Two more things that need to be done:

 

1) Remove the "every comp is a holo to everyone else" thing. It wasn't a bright idea when it was implemented and it's even worse now.

 

2) More personnel that are idle. Not every soldier type needs to be brandishing a gun or swinging a weapon or something. Give us more variety so we can populate ship bridges etc. with them rather than having to relegate them to "fighting" someone or guarding.

 

3) Allow us to put down multiples of our mounts/pets. I'd love to be able to put a battalion of Command Walkers or a fleet of tank speeders on the Rishi ship deck. But nope, one of each.

I understand why people want to get rid of hooks, but another MMO with the hook system managed to have a very similar feel without revamping their system.

 

They increased the X/Y movement by a FACTOR OF 10.

 

You can literally place an item in one room and move it to a spot in the adjacent room, it slides that far. Of course, they also added a Z-axis slider so it doesn't matter if the far-away space is on a different level. This seems critical.

 

So yes, you have to pick a nearby hook and fiddle with the X/Y movement, but the freedom to decorate is nearly as good as a hook-less system. It's certainly worlds better than what we have now.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Xina_LA

I am seriously disheartened to discover that we still haven't heard a single word about any changes to Strongholds that may be planned for the next expansion. The cynic in me whispers that this is probably because there aren't any forthcoming. But sadly, whether there aren't any changes or updates planned, or whether there are and just no one feels it's worth communicating to the players, either way it's a sad indicator of how little attention is put on this.

 

My initial post that launched this thread was meant to try to call out to the devs how much fundamental attention Strongholds need; we are horrendously overdue for QoL review. And I specifically called out how little we get in terms of communication around Strongholds. The total lack of response or communication on anything SH related amidst all the other Onslaught tidbits we're being teased is sadly very telling about how much silent treatment this aspect of the game continues to receive.

 

The last three months have marked the least amount of time I've logged with this game since launch; I've barely touched the game at all. I've been a continuous subscriber since beta. I play every part of this game - end game Ops, GSF, story, solo, conquest, PVP, RP (though granted that's player generated), and everything in between. And among all of these activities that I do, decorating Strongholds is an activity I am perhaps the most passionate about. I know that the degree to which I have obsessed over Strongholds is not common, but nevertheless I know Strongholds remain very popular, and it is absolutely the inability for me to keep decorating (I can no longer access any new strongholds to put decorations in, and in fact one year later I still can't buy Rishi because the question of the cap has been entirely ignored) that has played the most significant part in killing my interest in logging in regularly.

 

When I look at the regularity with which decorations are released in the CM for purchase, and in the game as rewards, I have to think the devs recognize how popular and wanted decorations are as rewards and purchases. I'm sure the numbers support this or they wouldn't be dedicating resources to decorations development.

 

When I look at how many threads regularly get posted in the two Suggestions forums about Strongholds related requests, I have to think the devs recognize how much consistent interest there is in seeing this system expanded and supported.

 

And yet, when I look at how thoroughly the community's feedback on Stronghold needs has been ignored, what it makes me is angry.

 

I have been, for the most part, what many people would probably call a white knight for Bioware, but I try to call out really crappy decisions when I see them, and the utter lack of responsiveness and attention to Strongholds is one of the crappiest.

 

In responses in this thread, and in many other threads throughout the forums and elsewhere, people have made all sorts of interesting and useful requests and suggestions. But I have to come back to the six I called out in my initial post on this thread as the ones I still feel are the most crucial, not to just the wish-lists people might have, but to the actual baseline functionality of the Strongholds system. I elaborated on all of these in the original post.

 

1. Increase the X/Y axes on decorations.

2. Guild flagships desperately need to have their HOOK CAP RAISED.

3. Guilds need to be permitted to unlock more than one ground stronghold.

4. Individual players need to be permitted to buy duplicate copies of a stronghold.

5. Address the stronghold cap by raising it significantly or removing it entirely (players who retained stronghold copies because of the server merge should not be locked out of ever acquiring new strongholds).

6. The strongholds assets and development team needs to be sat down and talked to seriously about ways to dramatically improve the decorating experience, in terms of decorations themselves and especially hook placement.

 

Items 1 and 2 on that list have been asked for AD NAUSEUM for YEARS. At this moment there are four distinct threads asking for guildship hook caps to be raised over the course of the last month alone.

