nothing to add to the thread itself, but just wanna say I lul'd at the peter pan analogy. well played, OP. well played.

Thankee

I don't see a problem with staying 49 forever. AFAIK it's not breaking any rules. Some people already have multiple 50s (I have four) doing the gear grind, that they don't want--or have the time--for another. Some people might be staying 49 because they want to pvp with their lowbie friends, especially now that f2p is out.

 

There's also no difference between the gaps in the sub 50 and 50 brackets, except that the sub 50 bracket DOES NOT matter. BW isn't going to balance the game or change anything because of something that happens in sub 50 pvp. So I don't see why people are whining about this issue.

 

Also, skill has nothing to do with why people choose to stay 49. Bads are rampant all over, whether they're in fully aug WH gear, or 49 twinks.

Actually using game mechanics for an unintended result is against the rules.

And rationalizing inexcusable behavior because it imitates what is bad in level 50 pvp - well I don't think that is even addressable.

If it wasn't legitimate, they'd give xp for kills- I believe in WoW you get xp for caps and kills so that you cannot do this unless you join the twink queue (twinks do get a separate queue from normal players).

 

SWTOR only gives xp at the end- they could easily give everyone xp/comms as they get medals- say, give 5 comms, blank xp dependant on level, etc... for every medal when you get it- then give the bonus however many at the end of the game. That would prevent twinking, would also reward people who get d/ced or bugged out.

 

BW has decided simply to not do that though- making it legitimate to leave before the game's end- this has been possible since day one, sorry, but if they don't 'fix' something like this in a year, it's not what they consider to be an exploit.

Right. Keep telling yourself that. I say they loaded the xp at the end of the game - to keep people from quitting early. Only - it backfired.

We'll see. As this becomes more of an issue - what do you want to bet - it will be fixed.

Oi Seena, Leave Peter Pan out of this!!! lol

Awww come on... you know he'd be all over PvP ; )

Actually, unless they changed it with MoP, I haven't checked, you can pay 10g to turn off XP gain.

 

The big difference in WoW is that most of the true twinks I know were in twink guilds that PvP against other twink guilds in BGs, now Rated BGs. It is a complete playstyle where they spend countless hours farming for the best gear for their twink level and only enjoy PvPing against other twink guilds.

 

Most also have max level rated Arena teams. I know, my son was in a level 70 twink WoW guild for years. Most of this type player are very very good at PvP. My son for example was a multi-season Glad on various max level characters.

 

Recently he decided to level one of his twink toons to max by PvP. It is funny. He dominates even higher level characters so badly they accuse him of hacking.

Turning off xp - when I was a "twink" in WoW (mid 90s) was free as I recall. But I could be wrong.

Either way, it was definitely an optional part of an intended game mechanic.

Right. Keep telling yourself that.

 

We'll see. As this becomes more of an issue - what do you want to bet - it will be fixed.

Being an issue or not has zilch to do with whether BW will fix it. Very little of what BW has done in pvp since launch has been good ideas- so you're asking me to take a bet on a coin toss rather than what I think should or shouldn't happen.

Also- did you miss the part where I was talking about my level 25 sniper being what I'm usually playing in pvp? I'm not a twinker taking advantage of this system- I'm simply telling it like it is- this is not a big issue and what issue there is stems entirely from how people don't want to enter into the level 50 gear treadmill.

Some people want to play pvp for fun, not to grind endlessly- or they don't play more than a few hours a week and know they're never going to be viable at 50 simply due to gear- you really have such a big problem with people playing at a bracket they enjoy, when you yourself are saying they all suck anyway?

As I said- not a big problem.

Ultimately- you haven't provided anything to prove this is an exploit, and nothing to counter the fact that this has been here since day one, and BW has known about it since day 1, and it has an easy fix- yet they've done absolutely nothing. Maybe it's you who needs to keep telling yourself that this is an exploit.

Being an issue or not has zilch to do with whether BW will fix it. Very little of what BW has done in pvp since launch has been good ideas- so you're asking me to take a bet on a coin toss rather than what I think should or shouldn't happen.

 

Also- did you miss the part where I was talking about my level 25 sniper being what I'm usually playing in pvp? I'm not a twinker taking advantage of this system- I'm simply telling it like it is- this is not a big issue and what issue there is stems entirely from how people don't want to enter into the level 50 gear treadmill.

 

Some people want to play pvp for fun, not to grind endlessly- or they don't play more than a few hours a week and know they're never going to be viable at 50 simply due to gear- you really have such a big problem with people playing at a bracket they enjoy, when you yourself are saying they all suck anyway?

