btw i forgot place is not here but also the crew skills they are complete nearly useless for earn money and you dont put any effort to level them most of good items is bop and peoples earn money just beacuse most of peoples dont know game very much after lvl 50 you dont need to buy any of 49 - 50 purples simply goto pvp 1 day got you centrious pvp and you ready for any hm flashpoint your 500 600k credit is in your poket also i tanked full ev with centrious and half of karagga's place but nvm is our subject is not that

I never said the game was ready or working well. My original post was condemning the hypocricy of the 'anti-raiders' on this forum who publicly go for a 'live and let live' approach while at the same time spitting the kind of venom I'd expect if we were shooting each other.

 

sorry my english is not very good

 

i see you arguing with poster of that thread and he is try to get attention for next generation updates and give some ideas and when you arguing with him i thinked your dont accept that the game have many issues

 

thats why i started the whole thing sorry

So what is is that hardcore raiders want?

 

Higher Challenge or Top Loot?

 

Bit of both. The highest difficulty should reward slightly better gear. This is because there should be some benefit to doing the higher tier difficulty stuff if its a bit of a grind rather than basically being able to get everything you need for progression on the easiest difficulty several times faster.

 

The gap should be small, simply because:

 

a) Provides an unbalancing effect on other elements of gameplay that will need to be counterbalanced in their arena (eg pvp gear for a start).

 

b) If you make the gap too large it has too much of an effect on content where 'outgearing' becomes a huge weight to consider. This is acceptable when you have single difficulty content (more skilled playesr clear it in lesser gear, les skilled players will eventually accumulate the gear on the earlier bosses to allow them to eventually surmount those previously unachieveable challenges).

 

However when you have multiple difficulties that large gap is harder to justify as it can devalue the achievements of people by making it less skill based (which arguably multiple difficulties should allow the game to be more tightly tuned around skill based as people who cant do the content should just be content at their skill level).

 

Plus there should be some scope to let people 'step up' difficulties if they so choose, but keeping the gear gap small stops it being silly ala wow. If its small then if do T1 nightmare, the gear from T2 hard should be the equal to T1 nightmare so that people who did T1 nightmare can go straight to T2 nightmare. Likewise if people wanted to move from doing T1 hard to the nightmare they dont have to grind mutliple difficulties across multiple different tiers.

sorry my english is not very good

 

i see you arguing with poster of that thread and he is try to get attention for next generation updates and give some ideas and when you arguing with him i thinked your dont accept that the game have many issues

 

thats why i started the whole thing sorry

 

It happens ^^

So what is is that hardcore raiders want?

 

Higher Challenge or Top Loot?

 

"Hardcore Raiding" shouldn't reward anything more than a feeling of accomplishment from getting the content itself done. Nothing Extra. There should not be any "Risk vs Reward" factor. You either do the raids on hard mode because you like to or you don't.

 

If your argument is that there is no incentive to do so, than the want for challenge in raiding is not enough to outweigh the lust for loot and exclusivity.

 

Vanity items are a decent bridge here. Nothing so much stat-wise, but something that gives a title or completing it would be more in line with a reasonable system.

 

Face it... EQ is a model that will never get as many subscribers as one that is way more accessible. If you want "Epic Raidz" go back to EQ and wait for days to camp a spawn you need 72 people to ace. Those kind of "hardcore" raids perpetuate the stereotype that MMO's are for clammy, basement dwelling trolls.

 

The only way to break that would be to change the model so drastically that anyone can be a part of it, not just those with a lot of time on their hands, which is where MMO Design is going.

 

It's no longer about how to challenge a player, it's about how to retain players. You don't do that by putting massive roadblocks in the way of your basest of players who will remain loyal even if you poke them in the eyes repeatedly. Everyone wants to be the hero and try to be the best. Open accessibility is the way to create that illusion.

 

 

Another take: Ever since video games became more "art" than "game" the artist wants the participant (player) to experience it as a whole, because if they do not, the art's effect is lost. Just food for thought.

 

Apologies for the abrasive nature of some of this, but the hardcore model is a dinosaur. You only need to look as far as the number of people who play Farmville to see that. Woe to us as gamers when the day comes that Farmville is the only alternative, but it is definitely where it is going.

