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An in-depth look at: Revan


Aurbere

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I have wanted to post something like this for a while now, so here it is. Before I start I would like to clear up a few things. First, while this may seem like an anti-Revan thread, it is not. I actually like Revan, but I also understand that he is not the alpha and omega of Star Wars. Second, this thread is meant to inform those who may not know exactly what was going on before, during, and after KOTOR. I will also attempt to clear up some of Revan's abilities on the battlefield, as well as in single combat.

 

*WARNING* Revanites will find this thread to be heresy against their lord and master and should click off this thread immediately.

 

So let's begin. Apologies if this is long, which it will be. As well as apologies for any spoilers.

 

Let's look at his combat abilities first. So many Revanites will say that he mastered every lightsaber form, which he did not. Revan never mastered any Lightsaber form. He may have been proficient in their usage, but nothing close to mastering them. They will also say that he mastered both Light and Dark sides of the Force. He did not. He used both of them. The Light as a Jedi, Dark as a Sith. After becoming reborn, Revan stuck to the Light Side, but fell back on the Dark Side when under heavy stress. They will also say that he could use both sides at once. No he can't. Doing so goes against every G-Canon source stating that you cannot.

 

So now we move on to Revan's actions.

Revan stepped onto the galactic stage during the Mandalore wars. Disobeying the Jedi Council, Revan took several Jedi Knights and Masters with him to lead the Republic against the Mandalorians. The tactics employed by the Mandalorians confused Revan. The Republic couldn't really counter their savage attacks. So Revan decides upon using the Mandalorians tactics against them. With his superior forces, Revan was able to outplay the Mandalorians and beat them at their own game at the final battle of Malachor V.

 

What he does next is shocking however. After the war, Revan finds out that the Jedi Council was correct. The wise masters saw the Sith Empire lurking in the unknown. But Revan couldn't let them know he was wrong. So he takes Malak with him to defeat this Sith Emperor. Full of themselves and their power, Revan and Malak confront the Sith Emperor. But they could never comprehend the power that the Emperor had at his command. The Emperor easily turns them to the Dark Side and sends them to find the Star Forge. The Emperor planned to speed up his invasion by using the Star Forge to quickly build his armada. But upon seeing the power of the Forge, Revan and Malak use the Forge for their own gains and attack the Republic. Catching them unawares, they bring many Jedi and Republic war heroes to their side. With the Republic still in shock, Revan leads a crusade that takes countless lives before the Republic could do anything to stop them. Even when they tried, Revan was able to counter their tactics after spending time serving with them during the Mandalore wars. Eventually, Revan is lured into a trap and is captured by Bastila Shan. The Council reprogams him with a new identity. Those who played KOTOR will know what happens next so I will skip to the end.

 

Revan's destruction of the Star Forge returned him to hero status. But Revan's journey wasn't complete. Returning to the Unknown Regions, this time with Meetra Surik, Revan battles the Emperor again. And again, he is beaten. The Emperor then captures Revan and siphons his power. The only thing keeping Revan alive is Meetra Surik's spirit. But even she could not stop Revan's dive into insanity. Upon Revan's release, Revan travels to the Foundry to enact a plan to kill 97% of Imperial citizens. This includes citizens of imperial conquered worlds. Countless lives would be destroyed, innocent lives. Naturally, the Empire stops him by sending their finest servants to defeat him. Revan could not hope to stand against the Empire's finest. But what happened to Revan? Did he die? Or did he use fold space to escape? I believe he died and the explosion was merely his spirit leaving his body in similar fashion to Palpatines death, though not as grand.

 

So what did Revan do exactly? Nothing really.

He defeated the Mandalorians, that's his only helpful accomplishment. The rest of his actions were either destructive or to fix his mess.

Had he not gone into the unknown regions, Revan would never have attacked the Republic. Had he not attacked the Republic, the Republic would have had a much more powerful defensive force to defeat the returning Sith Empire. Failed to see the real threat and the galaxy paid for it.

 

Revan is a tragic hero who did more harm than good in the long run. That's my opinion.

I apologize for the post being so long and for any spoilers.

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Bet you never guessed that I'd show up here. More surprising perhaps is that I agree with you on most points.

 

What he does next is shocking however. After the war, Revan finds out that the Jedi Council was correct. The wise masters saw the Sith Empire lurking in the unknown. But Revan couldn't let them know he was wrong.