 

As I said- not a big problem.

Not a big problem - to you. But then you think it's an intended game mechanic. LOL

Please feel free to pursue what *you* feel is important; I will exercise the same right.

Oh and dearie - I never said anyone "sucked". Wasn't me. But then I don't expect you to understand too much of anything you read - you're too busy trying to legitimize your pvp over other's.

If it wasn't legitimate, they'd give xp for kills- I believe in WoW you get xp for caps and kills so that you cannot do this unless you join the twink queue (twinks do get a separate queue from normal players).

 

SWTOR only gives xp at the end- they could easily give everyone xp/comms as they get medals- say, give 5 comms, blank xp dependant on level, etc... for every medal when you get it- then give the bonus however many at the end of the game. That would prevent twinking, would also reward people who get d/ced or bugged out.

 

BW has decided simply to not do that though- making it legitimate to leave before the game's end- this has been possible since day one, sorry, but if they don't 'fix' something like this in a year, it's not what they consider to be an exploit.

Yes, they designed it so you could quit a war zone prematurely on purpose and avoid XP...

Clearly not an over sight... BW thinks of everything ahead of time since they have so much MMO experience

I really think you just like to argue... I bet if I pull up your comment history it's just you trying to convice people they're wrong over and over again. I'd bet the only thrads you agree on is nerf marauder threads.

I'd like to know what server you're on... so I can roll a 49 twink marauder and another to 50 just so I can troll you as much as possible.

Yes, they designed it so you could quit a war zone prematurely on purpose and avoid XP...

 

Clearly not an over sight... BW thinks of everything ahead of time since they have so much MMO experience

 

I really think you just like to argue... I bet if I pull up your comment history it's just you trying to convice people they're wrong over and over again. I'd bet the only thrads you agree on is nerf marauder threads.

 

I'd like to know what server you're on... so I can roll a 49 twink marauder and another to 50 just so I can troll you as much as possible.

Ebon Hawk- why not roll a sorc though, since they're just as balanced as marauders? Please, be my guest. I'm sure you will dominate- no really, I'm not even joking.

I would say I'm beginning to think you just like to gloat about how buffed up marauders are and how awesome you are because of it- but I've known that for months.

If you must know- a vast majority of my comments are actually on things that can be done to balance out what sorcs and mercs lost in 1.2- threads that naturally become immediately full of fine upstanding gentlemen like you telling us 'you are wrong, I do not play your class but your class is already perfect so l2p'. In fact, I bet if we were to look at all the posts trying to talk BW away from buffing underperforming classes- almost all would be from primary marauder players.

Furthermore- read through the thread, you'll find most of the people agree with me that this is not an issue and doesn't make much of a difference.

Ebon Hawk- why not roll a sorc though, since they're just as balanced as marauders? Please, be my guest. I'm sure you will dominate- no really, I'm not even joking.

 

I would say I'm beginning to think you just like to gloat about how buffed up marauders are and how awesome you are because of it- but I've known that for months.

 

If you must know- a vast majority of my comments are actually on things that can be done to balance out what sorcs and mercs lost in 1.2- threads that naturally become immediately full of fine upstanding gentlemen like you telling us 'you are wrong, I do not play your class but your class is already perfect so l2p'. In fact, I bet if we were to look at all the posts trying to talk BW away from buffing underperforming classes- almost all would be from primary marauder players.

 

Furthermore- read through the thread, you'll find most of the people agree with me that this is not an issue and doesn't make much of a difference.

The vast majority of your comments are "nerf marauders" and I've seen few people agree with you except for the same 4 guys that jump in every nerf marauder thread with you.

BTW... I own most marauders with my sorc.

The vast majority of your comments are "nerf marauders" and I've seen few people agree with you except for the same 4 guys that jump in every nerf marauder thread with you.

 

BTW... I own most marauders with my sorc.

I was hard pressed to see "most people agreeing with him" . I see him agreeing with him - and a few other posts.

In fact two people from EH (myself and another) vs his one noted this is an issue.

Not that number of posts agreeing means anything since those who are using this exploit will argue hard and fast to keep it - while those who haven't been affected (yet) are unlikely to post anything.

Time will tell whether this is fixed. One thing is certain - if it isn't brought to anyone's attention - it won't be.

The vast majority of your comments are "nerf marauders" and I've seen few people agree with you except for the same 4 guys that jump in every nerf marauder thread with you.

 

BTW... I own most marauders with my sorc.