 

And as regards items 4 and 5, I am seeing, with greatly increasing frequency, the most passionate decorators consistently reporting that they no longer have anywhere to put all of the new decorations that are being released because the extremely limited number of strongholds we are permitted are full.

 

We love getting oodles of decorations on Ossus, on Dantooine, for Nightlife, on the CM... but what is the point if there's nowhere to use them? I honestly cannot believe that it's been a year since Rishi was released and we still haven't heard one single whisper about addressing the stronghold cap.

 

I know we're only a month or two from the release of Onslaught. I know changes take time. But this thread was posted in May, and all it does is try to aggregate issues that have been called out for YEARS, and honestly if Onslaught hits with NONE of this addressed I will be more disappointed than I can say.

 

For the first time since Strongholds were released, I find myself wondering if I should even bother to get the newest decorations on offer. I can't use them anywhere (because I have no desire to delete the strongholds I have dedicated years of fine-tuning to), so what's the point of giving my money to the CM for anything new? Releasing new decorations without making new SH spaces available to long-term decorators is like asking artists to pay you to come to your painting class and then not letting anyone have any canvases.

 

Please, Bioware team. I have long loved this game, but in more than seven years I've never felt so disinterested in logging in as I do now. I can't tell you how much being able to spend hours playing with newly available Stronghold stages would help turn that around and incentivize me to bother grinding for decos again. I know there's an expansion around the corner, but please take to heart the idea that if it releases without a single QoL update being rolled out for a component of the game as popular as Strongholds, then you have seriously missed the mark somewhere.

Edited August 10, 2019 by JediBoadicea

I've read over this thread several times now. There are a number of REALLY GOOD suggestions and some individual posts that reflect a great deal of thought. IMO.. the dev team would do well to review this entire thread and take it to heart. I know ... right now the entire team has their hands full ! But consider this.

 

The entire SH idea has been and still is a fantastic idea ! It works !! For the most part those who want to develop one will spend a lot of time, effort and even cash (CM amenities) in order to build one up! IMO... It would be well worth the time spent to develop additional components more suited for the individual SH that currently exist and look at the development of new ones. By that I mean new ideas: like a space station or even one in a country setting (for the 6.0 setting).

 

I know that the dev team has the capabilities .... they just need the green light from the right people to get focused on the Strongholds ...

 

Along those lines I would like to add a couple of brief points:

1. The availability of items that can be used in the "small" green slots. This is true whether they are located on the floor, wall or ceiling. You can only purchase so many of the junk lights and make the walls look right. You can only place so many companions, pets, trash .. etc on the floor. BTW... it should be noted that the number of companions, pets .. personnel and other NPC's is extremely limited... that needs to change as well. Datacron container farming usually yields only a small amount. I just ran all of the heroics on Tatooine , Nar Shaddaa and Balmorra with zero drops. In fact I created a new smuggler and made sure I watched those areas for datacron containers ... nadda !

 

2. Some of the items that are dropped as application for the small green squares are not the right size ... A classic example of this is the red / blue / green ... (whatever color) crystal containers from Ossus. Yes .. they drop frequently enough ... but they just don't seem to fit any where ! If they were scaled down about 1/2 their size .. then yes they might serve a purpose without taking away from everything else in the area. I've tried to use them in several areas ... only to have to remove them because they are so ... BIG (trying to be nice).

 

In short .. there needs to be a LOT more available to fit in those small green squares. And these new items should be available in several themes ...

My experience tells me there won’t be any changes in 6.0 because it will all be about new playable content and class /gear changes,

If they have strong hold stuff planned, I would not expect to see it till 6.2 or 6.3 because 6.1 will be about bug fixes and balancing classes around new abilities and gear changes. So basically April-May next year is when it would be delivered and would be announced at the end of January when they get back from Xmas holidays.

1. Increase the X/Y axes on decorations.

2. Guild flagships desperately need to have their HOOK CAP RAISED.

3. Guilds need to be permitted to unlock more than one ground stronghold.

4. Individual players need to be permitted to buy duplicate copies of a stronghold.

5. Address the stronghold cap by raising it significantly or removing it entirely (players who retained stronghold copies because of the server merge should not be locked out of ever acquiring new strongholds).

6. The strongholds assets and development team needs to be sat down and talked to seriously about ways to dramatically improve the decorating experience, in terms of decorations themselves and especially hook placement.

 

I am happy to see this thread getting some much-needed traction. While I have plenty to add I don't want to deviate from the OP's original laundry list in the above quote by throwing my own wish list into the works. There are hundreds of posts already out there that offer some great ideas.