 

Interesting take... Might I ask though, what has given you this interpretation of events? The Masters, based on what I remember from talking to Bastila, sensed a darkness more dangerous than the Mandalorians, and received bad omens in regards to Jedi involvement in the war. But nothing ever suggested they knew that it was lurking in Unknown Space, that it was a Sith Empire, or that it was ever anything other than Revan falling to the darkside and dragging his followers with him.

 

Nor does anything I remember suggest Revan went off to fight the Emperor because he refused to admit he was wrong; I was under the impression that he discovered the Empire, and in his arrogance believed himself to be the person in the galaxy most capable of defeating this new threat.

 

With the Republic still in shock, Revan leads a crusade that takes countless lives before the Republic could do anything to stop them. Even when they tried, Revan was able to counter their tactics after spending time serving with them during the Mandalore wars.

 

Worth mentioning that some (such as G0-T0) believed Revan's intentions were to forge the Republic into something stronger, to counter a greater threat. However this is merely semantics as a) he failed, and b) he waged war with no regard for life, civilian or otherwise.

 

The Emperor then captures Revan and siphons his power. The only thing keeping Revan alive is Meetra Surik's spirit. But even she could not stop Revan's dive into insanity.

 

During this time Revan manages one of his few successes. Delaying the war (without knowing the Emperor's original schedule, it is impossible to say for how long), and pushing the Emperor to the Treaty of Coruscant.

 

So what did Revan do exactly? Nothing really.

He defeated the Mandalorians, that's his only helpful accomplishment. The rest of his actions were either destructive or to fix his mess.

Had he not gone into the unknown regions, Revan would never have attacked the Republic. Had he not attacked the Republic, the Republic would have had a much more powerful defensive force to defeat the returning Sith Empire. Failed to see the real threat and the galaxy paid for it.

 

:- He defeated the Mandalorians and delayed the Empire's return; both of which came at great cost.

:- His obsession with defeating the Emperor/Empire led to all of his other goals (such as fortifying the Republic, whether it be under its own rule or the banner of his own Sith Empire) failing.

:- He perceived the true threat but reacted very poorly to it.

 

His actions may yet have made the difference in the Republic's fight against the Empire, but this is mainly due to the actions of others (which were effected by his presence), and unintentional side effects of his own attempts;

 

 

The most prominent being:

:- His actions gave Scourge the opportunity to enter into the Emperor's trust, thus allowing the Wrath to prolong his own life 300 years and affect the story of sw:tor.

:- The delay in the war allowed the Hero of Tython, the Jedi Knight Scourge fore-sore beating the Emperor, to be born.

 

Although of course, these are hardly to his credit.

Edited by MyDarkSunshine
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Bet you never guessed that I'd show up here. More surprising perhaps is that I agree with you on most points.

 

 

 

Interesting take... Might I ask though, what has given you this interpretation of events? The Masters, based on what I remember from talking to Bastila, sensed a darkness more dangerous than the Mandalorians, and received bad omens in regards to Jedi involvement in the war. But nothing ever suggested they knew that it was lurking in Unknown Space, that it was a Sith Empire, or that it was ever anything other than Revan falling to the darkside and dragging his followers with him.

 

Nor does anything I remember suggest Revan went off to fight the Emperor because he refused to admit he was wrong; I was under the impression that he discovered the Empire, and in his arrogance believed himself to be the person in the galaxy most capable of defeating this new threat.

 

 

 

Worth mentioning some (such as G0-T0) believed Revan's intentions were to forge the Republic into something stronger, to counter a greater threat. However this is merely semantics as a) he failed, and b) he waged war with no regard for life, civilian or otherwise.

 

 

 

During this time Revan manages one of his few successes. Delaying the war (without knowing the Emperor's original schedule, it is impossible to say for how long), and pushing the Emperor to the Treaty of Coruscant.

 

 

 

:- He defeated the Mandalorians and delayed the Empire's return; both of which came at great cost.

:- His obsession with defeating the Emperor/Empire led to all of his other goals (such as fortifying the Republic, whether it be under its own rule or the banner of his own Sith Empire) failing.

:- He perceived the true threat but reacted very poorly to it.

 

His actions may yet have made the difference in the Republic's fight against the Empire, but this is mainly due to the actions of others (which were effected by his presence), and unintentional side effects of his own attempts;

 

 

The most prominent being:

:- His actions gave Scourge the opportunity to enter into the Emperor's trust, thus allowing the Wrath to prolong his own life 300 years and affect the story of sw:tor.

