Hey everyone,

As promised, after a great response to our story mode guides - we've uploaded the voiceover guide for Zorn & Toth on Hard Mode. Please feel free to comment with feedback/suggestions.

Zorn & Toth [Hard Mode] -

If you need the story mode guides, the links are as follows:

Zorn & Toth -

Firebrand & Stormcaller -

Colonel Vorgath (Minesweeper) -

Warlord Kephess -

Thanks again for everyones support!

Therm

Elite Gaming

http://www.youtube.com/Thermal8691

Hey everyone,

 

As promised, after a great response to our story mode guides - we've uploaded the voiceover guide for Zorn & Toth on Hard Mode. Please feel free to comment with feedback/suggestions.

 

Zorn & Toth [Hard Mode] -

 

If you need the story mode guides, the links are as follows:

 

Zorn & Toth -

Firebrand & Stormcaller -

Colonel Vorgath (Minesweeper) -

Warlord Kephess -

 

Thanks again for everyones support!

 

Therm

Elite Gaming

http://www.youtube.com/Thermal8691

great post! thanks! we're from Empress Teta and are getting ready for the Hardmode EC runs. these videos are very helpful.

Hey everyone,

 

As promised, after a great response to our story mode guides - we've uploaded the voiceover guide for Zorn & Toth on Hard Mode. Please feel free to comment with feedback/suggestions.

 

Zorn & Toth [Hard Mode] -

 

If you need the story mode guides, the links are as follows:

 

Zorn & Toth -

Firebrand & Stormcaller -

Colonel Vorgath (Minesweeper) -

Warlord Kephess -

 

Thanks again for everyones support!

 

Therm

Elite Gaming

http://www.youtube.com/Thermal8691

i notice you use 2 jug tanks. and tanks move positions.

what we've been doing is, we have 2 vanguard tanks, and insteand of tank moving positions, we just have the tank taunt the boss on each side and swap the boss's position, and our dps follow the boss as they swap positions.

i was thinking because melee can only stay on one of the boss because of the debuf? so if the tank switch positions then the same boss will always stay on one side?

Just wondering what's the reason or advantage of you guys tanking the 2 boss, with tanks moving positions instead of taunt the boss back. thanks.

Thx for this Video.

Our problem is that the AOE damage in the enrage is so ridiculous that everybody dies with 2 ticks altough at a specific boss hp all dds switch to toth to down him first.

So this actualy means we have to less raidDPS right?

i notice you use 2 jug tanks. and tanks move positions.

 

what we've been doing is, we have 2 vanguard tanks, and insteand of tank moving positions, we just have the tank taunt the boss on each side and swap the boss's position, and our dps follow the boss as they swap positions.

i was thinking because melee can only stay on one of the boss because of the debuf? so if the tank switch positions then the same boss will always stay on one side?

Just wondering what's the reason or advantage of you guys tanking the 2 boss, with tanks moving positions instead of taunt the boss back. thanks.

The Reflect-Buff from Zorn is 30m, Toth´s debuff can be dispelled from melee. Melee staying on Toth avoids the "big" jumpdmg from Toth. Ranged DPS always stay on same position and switch targets after the jumps. There is no difference between switching tank positions or simply spot them to the other side.

Thanks for the replies!

i notice you use 2 jug tanks. and tanks move positions.

 

what we've been doing is, we have 2 vanguard tanks, and insteand of tank moving positions, we just have the tank taunt the boss on each side and swap the boss's position, and our dps follow the boss as they swap positions.

i was thinking because melee can only stay on one of the boss because of the debuf? so if the tank switch positions then the same boss will always stay on one side?

Just wondering what's the reason or advantage of you guys tanking the 2 boss, with tanks moving positions instead of taunt the boss back. thanks.

@Seektravota Really glad that the videos are helping you out, please let us know if we can do anything to help out Thanks for the compliment!

The reason we make the tanks swap as opposed to DPS swapping is for 3 reasons. The first is to maximise DPS, any form of DPS movement reduces raid damage output - resulting in a longer fight so increased damage.

The second reason is to help out the healers - if melee DPS have to switch, then either the healer focussing on them has to remove - resulting in healing loss due to not being able to cast during the movement, or equally if you assign a healer to each side - they will have to swap target rotations frequently during the fight and so can't settle into any kind of rhythm of healing. If they only need to expect a tank swap switch, damage should be pretty constant on either tank so it's easy to get into a good healing rotation between DPS and tanks.

The final reason is to stop too many people getting the debuff/DOT applied (not fearless). The DOT applies to anyone within a 30 meter range of Zorn we believe, switching the positions of the bosses means that the entire raid is vulnerable to receiving the debuff/DOT and so increasing the amount of cleansing done, increasing the damage but as more cleanses are needed - reducing overall healing. If they stay static and only the tanks swap - the group DPSing and healing the Zorn side are the only ones vulnerable and so making cleansing easier and reducing raid-wide damage.

It's totally down to personal preference though - we just feel the above makes the fight smoother

Thx for this Video.

Our problem is that the AOE damage in the enrage is so ridiculous that everybody dies with 2 ticks altough at a specific boss hp all dds switch to toth to down him first.