 

I do want to express my own extreme frustration, disappointment and dissatisfaction that the Dev team has continuously ignored the needs of the Stronghold community for so long. I am an avid decorator who capitalized on the last server merge and ended up with multiple copies. However, when Rishi came out and I tried to purchase it I received a message prompt from the Rishi SH terminal alerting me that I was over my limit and that I could not purchase the new stronghold until I was back under the current cap of 10. I did not do this because I hated the idea of losing all my extra copies due to some arbitrary limit cap. I do not consider being forced to delete multiple copies of a SH in order to make room for 1 to be a fair exchange, so I had no choice but to abstain from purchasing Rishi, remain patient and hope that this new issue that had arisen would be addressed by the Devs.

 

In this post I'd like to focus specifically on Points 4 and 5: Current stronghold caps and allowing players to purchase multiple copies.

 

A year has passed and there has been not been a single word from the Devs about these issues and the many other QoL issues that have been a tremendous source of frustration for the Stronghold community.

 

I imagine most of the people who didn't capitalize on the server merge could care less about this situation, and might think that those of us who managed to acquire multiple SH copies to be cheating or exploiting the system in some way. To those of you who think I am just being greedy or spoiled and believe I should delete all my extra copies if I truly want to unlock Rishi my question is: why should I have to? Why should I be forced to delete these precious copies I was fortunate enough to get from the merger in order to unlock a new stronghold? A better question I have is: why can't players simply be allowed to purchase as many extra copies of a SH that they want? Why is there such a small cap to begin with? If anything, the server merge--whether it was by sheer mistake or some kind of coding fluke--proved that it was indeed possible for players to possess multiple copies of strongholds, so why continue to impose these limitations of only 1 type of SH per player and a maximum of 10 total?

 

Some of you scratch your heads as to why anybody would need or want multiple copies of a stronghold. To them I simply ask: is it really that hard for you to guess? If so, then here is my very simple answer: An empty stronghold is a fresh new canvas. As a SH decorator I would much rather have multiple canvases to design a variety of layouts rather than be limited to just one. It's as simple as that. While Strongholds were originally intended to be a kind of supplemental game mechanic for the Conquest system, time has proven that they ultimately serve far better as an outlet for creative expression.

 

While I certainly appreciate the addition of Rishi, we still have a relatively limited selection of strongholds to choose from. Some locales happen to be much more versatile than others, and I would like to have the option of acquiring multiple copies of a stronghold so I have the freedom and satisfaction of decorating any locale I wish in a variety of themes and layouts suited to my tastes. The last server merge has already proven that it is absolutely possible for players to own multiple copies without breaking the game... so why continue to impose these limitations on us?

My experience tells me there won’t be any changes in 6.0 because it will all be about new playable content and class /gear changes,

If they have strong hold stuff planned, I would not expect to see it till 6.2 or 6.3 because 6.1 will be about bug fixes and balancing classes around new abilities and gear changes. So basically April-May next year is when it would be delivered and would be announced at the end of January when they get back from Xmas holidays.

 

I would agree that the primary thrust of 6.0 would be centered around revamping class , gear , playable content. And I would also agree that it will be closer to April for the next major phase (we'll call it 6.1 or 6.2). Hopefully in that release we can see a new class (OT.. we'll save that for later) and most importantly improvements in areas such as the strongholds.

 

BUT... if things work out that way... I can wait until then to get what we really would like to see in game.

I would agree that the primary thrust of 6.0 would be centered around revamping class , gear , playable content. And I would also agree that it will be closer to April for the next major phase (we'll call it 6.1 or 6.2). Hopefully in that release we can see a new class (OT.. we'll save that for later) and most importantly improvements in areas such as the strongholds.

 

BUT... if things work out that way... I can wait until then to get what we really would like to see in game.

 

I wish you luck my friend. As I’m not sure I will be able to post for much longer because I’ve unsubbed. I hope you get your wish and the game gets what it deserves in the next 6-12 months.

