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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?


Dovahbrah

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to be honest, if you are only pulling 370k damage in a drawn out civil war, youre either guarding or youre bad.

 

i was pulling 500-700k damage frequently on my 40s commando, without Demo Round or Tech Override.

 

on PTS i was doing even more damage, including 1 game where i broke 1mil (granted it was in Assault spec before the nerf, but the damage output was similar).

 

our survivability is up. a lot. our mobility is up. a lot. our group utiltiy is up (off-healing is way easier now).

i think people are really underestimating the change to our armor debuff. before this, it was almost impossible to get the full armor break on a target b/c they notice us after the first tracer missile and then interrupted the proceeding one. now they dont get that option; we only need 1. its much harder for enemies to break up our rotation reliably.

 

Comparing under cap WZ (lvl 40) to a 55 match is irrelevant. You are not facing players that are at cap with all their high-end abilities. Also, at lvl 40 with your not-cap level gear, you are getting waaaaay more bolstered stats and power than we are at 55. My damage is on par and most often better than other commandos in the same match because I am often a bit better at my rotations, class abilities, and positioning. To back up that claim, I'll refer you back to the pic I linked above where there was another commando there (he did less than a third of my damage). On the scoreboard, the only troopers (you know how the icons appear) that have higher dps, belong to the vanguards. That was true before 2.0 by a wide margin and although the gap is a bit lower in total, still true since 2.0.

 

My experience is very similar to this most of the time:

 

youre talking as if you never get focused in your warzones, which means you are going against people who tunnel or you arent well known on your server.

 

I get two three people up the butt anytime I try to get close to the objective (Node, door, BC) So I spend alot of time off healing myself and running around corners and not pumping out dps[...]

 

For example, I had been in a Voidstar, on offense to start, where my team surged to one side. I hung a bit further back as our team's melee was at the front going close to the door defenders... the other team's melee cut straight through our lines to me waaaay in the back (more than halfway to our spawn where there are no objects to create LOS. I had 4 of them on me in an instant (1 jugg, 2 mara, 1 sin). That round, I couldn't get anywhere near the columns much less within the 30m range to hit those close to the door. I had wished I had taken a screenie because I felt so *special* with all that attention. lol.

Edited by BoushhDC
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Having spent quite a bit of time in PvP with my Merc over the weekend, in what I can only describe as a lot of high end epic matches against equal sides, I have been quite impressed with the damage on Arsenal spec since 2.0. This is pre 55 though, and I am sure that the 838k damage I did in one Voidster is not likely to happen at lvl 55 PvP, unless someone else can state otherwise?. Many of the other WZS damage were around the 600k mark, with what seems to be an average damage around 400-450k, which is a major improvement on before.

 

I am still trying to find out though at lvl 55 PvP whether the Merc is still competitive in 55 PvP?. For sure I am pumping out the highest damage I have ever done on my Merc, but it is pre55, and slightly concerned that once I hit 55 it goes back to being a bit lack luster where damage just suddenly drops off to nowhere?.

 

Another thing I have noticed, is that the Merc does seem to survive longer, that has to be a bonus. But that could be because if you are given a little bit of space, not a lot else in all honesty is going to take you down quicker than a Merc is at present, that includes smash and grab Mara's, they will not like to hear that, but it is true and Mara's really are squishy when you just tracer missile them to the ground, another thing I have noticed,hehe. Even with a load of people on you, if you have good healers, you can almost ignore those people on you and continue trying to kill the person you have targeted, nothing better than simply ignoring 4+ odd people on you in order to dispatch the person you have targeted first, then deal with those others on you when it pleases you :p. Again this was not like this before, and yes it obviously helps if you have good healers which allows you to almost arrogantly ignore anyone on you, in order to kill the one targeted. Attitude of, I am going to continue to kill the original target, then your next, is a nice feeling,hehe.

 

I think certainly pre55 they have sorted the Merc out. I do not know about the Commando, all I know is, they die quickly them Commando's, and they do not concern me in a 1v1 anymore like they use to + they are the ones doing the running away now :). But the Commando is the same in respect to the Merc, so I guess if they to have good healers and a bit of space, and know what they are doing :p, like some we know, I have a feeling they are not complaining about any changes in 2.0, yet anyway.

 

Little tweaks with spec have really helped my PvP out, little basic things alongside the extra stuff in the 2.0 patch, has allowed the high damages to be regular and to actually be an asset to a team, rather than an albatross.

 

On a lighter note, you know when you are crushing everything, when /say comes up at the end of a WZ from your arch enemies who are genuinely great players with some unsavory comments. Made my day that did, I can assure you,hehe :p.

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Still no defensive ability worth mentioning...