 

 

yeah your right and your not

 

im a hard core player for a moment but im not a hard core raider but i like raids and when my guild is doing raid im join with them but is boring wich i mentionet before and want to get attention to it more challeng is not meaning just buff up hp and demage i prefere if they where add one more phase on hard mode to every boss and two more phase on night mare bosses with that it will be more harder and more fun for player who can sped more time in game its an option thos who dont have time go to normal thos who have time go to other i personally dont care about loot but peoples kill bosses with loot so i also need it

+1 so many people will be lost if 1.2 does not deliver an increase in difficulty in operations.

So what is is that hardcore raiders want?

 

Higher Challenge or Top Loot?

 

"Hardcore Raiding" shouldn't reward anything more than a feeling of accomplishment from getting the content itself done. Nothing Extra. There should not be any "Risk vs Reward" factor. You either do the raids on hard mode because you like to or you don't.

 

If your argument is that there is no incentive to do so, than the want for challenge in raiding is not enough to outweigh the lust for loot and exclusivity.

 

Vanity items are a decent bridge here. Nothing so much stat-wise, but something that gives a title or completing it would be more in line with a reasonable system.

 

Primarily the higher challenge although I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a bit of both. The loot though is essentially just some sort of indicator that says to the game's community that this person has done this particular piece of content. I do agree that vanity items could serve just as well to provide that indicator and I would be totally okay with this.

 

Face it... EQ is a model that will never get as many subscribers as one that is way more accessible. If you want "Epic Raidz" go back to EQ and wait for days to camp a spawn you need 72 people to ace. Those kind of "hardcore" raids perpetuate the stereotype that MMO's are for clammy, basement dwelling trolls.

 

The only way to break that would be to change the model so drastically that anyone can be a part of it, not just those with a lot of time on their hands, which is where MMO Design is going.

 

It's no longer about how to challenge a player, it's about how to retain players. You don't do that by putting massive roadblocks in the way of your basest of players who will remain loyal even if you poke them in the eyes repeatedly. Everyone wants to be the hero and try to be the best. Open accessibility is the way to create that illusion.

 

I don't have a problem with that kind of game at all. It just isn't one that I want to play and it isn't how SW:TOR has been marketed. The very fact that the game design contains 3 levels of difficulty directly implies that there is meant to be differing grades of raid difficulty in SW:TOR. The naming of these difficulty levels in particular further implies that the game's designers want their raid content to appeal to both the casual raider and the hardcore raider. At the moment it simply does not succeed with the latter.

 

Apologies for the abrasive nature of some of this, but the hardcore model is a dinosaur. You only need to look as far as the number of people who play Farmville to see that. Woe to us as gamers when the day comes that Farmville is the only alternative, but it is definitely where it is going.

 

I'm not offended - it's your opinion and you're certainly right that the hardcore raiding audience is much more niche than it used to be. I do have to say that your Farmville analogy is pretty poor though and does very little to reinforce your point. Let's compare it with a like analogy - NFL draws in a much larger audience than the NHL so hockey fans should just resign themselves to the fact that their sport of interest is a thing of the past. I don't agree with this sentiment at all. Just because one product caters to a larger audience does not mean that all smaller audiences are rendered obsolete. There is still a profit to be made in a game that caters to hardcore raiders even if a more casual game has broader appeal. The fact that SW:TOR has the framework with its 3 difficulty modes to cater to both audiences means that, with proper implementation, there is no reason that it cannot try satisfy both sets of customers.

Edited February 19, 2012 by jingadingdangdo

I really appreciate your candor in all this. As far as the analogy, well, thanks for the debate tip!

 

I see what you are saying, but I think (anecdotal at best), that the numbers are a lot more skewed than NFL vs NHL, to the point where it is more like NFL vs Pro Curling.

 

It doesn't make the audience's sport obsolete, it just requires them to go to more niche markets to find what they want, where that is popular.

 

Raids (Ops, whatever) have become increasingly hard to deal with. Logistically speaking, having to work around everyone's schedule with a mature and organized raid group is a nightmare mode in and of itself.

 

On the other hand, I've always been a control junkie when it comes to raiding as well. If I couldn't control it with my tanking or the 2 - 3 others I trust implicitly, it would generally drive me crazy, because my success would hinge on someone else's performance. Maybe just the balance in all of that finally got to me!

 

In any case, you have some decent points, and a well thought out argument, even if we disagree.

So what is is that hardcore raiders want?

 

Higher Challenge or Top Loot?