:- The delay in the war allowed the Hero of Tython, the Jedi Knight Scourge fore-sore beating the Emperor, to be born.

 

Although of course, these are hardly to his credit.

 

1.The masters knew something was lurking. While they didn't see the Sith Empire, they knew that something darker was out there. Revan found out and didn't want to hear the masters say I told you so. So he went to defeat this Emperor, and failed.

 

2. Good intentions do not make up for commiting evil acts. Revan destroyed the lives of countless innocents. Carths family is included. While Revan didn't order the attack on Telos, his actions allowed it to happen.

 

3. Revan only fought back the Emperor's mental assault with the help of Meetra Surik. I doubt Revan could manipulate the Emperor alone.

 

Revan reacted to every galaxy threatening situation very poorly. I consider the Mandalore wars to be the most beneficial thing he did for the Republic. The rest only helped the Sith Empire.

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Yeah maybe revan destroyed lives but so did vader not only did he destroy many lived he destroyed a planet, all the Jedi, many children But in the end he was redeemed to the light. Vader makes revans acts look like child play.Vader often went against council he was married like revan. He thought with his saber first. And one good act after 20 years of evil made up for everything. Edited by Newyankalt
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Yeah maybe revan destroyed lives but so did vader not only did he destroy many lived he destroyed a planet, all the Jedi, many children But in the end he was redeemed to the light. Vader makes revans acts look like child play.

 

Who even mentioned Darth Vader?

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Point of order: Revan never actually delayed the Empire's return, he just made them revert back to their originally scheduled invasion.

 

Noted. It is obvious that that is what happened. The Emperor sent Revan and Malak to get the Star Forge up and running to fuel his armada. Revan and Malak then use this weapon with unlimited resources for their own purposes.

 

Again, Revan would have to clean up the mess he created by destroying the Star Forge. And as I said, this only helped the Sith Emperor. This forced him back on schedule and allowed some of the most powerful servants of the Empire to be born and rise in the ranks. My OP details who these individuals are.

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Point of order: Revan never actually delayed the Empire's return, he just made them revert back to their originally scheduled invasion.

 

The Revan novel seems to disagree with you. Or at least, multiple wookieepedia articles citing the Revan novel disagree with you. Not the most accurate of sources but it seems consistent on the matter.

Edited by MyDarkSunshine
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The Revan novel seems to disagree with you. Or at least, multiple wookieepedia articles citing the Revan novel disagree with you. Not the most accurate of sources but it seems consistent on the matter.

 

If you could provide a more reliable source other than the wiki, that would be great. I don't think a wiki is the best place to source canon. Anyone can edit them and we know how some people are.

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If you could provide a more reliable source other than the wiki, that would be great. I don't think a wiki is the best place to source canon. Anyone can edit them and we know how some people are.

 

I disagree... I think Wookieepedia is a great resource... they've been right about practically everything...

 

 

Plus: Not all of us have the novels.

Edited by BrandonSM
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So what you are saying is, then OP, is that it was right to let the Mandalorians burn world after world and take no action against them? "Oh, we see a dark omen in the force, let the Mandalorians destroy world after world." Maybe if the council had acted, as was their duty to the Senate, then there wouldn't have been a schism in the Jedi Order and the Mandalorians would have been stopped and the Republic would have still be relatively strong. Don't put it all on Revan.

 

Had the Council had its way, there would have been no Republic to defend against the Sith Empire.

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I disagree... I think Wookieepedia is a great resource... they've been right about practically everything...

 

 

Plus: Not all of us have the novels.

 

I agree that wookieepedia is useful, but anyone can edit it. Which means that I could go on there and say Jar Jar was a Jedi Master. It may not be true, but the wiki allows me to do that.

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So what you are saying is, then OP, is that it was right to let the Mandalorians burn world after world and take no action against them? "Oh, we see a dark omen in the force, let the Mandalorians destroy world after world." Maybe if the council had acted, as was their duty to the Senate, then there wouldn't have been a schism in the Jedi Order and the Mandalorians would have been stopped and the Republic would have still be relatively strong. Don't put it all on Revan.

 

Had the Council had its way, there would have been no Republic to defend against the Sith Empire.

