

Covered Escape does not break roots, even though every other ability that breaks movement-impairing effects does break roots.

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I currently have a post about how there are four bosses in the game that utterly ignore Hydraulic Overrides (since the tooltip does say that it makes you immune to physics such as knockbacks - and in my opinion grapples also fall under physics). The Savrip boss in H2+ The Specialists ignores the hydraulic overrides, as does General Ortol, Darth Malgus and Jindo Krey. They all ignore the Hydraulic Overrides. It's most troublesome against General Ortol in Cademimu because he'll knock you into the rocket flames even if you have Hydraulic Overrides going. If you're beside him or slightly behind him, he WILL turn and slap you into the rocket exhaust and kill you. Nobody has yet to give me a valid reason why these four bosses will ignore the Hydraulic Overrides which the tooltip says makes you immune to physics for 10 seconds (Advanced Prototype Powertech talent). It should be pointed out that those four are Bosses. With a Boss buff. There is the Temple Guardian in Athiss that also ignores Hydraulic Overrides. They aren't bosses, they're standard champions.

 

Jindo Krey will yank you from the panel if you have Hydraulic Overrides going. He won't try to yank you UNTIL you touch the panel, and I have tested it numerous times with Hydraulic Overrides running and him yanking me from the panel. And this is right after I activate them and touch the panel. So yes, I was under the influence of Hydraulic Overrides before he pulled me. I haven't tried this with a smuggler or sniper, but if the Hunker Down/Entrench works perfectly against him, why doesn't Hydraulic Overrides? Both abilities are very similar with similar wording in the tooltips.

 

For a while there was a robot encounter in Maelstrom Prison that would ignore my trooper's Hold The Line ability but that was promptly fixed. Now if they are going to have bosses that are allowed to ignore anti-physics abilities like Hunker Down, entrench, hydraulic overrides and hold the line, the boss should have a BUFF on the bar so that the trooper/smuggler/sniper/BH doesn't bother using the ability expecting it to work when it doesn't!

 

It should be also noted that those of us who play these classes have experience using these abilities against numerous mobs and bosses - and having that ability work! So we're accustomed to entering the fray expecting to use some of our channeled, hard hitting abilities like Flamethrower against a boss to get some hard, quick damage before being knocked around like a bunch of namby-pambys. Since an AP has the flamethrower buff which makes it uninterruptible (except for knockbacks), we'll use Hydraulic Overrides to remain stationary and get some good DPS on the boss before that ability wears off. Few things are more frustrating than stacking 3 prototype flamethrower buffs, hitting hydraulic overrides and channeling flamethrower ONLY to be knocked back and thus interrupted!

 

In my opinion, Hydraulic Overrides should either WORK ALL THE TIME, or NOT AT ALL. Or at the very least, give these bosses that IGNORE the ability a special buff or something to let these people know not to burn a useless ability in the encounter.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
  • Dev Post

This issue has been fixed for Game Update 2.2. The patch note is:

 

- Hold the Line/Hydraulic Overrides now properly grants immunity to follow-up movement-impairing effects. (Example: Leg Shot in combination with the Debilitating Shots skill)

 

As a side note, please know we are not able to post in every thread that we see and are investigating, but if a thread is moved from another forum to the Bug Report Forum, you can be pretty sure it's being looked at internally. This thread/issue is a perfect example of that, so I wanted to be sure to point it out for anyone that visits this forum often.

 

:ph_cheers:

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