 

"Hardcore Raiding" shouldn't reward anything more than a feeling of accomplishment from getting the content itself done. Nothing Extra. There should not be any "Risk vs Reward" factor. You either do the raids on hard mode because you like to or you don't.

 

If your argument is that there is no incentive to do so, than the want for challenge in raiding is not enough to outweigh the lust for loot and exclusivity.

 

Vanity items are a decent bridge here. Nothing so much stat-wise, but something that gives a title or completing it would be more in line with a reasonable system.

 

Face it... EQ is a model that will never get as many subscribers as one that is way more accessible. If you want "Epic Raidz" go back to EQ and wait for days to camp a spawn you need 72 people to ace. Those kind of "hardcore" raids perpetuate the stereotype that MMO's are for clammy, basement dwelling trolls.

 

The only way to break that would be to change the model so drastically that anyone can be a part of it, not just those with a lot of time on their hands, which is where MMO Design is going.

 

It's no longer about how to challenge a player, it's about how to retain players. You don't do that by putting massive roadblocks in the way of your basest of players who will remain loyal even if you poke them in the eyes repeatedly. Everyone wants to be the hero and try to be the best. Open accessibility is the way to create that illusion.

 

 

Another take: Ever since video games became more "art" than "game" the artist wants the participant (player) to experience it as a whole, because if they do not, the art's effect is lost. Just food for thought.

 

Apologies for the abrasive nature of some of this, but the hardcore model is a dinosaur. You only need to look as far as the number of people who play Farmville to see that. Woe to us as gamers when the day comes that Farmville is the only alternative, but it is definitely where it is going.

 

No offense but should everyone just get a trophy? Should this game just give people something because they put in the effort even if they don't succeed? Most hardcore gamers aren't sitting here saying that normal mode shouldn't give gear because it's "ez mode". What right do you have to say that the hardest difficulty shouldn't be 1. Much Harder and 2. provide a much more substantial reward. So what if Nightmare is only completed by 5% of the population at 50. THAT'S THE POINT. It's difficult so people keep coming back to it. There's your retention of subs.

 

These "hardcore gamers" make up a substantial portion of the game population too. And on top of that most of these hardcore gamers are the ones who keep the economy alive as well. This isn't a 1% argument. This content needs to cater to those who care to use it. Normal mode caters to those who want to see the content, HM should cater to casual raiding guilds who want a challenge, NM should cater to those who have the time and skill to attempt them. The number of people who fall into the NM category is much much greater than 1% of the player population that cares to raid. If you don't care to raid you don't have a say, this simple fact boosts this "hardcore population percentage" substantially.

 

I'm tired of people using the "you should just do it for the challenge" argument. No, that's total BS. In that case Normal mode shouldn't drop any gear, because they just want to see the content right? NM and HM should be harder, NM and HM should drop better gear. This isn't about "epic raidz" like you said, this is about playing a fun game with an actual reward system that sets players apart from each other and keeps them coming back. If I put in 12+ hours a week raiding NM with a guild and someone spends 4 hours a week raiding Normal I should have noticeably better gear than them not just "vanity items". Not everyone wants the shiny speeder or the stupid pet. I want to have more to show for doing the hardest content than some crappy vanity item. I'm not asking for gear that's substantially better, I'm asking for the best gear available to only drop in NM, not in Normal or HM.

 

I personally hope they keep up with this pathetically simple content, so when the raiders leave this game they can see just how important it is to keep these "basement dwelling elitists" these "hardcore raiders" around. I'm not being elitist, I'm being rational. I'm not demanding that gear be taken away from casuals, I'm not calling casuals bad, I'm not demanding normal mode be harder than it is. I'm asking for Hardmode and Nightmare content to be much more challenging. I'm asking for adequate compensation for my time and effort. More time and effort should equal greater reward, happens in real life why not here too. What's the point of challenging content when you get nothing useful from it?

 

It's about that carrot on a string, the best way to retain subs is to keep us chasing that carrot. Creating difficult content at end game with reward about equal to our risk keeps raiders, both hardcore and casual, chasing that carrot. Right now people, again both casual and hardcore, are catching and eating the carrot, that's not a good game design. Single player games are built this way, there is a definitive beginning and a definitive end. Multiplyer games, MMOs specifically, shouldn't have an end. When the best players reach the end a new end should always be within view. Only bad MMOs, destined to fail, have people reaching the end without a new end on the horizon. Right now SWTOR is a bad MMO at endgame, the carrot has been eaten and thrown on a compost heap for a decent portion of the population.