I somehow missed this post back in February, however JediBoadicea raised some excellent points on behalf of us Stronghold enthusiasts. I wholeheartedly support:

4. Individual players need to be permitted to buy duplicate copies of a stronghold. I started banging this drum before Rishi came out, and it became all the more relevant after Rishi came out and the stronghold cap wasn't raised. In the time since the Rishi SH release, we've seen a (wonderful) increase in direct sale decos, and a (wonderful) increase in deco availability from other means in game. And as this has happened, I've seen a marked increase in decorators commenting that they are now collecting all sorts of decos they can't actually use anywhere because they've got nowhere to put them - not without sacrificing previous work they've done. New decorations are clearly going to be coming out regularly while new strongholds are not so frequent, so this is an imbalance that is only going to keep increasing. As I've mentioned elsewhere, the server merge proved individuals can have duplicate copies of a stronghold. Please give us the ability to unlock additional copies and stronghold slots by choice. Decorators who can unlock more SH copies are going to want to fill them, and that means they'll buy more decos.

 

5. Address the stronghold cap. There are other players like myself who are already at cap thanks to the server merge. I still don't have Rishi because of it. With every new SH released more players are going to be in the same position. The time to address this was a year ago before Rishi came out, but certainly it needs to be addressed before the next SH comes out (whether that's a Dantooine SH or anything else). We haven't heard a single whisper from the devs on this question, and that silence is fueling frustration. It's proven that the game can support a player having way more than the current SH cap of 10 (up to 35 in fact). If it's never going to be more than 10, then at least let us know. It means I'll probably never have reason to unlock future SHs, and a lot less incentive for buying all those new decos... but then that's the point I'm trying to make. A necessary cap is one thing. An arbitrary one is another. We need to know which kind we're dealing with.

I have posted and suggested via PM about being allowed to have/buy duplicates of existing strongholds many times. This would greatly enhance my "reasons to stay subbed" thinking. I prefer the small-to-medium size strongholds (Nar Shadaa in particular) and would love to be able to buy more of these to decorate in various themes. The larger strongholds tend to have awful hook placements or be irritating to navigate (Manaan I found to be very disappointing in reality - the hook placements are just awful, especially in the first open are, the Umbara train is annoying to Navigate and Yavin/Tatooine are just too massive with badly placed hooks). Rishi was altered after PTS feedback from decorators (myself included) which led to it being much more decorator friendly, but it is still far too big for me. I would buy/unlock more Nar Shaddaas for any price should having additional/duplicate strongholds become available.

 

 

6. The strongholds assets and development team needs to be sat down and talked to seriously about ways to dramatically improve the decorating experience, in terms of decorations themselves and especially hook placement. Right now, and dating back to the release of the Yavin SH, the overwhelming impression that an avid decorator gets from looking at new decorations created for the game, and the way hooks are laid, is that the strongholds team members have not actually spent any significant amount of time using the system to decorate. This isn't about asking them to do more work than they're already doing, it's about asking them to do more thoughtful work. To wit:

• When new decorations are created, whoever is determining what hooks they can go on needs to be so much more thoughtful. Far, far too many decorations are locked to Centerpiece hooks when they could very easily fit on Larges (look at the new Primordial Altar for example). This dramatically limits our ability to use them, and makes them much less desirable purchases. (I mean, for pity's sake, there is only ONE SINGLE Centerpiece hook on a guildship anywhere outside the Hangar deck.)
  
  • In line with the above, if a decoration can be fitted on a Medium hook without fully obscuring the hook in at least some of its dimensions, then make sure it can be used on a Medium and not locked to a Large. The team did a great job listening to our feedback about the Martial wall decos, making them usable on Mediums and Medium Narrows, and that has turned them into some of the most useful and versatile decorations in the whole game. This should be the standard for ALL decos. Your team members need to not assign hooks to decos by eyeballing or assumptions - please actually take the extra seconds or minutes needed to PLACE them and see if they could fit on a wider range of hooks. The smallest hook they can fit on without fully obscuring the hook is what they should be assigned to, smallest hook and every hook size larger.
    

  [*]People laying hooks need to stop approaching this as a pattern-making exercise. The goal should not be to fit blue, green, and pink blocks in such a way that pretty patterns are made while in editing mode. The goal should be to achieve as much floor/wall coverage as possible, using the largest hooks possible provided they can be broken down into smaller ones. This problem was egregious with Manaan, and it was pretty bad with Rishi too in its first iterations. Don't lay a Small hook if a Medium Narrow would fit in the same space. Don't use a Narrow if a Medium would fit in the same space. Don't use a Medium if a Large would fit in the same space. Do not leave huge sections of open ground with no hooks, especially not near walls, and especially not so far away from the next hook that those measly 20 degrees of axis movement won't allow us to close the gap. Remember that we can't even get those pretty new and narrow Weapon Rack displays to the edge of a Large hook, so how much worse are they going to look floating alone in space when there's also a huge gap between that Large hook and the next hook over?