Still no way to get casts off properly...

Healer class still doesn't compare to scoundrel or sage....

 

I agree with point 2 and point 3.

 

1st point is somewhat incorrect for arsenal mercs. As arsenal, your chafe flare can absorb the next incoming yellow dmg direct ability such as smash, heatseaker missile, shock, ect.... You also have 6 second cooldown on kolto missile, 30 seconds on hydraulic, 1 minute on power surge, some random absorb proc when taking dmg, energy shield, knockback, rocketpunch root, concussion missile. Now saying we have all these things doesn't mean that I completely disagree with you, because I know other classes can do it better, but we aren't all supposed to be the same class.

 

Overall, I agree that mercs still need more fine tunning for pvp.

Edited by DkSharktooth
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The difference between 1.7 commando DPS and 2.0 commando DPS is crazy. Several little changes that add up to a big difference.

 

We aren't where we were before 2.0.

 

 

That being said we haven't gotten enough better. I'd say we've closed the gap, but overall we're still bottom of the pile. We aren't the free kills we once were (or rather there's more of us that aren't free kills than there was before). That's a pretty nice change overall.

 

Getting better is what I'm saying. Not quite there yet.

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The difference between 1.7 commando DPS and 2.0 commando DPS is crazy. Several little changes that add up to a big difference.

 

We aren't where we were before 2.0.

 

 

That being said we haven't gotten enough better. I'd say we've closed the gap, but overall we're still bottom of the pile. We aren't the free kills we once were (or rather there's more of us that aren't free kills than there was before). That's a pretty nice change overall.

 

Getting better is what I'm saying. Not quite there yet.

 

 

arent free kills??

 

With all Cooldowns 1 of the strongest if not the strongest 1on1 class in the game.

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I have to say I'm really enjoying my merc at the moment,

 

yes I still have to lurk round corners and stay off the front line but as for defense I have found I can actually win alot of 1v1 battles now this is due to the extras we revived in 2.0

 

For example before if a melee decided to single me out before 2.0 I was pretty much doomed but now I can hit power surge and either get a FM off followed by a TM & HSM while on the run, or I can fire off to heals that would normally need to be channeled,

 

This in a combination of jet boost , rocket punch , shield & chaff flares and ofc my beloved eletro net and hydraulic overrides means can keep enough distance from them while still laying down fire.

 

In short knock them back snare then light them up - stun them light them up again - rocket punch electro net move back light them up again, rinse and repeat all the time leading them back to friendly's just as insurance.

 

For this tactic I have found pinning fire very useful along with the above mentioned power surge combos.

Edited by nkitch
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Yeah they are definitely better than before, but still a long ways from where they should be. defensive and free cast is all we need to be balanced. We die way too fast for heavy armor and all other classes have defensive abilities far better than our shield.
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arent free kills??

 

With all Cooldowns 1 of the strongest if not the strongest 1on1 class in the game.

 

That's a pretty bold claim. I think people just don't expect us. I decimated an assassin in 1v1 tonight but he was pretty awful. We'll definitely make people who try to single us out like they used to pay cash though.

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I'm sorry, but I just don't see the problem with commando in PVP. Before 2.0, I decided to playa commando for a bit, to see if it was really all that bad, and In a mix of recruit and war hero gear, I was pretty consistently doing top or near top damage in war zones. I have a problem seeing as to why people see them as bad in 2.0, when all they got were buff after buff. You have to free cast abilities now, hold the line, only need 1 grav round to buff demo round, it goes on and on.

 

I think the core issue of the class is people don't understand it. It might just be on Jedi covenant, but I see a ton of mandos/Mercs running up towards the enemy so they can stockstrike or knock them back, instead of staying at range. I also see a lot of them run around and just spam explosive round. It's a ranged class, stay at ranged, and between your knockback, stockstrike root, hold the line, and electronet you shouldn't have that many problems when they get close to you.

 

I think another thing that people sometimes don't get is that if you are getting focused, you are going to die, it doesn't really matter what you have class wise.

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I'm sorry, but I just don't see the problem with commando in PVP. Before 2.0, I decided to playa commando for a bit, to see if it was really all that bad, and In a mix of recruit and war hero gear, I was pretty consistently doing top or near top damage in war zones. I have a problem seeing as to why people see them as bad in 2.0, when all they got were buff after buff. You have to free cast abilities now, hold the line, only need 1 grav round to buff demo round, it goes on and on.

 

I think the core issue of the class is people don't understand it. It might just be on Jedi covenant, but I see a ton of mandos/Mercs running up towards the enemy so they can stockstrike or knock them back, instead of staying at range. I also see a lot of them run around and just spam explosive round. It's a ranged class, stay at ranged, and between your knockback, stockstrike root, hold the line, and electronet you shouldn't have that many problems when they get close to you.