 

Endgame is what keeps the MMO alive, you can make the leveling experience as eventful as possible, but eventually everyone reaches 50. If the keeps this up it will turn into eventually everyone catches the carrot, eventually everyone leaves. I want this game to work. I want this game to be fun. I want to chase the carrot. I do not want to catch the carrot.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Baconmonster

What right do you have to say that the hardest difficulty shouldn't be 1. Much Harder and 2. provide a much more substantial reward. So what if Nightmare is only completed by 5% of the population at 50. THAT'S THE POINT.

 

 

You don't want the challenge for challenge's sake, you want exclusivity, where you can lord your items over someone who may not have the same time available, but is just as devoted to the game and their guild.

 

Having "something to show for it" could be anything from a cool speeder to a pet to a title.

 

You wanting a more substantial (read: stat increase) reward shows that you want to be more powerful than the next guy, instead of showcasing your skills with the gear that is available; that you were able to pull it off, while beginning on equal footing to someone else.

 

That sir, makes you reek of a bully with special snowflake syndrome.

While I would love for their to be a wider gap in difficulty and gear for Normal 50/cap instances and HMs, and between Flashpoints in Operations. I think it's too late to change it for the current HMs + Ops without angrying more people than pleasing... Though I hope (expect, really) that future additions (Lost Island being the exception I'll let slide) will have that increase in challenge for thier Hard/Nightmare versions that the OP wants.

 

Just those though, leave the normal FPs and yes, even normal Ops where they are... cause while I was kinda disapointed that there was little reason to almost any normal 50 after 20 mins of GTN browsing, I completly understand how some people are happy enough to say they've done said content, and not want to do hardcore raiding/gear grind to be able to do so.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Foefaller

Regarding the Potential Downgrade of 16 Man Operation Difficulty

 

The recent Q&A discussion saw it mentioned that the design intent was for 16 man content to be slightly easier than 8 man content to compensate for the logistics of having to organize a larger number of people. There has been a great outcry over this and for good reason. There are any number of subscribers who want to test themselves vs the most difficult content available to them and if this shifts toward 8 man content instead of 16 man content this will either see guilds running multiple 8 man groups or else fragmenting into several smaller guilds. I genuinely feel that either of these outcomes would be a sad loss for the SW:TOR community as the end result would likely be a game population of small fragmented groups which have very little interaction with each other. This to me goes against the very spirit of what an MMO is all about - it is a slippery slope which diminishes the multi-player element of SW:TOR. Without this multi-player element SW:TOR becomes little more than a single player RPG with very little replay value. I strongly urge the game's designers to re-consider this intended design as it has the potential to be very, very detrimental to the game's long term prospects.

 

I agree with 90% of your post. Some of my disagreement is purely aesthetic. But this I strongly disagree with. Unless future designs revolve around a 1-2-1 tank-DPS-healer design, making 16-man where the "good" stuff happens will continue to relegate players to DPS since their raid guild only needs one tank and an occasional OT for every fight. Now, I agree, they probably shouldn't have published that, since now people will assume future 16-man content is "easier" than 8-man, but it's water under the bridge now.

You don't want the challenge for challenge's sake, you want exclusivity, where you can lord your items over someone who may not have the same time available, but is just as devoted to the game and their guild.

 

Having "something to show for it" could be anything from a cool speeder to a pet to a title.

 

You wanting a more substantial (read: stat increase) reward shows that you want to be more powerful than the next guy, instead of showcasing your skills with the gear that is available; that you were able to pull it off, while beginning on equal footing to someone else.

 

That sir, makes you reek of a bully with special snowflake syndrome.

 

Philosophically, you may be right, but the problem is with the paradigm RPGs are based on. This has been an issue since the days of Gary Gygax. People like to feel rewarded. Rewards with some positive effect in-game are more satisfying and also more immersive (A true Jedi wouldn't give too hoots what color the blade of his lightsaber was, it's immaterial) but by rewarding completion of objectives with "better gear" which is more rewarding for most players, you introduce a US v. Soviet-style gear race. Now, you have to design content around people who have the best loot, which often blocks out people who didn't get it. (And that's not always because they couldn't, sometimes people re-roll for perfectly valid reasons, etc.)

 

I wonder if a different color set of armor with identical stats would be equally enticing to folks. I somehow doubt it would be for the majority, but it's probably worth looking into.