  [*]Pretty decoration design is nice, but it's no substitute for correct dimensions. The people designing new decos need to actually test and analyze them before they are finalized for sale. This means that if you are designing a chair or a couch, you need to test if an avatar can actually use the /chair emote on them and not end up floating two feet above the chair (we're not playing Zuul possession and sleeping four feet above our covers, we are trying to approximate usability). Decorations like the Zakuulan Socialite Couch are scaled completely wrong for avatars to actually appear like they are sitting on them. The couch in the newer Mandalorian decos bundle is the same. Many of the larger throne-style arrangements have this problem too. Body type 4 avatars can't fit at all in many of the chairs. This doesn't just make decos weird to "use" for RPer types, it also makes them not scale correctly with other decorations in the same setting, which limits their functionality and desirability.

It might be an idea to involve the decorating enthusiasts in developing/testing future SH hook placements and overall stronghold design. Granted, there may be many views on placements, however the feedback from the Rishi SH PTS shows that we can reach a consensus.

 

The OP mentioned that this wasn't a thread for individual issues, however, I must mention that bought decorations are still being overridden in the decoration list by in-game decorations (e.g. the nightlife event patrons overrode our underworld pack patrons which many of us bought directly from the Cartel Market). This is making me reluctant to buy more decorations from the CM until it is fixed. Is anyone in the Dev department giving this any attention? If not, refund us please. Stronghold decoration fixes should not take years.

I understand the need to add more core content to the game.

Although I didn't notice many threads calling for class rebalancing, if it's needed, it's needed.

So I'm not expecting a whole revamp of the SH system, just a few key upgrades would do.

And... bug fixes.

 

At least for me, the wait for stronghold upgrades wouldn't be so frustrating if every release of new decorations in the last year wasn't buggy. Seriously, it's no exaggeration. I'm being quite literal here. We've seen decos that don't show in inventory, don't sit properly in the hook, have a duplicate name and block out other decos, can't be donated to a guild, don't respond to Rotation controls.... you get the idea. This includes event decos (IE: NIghtlife and Pirate Incursion) and new Cartel Market releases.

 

The Search box bug still hasn't been fully fixed. You can end up having to restart your client.

 

There's a bug where you can Reset the decoration's X/Y and rotation settings and the UI updates but the deco doesn't move.

 

And so on. The general sloppiness gives the impression that Bioware really doesn't care about the SH decorating community. How long has it been since QA droid posted about these issues?

 

Much of the good will that might have been earned by releasing new decorations is lost when they're buggy and don't get fixed in a timely manner.

 

TLDR: We do need Dev attention. QUALITY attention, not more slap-dash, distracted attention.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Xina_LA

Mostly, I'd like to see more "ordinary" furniture. There seems to be a general lack of beds, sofas, comfy chairs, bookshelves, coffee tables, etc - things that would make a Stronghold a home. (And when there are, they usually have to be some sort of uncomfortable looking Zakuul, Mandolorian, etc things rather than just "Acme Furniture" )

However, I do realize that it appears as though many people like things to be more "star-warsy" so, I suppose I'm in the minority and have to make do with the scraps.

 

(I have the same complaint about armor/clothing as well. Not everyone in the SW universe (and even in the movies) is always dressed in some sort of oddball gear with spikes, hoses, backpacks, etc "weird" stuff on it.)

(It was nice to see them come out with the "beach wear" set, but really, only the shorts are sort of "normal" and even then they have to ruin them with 2 colour strips down the front for no reason. It could be so much better with some sort of normal top with regular sandals/flip-flops)

 

Just had another thought - how about wrist guards where one looks like a watch type device and one is transparent.

Edited August 7, 2019 by JediQuaker

The mistake they made from day 1 was using a hook system they should have had the same style as other games where you can place deco's anywhere you want within reason it's a complete mess in my eyes and needs to be changed in future strongholds not to use some horrid hook system that is bad and then getting stuck on decorations is another flaw some you can't even /stuck on due to placement.

I wish you luck my friend. As I’m not sure I will be able to post for much longer because I’ve unsubbed. I hope you get your wish and the game gets what it deserves in the next 6-12 months.

 

I appreciate your kind words... and I wish you would reconsider your decision regarding subscription !

Bugged decorations with the same names is fairly annoying. They should have a master list so such things don't happen. Looking at you Nightlife and Underworld Patrons that cost CC.

