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BW: FIX DPS Operatives! Statistics out of 100 played WZs inside!!


tatatan

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Hello,

i decided to do *personal* statistic on Imperial Agents population density in PVP community. I can clearly tell you, that the myth of "teams of stunlocking operatives" is clearly broken.

 

Server: ToFN

Duration: from 11/3 to 11/14 (past 11 days)

Matches played: 100 (normal WZs)

 

DPS operatives

Lethality = 0 players out of 100 WZ

chance to meet Lethality op in WZ = 0%

density = 0%

 

Concealment = 14 players out of 100 WZ

chance to meet Concealment op in WZ = 14%

density = 1.75%

 

Medics operatives

Medics = 56 players out of 100 WZ

chance to meet Medic ops in WZ = 56%

density = 7%

 

Snipers

Snipers = 55 players out of 100 WZ

chance to meet Sniper in WZ = 55%

density = 6.9%

 

Note: density is counted as percentage out of 800 (100matches x 8 man teams =100%)

 

Conclusion:

Operative medics and Snipers are fine.

DPS Operatives need FIX.

 

Lethality is the least played tree in all game, for numerous reasons:

-horrible TA management

-horrible TA time hold (10sec)

-cumbersome mechanics to setup for main attack

-cumbersome TA gain mechanics (shiv)

-main problem: DOTS!!!! Why? With 'lingering toxins' your dot hold for 30 seconds, meaning 30 sec unCCable enemy => your team really "loves" you when you run around poisoning everyone.

 

Fix (IMHO):

-grant lethality to gain TA from Weakening blast, make the WB on shorter cooldown

-Let TA hold for 20 sec

-make our DoTS last only 8 seconds

This way we change our play, we wont poison everyone 1st, but we gain TA 1st, then we use poisons + Cull.

 

Concealment

Concealment OPs are ridiculous compared to Assassins. Concealment Nerf strategy of BW caused them to be Cumbersome. I didnt play Concealment Ops that much to dare to speak about Fixes, but it was said already in many other threads.

 

BW Fix it and A.S.A.P.

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Ok,

since noone reply I just have to add, i played Lethality almost year, from game start, hoping, we'd get some love. Now i give it up. My leth op, valor 89, R.I.P. I'll join crowd and switch to my Juggernaut tank, who is now valor 62 and yet, much more useful to team play. :(

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I am going to say I think it would be very hard to buff damage operatives with their ccurrent stealth and lockdown type playstyle. They either need to make resolve more effective first/with that, or change operatives to be lest about stun timing and more about burst and restealthing.
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(Fix (IMHO):

-grant lethality to gain TA from Weakening blast, make the WB on shorter cooldown

 

Been playing lethality for about a year. This change is the one that would make the biggest difference. The problem is that we have melee, short range and long range specials so depending upon just the melee special to produce TA is just not that workable. Still, playing lethality is a manner of constantly changing styles depending upon who is in the wz and the type of wz....sometimes i play as a stealthie, other times u would think i was a sniper, and most of the time i'm a mix of both of those things.

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(Fix (IMHO):

-grant lethality to gain TA from Weakening blast, make the WB on shorter cooldown

 

Been playing lethality for about a year. This change is the one that would make the biggest difference. The problem is that we have melee, short range and long range specials so depending upon just the melee special to produce TA is just not that workable. Still, playing lethality is a manner of constantly changing styles depending upon who is in the wz and the type of wz....sometimes i play as a stealthie, other times u would think i was a sniper, and most of the time i'm a mix of both of those things.

 

I thought about giving lethality/DF a try, but I saw the abilities that were stuck in 10m or less mixed with the ranged, while not really giving much utility to be either successfully, IMO; and I bulked at it. Might still just for the hell of it.

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I agree there dmg is a bit low. In the past few weeks i have seen some people playing dps op/scoundrels and from what I have seen although they arent topping the charts as far as dps, they can however take people completely out of the game. Never see them coming and they just stun lock you to death. They most def require i higher skill level to play than any other class. But, in the right hands these guys can totally change a WZ. I was averaging 350-425k heals, then i ran into this guy playing an operative 3 straight games. Didn't get more than 150k heals off in any game he straight up took me completely out of ever game aswell as the other healers. Like i said i do agree there dmg is p*ss poor and wouldnt ever take one into a raid with me, but a WZ... if they are as skilled and sneaky as this *****hole was then i wouldnt think twice about it.
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I agree there dmg is a bit low. In the past few weeks i have seen some people playing dps op/scoundrels and from what I have seen although they arent topping the charts as far as dps, they can however take people completely out of the game. Never see them coming and they just stun lock you to death. They most def require i higher skill level to play than any other class. But, in the right hands these guys can totally change a WZ. I was averaging 350-425k heals, then i ran into this guy playing an operative 3 straight games. Didn't get more than 150k heals off in any game he straight up took me completely out of ever game aswell as the other healers. Like i said i do agree there dmg is p*ss poor and wouldnt ever take one into a raid with me, but a WZ... if they are as skilled and sneaky as this *****hole was then i wouldnt think twice about it.