 

Revan was right in going against the Mandalorians, but he did not listen to the masters' warnings. The Sith Empire was waiting and the masters could see that. They didn't see the Sith specifically, but they knew something far more dangerous was waiting. Revan failed to see it and was lured to the Dark Side. Revan's mistakes after the war led to the unnecessary Jedi Civil War.

I think Revan was right in joining the Republic, but the Jedi Council was right. Something was out there, and Revan was foolish to think he could destroy it alone.

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I have read the revan novel awhile back and I think it said both revan and vitiate we're messing with eachothers mind. Revan with the force kept making the emperor rethink his decision to invade the republic. This was when revan was in stasis so revan in a way delayed the invasion for awhile it seems.
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Revan was right in going against the Mandalorians, but he did not listen to the masters' warnings. The Sith Empire was waiting and the masters could see that. They didn't see the Sith specifically, but they knew something far more dangerous was waiting. Revan failed to see it and was lured to the Dark Side. Revan's mistakes after the war led to the unnecessary Jedi Civil War.

I think Revan was right in joining the Republic, but the Jedi Council was right. Something was out there, and Revan was foolish to think he could destroy it alone.

 

Maybe if the Council had put the full weight of the order into battle against the Mandalorians then Revan would never have had to lead a third of them away. There would never be a schism in the Jedi Order and Reven wouldn't have needed to flee from the Council who was bent on taking out their frustration on the returning Jedi, when it was the council who had been derelict in their duty to protect the Republic.

 

Vrook never acknowledged or apologized for his role in the whole mess. His hubris to the end was most un-Jedi-like. Revan made mistakes, he was corrupted by the technology of the Infinite Empire, but that could have all been avoided if the Council had not be so insistent on inaction.

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I have read the revan novel awhile back and I think it said both revan and vitiate we're messing with eachothers mind. Revan with the force kept making the emperor rethink his decision to invade the republic. This was when revan was in stasis so revan in a way delayed the invasion for awhile it seems.

 

Revan's will was bolstered by Meetra Surik's spirit. Had she not aided him, Revan would have never been able to fight the Emperor.

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Revan's will was bolstered by Meetra Surik's spirit. Had she not aided him, Revan would have never been able to fight the Emperor.

 

But in a way his trip was at least not for nothing and he did what he really wanted anyway to make sure Bastila and his son could have a life of peace.

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Maybe if the Council had put the full weight of the order into battle against the Mandalorians then Revan would never have had to lead a third of them away. There would never be a schism in the Jedi Order and Reven wouldn't have needed to flee from the Council who was bent on taking out their frustration on the returning Jedi, when it was the council who had been derelict in their duty to protect the Republic.

 

Vrook never acknowledged or apologized for his role in the whole mess. His hubris to the end was most un-Jedi-like. Revan made mistakes, he was corrupted by the technology of the Infinite Empire, but that could have all been avoided if the Council had not be so insistent on inaction.

 

The Council was trying to counter the Mandalorian agression with their peaceful stance. Remember, the Mandalorians wanted to fight Jedi. If the Jedi had stayed out of the war, it is likely the Mandalorians would have backed off. But Revan gave them what they wanted. He took the Jedi into war, a war that brought many of them to the Dark Side. Revan countered the Mandalorian agression with his own, starting his journey down the path of the Dark Side. The Council knew that this would happen. Going to war against the Mandalorians would have caused catastrophic damage to the Jedi Order.

 

The Jedi Order was wrong in punishing those who went to war, yes I agree. But I see their reason behind it. Many of the Jedi had been corrupted during the war. The Council couldn't risk a Jedi who fought in the war going Dark andkilling several of their Order. They had to clean house in order to make sure the Order was not tainted by the Dark Side.

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But in a way his trip was at least not for nothing and he did what he really wanted anyway to make sure Bastila and his son could have a life of peace.

 

Actually, Revan did not delay the Empire. The Sith Emperor sent Revan and Malak to find the Star Forge. He intended to have the Star Forge complete his armada and speed his invasion up by 300 years. Destroying the Star Forge only put the Emperor back on schedule.

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Actually, Revan did not delay the Empire. The Sith Emperor sent Revan and Malak to find the Star Forge. He intended to have the Star Forge complete his armada and speed his invasion up by 300 years. Destroying the Star Forge only put the Emperor back on schedule.

 

If revan and malak would have defeated the republic with the star forge than the empire wouldn't need there fleets the galaxy would allready be there's.

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