 

I would love more placement options from rotation, location and especially height. Not having npc decorations falling through furniture without watching the SH intro would be so nice. Getting those instruments and npc's up on the concert stage. Or chairs, couches, beds, tables that it takes so much trick placement to get npc's to stay at now.

Mostly, I'd like to see more "ordinary" furniture. There seems to be a general lack of beds, sofas, comfy chairs, bookshelves, coffee tables, etc - things that would make a Stronghold a home. (And when there are, they usually have to be some sort of uncomfortable looking Zakuul, Mandolorian, etc things rather than just "Acme Furniture" )

However, I do realize that it appears as though many people like things to be more "star-warsy" so, I suppose I'm in the minority and have to make do with the scraps.

 

(I have the same complaint about armor/clothing as well. Not everyone in the SW universe (and even in the movies) is always dressed in some sort of oddball gear with spikes, hoses, backpacks, etc "weird" stuff on it.)

(It was nice to see them come out with the "beach wear" set, but really, only the shorts are sort of "normal" and even then they have to ruin them with 2 colour strips down the front for no reason. It could be so much better with some sort of normal top with regular sandals/flip-flops)

 

Just had another thought - how about wrist guards where one looks like a watch type device and one is transparent.

 

I agree completely !!!

 

There are not enough "practical" items that can be used when setting up a SH. Even if a player wants to set up rooms with particular themes in a room: ie. Zakuul or trophies from Zakuul. There's just not enough items from that era that can fill an entire area ! You might find some bazaar science piece ... then a couple of sky trooper displays .. maybe a piece that hangs on the wall as a trophy of sorts. AFTER that we need to figure out to make that work with hanging moss for the walls or corner ruins in the middle of the room.

 

It's too bad that we can't consistently get normal furniture or FLOOR LAMPS and other sources of lights. As it stands now we can't even place enough of our companions, pets, and/ or models in ONE SH without getting that nasty notice that we have reached our limit for placing NPC's in that same SH !!! Good grief... too many restrictions on the simple items.

 

I have to admit though .. I have found the fish tanks from Manaan very helpful in more than one SH location (Even the balcony at Tatooine).

 

BTW... has anyone else tried to actually use those crystal holders. I can from time to time .. but for them to be one of the primary drops on Ossus (all of which are BOP I might add) .. they are WAY too big for the small green hooks that they are intended for.

 

Ossus trading stamps (OK .. I know they are called something else) ... but you know where I'm coming from with that analysis. The number of actual items we can purchase with the trading stamps is kind of pitiful ... actually ! I appreciate the Jedi stuff we can get (light side) .. but that handful of items only works in a few places. I've been maxed out on the currency for so long that there's no telling how many relics ... trading stamps or what ever in the name of common sense they are... They're pretty much useless ! Here was a golden opportunity to help players sink a lot of cash and credits into a SH ... but wasted it ! And I hope that Dantoonie has more available than what I've seen lately !

 

Sorry... Not trying to be so negative. Let's just say that there is a golden opportunity to make some good choices that will benefit everyone : including BW.

 

IMO.. with the kind of changes that most of us are asking for, more people will spend more time and money making better use of Strongholds ! and that's a win-win !

On the one hand, I have noticed the team quietly giving more attention to strongholds and decorations. On the other hand, the list of things needing to be done is still pretty long. I appreciate the work done, but I also want a lot of the things mentioned in the is thread.

 

The way I would summarize my feelings is this:

 

**Please** let us have mostly blank canvases to work on. Let us determine what we want a room to be and give us the tools to make it that way. If we need a computer against a wall, please give us the means. If we need to place two or more rugs end to end, please give us the means. If we want to turn a sitting room into a ship's cockpit please give us the means!

 

I know deciding a room can be some kind of living room or bed room is an easier thing to design, but we want almost as much freedom to repurpose and place items as the artists themselves have. Think of how many lights have been turned into fountains and "computers" repurposed into other things to make a map work for the atmosphere it is meant to convey.

 

 

__________

Side note: Are the formatting buttons and various drop downs for editing a forum post broken for anyone else?

I know ... right now the entire team has their hands full ! But consider this.

 

The entire SH idea has been and still is a fantastic idea ! It works !! For the most part those who want to develop one will spend a lot of time, effort and even cash (CM amenities) in order to build one up! IMO... It would be well worth the time spent to develop additional components more suited for the individual SH that currently exist and look at the development of new ones.