 

That is what their role really is. To basically take one (or two) specific player(s) out of the equation. These players are usually always the healers and occasionally a high-powered dps that could do massive damage if left alone. That's another example of how the charts don't tell the whole story. The damage numbers a scrapper may have done will usually be significantly lower than his peers, however he made a major contribution by shutting down the enemy team's healer.

Edited by Solarenergy
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That is what their role really is. To basically take one (or two) specific player(s) out of the equation. These players are usually always the healers and occasionally a high-powered dps that could do massive damage if left alone. That's another example of how the charts don't tell the whole story. The damage numbers a scrapper may have done will usually be significantly lower than his peers, however he made a major contribution by shutting down the enemy team's healer.

As for concealments, i agree, question is, isn't the assassin better at this? I see in WZs ridiculously high numbers of them, while Concealment ops? 14ppl out of 800 ... And Lethality ... well noone play them (with a few exceptions) because of bad design.

Thing is, if you play Lethality, you're just hurting your team, because of looong, looong duration of dots (preventing any CC), which is (as the game is now) major problem (besides other purely technical problems - bad design)

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As for concealments, i agree, question is, isn't the assassin better at this? I see in WZs ridiculously high numbers of them, while Concealment ops? 14ppl out of 800 ... And Lethality ... well noone play them (with a few exceptions) because of bad design.

Thing is, if you play Lethality, you're just hurting your team, because of looong, looong duration of dots (preventing any CC), which is (as the game is now) major problem (besides other purely technical problems - bad design)

 

You could say assassins are better at it and a 1 off for them is also a 1 off from your team as you are busy and could have been another healer.

 

That's what sucks. Not that DPS operative is not without it's uses, but there is someone out there that could do it better, and the healing tree is on a much higher level in value.

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I am going to say I think it would be very hard to buff damage operatives with their ccurrent stealth and lockdown type playstyle. They either need to make resolve more effective first/with that, or change operatives to be lest about stun timing and more about burst and restealthing.

 

I would prefer this playstyle change. I would rather hit harder with less cc than have all the cc in the world. that wouldn't work well in this game, however, where cc is so important. it's actually the concealment op's 2nd best utility: lock down the opponent while you and your teammate kill him. but yeah, give me burst + restealth > burst + stun. The deception assassin is like this. his combat stealth is a way to regen resources faster. that would be cool...at least for my scrapper, who has comparatively weaker defenses and less escapability than my deceptsin.

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Hello,

i decided to do *personal* statistic on Imperial Agents population density in PVP community. I can clearly tell you, that the myth of "teams of stunlocking operatives" is clearly broken.

 

Server: ToFN

Duration: from 11/3 to 11/14 (past 11 days)

Matches played: 100 (normal WZs)

 

DPS operatives

Lethality = 0 players out of 100 WZ

chance to meet Lethality op in WZ = 0%

density = 0%

 

Lies...

Nearly in at least once every 5-6 games i stumble upon this invisible annoyances that you call DPS operatives..

Yeah - ToFN.

 

But the hard truth about operatives is that that not a DPS tree is weak, but Heal tree is too OP...

Everyone knows that healer Operatives are immortal beasts.

Tune down the Opness of Healtree and you will find more DPS operatives in WZ

Edited by Missandei
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I just started seriously raising my Operative, going up the Medicine tree. I will admit, though, if they change Lethality along the lines mentioned above, I will definitely give that tree a try. It just seems flexible combining melee and ranged with lots of dots.
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Lies...

Nearly in at least once every 5-6 games i stumble upon this invisible annoyances that you call DPS operatives..

Yeah - ToFN.

 

But the hard truth about operatives is that that not a DPS tree is weak, but Heal tree is too OP...

Everyone knows that healer Operatives are immortal beasts.

Tune down the Opness of Healtree and you will find more DPS operatives in WZ

 

This.

 

Everyone and their dog knows mercs are at the bottom of the wz usefulness list but you still find every type being played.

 

Bodyguard is ok but its not amazingly more useful than Pyro and Pyro is only a bit better than Arsenal. Ultimately they all have the same crap 2 tools to mess with other players which is the core issue with them.

 

Operatives have so many CCs and escapes its disgustingly useful for staying alive as a healer in a WZ or just controlling the enemy team.

Edited by Gyronamics
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Lies...