Then bring it, because 1v1 I dominate sorcs on my marauder. Doesn't seem like it's any different for your pro-marauder buddies, so what's your point? I don't see you making too many posts that aren't pro-marauder either.

Outside that- we're disagreeing on something that has nothing to do with marauders right here- twinks, and we're disagreeing elsewhere on gear to win vs no gear advantages. I don't disagree with you just to argue- I disagree because I think it's clear we fundamentally disagree on almost everything. It's not like you share my opinions on other classes either.

Trust me on this though- I'm far less interested on getting marauders nerfs than I am on getting sorcs and mercs improved- and if we did get a substantial buff to those classes, I probably would lose interest in the marauder arguments altogether. Marauders are simply an easy target because you've spent the last six months chain insulting everyone who disagrees with you- if there were a bunch of sins coming into every balance thread I made saying 'you are a scrub, learn to play, get good, etc....' maybe I'd be looking at them- they for some reason weren't looking for a fight on the scale marauders were.

I was hard pressed to see "most people agreeing with him" . I see him agreeing with him - and a few other posts.

 

In fact two people from EH (myself and another) vs his one noted this is an issue.

 

Not that number of posts agreeing means anything since those who are using this exploit will argue hard and fast to keep it - while those who haven't been affected (yet) are unlikely to post anything.

 

Time will tell whether this is fixed. One thing is certain - if it isn't brought to anyone's attention - it won't be.

LOL... that's how I saw it too... maybe he counts himself for each reply since he's the loudest one in here.

Unfortunately the only thing I think I remember him saying that I do agree with... is that it's not going to be fixed any time soon. It's a pretty minor issue in comparison to others and happens so little that it's far from game breaking. I would assume that will get worse over time but I doubt it's very high on the priority list even though it's slowly becoming more popular.

I would expect it to get resolved at some point though.

Keep telling yourself that to make yourself feel better. In all mmo games, the ruleset is the determining factor of where the pvp guilds will go. PvP guilds don't go to pve servers even on a PvE based game like swtor. So most pvpers will go to pvp servers even if it is just a title.

 

But this is swtor. Most pvp guilds and any decent competitive pvper left already and went to some other game.

I tell you that because it's true, not to evoke any manner of pathos.

Trust me on this though- I'm far less interested on getting marauders nerfs than I am on getting sorcs and mercs improved.

So far out of 20 or so of your posts... this is the second sentence that you've typed that I think makes sense.

Sorcs only need burst IMO... mercs need a lot of defense.

But anyways... twinks are sad lonely creatures. Jump on my stream and I'll argue with you for hours.

LOL... that's how I saw it too... maybe he counts himself for each reply since he's the loudest one in here.

 

Unfortunately the only thing I think I remember him saying that I do agree with... is that it's not going to be fixed any time soon. It's a pretty minor issue in comparison to others and happens so little that it's far from game breaking. I would assume that will get worse over time but I doubt it's very high on the priority list even though it's slowly becoming more popular.

 

I would expect it to get resolved at some point though.

Oh I can see that it's not top priority. What's so interesting to me tho - is, like I said, I didn't realize it was even possible. I've been playing solidly since pre-launch. I have a War Hero Vanguard and have full valor to level on prolly 17 toons. I'm on a shadow now - level 45 and I PvP pretty regularly. I was asked to craft an earpiece for one of these twinks about a week ago - and I couldn't understand why anyone would go through the effort (it is ENTIRELY an ego thing no matter what anyone says.). Since then I've seen people giving up at the start of warzones, complaining they can't win against these people --- and noted people leaving Huttball games early - leaving us down a man when there's a tied score. More than once. So, I definitely think it's becoming more common - and that it will continue to do so.

I wish there was a true exp off button so I could sit at 49. The pvp is much better at the 1-49 range then it ever has been at 50. The gear can only get so good at this range...48-49 purples are good but not great. An all purpled out level 49 match would be as close to pure fun for pvp in this game as you could get. Imagine pvping without the stupid resolve stat...glorious.

You mean - expertise stat? -- And I agree. It's funny - pre launch they made it sounds like the PvP was intended to be less gear centric..... Go figure. The exact opposite to the 100th degree has happened.

So far out of 20 or so of your posts... this is the second sentence that you've typed that I think makes sense.

 

Sorcs only need burst IMO... mercs need a lot of defense.

 

But anyways... twinks are sad lonely creatures. Jump on my stream and I'll argue with you for hours.

I don't disagree with twinking being a sad thing- but at the same time I understand it because level 50 isn't much better. Also- twinks are not at near as much of an advantage in this game as they are in WoW- where you'll see twinks with three times the health and damage of other players in that bracket.