 

^^^^ This.

 

Obviously the only reason I'm worked up enough to write these passionate posts is because I love Strongholds. It is far from a perfect system (I mean, the whole point of this thread is to talk about where it desperately needs to be improved), but on the whole, as OlBuzzard said: IT WORKS. I don't want them to stop improving it, but as it is it does work and that's what makes it all the more mystifying and frustrating to see it overlooked.

 

There's nothing to fix from the ground-up, there's nothing that needs excruciating math to rebalance, there's nothing that's going to enrage players who can no longer 'win' because there's no winning there's just enjoyment. Strongholds offer a creative outlet for both solo decorators doing it for their own pleasure, and for decorators doing it for RP to build in-game communities, and for decorators doing it for their guilds to build in-game activities, and yes even for decorators doing it just to get attention for their craft.

 

The point is that it works for a lot of people just as it is, and the fact that the team keeps dumping resources into designing new decorations proves that it also must be profitable for the studio, otherwise it would be relegated to the back rooms and forgotten like so many other things in the game.

 

If it's profitable enough to milk us for money over, then it should be profitable enough to get some attention on key issues.

 

I don't mean to be all negativity, because there have been glimpses of great stuff from the team that I really appreciate. The decorations that have been released in the last year and a half have all been of fantastic visual quality (yes, there are bugs, and quality control seriously needs to be improved, but there's TLC and artistry in their design that I appreciate), even if their hook assignment is still terribly poorly thought-out. The increase in amount of new decos being released is noticeable and wonderful too; between what was released for Ossus, for Dantooine, for Nightlife, and on the CM, in the last year alone we've gotten just tons of new decos and that's completely great. Occasionally we get stealth improvements like hooks being added to Centerpieces (I wish they weren't so stealthy, don't SH updates deserve to be in patch notes?) and that's good too.

 

I was also eyeball-deep in providing dozens of detailed pages (and countless hours of testing) feedback on the Rishi stronghold during the PTS phase, as I know others were. I saw firsthand how the dev team incorporated a lot of what we called out; I'm especially proud of the fact that it was our feedback that got them to make the Martial Wall decos fit on Medium Narrows. That experience proved to me that it's totally possible for feedback to be incorporated for the benefit of all, and yet I feel like outside of that singular experience with Rishi on the PTS most of our most ardent pleas have been met with silence. The list of core issues I called out in this thread are just the most egregious.

 

The experience with Rishi on the PTS also left me with a few other thoughts. Like, for one, the dev team heroically turned around a whole new addition to the Rishi SH (the cliffside apartment) in a matter of days. I imagine they did that in crunch time mode which is not ideal, but it proves that in fact small strongholds of that size (small apartments) can be created fairly swiftly. Players have been calling out for more strongholds of varied sizes for a very long time; rather than making us wait a year or more between new Strongholds, why couldn't we see just smaller ones more frequently? As impressive as sprawling spaces like Rishi and Tatooine are, for a lot of people they are also simply too big. It is actually better to give us more stages more frequently even if they're smaller than to starve us for content just waiting for once-every-1.5-year mansions.

 

But then of course, if they start releasing smaller Strongholds more frequently, even those who haven't been already blocked by the personal cap will be blocked very soon indeed.

 

I love GSF. I've loved GSF since launch. Few parts of this game have been more marginalized than GSF, but even GSF, when it got a (wonderful and revitalizing) revamp, did so with the devs reaching out to focus group with some key community members. I really think it's time for Strongholds to get the same treatment. Even just as a forum reader I've easily been able to identify the folks on the forums who have been key contributors to bug-reporting and issues-monitoring for Strongholds, so I have to hope the devs can do the same mental tallying. PTS feedback seems to be one of the most ideal ways to cast the widest net for community input, but of course PTS requires a product to be reviewed in the first place, which I don't think is so much the issue with Strongholds where the QoL needed is systemic.

Edited August 8, 2019 by JediBoadicea

Great post from the Op, very well put.

BioWares increased Decoration for "Direct Sale" is really good. I appreciate that quite a lot as sometimes I like to think on these for a bit before deciding. I'm sure this has increased their Income keeping them up far longer.

I would buy a Tatooine stronghold if they Lowered the price a bit; too many issues with that one to be considered at that price.

Edited August 8, 2019 by MikeCobalt

Perhaps someone attending the next Cantina event could ask them about Z-axis and other suggestions for improving strongholds?