I agree with 90% of your post. Some of my disagreement is purely aesthetic. But this I strongly disagree with. Unless future designs revolve around a 1-2-1 tank-DPS-healer design, making 16-man where the "good" stuff happens will continue to relegate players to DPS since their raid guild only needs one tank and an occasional OT for every fight. Now, I agree, they probably shouldn't have published that, since now people will assume future 16-man content is "easier" than 8-man, but it's water under the bridge now.

 

I don't know, I really think this is more down to raid design than an inherent difference between 16 man and 8 man content. Current raid design certainly forces you to bring in more dps than 8 man. The raid makeup remains proportionately very similar for most fights though. I think though that if duel spec were added to the game the developers would have more freedom to develop fights that use 4 or even more tanks or a higher than usual number of healers.

 

The difference is fairly negligible in any case. In the current tier of content the highest difficulty requires 1 tank for most 8 man content and 2 tanks for most 16 man content. I don't think either comes particularly close to the 1-2-1 balance you are looking for at least in terms of tank numbers.

A perfect example is in the fix to Soa which prevented the fight from resetting if the tank were to become trapped by a mind trap.

 

This bug is not fixed. I just ran EV on Normal and I was the Tank, got trapped in a Mind trap on the 3rd stage with SOA at 3% health and he reset.

You don't want the challenge for challenge's sake, you want exclusivity, where you can lord your items over someone who may not have the same time available, but is just as devoted to the game and their guild.

 

Having "something to show for it" could be anything from a cool speeder to a pet to a title.

 

You wanting a more substantial (read: stat increase) reward shows that you want to be more powerful than the next guy, instead of showcasing your skills with the gear that is available; that you were able to pull it off, while beginning on equal footing to someone else.

 

That sir, makes you reek of a bully with special snowflake syndrome.

 

This, news flash it's a game no one cares about your special snowflake syndrome, it won't help you with the girls.

This, news flash it's a game no one cares about your special snowflake syndrome, it won't help you with the girls.

 

I'd also like to add that even though I'm part of the demographic who could easily get that kind of content done, its nothing short of retar---- to want developers of a new game to spend time on 0.1% or less of the player base (its not even "you are the 1%!". At that point its a fraction of that).

 

When the game is bug free, there's 20+ raids available, and we're going crazy thinking what we'll do next because there's so much to do, then yeah, sure, spend time fine tuning content for the 50 or so people per server who want the devs to cater specifically to them. Until then, its a waste of resource. Its the kind of content that makes a great game into an amazing game. Not the kindda thing that will bring an average game like this one to good or great.

Very well put, sir. I think Bioware is off to a good start though and I'll use a brief example to show why that is the case. I have played in quite a few pen and paper games over the years and enjoyed some and hated others much like MMOs. There were certain aspects I liked about combat and others that I didn't and certain Dungeon masters that did it right and others that did everything wrong.

 

Awhile ago I took on the challenge of DMing my own game and creating a world and encouters from scratch. My first few games the combat was sub par. It had the creatures it did the things I liked about some of the other combats I played it, but what it lacked was experience. Something that you can only gain through doing and hearing feedback from the players. Eventually I got better and my players really enjoyed the challenge of the fights that were catered to them.

 

Basically what I am saying is your post is needed and hopefully Bioware reads it and takes it into account. We'll see how things improve in the 1.2 Operation. If they are static than it may be time to be worried, but even if only a small portion of your thoughts and others are added than we are off to a great start. That is the optimist in me though I suppose.

Just chiming in to say - very nice post, good balance of criticism and constructive feedback, hope BioWare actually takes note.

The game should not focus on hardcore raiders, that would only drive away the casual players, which are the real lifeblood of the game.

 

Yeah, the times of 24 hours plane of air raids with 80 + people are gone - and good riddance.

/agreed too all of it.

Well put.

The game should not focus on hardcore raiders, that would only drive away the casual players, which are the real lifeblood of the game.

 

Yeah, the times of 24 hours plane of air raids with 80 + people are gone - and good riddance.

 

You're carrying things to extremes. No one is asking for that kind of time-sink like a lot of EQ raids were. With that said we are looking to be challenged in these games and this is totally reasonable given that they have the difficulty system in place to accommodate this.

 

Nor am I or many of the others in this thread asking for this game to focus upon hardcore raiders - at least not more so than the casual player.