 

So this actualy means we have to less raidDPS right?

@Onibubu

I think your referring to the 10% damage increase from both bosses? The best advice I can give is on the jump, ensure that the tank who's going to grab Toth moves it as far away from the healers and DPS as they can (sort of taking a route away from the raid back to the tanking position) and then let Toth pounce - then the ranged can get in and burn him down. Most of the time the pounce seems to be what kills people at that point.

If you mean an actual enrage - the best advice I can give in that case is keep melee away (at least 30 meters) and let the ranged do the damage as best they can - this keeps people out of close-mid range AOE and reduces healing intensity. Something like a sniper bubble and individual cooldowns can help at this point.

thanks for the videos. One remark though, the volume seems a little bit low, I had to crank up the dial up to hear you speak.

@Oggthebase

Thanks - we're working on trying to get it to a reasonable level so apologies for the inconvenience - we'll try to improve in future videos. I must have my volume too loud Thanks for the comment and feedback!

Thanks all,

Therm

Elite Gaming

http://www.youtube.com/Thermal8691

The Reflect-Buff from Zorn is 30m, Toth´s debuff can be dispelled from melee. Melee staying on Toth avoids the "big" jumpdmg from Toth. Ranged DPS always stay on same position and switch targets after the jumps. There is no difference between switching tank positions or simply spot them to the other side.

@Schwummel

Thanks for contributing to the discussion - just be aware the fearless debuff is 25 M and not 30, so is manageable by positioning DPS appropriately.

The tank position switch vs boss position switch is down to personal preference. But we feel moving 2 tanks is simpler as healing movement is reduced, allowing for increased healing and damage/mechanics on DPS is constant based on who's assigned to each side.

Equally it's easier to move 2 tanks as opposed to 4 DPS and 2 healers.

Thanks,

Therm

Elite Gaming

http://www.youtube.com/Thermal8691

Hey everyone,

 

As promised, after a great response to our story mode guides - we've uploaded the voiceover guide for Zorn & Toth on Hard Mode. Please feel free to comment with feedback/suggestions.

 

Zorn & Toth [Hard Mode] -

 

If you need the story mode guides, the links are as follows:

 

Zorn & Toth -

Firebrand & Stormcaller -

Colonel Vorgath (Minesweeper) -

Warlord Kephess -

 

Thanks again for everyones support!

 

Therm

Elite Gaming

http://www.youtube.com/Thermal8691

Great Vid Therm !

It helped my guild get those guys down.

It was a pretty intense combat , at least for me as a Merc Healer. Tanks require a lot of heal and also , for me at least , needed to keep our 2 melee dpsers alive out of the jumps.

Now it seems that our raid is waiting more vids from u to down Stormcaller and his tank wifey.

Cheers, and good luck with progress.

will be checking yr youtube channel !

@bordusanu Thanks for the comment!

Therm

Elite Gaming

http://www.youtube.com/Thermal8691

Any tips on squeezing out extra DPS? We pretty much follow this strategy exactly, and even if no one ever gets fearful, zorn is 10%+ higher than toth and we hit the enrage timer. Maybe our transitions are happening slow or something, who knows.

@Bonesmello

It's so hard to advise - i'll be entirely honest, we have the same problem at times aswell. The areas of improvement we can see are as follows:

Maintain healing on DPS - this allows them to stay in combat for longer, sometimes people have to back away from Toth due to his AOE damage - high health = confident DPS.

During the 60% and 20% transitions (red circles), although your ranged need to be moving around - throw in as much damage as you can, it's very easy to stop DPSing just to watch for mechanics here - in this case people need to react to the red circles - not plan for them (if that makes sense). Stacking DOTs moving into this transition will help maintain damage as it's tough to cast at times.

Tanks - throw whatever the hell you can in - 10% is 75K damage. Over the 5:45 second fight, your looking at around an extra 13K damage per minute per target - that's around 210 DPS. If your tanks can pump out an extra 50DPS - then it only leaves 80 DPS each for the DPS classes.

Talent Trees - Peoples specialisations can make all the difference in this fight - we've told all the DPSers to go away and re-look at there specs on more than one occasion to look where they can squeeze a little more damage out of their specs.

It really is about the small things getting this fight down - adrenals, stims, relics - make sure they all work perfectly together and are all being used as much as possible. Also ensure that people aren't wasting stats by hitting their stat caps - if one stat is over the cap - remod gear to get more stats out of the lower stats where possible. Finally, if your tanks really don't struggle - make them both use a DPS stim as opposed to a tank stim.

One final final point On engaging - there can be a lot of time (5 or 10 seconds) just getting the raid positioned. Make sure everyone engages together and are DPSing as they get into position (they also need to know their position automatically if possible so they waste as little time as possible checking ranges). 8 seconds of positioning with no DPS from 4 DPSers results in around 38.5K lost damage.

We're also considering amending the video as Toth going down first seems to lead to a Zorn insta-wipe. Instead we may advise getting Zorn down first out of the 2 and then finish Toth (he needs to be no higher than 5%), we're still testing that though - but may be worth a try putting higher DPS output on Zorn.

Hope the above helps

Therm