Honestly, I wish they would take all of the decos that have ever been released through packs, and put them for direct sale. Cause the limited quantities that come in through the packs are still so severely low, that it stunts the whole housing feature of the game for most players. You have a house, but you can't do anything with it, unless you have tons of credits for deco, and even then, the supply is so small that it makes many give up in frustration.

I'd like to add that 90% of my Cartel Coin purchases were specifically for buying decorations.

IIRC, I've only bought one mount, one outfit, one pet, and two weapons through the Cartel Market.

Plus a sprinkling of packs here and there, if they contained a deco I just had to have.

The rest has been on decorations, especially bundles of new items and single items.

 

Sadly, I don't like the latest few decoration bundles. If they made the Centerpiece decorations also work with Large hooks, I would buy them. Or if the X/Y sliders went twice as far.

 

So... yeah. Stronghold hook upgrades would make me spend more money.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Xina_LA

I don't have much hope for any improvements to decorating for 6.0 beyond some new ones to go with the new content. I just hope they don't break more things. I'm worried that they won't fix the vendor icons they put on vendor decos on the PTS. If you didn't pop over there, mailboxes and vendors have flashing neon green signs over the top of them and they can't be turned off and persist even if you disable the interface. If they don't add in a way to turn those off I won't be able to take screenshots in many of my stronghold rooms without redecorating.

I absolutely agree with all the points the OP made as well as many of the thoughtful well laid out points so many posters have already laid out. So much so I havent really much to say myself except 3 things.

1) This vvv (just to keep in mind)

My experience tells me there won’t be any changes in 6.0 because it will all be about new playable content and class /gear changes,

If they have strong hold stuff planned, I would not expect to see it till 6.2 or 6.3 because 6.1 will be about bug fixes and balancing classes around new abilities and gear changes. So basically April-May next year is when it would be delivered and would be announced at the end of January when they get back from Xmas holidays.

And

2) FFS raise the NPC limit or remove it completely. And don't get me started on companions being holos... As far as 'hook limits' it goes without saying that we need the caps raised or removed. To the "NO dont raise it!" crowd thats a simple matter to appease. Raise the limit (or again remove it) just don't raise the number required for 100% completion. Simple, easy, everybodys happy.

And

3) The devs really need to also work on something to make SH relative again...

Just like the changes made to Fleet on the PTS to make them more relative personal SHs also need to be made more relative for people to have and decorate. As it is NOW they are very much for personal use (of course they are) and decoration but after one gets the two achievements tied to visitors there isn't really incentive nor need outside of RP to visit a persons SH. It would be nice to be able to show off/showcase ones SH better and more often if one were so inclined. Obviously I would. The solution to this? I have none but perhaps something like a lottery system to get a winner placed on the galaxy map along with a weekly mission to go there would be the answer...

I wish you luck my friend. As I’m not sure I will be able to post for much longer because I’ve unsubbed. I hope you get your wish and the game gets what it deserves in the next 6-12 months.

Off topic but:

What the What?

Your posts are one of the reasons I'm still subbed! Who will lead the cause for us lightning sorcerers now? It's not like they listen to me

I forgot to mention in my last reply, that I would still like them to make a "Stronghold-like" "zoo" and "garage". These only need to be reasonably large open spaces with lots of large hooks*, perhaps divided into a few basic rectangular areas. Nothing fancy - but on some neutral planet like Nar Shadaa.

 

The "zoo" would be for animal pets, mounts, and companions. The "garage" would be for mechanical pets, mounts and companions. (With appropriate titles/names for the SH so that they could be Quaker's Zoo and Quaker's Garage - or maybe Quaker's Menagerie if both are combined into one.)

 

At this time, almost my entire Yavin 4 stronghold** is full of pets and mounts and I'm running out of space. And there is almost no room for any non-pet/non-mount decorations.

(I'm not sure how many total pets and mounts I have, but it fills most of Yavin 4, and it's over 300.)

 

*Large hooks can easily be configured as smaller hooks. Perhaps a Centerpiece hook in the middle or in a common central area (for my Guardian Droid deco - not a pet or mount, but it fits in well with the theme).

 

**Qua'kers stronghold. 69%. Public listing.

I had original put all my mechanical pets and mounts in the starship hanger on Tatooine, and the animals in the courtyard outside the hanger, but I soon ran out of space and moved them all to Yavin 4.

Edited August 10, 2019 by JediQuaker