 

On a separate note thanks to others for a lot of the recent input. It makes me glad to see that I am far from the only person feeling this way about the current state of SW:TOR raiding.

+2 for complete truth, I as a semi-hard core raider and PvPer completley agree on every point you stated.

 

Lets hope Bioware actually read this thread and respond to their costumers reactions and thoughts about the game. That they take this opportunity to step into WoW's previous shoes as the biggest MMO, instead of just trying to make it a temporary profit.

 

The key to profit within MMO's is listening to the community, and this post pretty much sums the thought of thousands.

 

Yours sincerely

I agree with tje OP that the content is way too easy. My guild yesterday did the first normal mode. We got to Soa easily. Why? So normal is supposed to be easy. Well, its puggable. So ops are basically for Swtor what UBRS was to WoW.

 

I am an experienced mmo player, never really hardcore, but EV is a cake walk in normal.

 

When thinking about difficulty, i have to think about Guitar Hero III. You had all the same songs, but the jump from easy to middle to hard to pro was significant. With easy you just played once. With middle no more than twice. For hard you really had to train those solos, and for pro you had to train even more, sometimes not even succeeding, because you figured that this is above your abilities.

 

How did they do that? They started out with the hard content, then dumbed it down. This Is way easier than the other way around.

I just wanted to chime in, I agree with a lot of the OP's analysis. I am a member of a casual guild. I am a casual player. I have a wife and kids and a day job. I also enjoy the heck out of mmo's, and raiding. My guild raids 2 nights a week for for a total of 7 hours. We transferred over from that other MMO, where we were also a casual guild. We raided normal mode raids there, and found them challenging. It typically took us at least a month of raiding to down a full normal mode raid. Last night we downed all of EV on normal in an hour, and proceeded to one shot everything up to SOA on HARD mode. That is simply not challenging enough, even for a casual player.

 

It's about that carrot on a string, the best way to retain subs is to keep us chasing that carrot. Creating difficult content at end game with reward about equal to our risk keeps raiders, both hardcore and casual, chasing that carrot. Right now people, again both casual and hardcore, are catching and eating the carrot, that's not a good game design.

 

As a casual player, I completely agree with the above. I put in 2 nights a week of raiding, and I don't want to eat the carrot. Judging from the fact that we 1 shot this content on HM without really gearing up, I foresee us eating the carrot in the near future. My guild should NEVER be able to eat the carrot. We aren't trying to do that! It is important to us that there be a level of raiding that we simply cannot do. Even if we deluded ourselves into thinking we had the skills, just not the time, we still need to see that it takes other guilds 4 or 5 nights a week to down the hardest content. That fuels us, and renders our casual accomplishments all the more meaningful. Hard core end game raiding guilds are great for MMO's on the whole. Not for their epeen, but these guys make the news. Its great for exposure, and without that kind of commitment this MMO simply won't go anywhere. Its not farmville, its a hack and slash MMO that fits squarely into an established genre. While this genre caters to casual players, like me, it is important to have people playing the game that are better and more dedicated to it. Look at Blizz Con 2010 for instance, where top guild Paragon is lined up doing insane encounters. I want to see stuff like that. I play softball on Thursday nights, and I love watching Major League Baseball. I am not of a caliber sufficient to play there, but that display makes my beer league softball more enjoyable!

 

"Hardcore Raiding" shouldn't reward anything more than a feeling of accomplishment from getting the content itself done. Nothing Extra. There should not be any "Risk vs Reward" factor. You either do the raids on hard mode because you like to or you don't.

 

If your argument is that there is no incentive to do so, than the want for challenge in raiding is not enough to outweigh the lust for loot and exclusivity.

 

This argument just makes no sense to me. Again, this is an established genre. SWTOR is not some brand new game design. End game involves loot acquisition. Take a step back and look at it! PVP model: Warzones and Ilum reward loot and valor. You acquire more loot, you kill more of the opposite faction, you get more valor which opens a gateway to better loot. Time, effort and skill in, better loot out. Dailies, you grind out daily commendations which you can turn in for some epic armor mods. You can grind a ton of dailies, and get rakata implants/ears. Effort and time in, better loot out. This paradigm exists throughout the entire game, why in the heck would it not apply to PVE endgame!

 

In summation, I am a casual player who wants the existence of content which is simply too hard for me to do. This stuff is just too easy, plain and simple. And we play end game for loot. Harder content that takes more time deserves better loot.