Nearly in at least once every 5-6 games i stumble upon this invisible annoyances that you call DPS operatives..

Yeah - ToFN.

 

But the hard truth about operatives is that that not a DPS tree is weak, but Heal tree is too OP...

Everyone knows that healer Operatives are immortal beasts.

Tune down the Opness of Healtree and you will find more DPS operatives in WZ

 

Hard words you use.

1. Lethality is one tree of Operatives and yes in 100 WZ i met noone. Don't mistake them with Concealment operatives.

2. You probably dont know about what you talk i play Lethality from game start to recent date. They have very easily distinguished play style and attacks. Hard to replace them with Concealments.

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This.

 

Everyone and their dog knows mercs are at the bottom of the wz usefulness list but you still find every type being played.

 

Bodyguard is ok but its not amazingly more useful than Pyro and Pyro is only a bit better than Arsenal. Ultimately they all have the same crap 2 tools to mess with other players which is the core issue with them.

 

Operatives have so many CCs and escapes its disgustingly useful for staying alive as a healer in a WZ or just controlling the enemy team.

Did i say anything about mercenaries in this thread? I see you know a lot about Operatives and OP they are ...care to share more?

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I've given up hope of them ever really addressing the DPS issues of Scoundrels. The update they gave us with Sneak was rather poorly thought out, and there was no dev interaction after the initial presentation. Even getting Sneak did nothing to really improve DPS, which was already at the low end of the curve.

 

 

As for CC. We really don't have that much more than other classes. We certainly don't have more than Shadows. That doesn't seem to matter though.

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I like how people post that under rare and extreme circumstances, an OP dps tops the dps charts. Terrible commandos can do that too.

 

Im in mostly champion (lol) gear. I got into a game with a bunch of wh guys against of scrub 50s. I got spam healed, never died. I topped damage.

Obviously we need to nerf Ops.

 

Im not saying conceal dps is terrible (well, sustained isn't great...), but our overall utility is just so meh. Sure, we can lock one target pretty well. But even if that's a healer, why not bring another lolsmash instead? One smash can do our opener on 5 people at once. And they don't need to wait 9 and than 1:30 to do it twice more. We can mez a number of people at once. Thank goodness there is no AoE or dots out.

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How about you read the post you're attacking. Then read what it was quoting and replying to.

 

I did not attack anyone - firstly you, agreed with the post from missandei, which is on border of ridiculousness, then you say (cite) "Operatives have so many CCs and escapes ..." which is about same funny.

Let me tell you, as Lethality, I have 2 CC (4sec stun 4m debilitate - knife attack) and 10m 8sec stun flashbang grenade, is this 'so many CC'?? Escapes, - i have 'hide' ability on 3min cooldown, easily broken by an AoE. Ridiculous

Concealment has same stuns, only have better 'hide' cooldown and one more hiding ability. Otherwise nothing. I dunno where people still gather info about Operatives?? On QQ posts on forums? Btw where/when did you see QQ post about stealthy Operatives??

BW need to address this.

Lethality is R.I.P. and Concealment Ops is close to it.

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Let me tell you, as Lethality, I have 2 CC (4sec stun 4m debilitate - knife attack) and 10m 8sec stun flashbang grenade, is this 'so many CC'?? Escapes, - i have 'hide' ability on 3min cooldown, easily broken by an AoE.

 

Sleep dart fallen off your quickbar?

 

Thats 1 cc that can screw with anyone not too close to their team.

 

One that can cripple a group at a distance while your team takes on one at a time or gets on with something else. And a straightforward stun.

 

Being stealthed at the start allows use of Sleep Dart and you've already escaped while still hindering an enemy.

 

The in-combat stealth is the other escape.

 

So yeah, that is a fair bit, you would like to say it's not?

 

So what did I say:

 

Operatives have so many CCs and escapes its disgustingly useful for staying alive as a healer in a WZ or just controlling the enemy team.

 

When I referred to mercs:

 

Everyone and their dog knows mercs are at the bottom of the wz usefulness list but you still find every type being played.

 

Bodyguard is ok but its not amazingly more useful than Pyro and Pyro is only a bit better than Arsenal. Ultimately they all have the same crap 2 tools to mess with other players which is the core issue with them.

 

I was not referring to the class but the class distribution which is much flatter because there IS no shining light in that tunnel.

 

You made a thread complaining about the stacking of operatives in certain branches, they are stacked in the healing branch because, yes the healing branch plus all the CC and escapes is entirely the best healing class in the game for pvp.

 

 

If you understood that then you'll note I agree that not enough operatives play DPS.

 

But I see it the other way round.

 

I don't think the DPS trees are crap, I think the healing tree is just so much more powerful in the WZ.

Edited by Gyronamics
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