 

 

I think another thing that people sometimes don't get is that if you are getting focused, you are going to die, it doesn't really matter what you have class wise.

 

Coming from a trollslinger, or was it guntroller? Commandos also cannot match the dps of a sniper. Only if it's the best commando and a lousy sniper. Commando can also be shutdown, sniper is immune to interrupts and knockbacks with hunker down.

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Right now:

 

Gunnery Commando = Marksman Sniper in terms of dmg output

 

If free-casting. Commandos rarely get to free-cast versus awake players, unfortunately.

 

That said, I am quite happy with where Arsenal/Gunnery is right now. We can not do as much overall damage as Rage/Focus but our single-target burst is incredible (Heatseekers critting for 8k to 10k), if not one of the best in the game (and it can be done from 30 meters and with Power Surge the entire rotation can be mobile and uninterruptible). Electro Net is usually a guaranteed healer kill and wins games when on the attack so that the healers don't vanish or use their Force barrier when the rest of their team has wiped.

 

Even as full dps in some games I end up with 100k-200k healing and I am more than glad that survivability and self/off-healing is so much better now. Lots of opponents still think the class is a free kill and waste a lot of time chasing us.

 

The set bonus I use is 2-piece PvP combat medic and 2-piece PvE eliminator, and I think the main saving grace is having 10 seconds of Hydraulic Overrides every 25 seconds (reduced by 5 with the combat medic set bonus). The 2-piece eliminator allows huge on-demand burst in the event that you are allowed to free-cast.

 

Right now I feel Pyro is lacking the burst that Arsenal has. I'd personally say their mobility is disadvantaged because they only get 6 seconds of Hydraulic Overrides every 30 seconds versus 10 seconds every 25 seconds because they need the 4-piece Eliminator set for Rail Shot to be any good.

Edited by Jenzali
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Coming from a trollslinger, or was it guntroller? Commandos also cannot match the dps of a sniper. Only if it's the best commando and a lousy sniper. Commando can also be shutdown, sniper is immune to interrupts and knockbacks with hunker down.

 

I don't even play a gunslinger......

 

Commandos damage is fine, whether or not sniper is over the top on dps is another matter.

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The only thing I've had problems with Gunnery Commando is if I can't get my stuff to crit. But if I get a crit rotation on someone, whoever I just hit is 100% dead in 4-6 seconds.

 

2-4K Grav Round x 2, 4-5K Sticky Grenade, 8-10K Demo Round, 4-6K High Impact Bolt = Dead. It's super rare for that to happen due to only have 25% crit chance but it's still highly effective if it doesn't crit. I absolutely love playing Commando now. I hadn't touched him in a year.

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I just rolled a Merc yesterday, been powering through it to 21 today. Got to say I'm loving it. I'm getting highest damage in PvP like 99% of matches, even had a 758k Voidstar earlier at level 19 :L

 

The main reason behind me playing it is because Heatseaker missiles just looks so damn fun to be shooting around, oh and it's last 50+ I need ^_^

 

I hadn't touched him in a year.

 

:eek:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:cool:

Edited by Jayshames
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I just rolled a Merc yesterday, been powering through it to 21 today. Got to say I'm loving it. I'm getting highest damage in PvP like 99% of matches, even had a 758k Voidstar earlier at level 19 :L

 

The main reason behind me playing it is because Heatseaker missiles just looks so damn fun to be shooting around, oh and it's last 50+ I need ^_^

 

 

 

:eek:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:cool:

 

He only lasted seconds.

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I don't even play a gunslinger......

 

Commandos damage is fine, whether or not sniper is over the top on dps is another matter.

 

Not against decent players it's not. Are you 55 yet? I tried Gunnery this weekend in PvP and it sucks. 1v1 I was able to be shut down, like usual and in groups, I'd get off the occasional Grav Round shot, but EVERYTHING is too easy to interrupt - stuns, mez's, pushes, nades, pulls, mines...they ALL stop casting. In PvE, Commando is fine, but not even freaking close in PvP.

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Not against decent players it's not. Are you 55 yet? I tried Gunnery this weekend in PvP and it sucks. 1v1 I was able to be shut down, like usual and in groups, I'd get off the occasional Grav Round shot, but EVERYTHING is too easy to interrupt - stuns, mez's, pushes, nades, pulls, mines...they ALL stop casting. In PvE, Commando is fine, but not even freaking close in PvP.

 

That's when you use your ability that gives you 2 free insta-casts and go from there. Or have whoever you have fanning you get focused by your team.

Edited by AMKSED
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