I wouldn't mind seeing twinking go either- I am merely saying that I take no issue with it and consider it a minor issue- which you disagree with and that's fine.

Sorcs need more than just burst- that's just what they need most- but, that's a topic for elsewhere.

Of I can see that it's not top priority. What's so interesting to me tho - is, like I said, I didn't realize it was even possible. I've been playing solidly since pre-launch. I have a War Hero Vanguard and have full valor to level on prolly 17 toons. I'm on a shadow now - level 45 and I PvP pretty regularly. I was asked to craft an earpiece for one of these twinks about a week ago - and I couldn't understand why anyone would go through the effort (it is ENTIRELY an ego thing no matter what anyone says.). Since then I've seen people giving up at the start of warzones, complaining they can't win against these people --- and noted people leaving Huttball games early - leaving us down a man when there's a tied score. More than once. So, I definitely think it's becoming more common - and that it will continue to do so.

Yeah... I think it's slowly gaining popularity. I only started noticiing it a few months ago and I'm slowly seeing more and more of them. I agree on the ego thing. Like I said before... most of them are not very good. So my theory is that they're looking for the biggest advantage possible and on top of that it's not nearly as difficult to twink a level 49 as it is to min/max a 50.

Not only that but they gain advantages over most players simply on abilites and on top of that being heavily gear in a bracket where nearly no one is well geared. In short, it's mediocre players stroking their egos to feel dominant somewhere because they aren't good enough to dominate anywhere else.

I don't disagree with twinking being a sad thing- but at the same time I understand it because level 50 isn't much better. Also- twinks are not at near as much of an advantage in this game as they are in WoW- where you'll see twinks with three times the health and damage of other players in that bracket.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing twinking go either- I am merely saying that I take no issue with it and consider it a minor issue- which you disagree with and that's fine.

 

Sorcs need more than just burst- that's just what they need most- but, that's a topic for elsewhere.

Doesn't WoW have brackets for twinks? I thought I heard that somewhere...

And I wouldn't be opposed to twinking if it was designed that way... however... this game is not and won't be with the populations. There simply isn't room for it.

You mean - expertise stat? -- And I agree. It's funny - pre launch they made it sounds like the PvP was intended to be less gear centric..... Go figure. The exact opposite to the 100th degree has happened.

Beta pvp was amazing. Pvp now is probably the least fun it has been,and yes it is expertise in this game but the idea was taken from somewhere else.

Doesn't WoW have brackets for twinks? I thought I heard that somewhere...

 

And I wouldn't be opposed to twinking if it was designed that way... however... this game is not and won't be with the populations. There simply isn't room for it.

It does now- it didn't for the first few years though.

Generally- the opinion is that you twink because you don't want to/don't have the time for the gear tread mill- and while I know we'll argue about whether or not this game's pvp gear takes too long or not- at the least it's clear many players are not geared up when they pvp and don't want to go through it.

So, they twink. In this game- the gear differences aren't so big though that a twink is an untouchable god (which in WoW they were- you have 400 health, that twink rogue has 1800 health and can backstab you for 500 damage- pretty obvious what happens).

This game- I don't agree with twinks, but I sympathize with their wanting to avoid what awaits them at level 50 with the gear grinding you gotta do.

Frankly, I would rather have gear disparities looked at first- because if people start to think 'oh, well, it isn't that bad even if I don't have top gear' at 50, twinking will at least lose some of it's appeal...

Of course- there's also people who twink solely for easy pvp, nothing can change that until they stop giving xp/comms at the end of the match only.

Doesn't WoW have brackets for twinks? I thought I heard that somewhere...

 

And I wouldn't be opposed to twinking if it was designed that way... however... this game is not and won't be with the populations. There simply isn't room for it.

WoW had (when I played it - and was a "twink") a built in game mechanic that you could turn off xp. The warzones were divided into levels and people would turn off the xp when they go to the upper end of the level for the bracket.

I don't recall paying any fee (in game gold) to do this - but this is apparently the case now as mentioned by another poster.

Not even close to the same thing - especially since in WoW there were several level brackets - not 2 divisions as in SWTOR. Comparing the two is ludicrous.

Oh and opbviously - again, it was an intended game mechanic in WoW

These are the new brackets for WoW. So a level 10 isn't facing a level 49 twink.

10-14 30-34 50-54 70-74

15-19 35-39 55-59 75-79

20-24 40-44 60-64 80-84

25-29 45-49 65-69 85